[gui-talk] Fwd: Captchakiller.com
Sherri
flmom2006 at gmail.com
Mon Mar 10 14:25:21 CDT 2008
No, I didn't take offense as to what you said. I basically agree with you.
*smile.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Deutsch" <jdeutsch at dslextreme.com>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Captchakiller.com
Hi Sherry,
I hope this isn't in response to what I wrote. I wasn't taking exception to
anything you said (I figured that your sighted reader crew to whom you
referred were family, not paid helpers across town who went to bed earlier
than you do otherwise they'd have driven over to help you read something). I
wasn't making a statement about policy at all. I was in fact describing one
individual's personal *feelings,* not political position, on the issue of
needing or not needing assistance. As I said, I wrote it hoping it would be
of interest to anyone who may have pondered these matters but never heard
anyone express themselves about them. That's all. So don't worry about me.
As I said, I got that you must be referring to your family, and I smiled
appropriately to read about the disparities between their time of retiring
for the night and your more night-owl schedule. It's all fine. And I for one
think it's just as well that your offhand remark inspired a little bit of
discussion about the underlying issue of what to do about needing assistance
or not needing or wanting it. I think that's a healthy exchange to have, any
old time. If you're on other blind tech support lists, you may be gratefully
aware that there's a huge difference between that short back and forth and
the kinds of flame wars that can erupt on some of those lists, who shall
remain unnamed. No problem here that I can see. Just a friendly, thoughtful,
supportive environment.
I'm aware that my penchant for logging in with thoughts like these doesn't
charm a couple of listers here, for whom efficiency and directness is prized
above everything in mailing list dialogue. So it goes. You can't please
everyone, said Clifton Chenier. No, no, that was an inside joke with Ray. I
meant Rick Nelson. :-)
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Captchakiller.com
You know, I make these somewhat tongue-in-cheek comments and it starts a
long controversial thread. What I was referring too is in my case, and my
case only, if I have to depend on someone in my family to read anything to
me, it is an arduous and frustrating task. For example, I needed to fill out
a form. I have people around who can do that. They have plenty of time on
their hands. No one would help and my financial planner finally just came
over and got the form from me and we filled it out. It took all of five
minutes. If I had the funds, I would hire a sighted reader, a driver, etc.,
but I don't so it isn't an option for me, so I am glad for the software I
have that does allow me to read my mail. And that's my two cents worth.
Sherri
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Deutsch" <jdeutsch at dslextreme.com>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Captchakiller.com
Hi Raul,
First of all, let me say that I don't have a dog in this fight, as the
expression goes. If someone feels comfortable using a sighted reader in an
instance like this, fine with me. If they don't begrudge this approach to
someone else, but feel strongly that it's not only more efficient but more
dignified to be able to overcome the CAPTCHA obstacle all by themselves,
either by pressuring for audio links or finding a way to break the system,
also fine by me.
But I think the folks who are objecting to the "sighted reader" approach (I
think of this role more as " that of a sighted accomplice, for some reason)
must feel that the goal of independence means not having to ask another
person for assistance if at all possible. that's why it matters so much to
them, seems like a capitulation and, possibly, even a humiliation.
as someone who's in the process of going blind by degrees (I'm using "blind"
in the most conventional meaning, here), one of the biggest challenges I've
faced over the past few years since my vision crossed the line from being
too poor to drive or make sense of movies to rendering me unable to perform
many more tasks was that of having to learn to ask others for help. And I
have found that although I'm happy to have something like Jaws at my
disposal so I don't require a sighted reader for the vast majority of my
usual reading needs,in other situations, such as shopping for groceries at
my local food markets, I've not only given in to asking to have someone
assigned to me to go around and pluck items off the shelves and put them
into the shopping basket, I more often than not feel enriched by the
interaction,. It took some time to accept feeling like this instead of the
shame and irrational resentment I felt at first-- I mean resentment against
those who were helping me-- and get over the undeniable loss of anonymity
(which is really prized by most people when they have to run their errands;
you drive alone to some store, wrestle a shopping cart out of the parked
stack, wheel it around the store raving things and tossing them into the
cart, and check out at the cashier line, and maybe that cashier is the only
person you acknowledge with at least a "how ya doing today" and a smile
before taking your bags and tossing them into your car. You haven't been
forced to interact with anyone else unless you really wanted to discuss the
French wines with the man who was standing beside you at that display or
flirt with the woman whose eyes met yours over the watermelons). Some
sighted people these days manage to even get past the cashier without a real
affirmation that it's a fellow human being they're dealing with, but rather
talk on their cell phones while they watch the total come up on the cash
register and whip out money to pay with, exchanging nothing but a glance
with the cashier that says "here's the dough, now let's have my change."
This is the kind of privacy and anonymity in a public situation that most
people in the U.S., at least, prize as a social birthright. And disability
robs you of that, as well as rendering something like grocery shopping
massively inefficient and time-consuming compared to before, if you're
experiencing what I've been experiencing over recent years. for me, that's
still a bummer. but not the part about learning to reach out and ask for
assistance and then interrelate a little with the person who helps me.
That's all been an enrichment, despite my regrets. It took me a long time to
get to feeling this, though, I admit. Just saying this stuff in case anyone
else might be heartened to hear it.
And the same with voting. Let's be realistic. I don't go to vote in a
precinct where my vote is likely to arouse hostility on a helper's part,
whether or not someone else might even care about that. I live in an area
that's basically politically friendly for someone of my political bent.
whether or not everyone agrees on this state proposition or that candidate
for office. If I lived in a more threatening locale, I might wish more
fervently to have private voting access, but that's not my situation.
And I'll also confess that the way I deal with the occasional CAPTCHA that
flummoxes me is to email a close friend, give him the user ID and pass I'm
using on that site, and have him log in for me so I can do whatever it was I
was trying to do. I don't feel diminished by that. But I'm also happy that
people campaign to get Web masters to reform on this issue by adding audio.
Both, not just this or that, black and white.
Just a personal observation. I know that others may feel differently, and
I'm not trying to argue or rally anyone to my side. I just felt inspired to
share my own experience of something like this in all its meaning beyond
some political correctness issue.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raul A. Gallegos" <raul at asmodean.net>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:51 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Captchakiller.com
I think it's rather amusing how the informative nature of the original
post has to degrade as to whether using sighted readers is good, bad,
honorable, silly, or something else not mentioned as yet. Come on folks.
Whether you use the killer site or not, or whether you always use
readers or not, what it comes down to is if you get the job done in any
way you can, that is what makes you independent. So, let's not split hairs.
ryan perdue said the following on 3/10/2008 3:03 AM:
> Mike, why would it be an honorable thing?
> Sometimes, it's easy to feel like you're getting in someone's way, that
> would make it worse.
> Accessibility is a right and we need to be able to live independently as
> much as possible.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <darrell.shandrow at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 2:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Captchakiller.com
>
>
>> Hello Mike,
>>
>> I see you trotting out this "sighted reader" argument quite often.
>> That's
>> all fine and good, but...
>>
>> Why should there be screen readers and other assistive technologies for
>> the
>> blind? Couldn't one just avail themselves of a sighted reader?
>>
>> Why should there be accessible voting? Why should the election officials
>> have to help us vote? Shouldn't we all be required to bring our trusty
>> sighted reader with us?
>>
>> Why should anyone purchase a K-NFB reader when they can plunk even more
>> money down over their lifetime to hire the services of a more reliable
>> sighted reader?
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Captchakiller.com
>>
>>
>> Now waaaait a minute here.
>>
>> I agree that the site is progress. But using sighted readers is an
>> honorable thing!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Sherri
>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Captchakiller.com
>>
>>
>> Hey, anything's better than having to wait for a sighted person!
>> Thanks.
>> I'll give it a try.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve Pattison" <srp at internode.on.net>
>> To: "GUI Talk" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>; "Access-L"
>> <access-l at access-l.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 10:44 PM
>> Subject: [gui-talk] Fwd: Captchakiller.com
>>
>>
>> Sent: Sunday, 9 March 2008 9:33 AM
>>
>> Today, I heard about this site on another list, and I love it. If you
>> ever
>> need to use a site that requires captchas,
>> you will to. The url is
>>
>> www.captchakiller.com
>>
>> The first thing you will have to do is sign up for an account. On the
>> home
>> page, they have a lot of forum posts and
>> comments, but if you look for the crate an account link, you should
>> have
>> no
>> problems at all.
>>
>> Once you have an account, you can upload those bothersome captchas,
>> and
>> the
>> site will process them for you.
>>
>> I had a little trouble at first, but once you realize what they want,
>> it's
>> fairly straight forward.
>>
>> I'll give you the step by step instructions.
>> 1. go to the site that has the captcha.
>> 2. find the exact page that has the captcha, and copy the url that's
>> in
>> the
>> address bar.
>> 3. find the captcha on the page, and right click on it.
>> 4. choose the save picture as option and save it to your hard drive.
>> 5. on the captchakiller site, choose the upload captcha link.
>> 6. paste the page url into the url field.
>> 7. hit the browse button on the page, and browse to the file you saved
>> on
>> your computer.
>> 8. after hitting open on the file, hit the submit button on the page.
>> 9. then choose the view captchas link on the page, and find the most
>> recently uploaded one. It should be the one at
>> the top.
>> 10 when you go through the table you'll result, and beside that is
>> what
>> you
>> have to type in for the captcha.
>>
>> This may sound a little complex, but it isn't so bad once you get used
>> to
>> doing it. I'm not saying it's a solution to
>> all our captcha problems, but it sure beats getting sighted help every
>> time
>> you need a captcha interpreted.
>>
>> Another helpful hint I can give you, is to keep the captchakiller
>> site,
>> and
>> the site you want the captcha for, opened at
>> the same time. That way, you can get the captcha processed quickly
>> and
>> enter it on the site before it expires.
>>
>> Hopefully, some people will find this site useful.
>> --------
>> Earle
>> Skype, Twitter, and Yahoo: rowdyamerican
>> MSN: peterson_33 at sympatico.ca
>> Aim: rowdyamerican28
>> ICQ: 155852055
>>
>> Regards Steve
>> Email: srp at internode.on.net
>> Windows Live Messenger: internetuser383 at hotmail.com
>> Skype: steve1963
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>>
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--
Raul A. Gallegos -- http://www.asmodean.net
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