[gui-talk] Fwd: Creative Screenless Zen Stone MP3 player

Tue May 22 16:40:12 CDT 2007

Albert,
I think that's because something about the burn software is preventing you 
from getting into that edit area, at least that's certainly been my 
experience. If the same kind of thing happened when you were just trying to 
copy and paste a couple of files from folder to folder in Windows Explorer, 
you'd not accept that, and we'd organize a national demonstration in Seattle 
against Microsoft and its accessibility department.

But these audio programs, that is one function where this happens, and 
that's what I think it's about. I have learned from someone on another list 
that often, when you're in this kind of situation, you can pull up that 
context menu (you know, the key to the left of the right control key, or 
Shift f 10, or the right click button on the num pad with Jaws) and find 
some of these functions there and get windows to do it for you, sort of. 
Have you ever tried that? Just get to the point where you have the files in 
RAM on the clipboard, and have the focus on that place where you're supposed 
to insert them, and then put up that applications context menu (there, 
that's what it's called) and see if there's an item in there you can just 
press enter on and have the thing done for you. I'm just guessing,, but it's 
worth exploring.
I use Poikasoft's Easy CD/DVD Extractor, myself, and no matter how many 
updates and upgrades Jukka goes through, there are elements on his interface 
that simply never become accessible to me with Jaws, and I'll go no further 
lest I just start complaining to no purpsoe.

Anyway, just a thought, Albert. Let me know if you try this..
What a ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "albert griffith" <albertpgriffith at hotmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Creative Screenless Zen Stone MP3 player

What's kind of strange is that often you can't cut and paste when you're
asked to drag and drop.  Most notably, when adding files to burn software.

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 3:21 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Creative Screenless Zen Stone MP3 player

Hi Albert,

this is Joel, not Raul. this reply isn't technically informed, just a guess,
but what I imagine, from my brief sighted experience with dragging and
dropping, is this: You know how that worked, yes? You put the mouse pointer
on the thing you wish to copy or move. Then you press a mouse key and hold
it down, then push the mouse around until the mouse pointer is on where you
want to deposit that item, then let go the button, or something close to
that, and the item appears in the new location. I have to guess that, once
you initiate this action by pressing and holding down that mouse button, the
object you're moving goes into RAM in the way something goes to the
clipboard when you do a copy, and when you release that button to drop the
item into its new location, that equates with the Control V command and
takes the thing from memory and puts it down. You know, as if you'd picked
up something, walked across the room, and put it down in another location.
"Drag and drop" strikes me as a kind of misnomer, I guess. It's more like
"carry and drop," except then they couldn't have gotten in the idea that
you'd be "dragging" the mouse, as you'd learned to do, so using the whole
metaphor in a consistent way didn't strike them as quite right. But anyway,
really I think that all that happens is that the item goes to something
like, if not identical with, the clipboard, then is pasted from it later. I
don't think it's actually the coding or something you were wondering about,
is it?
J.
----- Original Message -----
From: "albert griffith" <albertpgriffith at hotmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Creative Screenless Zen Stone MP3 player

I've often asked that someone define the difference between drag and drop
and copy and paste and no one's given me a good answer.  I know how they
different physically but not electronically.

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:25 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Creative Screenless Zen Stone MP3 player

many times when descriptions say drag and drop, it means copy and paste
which is the keyboard equivalent in most cases. While it's true that
sometimes this is not the case, usually the fact that an mp3 player is
labeled as a mass-storage device is a good indicator that it will simply be
seen as another drive on your Windows computer and therefore, copy and paste
will work.

--
Raul A. Gallegos | http://www.asmodean.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Beth Wright" <beth.wright at mindspring.com>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Creative Screenless Zen Stone MP3 player

> Hi.
>
> Just looked at the device list from Audible.com, and the Zen Stone is
> supported.
>
> Beth
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" <freespirit328 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Creative Screenless Zen Stone MP3 player
>
>
>> Wow, this is ironic...I just started looking for an accessible or
>> somewhat accessible MP3 player. I've been worried about the drag &
>> drop thing though...wondering if that was the only way to transfer
>> music because obviously I can't use that method to transfer music.
>> Anyway, as long as I can transfer music using the file menues, I
>> think I'll look into buying this.
>>
>> Jen
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joel Deutsch" <jdeutsch at dslextreme.com>
>> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 1:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Creative Screenless Zen Stone MP3 player
>>
>>
>>> This player sounds pretty attractive and accessible. I just checked
>>> on Amazon and, although there are only three reviews for the black
>>> model (really, when there's a clutch of models in different colors
>>> but they're all the same product, they really oughta consolidate the
>>> customer reviews in one
>>> place) and they were all enthusiastic.
>>> I'm unsure whether the information below is saying they're Audible
>>> compatible and support spoken word audio files from audible.com. I
>>> see the word audible among the formats, but if I were to order one
>>> of these, it would have to be usable for "reading" as well as music,
>>> so I just want to be sure.
>>>
>>> anybody know?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "albert griffith" <albertpgriffith at hotmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 9:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Creative Screenless Zen Stone MP3
>>> player
>>>
>>>
>>> I mainly use my JP3 player for Windows protected files and those I
>>> download from Rhapsody which are also protected.  While the
>>> navigation system isn't voiced, it seems manageable.  The problem I
>>> have with the one I own is that there are too many choices on the
>>> menu and they're not organized in a way where a pattern can be
>>> discerned.  I'm going to purchase one of these, soon.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve Pattison
>>> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 8:12 PM
>>> To: GUI Talk; Access-L
>>> Subject: [gui-talk] Fwd: Creative Screenless Zen Stone MP3 player
>>>
>>> Prices mentioned in this message are in US dollars.  -Steve.
>>>
>>>>From: petrakigianos-giasou at yahoo.com
>>>>To: blind_geek_zone at freelists.org
>>>>
>>>>This is for your information only. I am not telling you to buy this
>>>>screenless mp3 player. you make your own judgement on this.
>>>>
>>>>For $40 I think it is worth buying this device to use at the beach
>>>>or on a overseas trip to Europe one day.
>>>>
>>>>If you lose it on the trip that's ok.
>>>>
>>>>If it gets scratched that's ok too.
>>>>
>>>>The key is it is screenless. Has no display on the device.
>>>>Another good thing it requires no software. It is plug and play device.
>>>>The only thing I haven't found out is how to charge the battery.
>>>>Looks you need a computer or notebook PC around to charge the
>>>>device. Regular alkaline batteries would have been much better for this
device.
>>>>
>>>>Note: The best mp3 player is the BookPort from aph.org.
>>>>
>>>>You can copy and paste your folders and files to the device which is
>>>>great.
>>>>
>>>>I will put my Replay AV 8 recordings on this device. Does this
>>>>player remember the last show you were listening to? Hope so.
>>>>You can put a couple of your favorite CDs on the device.
>>>>
>>>>Read the review below.
>>>>
>>>>-----
>>>>
>>>>Creative Zen Stone Review
>>>>
>>>>By: Grahm Skee - Anything But iPod
>>>>
>>>>Published on: 5/10/2007 11:13 PM
>>>>
>>>>Creative Zen Stone 1GB MP3 Player- Black
>>>>
>>>>Creative dropped the Zen Stone seemingly out of nowhere to compete
>>>>head-on with the iPod Shuffle,
>>>>
>>>>doing so at half the price with more to offer. Creatives screenless
>>>>player is a very basic offering - only audio playback and data storage.
>>>>However, the
>>>>
>>>>player does step out of the current Zen lineup feature set by
>>>>offering up true MSC drag and drop, catering to all operating systems.
>>>>
>>>>The Zen Stone makes a great secondary player to your audio arsenal,
>>>>handy for the gym or any
>>>>
>>>>place you need a simple, truly portable music solution.
>>>>
>>>>Read on for a look at all the features Creative has managed to pack
>>>>into this player, as well as
>>>>
>>>>a peek at the Stones insides, disassembled for all to see.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Quick Specs
>>>>
>>>>list of 8 items
>>>>. Size WxHxD: 2.1" x 1.4" x 0.5
>>>>. Weight: 0.88 oz
>>>>. Storage Capacity: 1GB (250 songs 4 minutes per song at 128 kbps
>>>>mp3) . Battery Life: Up to 10 hours continuous playback . Battery Type:
>>>>Rechargeable Li-ion Polymer . Playback Formats: MP3, WMA, WAV and
>>>>Audible . Connect Type: UMS/MSC . Available Colors: Black, White,
>>>>Pink, Blue, Red, Green list end
>>>>
>>>>Accessories
>>>>
>>>>Included in the package is the bare minimum: the Zen Stone itself, a
>>>>pair of earbuds, standard
>>>>
>>>>USB cable, and a quick start guide. Creative is also rolling out a
>>>>few accessories to go along with the Stone, like an arm band,
>>>>neoprene keychain holder,
>>>>
>>>>speaker dock, and silicone clip case. Third parties will be
>>>>releasing their own cases and accessories as well, so you wont be
>>>>short changed on available
>>>>
>>>>accessories.
>>>>
>>>>Design
>>>>
>>>>The Zen Stone is coated in a hard, smooth plastic giving it the feel
>>>>of a nicely polished river
>>>>
>>>>rock. The plastic is the same material found on the Zen V Plus and
>>>>is fairly scratch resistant; it will scratch but not easily under
>>>>typical use. It is
>>>>
>>>>pleasant to hold in your hand and lends to a very useable design -
>>>>small but not too small to use for bigger hands.
>>>>
>>>>A nice touch added to the left side of the player is a place to
>>>>connect a lanyard for wearing
>>>>
>>>>around your neck. The standard USB plug is found on the bottom with
>>>>the headphone jack located on the top. On the left face of the
>>>>player is an LED that will
>>>>
>>>>indicate the status of the player and the battery level with various
>>>>flashing sequences and LED colors.
>>>>
>>>>Controls
>>>>
>>>>Controls are very basic. The center play button operates as the on
>>>>button, as well as the off
>>>>
>>>>with a long press. The directional up operates volume and the
>>>>directional left and right operate the skip/scan forward and backward.
>>>>On the top is a switch
>>>>
>>>>that allows you to select either standard track-by-track play or
>>>>shuffle-all-music play. The switch also slides to the right, which
>>>>advances you to the
>>>>
>>>>next file folder. This is a very nice touch for allowing better
>>>>control and organization on a screenless MP3 player.
>>>>(More on this below under Music
>>>>
>>>>Playback.)
>>>>
>>>>Transferring Music
>>>>
>>>>The Zen Stone is MSC (UMS) meaning that it will work with any modern
>>>>operating system without
>>>>
>>>>installing software, including Windows, Mac, and Linux. Music is as
>>>>simple as dragging and dropping music files and/or entire folder
>>>>directories of music
>>>>
>>>>files. I have zero complaints about this method; it is the purest,
>>>>easiest way to get music onto an MP3 player. If you are interested,
>>>>Windows Media Player
>>>>
>>>>will also work with the Zen Stone, as it's compatible with any type
>>>>of removable media. This may be useful for using features that will
>>>>shuffle or
>>>>
>>>>randomly select 1GB worth of music to the player. [Also note that
>>>>since the player is MSC, you are able to use the player as a flash
>>>>drive to store documents,
>>>>
>>>>photos, and other file types.]
>>>>
>>>>Creative Media Lite Software
>>>>
>>>>Although not packaged with the Zen Stone, Creative Media Lite
>>>>software can be downloaded for free
>>>>
>>>>on Creatives website. The lite version of their Creative Media
>>>>software is designed for the player to transfer music, rip CDs,
>>>>organize folders, and
>>>>
>>>>manage some extra features you could only do on a player with a screen.
>>>>The main screen shows you the percentage of battery left on the
>>>>player as well as the
>>>>
>>>>firmware version, which is also updated though the software.
>>>>There is also a volume limit feature that allows you to set the
>>>>maximum volume limit and
>>>>
>>>>password-protects the ability to change it. This is useful for
>>>>protecting your childrens hearing.
>>>>
>>>>Disassembly
>>>>
>>>>Cracking into the Zen Stone without damaging it may be a bit difficult.
>>>>The face of the player is
>>>>
>>>>snapped into four places near each of the corners. However, all of
>>>>the edges seem to be glued or fused together. I was not able to get
>>>>it apart without
>>>>
>>>>causing serious cosmetic damage to the outside casing. There is
>>>>nothing user-serviceable, so breaking into the Zen Stone is merely
>>>>for the sport of it,
>>>>
>>>>anyway.
>>>>
>>>>Music Playback
>>>>
>>>>There are two different play modes: repeat all and shuffle all.
>>>>Repeat all simply plays all the
>>>>
>>>>files on the player in order. The order is alphabetical by track
>>>>title but also by folder title. For instance, if you have a few
>>>>folders and a few songs
>>>>
>>>>in the root directory, the player will start with the tracks in the
>>>>files in the root directory (files not in a
>>>>folder) then move through the folders
>>>>
>>>>alphabetically. The Zen Stone has no limit to the number of folders
>>>>but limits the depth of the folders to three. There is also a file
>>>>limit of 1000 total
>>>>
>>>>files.
>>>>
>>>>The player has a folder skip button that is activated by sliding the
>>>>switch to the left. This
>>>>
>>>>will allow you to skip though one folder at a time. This is nice for
>>>>when you want to load entire albums onto the player where the button
>>>>will allow you to
>>>>
>>>>flip though the 10-12 CDs you ripped to the player. It could also be
>>>>nice to make folders for different mixes. For instance, you could
>>>>make a folder
>>>>
>>>>just for the gym or a folder for a party mix.
>>>>
>>>>Sliding the switch to the right will put it in shuffle mode.
>>>>This will shuffle through all songs
>>>>
>>>>and all file folders.
>>>>
>>>>Sound Quality
>>>>
>>>>Sound quality is pretty good and typical of Creatives line of Zen
>>>>players. I found that the
>>>>
>>>>frequencies are well balanced, having a flat response. EQs are
>>>>always nice, but the Stone can get away without having one.
>>>>
>>>>Conclusion
>>>>
>>>>The Zen Stone is an extremely basic screenless 1GB MP3 player.
>>>>Without a screen, Creative added
>>>>
>>>>some nice features that allow you to easily and blindly navigate
>>>>your tunes. The Zen Stone works with all modern operating systems
>>>>and doubles as a
>>>>
>>>>standard data flash drive, making loading music and other files as
>>>>easy as it gets. I really have a hard time finding a reasonable
>>>>complaint for a screenless MP3
>>>>
>>>>player priced at $40. If you need a simple music solution or
>>>>something to accompany your other player, pick one up. You wont be
disappointed.
>>>
>>> Regards Steve
>>> Email:  srp at internode.on.net
>>> Skype:  steve1963
>>> MSN Messenger:  internetuser383 at hotmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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