[gui-talk] Blind Americans demand Web access; Target fights back(fwd)

Joel Deutsch jdeutsch at dslextreme.com
Wed Jan 10 20:07:59 CST 2007 

Hi Cindy,
I've read this over a couple of times and I'm not sure what you're saying. 
Could you rephrase it? Thanks.
hans,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "slery" <slerythema at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:27 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Blind Americans demand Web access;Target fights 
back(fwd)


Joel, I can use my vision to use the web some times and I have
found the use of being able to use the mose physically in window
eyes to be a great help but it still will not speak anything that
it would not if you were simply using the keyboard.

Cindy


> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com
>To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List <gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:15:06 -0600
>Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Blind Americans demand Web access; Target
fights back(fwd)

>Joel,

>With Window-Eyes, one does get some feedback when moving the
physical mouse.  I have occasionally used this feature with the
mouse pad on my laptop to find
>something and click on it or to get some sense of how a window
was arranged.  However, I was mostly using the phrase "using the
mouse" to include both the
>occasional use of the physical mouse in conjunction with the
ability to manipulate the mouse pointer with the screen reader
keys.  I'll try to go into more detail if it is
>interesting, but I think you and I are in basic agreement.  While
I have a lot of experience using computers, I think there are
probably those who are more
>comfortable with using the mouse pointer than am I, and there are
probably those who are less comfortable.  In my opinion, it is
probably not accurate to say that
>blind people can't use a mouse when one takes into account the
abilities provided by screen readers.  However, I don't think it
is unreasonable to say that the use
>of the mouse pointer, however we manipulate it, is generally much
less efficient for us than for sighted persons and also much less
efficient than keyboard
>navigation.  particularly in the case of web sites, it seems not
unreasonable to ask that keyboard navigation that has been there
for the past ten or fifteen years not
>be discarded in favor of development shortcuts or flashier
displays.  With a little thought, both should be possible.
Again, I think this is just too complicated to
>squeeze into most news articles, and I am comfortable with the
statement that we can't use a mouse in a very general context as
is presented in such articles.  At
>the risk of coming up with a poor analogy, it is easier to say
that wheelchairs can't be used on stairs than it is to define
that stairs of a small enough size could be
>navigated if the person using the chair has enough arm strength
and/or has a drive motor of sufficient power and wheels of a
given diameter and width.  It needs to
>be noted, though, that there were more complicated issues with
the Target site, at least orriginally, than just using the mouse.
There were buttons that sometimes
>appeared that neither screen reader would recognize at all.  the
fact that a particular blind person might be comfortable
navigating a site with the mouse keys is not,
>in and of itself, proof that a site is going to be reasonably
accessible to the average blind person, nor is it proof that
keyboard navigation should be abandoned.

>On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:06:00 -0800, Joel Deutsch wrote:

>>Steve,
>>Maybe I'm misunderstanding your phrasing. But what do you mean by
"less
>>efficient use of the mouse?" Literally. Please describe a
situation in which
>>a blind person might use the mouse, although not as "efficiently"
as it
>>could be used. I can't figure out what you mean by this.I guess I
also might
>>ask what you jmean by "less efficient" use of wa screen reader's
mouse keys.
>>If you happen to mean the same thing by both of them, please
mention that.
>>Thanks.

>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com
>>To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 5:54 PM
>>Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Blind Americans demand Web access;Target
fights back
>>(fwd)


>>Doug,

>>You took the words right out of my mouth.  To say that blind
people can't
>>use a mouse is probably an oversimplification,
>>but I have not seen a situation where we can use a mouse in the
same manner
>>as a sighted person uses it.  In addition,
>>though, there is pretty good keyboard navigation and labeling
capability
>>built into HTML and associated constructs.  For
>>us to accept the less efficient use of the mouse or mouse keys,
even when
>>they could be made to work, would not just
>>mean a slowing of progress, it would mean taking steps backward
on the
>>Internet.  Most often, the things we ask for on
>>web sites are things that have been accidentally taken away from
us.  While
>>it is probably fair to say that we are trying to
>>get better access to the internet, often we are simply trying to
get back
>>what we have lost.

>>On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:25:47 -0500, Doug Lee wrote:

>>>My understanding is that the problems occur only when you try to
>>>purchase from Target's web site.  Now about the mouse and the
blind...

>>>In any publication, things necessarily get simplified so readers
>>>unfamiliar with the situation being publicized are not lost.  The
>>>statement, "Blind people can not use a mouse," is both
technically
>>>true in by far most situations, and also accurate in the concept
it
>>>portrays, again in the vast majority of cases.  Besides that,
sighted
>>>users with limited hand coordination are also unable to use a
mouse,
>>>also covered by the ADA, and also troubled I assume by Target's
web
>>>site for the same reason we are.

>>>Now yes, a blind person well trained in the use of JAWS,
Window-Eyes,
>>>or a similar product may, and I emphasize may, be able to do
>>>efverything required on that web site.  Personally, I've never
been
>>>there, so I can't bring my own experience to this table.  But I
can
>>>say that a whole lot of blind people I've met do not deviate
>>>substantially from the "normal" ways of interacting with web
sites.
>>>Using the JAWS or Window-Eyes cursor to locate and click on an
icon on
>>>a web site is quite a deviation from the virtual-view approach we
all
>>>learn to use.  Technically, it should not be necessary. I say
that
>>>based on Section 508 standards and corresponding W3C guidelines
that
>>>establish how a web site should behave.  Section 508 does not
apply
>>>here as a law, but the standards themselves do, and they are used
by
>>>companies and individuals not bound by Section 508 as a measuring
>>>stick for accessibility.

>>>So in conclusion, I believe it is irrelevant whether the article
says,
>>>or even just implies, that a blind person is unable to use a
mouse.
>>>The article is trying to say that Target's web site is a problem
for
>>>blind people and people with other disabilities, establish waht
is
>>>being done and can be done about it, portray what Target's public
and
>>>apparent views are, and finally provide tips to others on how to
avoid
>>>this kind of problem for themselves.

>>>On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 02:50:53PM -0600, Arliedog wrote:
>>>With Window Eyes you use the number pad to do the same functions
as using
>>>the physical mouse.  I just went to the target web site and had
no
>>>problems.
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: <slerythema at insightbb.com
>>>To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:13 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Blind Americans demand Web access; Target
fights
>>>back (fwd)


>>>> Please explain your comment.  I am at a total loss as to how
totally
>>>> blind
>>>> people use a mouse.

>>>> Cindy

>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Arliedog <ddlmh50 at insightbb.com
>>>> Date: Tuesday, January 9, 2007 14:34
>>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Blind Americans demand Web access;
Target fights
>>>> back (fwd)
>>>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List <gui-talk at nfbnet.org

>>>>> So the NFB thinks that blind people can't use a mouse?  WRONG!!!
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com
>>>>> To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>;
>>>>> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>;
>>>>> <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>; <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>; <nabs-
>>>>> l at nfbnet.org>;
>>>>> <promotion-technology at nfbnet.org>; <nfb-science at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 12:33 PM
>>>>> Subject: [gui-talk] Blind Americans demand Web access; Target
>>>>> fights back
>>>>> (fwd)




>>>>>>>This story appeared on Network World at
>>>>>>>http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/010508-target.html

>>>>>>>Blind Americans demand Web access; Target fights back
>>>>>>>Court battle expected to heat up in coming months
>>>>>>>By Jon Brodkin, Network World, 01/05/07
>>>>>>>Retailer Target's refusal to make its Web site more accessible
>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>blind
>>>>>>>has fueled a high-profile court battle that is causing many
>>>>> companies to
>>>>>>>quietly upgrade their Web sites in the hopes of avoiding negative
>>>>>>>publicity
>>>>>>>and legal liability.
>>>>>>>The case will unfold over the next several months, but a
>>>>> federal judge
>>>>>>>has
>>>>>>>already dismissed Target's claim that Americans with
>>>>> Disabilities Act
>>>>>>>prohibitions against discrimination do not apply to commercial
Web
>>>>>>>sites.
>>>>>>>This ruling, and other advocacy efforts on behalf of the
>>>>> blind, has
>>>>>>>caused a
>>>>>>>number of "major e-tailers" to upgrade their sites to make them
>>>>>>>compatible
>>>>>>>with software the blind use to access the Internet, says Paul
>>>>> Rosenfeld,>>senior vice president of federal accessibility
>>>>> solutions at the SSB BART
>>>>>>>Group in San Francisco, a consulting firm founded by
>>>>> technologists with
>>>>>>>disabilities.
>>>>>>>These online retailers contacted SSB BART to assist in that
>>>>> upgrade, but
>>>>>>>Rosenfeld says he can't identify the companies because they
>>>>> wish to
>>>>>>>remain
>>>>>>>anonymous.
>>>>>>>"This Target case, it's been a wake-up call for e-tailers,"
>>>>> Rosenfeld>>says.
>>>>>>>Before the case, advocacy groups for the blind would often ask
>>>>> companies>>to
>>>>>>>upgrade their Web sites and not receive immediate results, he
says.
>>>>>>>Retailers typically don't make those upgrades right away
>>>>> "unless there's
>>>>>>>litigious action or some need for risk management," he says.
>>>>>>>There are 1.3 million legally blind Americans, and nearly 9
>>>>> million more
>>>>>>>who
>>>>>>>are visually impaired, according to the American Foundation
>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>Blind.
>>>>>>>Click to see: A Web site as a sighted user sees it.
>>>>>>>  Targeting Target
>>>>>>>A class action lawsuit filed by the National Federation of the
Blind
>>>>>>>(NFB)
>>>>>>>accused Target.com of lacking alt-text for many graphics,
preventing
>>>>>>>blind
>>>>>>>customers from browsing products and looking for Target
locations.
>>>>>>>Moreover, Target.com requires that all transactions be
>>>>> performed with a
>>>>>>>mouse, the NFB said, a barrier that prevents blind people from
>>>>>>>purchasing
>>>>>>>products online. While a blind person can use a keyboard, just
>>>>> as a
>>>>>>>sighted
>>>>>>>person can type without looking at the keys, a blind person
>>>>> cannot use a
>>>>>>>mouse because it requires the ability to see the mouse cursor
>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>screen.
>>>>>>>Accessible Web design allows the blind to navigate sites using
>>>>> just Tab,
>>>>>>>Shift-Tab, and Enter.
>>>>>>>The Target lawsuit is unique because most companies, when told
>>>>> by blind
>>>>>>>people that their Web sites are inaccessible, are willing to
>>>>> make the
>>>>>>>necessary upgrades, says John Pare, spokesman for the National
>>>>>>>Federation of
>>>>>>>the Blind. They may not make the change instantly, but
>>>>> companies at
>>>>>>>least
>>>>>>>begin the process of fixing the problems. Legal action is a
>>>>> last resort
>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>the NFB, he says.
>>>>>>>"We really work to resolve it locally," he says. "The only
company,
>>>>>>>certainly in the last several years, that has said just plain
>>>>> 'no' is
>>>>>>>Target."
>>>>>>>Target's refusal surprised the NFB, because the retailer is
>>>>> losing out
>>>>>>>on
>>>>>>>money blind people are willing to spend, and the lawsuit may
>>>>> damage the
>>>>>>>company's public image. "We're just completely shocked," Pare
says.
>>>>>>>When contacted by Network World, Target reiterated a statement
the
>>>>>>>company
>>>>>>>originally issued in October, which reads as follows:
>>>>> "Target.com is
>>>>>>>committed to providing an online experience that is accessible
>>>>> to all of
>>>>>>>our
>>>>>>>guests. Despite the lawsuit brought forward by the National
>>>>> Federation>>of
>>>>>>>the Blind (NFB), we have always and will continue to implement
new
>>>>>>>technologies to our Web site. We are in the process of making
online
>>>>>>>enhancements that will benefit all of our guests, including
>>>>> those with
>>>>>>>disabilities. These enhancements will occur regardless of the
>>>>> outcome of
>>>>>>>this lawsuit."
>>>>>>>In court, Target argued that its Web site is not a "place of
public
>>>>>>>accommodation" the way a brick-and-mortar store is, and that
>>>>> the site is
>>>>>>>therefore not governed by the Americans with Disabilities Act
>>>>> (ADA). A
>>>>>>>U.S.
>>>>>>>District Court judge in California rejected the argument,
>>>>> saying that
>>>>>>>restricting the ADA's discrimination provisions to physical
>>>>> locations>>"would
>>>>>>>contradict the plain language of the statute."
>>>>>>>More than three years ago, New York Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer
>>>>>>>argued
>>>>>>>that the ADA requires commercial Web sites to be accessible,
while
>>>>>>>investigating Priceline.com and Ramada.com. The companies
>>>>> agreed to pay
>>>>>>>fines totaling $77,500 and implement a variety of upgrades to
>>>>> help the
>>>>>>>blind
>>>>>>>navigate their Web sites.
>>>>>>>Despite that agreement, the Target court ruling was the first to
>>>>>>>directly
>>>>>>>state that the ADA applies to private Web sites, advocates for
>>>>> the blind
>>>>>>>say. The court has not yet addressed the practical question of
>>>>> how to
>>>>>>>define
>>>>>>>accessibility, Pare says. A court date is scheduled for April to
>>>>>>>determine
>>>>>>>whether the suit against Target can go forward as a class action.
>>>>>>>"This is not going to happen quickly," Pare says.
>>>>>>>Tracy Andrews, a 43-year-old resident of Cheshire, Conn., who
>>>>> has been
>>>>>>>legally blind since she was a child, says she often encounters
>>>>>>>difficulty
>>>>>>>when searching the Web but is surprised Target has opted to
>>>>> fight the
>>>>>>>lawsuit.
>>>>>>>"I think in the long run, if Web sites can make themselves more
>>>>>>>accessible
>>>>>>>it's going to be to their advantage," Andrews says. "To fight
>>>>> it is only
>>>>>>>being a stick in the mud. The tide is moving, you might as
>>>>> well go along
>>>>>>>with it."
>>>>>>>State and federal government Web sites are already required to be
>>>>>>>accessible
>>>>>>>to the blind due to the ADA and other laws, says Judy Brewer,
>>>>> director>>of
>>>>>>>the Web Accessibility Initiative at W3C in Cambridge, the
>>>>> World Wide Web
>>>>>>>Consortium, an international standards organization.
>>>>>>>Although the legal requirements for private companies are not
>>>>> as clear,
>>>>>>>many
>>>>>>>commercial Web sites have already made the switch to
accessibility.
>>>>>>>Amazon.com and Wal-Mart have Web sites that are in good shape,
Pare
>>>>>>>says.
>>>>>>>Organizations can apply to the NFB for a certification
demonstrating
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>their site complies with accessibility guidelines. Ten have
>>>>> obtained the
>>>>>>>certification, including Merck, Legal Sea Foods, HP, General
>>>>> Electric,>>Wells
>>>>>>>Fargo and the Social Security Administration.
>>>>>>>Merck became certified in April 2005, before the Target
>>>>> lawsuit. An
>>>>>>>external
>>>>>>>contract to upgrade the site cost about $35,000, and Merck
>>>>> devoted at
>>>>>>>least
>>>>>>>two employees to the project, says Larry Tattoli, associate
>>>>> director of
>>>>>>>Merck.com. The process "wasn't that difficult," he says.
>>>>>>>A bigger challenge has been maintaining accessibility as the
>>>>> Web site
>>>>>>>grows
>>>>>>>and changes, Tattoli says. Whenever a new image is added, a
>>>>> Web site
>>>>>>>developer has to add alt-text that can be read to a blind person.
>>>>>>>On a positive note, Merck officials found that making the site
>>>>>>>accessible to
>>>>>>>the blind did not alter the visual presentation, as they had
feared.
>>>>>>>"It was this feeling that the text would have to be huge, or you
>>>>>>>couldn't
>>>>>>>have any images on it, it would be text-only pages. It's not
true,"
>>>>>>>Tattoli
>>>>>>>says. "The pages I could show you before it was accessible and
>>>>> after it
>>>>>>>was
>>>>>>>accessible are exactly the same."
>>>>>>>The cost of making a Web site accessible usually equals 5% to
>>>>> 10% of the
>>>>>>>cost of Web maintenance, says Preety Kumar, CEO of Deque
>>>>> Systems, a
>>>>>>>Reston,
>>>>>>>Va., company that helps Web site designers automate the task of
>>>>>>>complying
>>>>>>>with accessibility standards.
>>>>>>>"A very small percentage" of companies have made their sites
>>>>> accessible,>>she
>>>>>>>says.
>>>>>>>"They're overwhelmed, that's what I'm sensing," Kumar says.
>>>>> "There are
>>>>>>>companies that are responding to the Target lawsuit, and
>>>>> they're paying
>>>>>>>attention because they realize the risks of noncompliance are not
>>>>>>>insignificant."
>>>>>>>Beyond the blind
>>>>>>>Blind people aren't the only ones with disabilities using the
>>>>> Internet.>>Deaf
>>>>>>>people, for example, can access visual portions of the Web
without
>>>>>>>assistance but are often out of luck when it comes to audio
>>>>> files or
>>>>>>>sound
>>>>>>>on video files, even though there are tools Web developers can
>>>>> use to
>>>>>>>add
>>>>>>>captions.
>>>>>>>People with severe motor disabilities can use voice
>>>>> recognition software
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>surf the Web, as paralyzed actor Christopher Reeve did before
>>>>> his death.
>>>>>>>If
>>>>>>>they still have some ability to use their hands, they can also
>>>>> be helped
>>>>>>>by
>>>>>>>the same accessibility guidelines designed for the blind.
>>>>> Someone who
>>>>>>>can
>>>>>>>type but cannot manipulate a mouse can surf Web sites that are
fully
>>>>>>>accessible with a keyboard.
>>>>>>>"If you do it right and you make your Web site accessible to
>>>>> the blind,
>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>do cover other [disabled] populations largely," Kumar says.
>>>>>>>Among the disabled, Kumar says she thinks blind people are the
most
>>>>>>>challenged because they need a clean text-to-speech
>>>>> translation in
>>>>>>>addition
>>>>>>>to a mouse alternative.
>>>>>>>People who are deaf and blind would be worse off, obviously,
>>>>> but they
>>>>>>>can
>>>>>>>use a Braille display, a strip located in front of the computer
>>>>>>>keyboard. A
>>>>>>>mechanism inside the strip controls small pins that go up and
>>>>> down to
>>>>>>>form
>>>>>>>Braille letters.
>>>>>>>Andrews, the legally blind Connecticut resident, says she's
>>>>> using a
>>>>>>>7-year-old version of ZoomText, a program that reads text out
>>>>> loud and
>>>>>>>magnifies the screen. Sometimes text is read to her in a
nonsensical
>>>>>>>order,
>>>>>>>particularly when it is arranged in columns instead of
>>>>> paragraph form.
>>>>>>>Andrews says her outdated version of ZoomText may be causing
>>>>> problems>>but
>>>>>>>that poor text-to-speech translation is also often due to the
>>>>> Web sites
>>>>>>>themselves.
>>>>>>>"Newer Web sites are better than older Web sites," she says.
>>>>> Learning>>how to
>>>>>>>use the Internet when you can't see is something that takes
>>>>> time, even
>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>the technology is up to date, she says.
>>>>>>>"It can be a little slow going. Like anything, you get better
>>>>> at it.
>>>>>>>It's a
>>>>>>>skill you develop," Andrews says.
>>>>>>>Web site developers may find it easier to establish
>>>>> accessibility if
>>>>>>>they
>>>>>>>are building a whole new site, rather than upgrading an old
>>>>> one. That's
>>>>>>>what
>>>>>>>officials at Legal Sea Foods found when they decided to
>>>>> replace their
>>>>>>>Web
>>>>>>>site in January 2005 because it had become old and stale, says
Ken
>>>>>>>Chaisson,
>>>>>>>vice president of information technology at the Boston
>>>>> restaurant chain.
>>>>>>>Starting from scratch is a "heck of a lot easier" than changing
>>>>>>>everything
>>>>>>>on an existing Web site, he says. Financially, making the site
>>>>>>>accessible to
>>>>>>>the blind is worth it for Legal even if just five extra groups
>>>>> of people
>>>>>>>come to one of the restaurants, he says.
>>>>>>>But only a small number of companies have upgraded their Web
sites,
>>>>>>>according to some observers. A March 2006 survey found that
>>>>>>>three-quarters
>>>>>>>of businesses listed in the FTSE 100 Index in London failed to
meet
>>>>>>>minimum
>>>>>>>Web site accessibility requirements set by British laws to end
>>>>>>>discrimination against disabled people.
>>>>>>>Observations by Brewer of W3C square with the study's findings.
>>>>>>>"The majority of sites on the Web are not fully accessible to
people
>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>disabilities," she says.
>>>>>>>Click to see:

>>>>>>>Can the blind, and other disabled people, use your Web site?


>>>>>>>Here are 10 quick tests to check accessibility:
>>>>>>>1       Make sure informational
>>>>> images (like your organization's logo)
>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>alternative text. Place the cursor over the image. A box
>>>>> should appear
>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>a brief, accurate description.
>>>>>>>2       Check decorative images
>>>>> for alternative text. If the image has
>>>>>>>no
>>>>>>>function other than to look nice, it should not have any
alternative
>>>>>>>text.

>>>>>>>3       "Listen" to audio and
>>>>> video content with the volume turned off.
>>>>>>>This
>>>>>>>is the situation faced by a deaf person. Make sure your Web site
>>>>>>>supplies
>>>>>>>written transcripts for all audio content.
>>>>>>>4       Make sure forms are
>>>>> accessible. Each item in a form should have
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>prompt text. When you click on the prompt text, a flashing
>>>>> cursor should
>>>>>>>appear in the box next to the text.
>>>>>>>5       Check that text can be
>>>>> resized. In Internet Explorer go to
>>>>>>>View>Font
>>>>>>>size>Largest. If the text does not increase in size, your site
>>>>> may be
>>>>>>>inaccessible to users with low vision.
>>>>>>>6       Check your Web site in
>>>>> the Lynx browser. This is a text-only
>>>>>>>browser. If a site makes sense in Lynx, it probably fulfills many
>>>>>>>accessibility guidelines.
>>>>>>>7       Use your Web site
>>>>> without a mouse. If you can't navigate your
>>>>>>>site
>>>>>>>using just tab, shift-tab, and enter, then neither can people
>>>>> using only
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>keyboard or voice recognition software.
>>>>>>>8       Make sure there is a
>>>>> site map
>>>>>>>9       Make sure alternative
>>>>> text associated with links make sense out
>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>context. Blind users often jump from one link to the next with
>>>>> the tab
>>>>>>>button.
>>>>>>>10      Check your Web pages with an
>>>>> automated program, such as WebXACT
>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>Wave.
>>>>>>>11      Use ASCII text that screen
>>>>> access software can convert to speech
>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>Braille.
>>>>>>>12      Provide meaningful text
>>>>> labels for hypertext links. Labels like
>>>>>>>"click here" aren't good enough.
>>>>>>>13      Make sure tables and multi-
>>>>> column text does not prevent screen
>>>>>>>access software from rendering pages in an intelligible and
useful
>>>>>>>manner.
>>>>>>>Even sophisticated screen access software has trouble with
>>>>> tables that
>>>>>>>contain many columns, such as bus and train schedules.
>>>>>>>Source: Webcredible, London
>>>>>>>All contents copyright 1995-2007 Network World, Inc.
>>>>>>>http://www.networkworld.com


>>>>>> David Andrews and white cane Harry.


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> gui-talk mailing list
>>>>>> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> gui-talk mailing list
>>>>> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk




>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> gui-talk mailing list
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>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk

>>>_______________________________________________
>>>gui-talk mailing list
>>>gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk

>>>--
>>>Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org
>>>SSB + BART Group         doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
>>>http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>>>"When there is no enemy within, the enemies outside cannot hurt
you."
>>>--African Proverb
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>gui-talk mailing list
>>>gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk



>>_______________________________________________
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