[gui-talk] Fwd: from the mac-access list: New Member Welcome

Tue Apr 1 20:35:18 CDT 2008

Hi everyone!
I thought this message forwarded from the mac-access mailing list may  
be of interest to some members and its forwarded with the permission  
of the author.

Begin forwarded message:
> From: Gordon Smith <gordon at tft-bbs.co.uk>
> Date: 30 March 2008 8:13:51 PM
> To: <mac-access at tft-bbs.com>
> Subject: Re: New Member Welcome
>
> Hi Steve.  If you're considering a Mac, please seriously consider  
> it, <smile>.  I personally now use the Mac 99% of the time.  The  
> only issues I have are that, in some cases, web browsing can be a  
> little irritating.  Onclick controls don't work at all, aren't even  
> recognised by VO, for instance.  Tables don't work in HTML and on my  
> machines, unordered lists aren't even identified at all.  Well, I  
> should qualify that statement by saying some types of unordered  
> lists.  One of my biggest gripes though is that anchors don't work.   
> Anchors are one of the most commonly used elements in HTML and for  
> VoiceOver not to handle them, let alone use them, is nothing short  
> of disgraceful.  But I have made damned sure that Apple is aware of  
> these issues.  I am very vocal on this point, because I believe that  
> this lack of HTML accessibility is a serious flaw, and it prevents  
> us from boasting about accessibility on the Mac - because HTML  
> access is one of the most important issues to any computer user  
> these days if they want to use the Internet.  Now, all that said,  
> there is a lot that does work.  And frequently it works very much  
> better than the Windows counterpart.  So don't lose the faith just  
> because one or two things need to be fixed.  Don't listen to those  
> who would have you believe that VoiceOver is totally useless.  And I  
> can tell you that there are many in the visually impaired community  
> who would have you believe that.  For the most part, they're  
> speaking either from total ignorance, as demonstrated by a series of  
> so-called reviews carried out by those representing the U.S.  
> National Federation of the Blind.  Or, in some cases, they're  
> motivated entirely by self-interest.  For instance, talk to any of  
> the dealers of Window-Eyes or JFW, see what they say.  I'll give you  
> an example.  I recently enquired about the Focus Braille displays  
> with my local dealer of Freedom Scientific products.  I was told in  
> no uncertain terms by them that the Focus series and the Packmate  
> series of displays don't work with Apple Macintosh hardware.   
> Despite my attempts to correct this misapprehension, they wouldn't  
> listen to reason and refused to discuss my requirements further  
> because I wasn't buying JFW.  Utterly unbelievable, but there it  
> is.  Anyway, be that as it may.  I hope, as I said in my original  
> post, that you find this forum of use.  There are a lot of very well- 
> informed people here.  Travis and Esther, not to mention Aaron will,  
> I'm sure, be able to give you lots of good info.  And there are many  
> more people as well.
>
> Gordon.
>
> On 30 Mar 2008, at 02:49, Steve Heidemann wrote:
> Hello Gordon,
>
> Thank you for your welcome. I am currently using a PC running  
> Windows XP and
> Jaws 5.1. I am seriously considering a Mac for my next computer and am
> looking forward to learning more about the Mac from this forum.
>
> I have been listening to various podcasts and reading the Apple  
> forum at
> http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-threads.cfm?f=38 and am  
> impressed with
> Apple's introduction of Voice Over and the way it is providing a  
> viable
> alternative for blind and vision impaired computer users.
>

******************************
Dane Trethowan
 From Melton Victoria Australia
Phone +613 9747 3975
Voiceover Tech Support +613 8732 9237
Fax +613 9743 7954
mailto:”grtdane at iprimus.com.au”
msn: grtdane at iprimus.com.au
skype: callto:grtdane12
*******************************

-------------- next part --------------
Hi everyone!
I thought this message forwarded from the mac-access mailing list may be of interest to some members and its forwarded with the permission of the author.
Begin forwarded message:
From:
Gordon Smith < mailto:gordon at tft-bbs.co.uk gordon at tft-bbs.co.uk
>
Date:
30 March 2008 8:13:51 PM
To:
< mailto:mac-access at tft-bbs.com mac-access at tft-bbs.com
>
Subject:
Re: New Member Welcome
Hi Steve.  If you're considering a Mac, please seriously consider it, <smile>.  I personally now use the Mac 99% of the time.  The only issues I have are that, in some cases, web browsing can be a little irritating.  Onclick controls don't work at all, aren't even recognised by VO, for instance.  Tables don't work in HTML and on my machines, unordered lists aren't even identified at all.  Well, I should qualify that statement by saying some types of unordered lists.  One of my biggest gripes though is that anchors don't work.  Anchors are one of the most commonly used elements in HTML and for VoiceOver not to handle them, let alone use them, is nothing short of disgraceful.  But I have made damned sure that Apple is aware of these issues.  I am very vocal on this point, because I believe that this lack of HTML accessibility is a serious flaw, and it prevents us from boasting about accessibility on the Mac - because HTML access is one of the most important issues to any computer user these days if they want to use the Internet.  Now, all that said, there is a lot that does work.  And frequently it works very much better than the Windows counterpart.  So don't lose the faith just because one or two things need to be fixed.  Don't listen to those who would have you believe that VoiceOver is totally useless.  And I can tell you that there are many in the visually impaired community who would have you believe that.  For the most part, they're speaking either from total ignorance, as demonstrated by a series of so-called reviews carried out by those representing the U.S. National Federation of the Blind.  Or, in some cases, they're motivated entirely by self-interest.  For instance, talk to any of the dealers of Window-Eyes or JFW, see what they say.  I'll give you an example.  I recently enquired about the Focus Braille displays with my local dealer of Freedom Scientific products.  I was told in no uncertain terms by them that the Focus series and the Packmate series of displays don't work with Apple Macintosh hardware.  Despite my attempts to correct this misapprehension, they wouldn't listen to reason and refused to discuss my requirements further because I wasn't buying JFW.  Utterly unbelievable, but there it is.  Anyway, be that as it may.  I hope, as I said in my original post, that you find this forum of use.  There are a lot of very well-informed people here.  Travis and Esther, not to mention Aaron will, I'm sure, be able to give you lots of good info.  And there are many more people as well.
Gordon.
On 30 Mar 2008, at 02:49, Steve Heidemann wrote:
Hello Gordon,
Thank you for your welcome. I am currently using a PC running Windows XP and
Jaws 5.1. I am seriously considering a Mac for my next computer and am
looking forward to learning more about the Mac from this forum.
I have been listening to various podcasts and reading the Apple forum at
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-threads.cfm?f=38 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-threads.cfm?f=38
and am impressed with
Apple's introduction of Voice Over and the way it is providing a viable
alternative for blind and vision impaired computer users.
******************************
Dane Trethowan
From Melton Victoria Australia
Phone +613 9747 3975
Voiceover Tech Support +613 8732 9237
Fax +613 9743 7954
mailto: mailto:”grtdane at iprimus.com.au ”grtdane at iprimus.com.au
”
msn: mailto:grtdane at iprimus.com.au grtdane at iprimus.com.au
skype: callto:grtdane12 callto:grtdane12
*******************************