[gui-talk] Fwd: Amazon press releaseConcerningAccessibilityofWeb Site

Fri Jan 4 22:26:05 CST 2008

Perhaps not, but that's the difference between accessible and usable. AS 
we've discovered, there are some that can and some that cannot use the 
Amazon site. Is this a lack of accessibility, or is the site just not 
usable? There are other sites that friends have referred me to and when I 
tried to use them, I had heaps of trouble. Why? Because I didn't find the 
site very usable. Target is one site that has been established as not being 
accessible. Is Amazon accessible? Is it usable? Depends on who you ask, 
*grin*. I do think that they could stand to improve things though on both 
counts. However, Amazon is also not a place that I'd take the beginning Net 
user; not saying that those people who've spoken here are not beginners, 
just making a point.

Captia on the other hand is an issue of accessibility, since we as blind 
users are not able to see the graphic displayed, and since the screen 
readers are not able to read them. If a door is closed and locked, and if I 
don't have a key, then I can't get in; end of story. If there are other 
doors, rooms, and halls that I can take to go around the locked door, then 
that's one thing, but so far, Captia has been a locked door for blind folk 
with no way around it. There have been some sites that have offered 
solutions (keys) to that door, but it continues to be a perplexing problem, 
and sites continue to use it.

Just my thoughts,
Wayne
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "albert griffith" <albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Amazon press 
releaseConcerningAccessibilityofWeb Site

> It appears we're not talking about a problem as easily defined as those
> concerning, say, captia.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Darrell Shandrow
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 9:57 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Amazon press release
> ConcerningAccessibilityofWeb Site
>
> Hello Albert,
>
> I don't consider Amazon to be inaccessible, but I think it could be a lot
> more usable. Ah, but, then, isn't that the sticking point? Accessibility
> versus real usability?
>
> Darrell Shandrow - Accessibility Evangelist Michele Y. Sinnock (sister):
> 7/20/1957 - 11/29/2007 Please visit http://BlindWebAccess.com and sign the
> petition asking Yahoo!
> to make their CAPTCHA accessible!
> Information should be accessible to us without need of translation by
> another person.
> Blind Access Journal blog and podcast: http://www.blindaccessjournal.com
> Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "albert griffith" <albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 6:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Amazon press release Concerning
> AccessibilityofWeb Site
>
>
> I've yet to fail in any attempt to locate a product on that site.  the 
> folks
> at amazon have gone so far as to create a special stripped down version of
> the site for mobile phone users and us.  I have allot of sympathy for 
> their
> web department people.  If someone would give me an example of a product I
> can't find or service I can't use on their site I'd be interesting in 
> taking
> a look.  As it stands, it seems the blind are blaming Amazon for a lack of
> computer skill.  Target's site had problems.  combo boxes didn't work and 
> a
> few other things.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 5:17 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Amazon press release Concerning 
> Accessibilityof
> Web Site
>
> Dave, this is not addressed to you. it's a general statement after reading
> the past few messages.
>
> In some very reasonable bulletins I've seen discussing the need for better
> screen reader accessibility of Web sites, it's stressed that "accessible"
> doesn't necessarily equate to "fully usable." Let us not quarrel over 
> whose
> jaws jockey skills seem better than someone else's, or whatever causes
> people to disregard each others' problems with something like Amazon. And
> that includes the possibility that something in the specifics of the way
> their computer is set up allow them to avoid the problem, even though its
> causes are not well understood outside of the amazon Web design 
> department,
> where I'll bet they know just what's going on but are not dealing with it,
> for some reason.
>
> I'm a perfectly adequate jaws user, if not necessarily a big power user 
> who
> loves to be challenged to discover and perform tricky workarounds of 
> various
> sorts. And I'm not the only one, as I know from the JFW list, who has
> encountered over the past six months or more this problem of the product
> pages being nearly impossible to slog through with Jaws, either using 
> tabs,
> arrow keys or single letter navigation tricks. Something is wrong on that
> part of the site, for more than just one or two poorly skilled Jaws users 
> or
> whining complainers. Let's have a little mutual respect and not tell the
> people who are getting drenched that it isn't raining where you're 
> standing.
>
> This isn't helpful, informative or supportive.
>
> thanks for the kind consideration.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 1:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Amazon press release Concerning Accessibility
> of Web Site
>
>
> No one said it was inaccessible, but it could be better or "more 
> accessible"
> for blind persons.
>
> Dave
>
> At 02:59 PM 1/4/2008, you wrote:
>>Please excuse my ignorance on this one, but I've been successfully
>>shopping on amazon.com for years.  Just exactly what's supposed to
>>be not accessible?   I use the standard www.amazon.com for all my
>>purchases.
>>
>>I do use the search function of my screen reader to bypass a lot I
>>don't wish to see, but that's no big deal.
>>
>>Not meaning to be argumentative, just would really like to know.
>>
>>Don
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>;
>><nfb-announce at nfbnet.org>; <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>; <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>;
>><nfb-web at nfbnet.org>; <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>; <nosb at nfbnet.org>;
>><promotion-technology at nfbnet.org>;
>><nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>; <blparent at nfbnet.org>;
>><blindkid at nfbnet.org>; <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>; <nfb-science at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 11:16 AM
>>Subject: [gui-talk] Fwd: Amazon press release Concerning Accessibility
>>ofWeb Site
>>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>----------
>> >>Amazon.com Accessibility to be Completed June 30, 2008
>> >>
>> >>The National Federation of the Blind and online retailer Amazon,
>> >>Inc., have announced that work to make Amazon.com fully accessible
>> >>to blind computer users is to be completed by June 30, 2008.  In
>> >>March of 2007, Amazon entered into a technology development
>> >>agreement with the National Federation of the Blind pursuant to
>> >>which Amazon was to attempt to make Amazon.com fully accessible by
>> >>December 31, 2007.  Because of the complexity of the task, it was
>> >>recognized that this was an ambitious goal and that problems might
>> >>be encountered; accordingly, the agreement provided that Amazon
>> >>could have a six-month extension, if necessary, to complete work on
>> >>making its Web site fully accessible to blind computer users.
>> >>Amazon's Web site has improved; nonetheless, Amazon recognizes that
>> >>it is not yet fully accessible.  Amazon has indicated that it will
>> >>complete the task within the extended period.
>> >>
>> >>Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>> >>said: "Full and equal access to the Internet is critical in order
>> >>for the blind to participate fully in today's society.  While
>> >>Amazon.com is not yet fully accessible, we are pleased with the
>> >>progress that has been made and we believe that the company remains
>> >>committed to making the site fully accessible.  We will continue to
>> >>work with Amazon.com to ensure that the blind can shop for books,
>> >>music, movies, and the myriad other products available at this
>> >>leading online retailer with the same ease and convenience as all
>> >>other shoppers."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >># # #
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > David Andrews and white cane Harry.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
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>> >
>>
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>
> David Andrews and white cane Harry.
>
>
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