[gui-talk] Audio Menus for iPods

Ziggy Reinhardt ziggy.reinhardt at gmail.com
Fri May 18 18:00:42 CDT 2007 

You can get MP3 files (but not all other file formats) that were sent to the IPod from ITunes to play on an IPod from the rockbox firmware. You'll first need to select the database option (the synthesised voice file on my unit says "tag cache" instead of "database". Then you'll need to initialize the database. The database contains all of the songs you have sent from ITunes, as well as those you have copied dirrectly onto the player.
The best thing I like about Rockbox, besides the "voicing", is the way you can copy files dirrectly onto the player. A great advantage of this method is, aside from having to deal with the inaccessibility of ITunes, is that you can get the voice generation script to work so that you can get the song names completely spoken, not just numbered or spelled. (the generation script uses the file names to generate the clips, not the info from the tags--which contain the name of the song artist, the album the song is in, etc.) This voicing method works with the files menu option, but you need to choose the options from the settings menu first.) (the ITunes-sent music is in a hidden folder with garbage-like filenames.)
Markus


On 5/18/07, Geetha Shamanna <geetha at millernorbert.de> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> 
> I very well understand your point.
> Although Rockbox installation is sufficiently easy, a non-technical person 
> may find it difficult to understand the issues involved. one has to copy the
> voice file separately in order to make it talk, and one has to run a script 
> in order to make Rockbox speak file and folder names.
> The whole process is not very straight-forward unless one is accustomed to 
> reading help files and installing software on their own.
> 
> One quick clarification before we end this thread:
> It is certainly possible to play files downloaded from Itunes even after 
> installing Rockbox. In order to do that, one has to boot into iPod's 
> firmware instead of the Rockbox firmware. I just want to say that Rockbox 
> does not tamper with the iPod's firmware or the in-built features, and they 
> are always available parallelly to the user.
> 
> Geetha
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Audio Menus for iPods
> 
> 
> Geetha,
> 
> Thank you for the clarification, and I readily admit that "replace the guts"
> is hardly a technical description on my part.  Also, I don't mean to sound 
> as though I don't
> think RockBox is worth looking at.  People need to know what it is and what 
> it isn't.  If someone tells me that they have a talking I Pod, my assumption
> would be that
> it is an I Pod with I Pod capabilities that happens to also speak.  I would 
> assume that it would play the I Tunes selections I already downloaded more 
> easily.  From
> what I understand this is not the case, and you seem to confirm that. 
> Still, if someone knows that and doesn't purchase protected music, that fact
> won't matter.
> 
> Nevertheless, if RockBox does not play protected Apple files and if it 
> supports file formats that the original I Pod does not support, that says to
> me that one is
> substantially running a different device rather than simply making the I Pod
> talk.  That's all right, but I don't think people necessarily realize that. 
> I certainly didn't
> before I got the chance to talk to someone using it.  My understanding is 
> that there could also be some warranty questions as well, although this 
> isn't completely
> clear.
> 
> I think this is a great effort and an opportunity to learn about how we 
> might make off the shelf products more accessible.  However, since many 
> people who are
> using I Pods are not technical, it makes sense to me to be careful to try to
> make it clear as to what is involved and what the software does.  It is good
> to know that
> the installation procedure is pretty good now, although I also know you to 
> be a technically knowledgeablt person.  Many I Pod users would have no idea 
> of what a
> "dual boot" device is.  I hope this makes my point a bit more clearly, but I
> am always open to being corrected when something I write is not accurate.
> 
> On Thu, 17 May 2007 20:47:56 +0530, Geetha Shamanna wrote:
> 
> >Unfortunately, most of what you have heard is not true.
> >I installed Rockbox on my iPod about three weeks ago; it took me less than
> >ten minutes and was a total breeze.
> >Their manual is very well-written and has clear instructions. Also, Rockbox
> >does not replace the "guts of the player" at all, but continues to retain
> >the original player firmware. Rockbox simply turned my iPod into a dual 
> >boot
> >device. I can easily either boot into Rockbox or the iPod firmware.
> >Finally, while Rockbox does not support Apple's proprietory format, it
> >offers support for a whole host of file formats including the open-source
> >format OGG, which Apple's firmware does not support. My 30GB iPod video
> >would have been totally inaccessible but for Rockbox.
> >Rockbox developers bring out daily builds and deal with bugs and feature
> >suggestions in a very organized manner.
> >Considering that Rockbox is open-source and the work put in by developers 
> >is
> >totally voluntary, it is a remarkable piece of software.
> 
> >Geetha
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> >To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 11:26 PM
> >Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Audio Menus for iPods
> 
> 
> >While this is true, my understanding is that RockBox pretty much replaces
> >the "guts of the player and doesn't support any protected media, apple's or
> >WMA.  It is
> >also not that easy to install from what I've seen and read unless something
> >has changed. It is a very interesting approach, though, and it shows that 
> >an
> >accessible
> >small player is certainly possible..
> 
> >On Tue, 15 May 2007 22:06:17 +0530, Geetha Shamanna wrote:
> 
> >>Rockbox already does this quite well.
> 
> >>----- Original Message ----- 
> >>From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> >>To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>; <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>;
> >><nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; <promotion-technology at nfbnet.org>;
> >><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>; <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:29 AM
> >>Subject: [gui-talk] Audio Menus for iPods
> 
> 
> 
> >>>I thought this was very interesting ...
> 
> 
> >>Dave
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>Technology Review
> >>>>Tuesday, May 08, 2007
> >>>
> >>>>Audio Menus for iPods
> >>>
> >>>>By Kate Greene
> >>>
> >>>>LINK: Download an MP3 version of this story
> >>>>http://www.audiodizer.com/technologyreview/infotech/download.aspx?id=18
> >>>
> >>>>703 Researchers are testing ways to let people listen to gadget menu
> >>>>options
> >>>>instead of looking at them.
> >>>
> >>>>Clicking through the menu on your iPod demands a significant
> >>>amount of
> >>>>visual attention, which can be a hassle (while jogging) and even
> >>>dangerous
> >>>>(while driving). But engineers at the University of Toronto and
> >>>Microsoft
> >>>>Research are working on software that could make it possible to
> >>>navigate
> >>>>the menus of gadgets that use circular touch pads, like the iPod,
> >>>without
> >>>>looking at them--only audio cues would be used.
> >>>>
> >>>>The researchers have designed an auditory menu technique--called
> >>>>earPod--that provides audio feedback when a person drags his or
> >>>her finger
> >>>>around the touch pad. Although it's not ready to replace the
> >>>expansive
> >>>>menus on real iPods, the results are encouraging, says Patrick
> >>>Baudisch, a
> >>>>research scientist at Microsoft Research, in Seattle, who worked
> >>>on the
> >>>>project.
> >>>>
> >>>>LINK:
> >>>>http://www.patrickbaudisch.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>Within 30 minutes of beginning to use the technology, people can
> >>>>navigate
> >>>>two levels of earPod menus faster than traditional visual menus,
> >>>and just
> >>>>as accurately.
> >>>>
> >>>>"Requiring constant visual attention while using a PC is
> >>>reasonable,"
> >>>>says
> >>>>Baudisch, "but if you're using an iPod on the road, [constant
> >>>visual
> >>>>attention] is unreasonable." In addition to giving people back
> >>>their eyes,
> >>>>he says, audio menus could help gadgets save battery life by not
> >>>wasting
> >>>>energy on a screen, and they could add functions to the
> >>>screen-free
> >>>>devices such as the iPod shuffle.
> >>>>
> >>>>The idea of using audio menus isn't new. Auditory interfaces can,
> >>>after
> >>>>all, be found in touch-tone phone menus and in various assisted
> >>>>technologies for seeing-impaired users. But historically, handheld
> >>>
> >>>>consumer gadgets haven't widely used audio menus. There are a few
> >>>reasons
> >>>>for this, says Bruce Walker, professor in the school of psychology
> >>>and
> >>>>college of computing at Georgia Institute of Technology.
> >>>>
> >>>>LINK:
> >>>>http://sonify.psych.gatech.edu/~walkerb/
> >>>>
> >>>>One reason, he says, is that audio hardware and software have
> >>>been
> >>>>resource intensive, requiring significant amounts of computation
> >>>and
> >>>>energy. In addition, audio software has been difficult to
> >>>program.
> >>>>
> >>>>But computing power is becoming cheaper, and there is an
> >>>increasing
> >>>>need
> >>>>to find different ways to interact with handheld devices, says
> >>>Walker.
> >>>>Within the past 10 years, he says, the ubiquity of mobile devices
> >>>with
> >>>>small displays "has made us all visually impaired." Currently
> >>>there are
> >>>>only a handful of researchers who are systematically looking at
> >>>ways to
> >>>>make better audio interfaces for various devices, but Walker
> >>>expects the
> >>>>ranks to grow in the coming years.
> >>>>
> >>>>This first earPod prototype has a two-level menu hierarchy with 8
> >>>items
> >>>>per category, for a total of 64 items. To test how well people use
> >>>the
> >>>>system, the researchers assigned to the first menu level a random
> >>>
> >>>>assortment of categories: "clothing," "fish," "instrument,"
> >>>"color," and
> >>>>four others. The next level contained eight examples of these
> >>>items. The
> >>>>iPod analogy would be found in the opening menu, which includes
> >>>"music,"
> >>>>"extras," "settings," and then lower menus that include
> >>>"playlists,"
> >>>>"artists," and "albums," for instance. The earPod approach could
> >>>be
> >>>>extended to read off a limited number of names of artists and
> >>>songs as
> >>>well.
> >>>>
> >>>>EarPod was designed specifically for gadgets with circular touch
> >>>pads,
> >>>>says Baudisch. The circular touch pad is evenly divided into eight
> >>>
> >>>>sectors: it's cut like pieces of a pie, with each menu item
> >>>associated
> >>>>with each piece. When a person touches the dial of an
> >>>earPod-equipped
> >>>>gadget, the audio menu responds with a prerecorded human voice. If
> >>>a
> >>>>person puts his or her finger at 12 o'clock on the touch pad, the
> >>>voice
> >>>>might say "Color," indicating that the finger is on the color
> >>>sector. When
> >>>>the finger crosses one of these invisible sector lines, the user
> >>>hears a
> >>>>clicking sound. As a finger moves, a new menu item is announced.
> >>>To select
> >>>>an item and go to the next menu level, the user lifts his or her
> >>>finger
> >>>>and hears a "camera-shutter" sound, which indicates that an item
> >>>has been
> >>>>chosen.
> >>>>
> >>>>Because the touch pad is divided into portions, says Baudisch,
> >>>people
> >>>>can
> >>>>easily learn where menu items are and quickly jump to certain
> >>>items
> >>>>without having to scroll through a list, as with an iPod. Another
> >>>feature
> >>>>of earPod, he says, is that a user doesn't need to wait until a
> >>>menu item
> >>>>is read before moving on to another. When a finger moves to a new
> >>>sector,
> >>>>the audio is interrupted and the new item is announced.
> >>>>
> >>>>In the earPod usability study, conducted by Shengdong Zhao, a
> >>>doctoral
> >>>>student at the University of Toronto, and project lead, the
> >>>researchers
> >>>>found that people who had no experience using either an iPod or an
> >>>
> >>>>earPod-equipped device used the devices with equal accuracy.
> >>>EarPod was
> >>>>92.1 percent accurate, while the visual system was 93.9 percent
> >>>accurate,
> >>>>but the difference was not statistically significant. It took
> >>>people
> >>>>longer to grow accustomed to earPod, but with experience, users'
> >>>>performance on the audio menu became faster. After 30 minutes of
> >>>training
> >>>>on both devices, subjects could navigate two levels of menu with
> >>>earPod in
> >>>>2.1 seconds as opposed to 2.5 seconds with the visual menu.
> >>>>
> >>>>Georgia Tech's Walker is impressed with the earPod approach and
> >>>>results.
> >>>>"My overall impression is that this is great ... It was
> >>>inevitable: trying
> >>>>to look at how to take an interface that is purely visual on the
> >>>iPod and
> >>>>turn it into an interface that's purely auditory, because, after
> >>>all, the
> >>>>iPod's an auditory device. Why should a person have to pull their
> >>>player
> >>>>out while they're jogging to look at it?"
> >>>>
> >>>>Currently, however, earPod could not be a complete replacement for
> >>>an
> >>>>iPod
> >>>>menu, Walker notes. One reason is that earPod doesn't lend itself
> >>>to menu
> >>>>flexibility. Once a person learns the position of the menu items,
> >>>he or
> >>>>she might become frustrated if those positions need to change due
> >>>to a
> >>>>software update or added playlist. In particular, the approach
> >>>would not
> >>>>work well for menus such as mobile-phone address books, Walker
> >>>says.
> >>>>
> >>>>In addition, adds Baudisch, because the circular track pad is
> >>>divided
> >>>>into
> >>>>sectors, there are a limited number of menu items that a person
> >>>can
> >>>>access. If there are 8 sectors, each with 8 menu items, then there
> >>>are
> >>>>only 64 total items accessible on the device, and this wouldn't be
> >>>good
> >>>>enough for iPods that hold hundreds of playlists and thousands of
> >>>songs.
> >>>>However, Baudisch suspects that future prototypes will provide
> >>>ways to get
> >>>>around the problem. He and his team are exploring how people
> >>>respond to
> >>>>faster audio output (speeding up the recorded voice) and how
> >>>people use
> >>>>audio and visual cues simultaneously. Developing an
> >>>all-encompassing
> >>>>interface for eyes-free operations on auditory devices is still a
> >>>future
> >>>>project, he says.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/18703/
> >>>>
> 
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