[gui-talk] anyone but the blind can win on GSN so What do we do about it.
Kenlawrence124 at aol.com
Kenlawrence124 at aol.com
Thu Dec 3 18:42:55 UTC 2009
Hi Mike well since the site is a website for a cable channel, it seems to
me that that's how they make money or at least prt of it. you exchange the
points for prises on the channel also there is a shop link there. What if
that's not accessible too? you Can't chat either and all of the
interactive games that go with the programs on the channel accept GSN live can't be
played. Since I'm over 21 and all of the shows play alongs require
internet access now that the GSN Radio has been discontinued, should I therefore
discontinue my account, should I not watch this channel? that shouldn't be
an option. there is only one GSN cable channel and I'm a supporter of it.
So what is my participation in the so called GSN community worth to them
do you think? do you think they don't value a viewer's participation blind
or other wise?
I pledge to participate actively in the efforts of the national federation
of the blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security for the blind;
to support the policies and programs of the federation; and abide by it's
constitution.
In a message dated 12/3/2009 1:02:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
gui-talk-request at nfbnet.org writes:
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Today's Topics:
1. anyone but the blind can win on GSN, What do we do about it?
(Kenlawrence124 at aol.com)
2. Which companies shoud I contact? (James Pepper)
3. Re: anyone but the blind can win on GSN, What do we do about
it? (Mike Freeman)
4. Re: Which companies shoud I contact? (qubit)
5. Re: Which companies shoud I contact? (James Pepper)
6. Re: Which companies should I contact? (Steve Jacobson)
7. Re: Which companies should I contact? (Doug Lee)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:04:06 EST
From: Kenlawrence124 at aol.com
Subject: [gui-talk] anyone but the blind can win on GSN, What do we do
about it?
To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org
Cc: perform-talk at nfbnet.org
Message-ID: <ca2.5e68a5cb.38483e56 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hello, sending this to performing arts and Gui-talk because it's a related
issue to CD baby. I'm a player or at least want to be a player on the
Game
show network site. unfortunately none of the games, including the Bingo
blitz drawing, the wonder wheel, and not even the chat room is accessible
to
the blind. This means I can only win on the televised GSN live rap
arounds between shows betweenthe hours of 3:00 and 6:00 eastern time. I
have an
account and want to play those games and maybe today win $13,000 like
sighted people in the bingo blitz drawing. All of the GSN content
including the
chat is Flash. I can only win the rewards points called Oodles about 50
at a time and to cash in oodles for all of the prizes you need thousands
of
oodles. only for the daily or weekly or monthly drawings can I even have
half a chance to win. I don't want to say Don't watch GSN, because that
only passes the problem on to someone else. They wouldn't make the sight
accesible if blind weren't watching, and GSN is one of the few really
family
viewing options left on TV. So the question is how to make it known that
blind people want access now, not tomorrow or next month or next year or
years
from now that will show that there are many of us who like our sighted
friends watch and play along with game shows and there is only equality
if we
have the same opportunity to win as sighted people. I've given GSN the
federation Tech center and no movement at this time. So my friends short
of
deleting my account and opting out which is not an option, what should we
do
that will make blind winners along with sighted. any thoughts or ideas
how we should proceed in a way that lets them know we're fans and viewers
too
would be a big help. Thanks, let's achieve opportunity and equality for
the blind together.
I pledge to participate actively in the efforts of the national
federation
of the blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security for the
blind;
to support the policies and programs of the federation; and abide by it's
constitution.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:27:46 -0600
From: James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com>
Subject: [gui-talk] Which companies shoud I contact?
To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org
Message-ID:
<fe5b78280912021927q53fa9ev299c54470605905a at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I am James Pepper and I have been coming into this list for a while and I
developed a means of making PDF documents, forms and interactive content
accessible to the blind, the visually impaired and everyone else. It works
with the default settings of Adobe Reader and it was tested by AFB Tech,
the
technology division of the American Foundation for the Blind and they
called
it a "Raising the Floor" technology. So I wanted to see who here knows of
which companies I should approach to try to get this out there on the
market.
It is a means of making the graphic user interface accessible to the blind
so I thought this was the perfect place to ask this question.
My format enables simple text to speech engines to work as effectively as
JAWS or Window Eyes in reading PDF documents where all of the content can
be
read and you can interact with the document, My format works with JAWS,
Window Eyes and Zoom Text and is backwards compatible, so that the blind do
not have to buy new programs to read and interact with content, they can
use
their existing screen readers. I used JAWS 8 to test it. I thought that
since most people cannot afford these programs that it would be of help.
I was blind, I had progressively worsening tunnel vision in High School and
College and then one day most of it came back. So I looked at the software
that people use to make content accessible to the blind and I fixed it, so
it actually works. Practical accessibility where you can actually read and
interact with all of the content.
Last year, I made the National Voter Registration form to be accessible to
the blind using conventional techniques, not my new process, and this form
was tested by the Jernigan Institute of the National Federation of the
Blind, by AFB Tech, and Jim Dickson the Vice President of the American
Association of People with Disabilities presented these forms to the
Elections Assistance Commission which is in charge of accessible voting in
the US. But of course they decided to use the forms made by their
webmaster.
I can do this in multiple languages including Spanish and the languages
used
in DAISY format all over the world.
So I was wanting to know which Accessible Technology companies should I
approach?
Sincerely,
James G. Pepper
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:47:53 -0800
From: Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com>
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] anyone but the blind can win on GSN, What do
we do about it?
To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org
Message-ID: <20091203034753.k7uij at panix.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
I'd be willing to speculate that you have to be over eighteen to play
also. Isn't that discriminatory? In other words, I doubt very much that ADA
covers this situation as I've never seen games defined as places of public
accommodation or commerce though I could, of course, be wrong.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: unknown Kenlawrence124 at aol.com
To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org
Date: Wednesday, Dec 2, 2009 15:26:08
Subject: [gui-talk] anyone but the blind can win on GSN, What do we do
about it?
>
>
> Hello, sending this to performing arts and Gui-talk because it's a
related
> issue to CD baby. I'm a player or at least want to be a player on the
Game
> show network site. unfortunately none of the games, including the
Bingo
> blitz drawing, the wonder wheel, and not even the chat room is
accessible to
> the blind. This means I can only win on the televised GSN live rap
> arounds between shows betthe hours of 3:00 and 6:00 eastern time. I
have an
> account and want to play those games and maybe today win $13,000 like
> sighted people in the bingo blitz drawing. All of the GSN content
including the
> chat is Flash. I can only win the rewards points called Oodles about
50
> at a time and to cash in oodles for all of the prizes you need
thousands of
> oodles. only for the daily or weekly or monthly drawings can I even
have
> half a chance to win. I don't want to say Don't watch GSN, because that
> only passes the problem on to someone else. They wouldn't make the
sight
> accesible if blind weren't watching, and GSN is one of the few really
family
> viewing options left on TV. So the question is how to make it known
that
> blind people want access now, not tomorrow or next month or next year or
years
> from now that will show that there are many of us who like our sighted
> friends watch and play along with game shows and there is only equality
if we
> have the same opportunity to win as sighted people. I've given GSN the
> federation Tech center and no movement at this time. So my friends
short of
> deleting my account and opting out which is not an option, what should
we do
> that will make blind winners along with sighted. any thoughts or ideas
> how we should proceed in a way that lets them know we're fans and
viewers too
> would be a big help. Thanks, let's achieve opportunity and equality
for
> the blind together.
>
> I pledge to participate actively in the efforts of the national
federation
> of the blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security for the
blind;
> to support the policies and programs of the federation; and abide by
it's
> constitution.
> _______________________________________________
> gui-talk mailing list
> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
gui-talk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 23:23:08 -0600
From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Which companies shoud I contact?
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <9C783147639C44409A19E14BD5C11B9D at bassclef>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
what type of company do you want to work with? Freedom Scientific and GW
Micro produce the jaws and window eyes screen readers. There are also
scan-and-read programs K1000 and OpenBook that have the ability to do OCR
on
pdf and other documents scanned from a printed page and then read the text.
What is it you want to accomplish? What a laugh it would be if you got
rejected by all the current big wigs and started your own company and it
took off.
I am a computer science grad and therefore am interested in the approach
you
take. Aren't you the same person who posted once before with a way of
marking up pdf documents?
Sounds like your system purports to solve all the world's problems, which
may or may not be possible--which seems likely as the problems have been
worked on for decades and no one else has a simple solution.
If you got together with an access company, perhaps you could see some of
the problems they are dealing with.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:27 PM
Subject: [gui-talk] Which companies shoud I contact?
I am James Pepper and I have been coming into this list for a while and I
developed a means of making PDF documents, forms and interactive content
accessible to the blind, the visually impaired and everyone else. It works
with the default settings of Adobe Reader and it was tested by AFB Tech,
the
technology division of the American Foundation for the Blind and they
called
it a "Raising the Floor" technology. So I wanted to see who here knows of
which companies I should approach to try to get this out there on the
market.
It is a means of making the graphic user interface accessible to the blind
so I thought this was the perfect place to ask this question.
My format enables simple text to speech engines to work as effectively as
JAWS or Window Eyes in reading PDF documents where all of the content can
be
read and you can interact with the document, My format works with JAWS,
Window Eyes and Zoom Text and is backwards compatible, so that the blind do
not have to buy new programs to read and interact with content, they can
use
their existing screen readers. I used JAWS 8 to test it. I thought that
since most people cannot afford these programs that it would be of help.
I was blind, I had progressively worsening tunnel vision in High School and
College and then one day most of it came back. So I looked at the software
that people use to make content accessible to the blind and I fixed it, so
it actually works. Practical accessibility where you can actually read and
interact with all of the content.
Last year, I made the National Voter Registration form to be accessible to
the blind using conventional techniques, not my new process, and this form
was tested by the Jernigan Institute of the National Federation of the
Blind, by AFB Tech, and Jim Dickson the Vice President of the American
Association of People with Disabilities presented these forms to the
Elections Assistance Commission which is in charge of accessible voting in
the US. But of course they decided to use the forms made by their
webmaster.
I can do this in multiple languages including Spanish and the languages
used
in DAISY format all over the world.
So I was wanting to know which Accessible Technology companies should I
approach?
Sincerely,
James G. Pepper
_______________________________________________
gui-talk mailing list
gui-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
gui-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo
.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 02:53:11 -0600
From: James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Which companies shoud I contact?
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID:
<fe5b78280912030053u68ba375cx6be16c01116b1192 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Yes that was me, I can format Acrobat for accessibility better than what
Adobe teaches!
Well right now I have a page layout program that makes PDF files that are
accessible to the most basic screen readers. It also can make content for
print in full color so it can be used to layout books. I am not sure that
JAWS and GW Micro would be thrilled at the idea of my promoting free text
to
speech engines. Of course in the short run they will still command more
features, but this will eat into their market. My process does make them
work better with PDF format.
I will look into K1000 and OpenBook but my format is more of a page layout
program where you make content once for everyone.
This is not a matter of converting the content to an accessible format, the
format is inherently accessible.
So I have contacted Adobe already but I was wondering who else out there is
a competitor to Adobe? Who do I contact? Trying to find the connections.
The the basic fundamental process is a cross platform type of thing and so
I
wanted to try to get it embedded in word processors so that ordinary people
could make content and not know they are making it accessible. Because
right now we are all relying on people knowing how to do this properly and
they are very few in number but if everyone could make accessible content
that is intended to be accessible from the beginning then we can fix this
problem.
I think I've got it!
Does anyone know the accessibility people at Apple?
I laid out the format to work in a lot of languages, more than the present
crop of screen readers support because it works using the text to speech
engines which are being created for the DAISY format. So I have been doing
a lot of work with Unicode time and date formats with this just to make it
capable of working around the world. For instance in Hindi and other
langauges of India. Of course most of these languages do not have a screen
reader yet, but I thought that by demonstrating that this can be done, that
it would give people an incentive to try! I am not limited by language in
this format. And I know how to use screen readers for languages that do
not
have screen readers yet! And of course this means that this can reach the
illiterate all over the world. so that is why I laid it out in so many
languages.
Just looking for some advice.
James Pepper
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 09:34:31 -0600
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Which companies should I contact?
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <auto-000017247712 at mailback2.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jim,
If I understand your product from what you say here and what you have said
on other lists, I believe you are correct that the screen reader
developers are not your
best place to go. Having said that, though, I also don't see where you
are really likely to cut into their business unless I misunderstand your
product. If one used
one's computer primarily for reading documents, I could see that it might,
but unless your product is envisioned as part of all computer software, it
isn't going to
eliminate the need for screen readers or even substantially decrease the
need as I see it. We use screen readers to interact with word processors to
modify and
create documents, we interact with spreadsheets, we we read and create
e-mail, we use spell checkers, we edit audio and rip CD's, we maintain our
computers
copying, moving and deleting files and running other utilities, and we use
our computers as terminals on other computers. Therefore, I do not see
what you have to
gain
by saying you will cut into the business of screen readers, when, as far
as I can see, what you are proposing will make the job of screen readers
easier. In some
cases, some of us may use Adobe's text-to-speech reading capability
instead of our screen readers, but in most cases we are able to control the flow
of information
better
with screen readers and there is better interfacing to more voices and
braille displays. This has little to do with the accessibility of a document,
so I just don't see a
conflict there between your product and screen readers.
from what I thought I understood about your process, it needs to be
integrated into the document creation process working more or less behind the
scenes to imbed
the structure needed for documents to be accessible. If that is at all
accurate, then contacting the creators of document software such as Microsoft
and whatever
publishers tend to use would seem like the place to go. If your product
does not need to be part of the creation process but can convert documents,
that would
widen your options greatly, and it might be a product that could be
included in something like Kurzweil 1000 or perhaps even be sold with screen
readers. Also
remember that Freedom Scientific, the makers of JFW, has the Open Book
product which is a compettitor to Kurzweil. Remember further that Freedom
Scientific, GW Micro, and Humanware all sell note-taking devices and other
players that have the built-in capability of playing various kinds of text
files. None of
these companies are strictly screen reading companies. Nuance, which
makes OmniPage OCR software also converts PDF documents into other formats such
as
Microsoft Word and RTF. There might be a role for your technology there.
Again, though, my understanding is that your process is intended to work
at document
creation time which means that none of our access technology companies are
going to be in a position to make use of your product in the way that you
have
described elsewhere, and since the processes used by Nuance are guessing
at the intended purpose of format from appearance, it probably doesn't fit
there, either.
I hope this is of some help. I think looking at where to focus the
implementation of your product is a good idea, as you are doing here.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 02:53:11 -0600, James Pepper wrote:
>Yes that was me, I can format Acrobat for accessibility better than what
>Adobe teaches!
>Well right now I have a page layout program that makes PDF files that are
>accessible to the most basic screen readers. It also can make content for
>print in full color so it can be used to layout books. I am not sure that
>JAWS and GW Micro would be thrilled at the idea of my promoting free text
to
>speech engines. Of course in the short run they will still command more
>features, but this will eat into their market. My process does make them
>work better with PDF format.
>I will look into K1000 and OpenBook but my format is more of a page layout
>program where you make content once for everyone.
>This is not a matter of converting the content to an accessible format,
the
>format is inherently accessible.
>So I have contacted Adobe already but I was wondering who else out there
is
>a competitor to Adobe? Who do I contact? Trying to find the connections.
>The the basic fundamental process is a cross platform type of thing and
so I
>wanted to try to get it embedded in word processors so that ordinary
people
>could make content and not know they are making it accessible. Because
>right now we are all relying on people knowing how to do this properly and
>they are very few in number but if everyone could make accessible content
>that is intended to be accessible from the beginning then we can fix this
>problem.
>I think I've got it!
>Does anyone know the accessibility people at Apple?
>I laid out the format to work in a lot of languages, more than the present
>crop of screen readers support because it works using the text to speech
>engines which are being created for the DAISY format. So I have been
doing
>a lot of work with Unicode time and date formats with this just to make
it
>capable of working around the world. For instance in Hindi and other
>langauges of India. Of course most of these languages do not have a
screen
>reader yet, but I thought that by demonstrating that this can be done,
that
>it would give people an incentive to try! I am not limited by language in
>this format. And I know how to use screen readers for languages that do
not
>have screen readers yet! And of course this means that this can reach the
>illiterate all over the world. so that is why I laid it out in so many
>languages.
>Just looking for some advice.
>James Pepper
>_______________________________________________
>gui-talk mailing list
>gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
gui-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40
visi.com
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 11:27:16 -0500
From: Doug Lee <dgl at dlee.org>
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Which companies should I contact?
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <20091203162715.GS187 at mini.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Actually, if I remember right, you recently announced that you had
patented this process. Although patents are often not the easiest
things to read, it might help us to get a patent number so we can get
a better understanding of what your process is. As I understand
things, once something is patented, it is protected by the patent and
becomes public information, as opposed to a trade secret, which tends
to be hidden.
On Thu, Dec 03, 2009 at 09:34:31AM -0600, Steve Jacobson wrote:
Jim,
If I understand your product from what you say here and what you have said
on other lists, I believe you are correct that the screen reader
developers are not your
best place to go. Having said that, though, I also don't see where you
are really likely to cut into their business unless I misunderstand your
product. If one used
one's computer primarily for reading documents, I could see that it might,
but unless your product is envisioned as part of all computer software, it
isn't going to
eliminate the need for screen readers or even substantially decrease the
need as I see it. We use screen readers to interact with word processors to
modify and
create documents, we interact with spreadsheets, we we read and create
e-mail, we use spell checkers, we edit audio and rip CD's, we maintain our
computers
copying, moving and deleting files and running other utilities, and we use
our computers as terminals on other computers. Therefore, I do not see
what you have to
gain
by saying you will cut into the business of screen readers, when, as far
as I can see, what you are proposing will make the job of screen readers
easier. In some
cases, some of us may use Adobe's text-to-speech reading capability
instead of our screen readers, but in most cases we are able to control the flow
of information
better
with screen readers and there is better interfacing to more voices and
braille displays. This has little to do with the accessibility of a document,
so I just don't see a
conflict there between your product and screen readers.
from what I thought I understood about your process, it needs to be
integrated into the document creation process working more or less behind the
scenes to imbed
the structure needed for documents to be accessible. If that is at all
accurate, then contacting the creators of document software such as Microsoft
and whatever
publishers tend to use would seem like the place to go. If your product
does not need to be part of the creation process but can convert documents,
that would
widen your options greatly, and it might be a product that could be
included in something like Kurzweil 1000 or perhaps even be sold with screen
readers. Also
remember that Freedom Scientific, the makers of JFW, has the Open Book
product which is a compettitor to Kurzweil. Remember further that Freedom
Scientific, GW Micro, and Humanware all sell note-taking devices and other
players that have the built-in capability of playing various kinds of text
files. None of
these companies are strictly screen reading companies. Nuance, which
makes OmniPage OCR software also converts PDF documents into other formats such
as
Microsoft Word and RTF. There might be a role for your technology there.
Again, though, my understanding is that your process is intended to work
at document
creation time which means that none of our access technology companies are
going to be in a position to make use of your product in the way that you
have
described elsewhere, and since the processes used by Nuance are guessing
at the intended purpose of format from appearance, it probably doesn't fit
there, either.
I hope this is of some help. I think looking at where to focus the
implementation of your product is a good idea, as you are doing here.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 02:53:11 -0600, James Pepper wrote:
>Yes that was me, I can format Acrobat for accessibility better than what
>Adobe teaches!
>Well right now I have a page layout program that makes PDF files that are
>accessible to the most basic screen readers. It also can make content for
>print in full color so it can be used to layout books. I am not sure that
>JAWS and GW Micro would be thrilled at the idea of my promoting free text
to
>speech engines. Of course in the short run they will still command more
>features, but this will eat into their market. My process does make them
>work better with PDF format.
>I will look into K1000 and OpenBook but my format is more of a page layout
>program where you make content once for everyone.
>This is not a matter of converting the content to an accessible format,
the
>format is inherently accessible.
>So I have contacted Adobe already but I was wondering who else out there
is
>a competitor to Adobe? Who do I contact? Trying to find the connections.
>The the basic fundamental process is a cross platform type of thing and
so I
>wanted to try to get it embedded in word processors so that ordinary
people
>could make content and not know they are making it accessible. Because
>right now we are all relying on people knowing how to do this properly and
>they are very few in number but if everyone could make accessible content
>that is intended to be accessible from the beginning then we can fix this
>problem.
>I think I've got it!
>Does anyone know the accessibility people at Apple?
>I laid out the format to work in a lot of languages, more than the present
>crop of screen readers support because it works using the text to speech
>engines which are being created for the DAISY format. So I have been
doing
>a lot of work with Unicode time and date formats with this just to make
it
>capable of working around the world. For instance in Hindi and other
>langauges of India. Of course most of these languages do not have a
screen
>reader yet, but I thought that by demonstrating that this can be done,
that
>it would give people an incentive to try! I am not limited by language in
>this format. And I know how to use screen readers for languages that do
not
>have screen readers yet! And of course this means that this can reach the
>illiterate all over the world. so that is why I laid it out in so many
>languages.
>Just looking for some advice.
>James Pepper
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--
Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
SSB BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
"Believe, when you are most unhappy, that there is something for you
to do in the world. So long as you can sweeten another's pain, life is
not in vain." --Helen Keller
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