[gui-talk] FW: Times/Delta ArticleOn IndependentVoting: 06062006

Fri Jun 9 13:38:35 CDT 2006

You're a little late, Steven, as it's finished now.  Sorry to have 
inconvenienced you.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen at independentliving.com>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] FW: Times/Delta ArticleOn IndependentVoting: 
06062006

Can we take this off list

Stephen A. Guerra
Assistive Technology Specialist
Independent Living Aids
200 Robbins Lane
Jericho, NY 11753
E-Mail: can-do at independentliving.com
www.independentliving.com
www.soundbytes.com
Phone: (516) 937-1848
  Fax: (516) 937-3906

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:44 AM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] FW: Times/Delta ArticleOn IndependentVoting:
06062006

Steve,

Well put,and I understand.  So, by "influence" you meant influence by
way of
the apprehensions someone might feel in the situations you describe.
The
self-consciousness.  That, I understand, however unfortunate it is that
this
can happen.  But I really have taken you and the people in the article
to
mean literal, deliberate influence, by instruction and/or intimidation.
So
thanks for taking the time to make the hypothetical dynamic clearer to
me.

As for going off topic, don't feel guilty.  It's I who started this,
with my
reaction to that article.  And I don't think it's going to hang anything
up
here.  Well, unless Nick reads his backed-up email and feels inspired to

respond at some length...:-)

Joel
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] FW: Times/Delta ArticleOn IndependentVoting:
06062006

Joel,

First, please understand that my comments were really made in general
and I
wasn't responding only to your note but to
the issue as a whole.  There has always been a part of me that felt we
had
bigger issues to face than private voting.  As
you probably already know, our right to voting machines that we can use
came
about as part of the Help America Vote
Act (HAVA) and that has opened up opportunities.  My comments on not
allowing this law to be violated is really more a
statement of my own belief that even though I could live without an
accessible voting machine, after all I have for thirty-
five years, we can't let the law be ignored or downplayed as has been
the
case in some areas.  Sorry for the confusion
there.

What I mean by poll workers having influence is that poll workers often
come
from one's own neighborhood.  An
extreme example would be something like this.  What if a poll worker was

also a member of your church council and you
were voting on an issue that required you to take a position on
abortion.
What if the poll worker was the spouse of your
child's teacher and you were voting on a school bonding issue and you
felt
it was not needed.   What if the poll worker
was your child's soccer coach and you were voting on what you thought
was a
wasteful recreation expansion project.
Ideally, we should be proud of our political beliefs and hopefully feel
that
it is our right to hold a given opinion.  Still,
nobody else has to worry about what someone will think of how they vote
unless they choose to make it known.  In this
sense, I can understand the good feeling of knowing I will be able to
cast a
completely private vote this fall.  Whether
the cost to society is worth it is a question I can't answer, but since
it
is the law, I will enjoy it and make use of it.  I hope
this is clearer, and I must also comment that I have probably gone a bit
off
topic for this list.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:01:09 -0700, Joel Deutsch wrote:

>Steve,

>I have to admit I don't actually get some of what you're saying, though

>I'm sure it sounds more familiar to others.  No one's trying to violate

>anything that I'm aware of; maybe you mean the ADA obligates voting
>commissions to put blind-friendly voting equipment into place and so
>they should do it?  I agree.  Why not.  I didn't say I was against
>blind friendly voting machines,
>pleas understand.  Not a bit.  I didn't say I thought it was a waste of
>money, or a misplacement of blind access lobbying priorities, either.
It's
>all fine with me.  I just said I personally didn't care much.

>Before I respond to your other comment, I'll admit in a down to earth
>way that if I found myself living in a different part of the country
>where the prevailing social and political ethos was radically different

>from what I'm comfortable with-- I don't want to start anything by
>being more specific or vivid than that-- I might feel perhaps self
>conscious about a poll worker taking a dislike to me as he or she
>punched out chads on a ballot for candidates and issues hateful to him
>or her.  But even then, that's not the same as fear or intimidation.
>In other words, I'm asking you now, what are you talking about,
>referring to a poll worker who has influence?  What kind of influence?

>Some sort of power over a voter?  You mean the way a racist white poll
>worker might have power over the one black voter that had somehow
>slipped by the poll tax and literacy test blockades in his little town
>during the time of Jim Crow, and whom he could threaten with violence
>or loss of a job if he caught him not voting for the right sheriff or
>mayor? Are there blind voters who actually feel that poll workers have
>some power over them?  That's precisely what I was asking, and you seem

>to have actually confirmed without saying so that this could be the
>case.  Now, let me ask this:  Do you thin that's because the blind
>voter in such a case feels infantilized by having to ask for help, and
>thus turns into a compliant or scared little kid in the voting booth
>with the "adult" helper? Or is it possible that there are actually some

>poll workers who let a blind voter actually know what their own
>political sentiments are, and try to intimidate them into voting in
>accord with those preferences, and sometimes succeed?  I feel awkward
>asking these questions, because it is starting to look as if there
>could be a hole nightmarish scenario around blind voting that I would
>never have imagined.  How on earth can a poll worker have any influence

>at all on anyone?  And in fact, why on earth would a proper poll worker

>let anyone who comes in to vote know anything about their own political

>preferences?  That's not only funky, it's almost certainly an actual
>violation of duties as a poll worker.

>As far as drawing blind voters into participation, that's a whole other

>topic, I think.  If a lot of blind Americans are disaffected
>politically, by which I do *not* mean "disenfranchised" but rather
>disinterested and apathetic, that isn't the fault of having to ask
>someone to punch a few holes in a card.  As I said, while I can see how

>people might feel nice to be able to vote for themselves, I've never
>given this a single thought, just
>learned to ask for help.  Never a troubled moment about it.  I think
it's
>the reasons for the apathy and disconnectedness that have to be
addressed,
>before the voting paraphernalia.
>oting boothstioic drwai

>Any other takers on this question?
>Joel

>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 5:33 AM
>Subject: Re: [gui-talk] FW: Times/Delta Article On IndependentVoting:
>06062006

>My guess is that you have never voted with a poll worker whom you knew
>or who may have been in a position of some influence that could affect
>you.  I have usually been pretty open about my political beliefs so it
>has never been a big issue with me, but I was surprised when I was put
>in the position of being helped by a poll worker I knew that I did feel
>apologetic about voting in a manner that I knew was consistently
different
>than his.  I will be honest, I am not convinced
>that the huge amount of money spent is necessarily the most effective
way
>for us to be made a part of society, but the
>law passed and is being implemented, so we need to take advantage of
it.
>We
>also can't let people violate the law just
>because they don't happen to like it as is sometimes the case.

>On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:37:08 -0700, Joel Deutsch wrote:

>>I'm fascinated.  Shocked, actually.  I quote from the story below:

>>"It's extremely liberating," McElroy said. "When you can go to the
>>polling place and cast your own ballot, it contributes to our
>>participation in the community.

>>"There was a time when I voted not by what I believed, but by what the
>>poll
>>worker would have wanted," added McElroy, a retired Tulare County
social
>>services employee."

>>Drake agreed.

>>Maybe someone else on this list who reads that knows, in a way I can
>>only guess, the factors that would result in someone saying something
>>like this. since I became unable to read print, around ten years ago,
>>I've voted in most state, local and national elections here in my Los
>>Angeles neighborhood
>>with the assistance of one of the poll workers.  Never, ever did it
even
>>occur to me to feel constrained in the slightest by what I might've
>>imagined
>>the poll worker's political sentiments to be for that election's slate
of
>>candidates and issues.  Why would it occur to me?  I was just a person
who
>>used to be able to vote alone, now had a disability that made it
necessary
>>to get assistance, and I was a confident, middle aged person who knew
his
>>own personal, social and political values and studied the issues and
>>candidates for himself over time in the news and prior to election day
in
>>the reports and recommendations articles in several different local
>>newspapers.  I wasn't a child, or a recently-freed slave, or whatever
kind
>>of person would imagine the poll worker as an authority figure as if
>>living
>>in a totalitarian society.  I can't even imagine where this is coming
>>from.
>>Plus the poll workers treated me respectfully and I could sense
without
>>any
>>doubt onfusion that they knew that their job was to assist me, not to
>>discuss politics nor try to exert any sort of influence over my
choices.
>>The whole idea is way off the wall, for me.  Now, in all seriousness,
and
>>to
>>a list that I believe has a number of subscribers, perhaps a majority,

>>with
>>longer and deeper connections both to blindness and to the nature of
the
>>blind experience than I do, I must ask this.  Both these people in the
>>article have lived nearly their entire lives sightless.  For anyone
here
>>to
>>whom it's congenial to think about social and psychological issues,
>>especially any with actual educational or intellectual background in
such
>>things, could this be a psychological characteristic of some or many
>>life-long blind people?  To experience a level of intimidation such
that
>>being able to vote alone would be a meaningfully liberating and even
>>astonishing experience, as these two describe it?  I know it wouldn't
be
>>that way to me, should I ever get a chance to use some new voting
ooting
>>machine of this sort.  I'll be glad to be able again to perform for
myself
>>another function that I used to do on my own, as I once could shop for
>>groceries without help.  But that will be all there is to it.  It
won't be
>>a
>>personal or political liberation.  I really find this a disconcerting
>>revelation.  I'll bet there's quite a lot I don't know about the blind

>>life
>>in this sense.

>>Please understand that I do not mean this question rhetorically or
>>sarcastically, nor am I trying to express anything disparaging about
>>these two blind partners in life.  I'm glad the change suits them and
>>increases their enthusiasm for voting.  But what I'm looking for would

>>be knowledge at the level of blind culture and psychology, at least
>>insofar as what this example of it can be taken to mean.

>>Thanks.  To anyone who would like to discuss this or contribute some
>>knowledgeable observations I might learn something from, but doesn't
>>want to engage in such a discussion here on the list, please feel free

>>to email me privately at jdeutsch at slextrem.com.

>>thanks a lot.  Please, no flaming.  I repeat that I'm not putting
>>anyone down or anything like that.  Thanks for understanding.

>>ershaps (weild aesitaiton espectuflly, and espectuflly, and whoeverhad

>>inf0oneighbgorhood e ow, Since>Visually impaired vote on their own
>>>By Ryanne Persinger
>>>Staff writer
>>>Voting is now one less obstacle David McElroy and Pamela Drake will
>>>have to deal with.
>>>For the first time in their lives, McElroy and Drake, both blind,
were
>>>able
>>>to vote without assistance from friends or poll workers when they
used
>>>the
>>>audio option of a touch screen voting machine in Tuesday's election.
>>>The voting machine at their polling station, Community of Christ
Church
>>>at
>>>2127 S.
>>>Giddings St., allowed them to vote using headphones and a key pad
with
>>>Braille and large buttons.
>>>"It's extremely liberating," McElroy said. "When you can go to the
>>>polling
>>>place and cast your own ballot, it contributes to our participation
in
>>>the
>>>community.
>>>"There was a time when I voted not by what I believed, but by what
the
>>>poll
>>>worker would have wanted," added McElroy, a retired Tulare County
social
>>>services employee."
>>>Drake agreed.
>>>"I think [the new system] will make me more interested and more
motivated
>>>to
>>>vote,"
>>>she said. "It means more when you're actually doing it yourself. ...
It
>>>has
>>>more of an impact."
>>>Drake lost her sight at 4 months old, and McElroy has been blind his
>>>birth.
>>>They've been partners for 13 years.
>>>Both said the new voting machine is the most convenient way they have
>>>voted.
>>>"Before, we had to go down to the courthouse and get an absentee
ballot
>>>or
>>>get the help of a friend or the polling place," Drake said.
>>>Kim Shannon, county elections supervisor, said when a person is using
the
>>>audio voting option on the machine, the screen will read, "audio
voting
>>>enabled."
>>>That way people walking behind a blind person won't be able to see
who he
>>>or
>>>she is voting for.
>>>She added that voters do not have to be blind or have a disability to
use
>>>the machine.
>>>One machine was at each of the county's 75 polling stations.
>>>Cheri Olson, a poll volunteer, said using the machine is simple.
>>>"It's like playing video games," she said.
>>>McElroy admitted he was more interested in the voting machine than
the
>>>actual outcome.
>>>"This is a boring election," he said. "I wasn't sure I would have
come
>>>out
>>>to vote if it weren't for that gadget."
>>>The reporter can be reached at rpersing at visalia. gannett.com.
>>>Originally published June 7, 2006
>>>
>>>Steve R. Fujimoto/Times-Delta
>>>David McElroy was one of the first blind people in Tulare County to
>>>vote unassisted. They used the new touch-screen voting machines at
>>>Community of Christ Church
>>>in Visalia.
>>>McElroy writes about what the change means in a column on Opinion/
6A.
>>>How it works
>>>Voters go to polling station, sign roster and indicate they want to
use
>>>the
>>>touch screen machine Voters turn in their paper ballot and receive a
>>>voter
>>>card Voter card is inserted into the touch screen Voter uses
headphones
>>>and
>>>a key pad with Braille and large buttons The audio lists candidates
names
>>>After voting, a receipt prints
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>COMMENTARY
>>>Technology allows voting independence
>>>There are certainly challenges to being a blind couple in a seeing
>>>world; one has just been mitigated. Tuesday, June 6, 2006. Election
>>>Day in California and Tulare County. Just another in a stream of
>>>midterm elections similar to many in which we have taken part for
>>>years. Similar, yes. Exactly the same, decidedly not.
>>>
>>>For the first time in our lives, Pam and I have voted independently.
>>>For the first time, as blind people, our ballots were cast in secret
>>>with absolute
>>>privacy.
>>>Yes, the long-standing tradition of a secret ballot has now been made
>>>available to anyone whose physical disability might preclude them
from
>>>marking a ballot in the traditional manner.
>>>As active participants in civic life, unfettered access to the ballot
box
>>>has always been a problem. We could either depend on a trusted friend
to
>>>read the ballot and mark our choices at the polling place, request
the
>>>assistance of a poll worker or depend on the absentee ballot, again
with
>>>the
>>>assistance of another person.
>>>For me, this issue really hit close to home not too many years ago. A
>>>highly
>>>charged issue was on the ballot, and I was certain that the poll
worker
>>>who
>>>assisted me did not share my views on the matter at hand. This made
me
>>>extremely uncomfortable, as I had no wish to offend. Additionally,
there
>>>was
>>>always the possibility that others in the room would have heard my
>>>selection, no matter how quietly I spoke.
>>>Therefore,
>>>being relatively certain of the fact that my one vote would have made
no
>>>difference to the outcome, I voted in opposition to my belief. Pam
chose
>>>not
>>>to vote at all on that issue.
>>>In subsequent years, we have completed absentee ballots, initially
with
>>>the
>>>help of a dear friend, now deceased and more recently we've gone to
the
>>>elections office to complete this process. But as of June 6, those
>>>methods
>>>have, at least for most elections, been consigned to the history
books
>>>thanks to the federal Help America Vote act and to modern technology.
>>>On May 30, one week before the election, we went to the Office of
>>>Elections
>>>and were given a thorough demonstration of the machine. A simulated
>>>ballot
>>>was presented, depicting a primary election and listing names of
signers
>>>of
>>>the Declaration Of Independence.
>>>After "voting" for one candidate on the ballot, Pam wrote herself in
as a
>>>candidate for President of the United States, bypassing Benjamin
Franklin
>>>and John Adams. The exercise demonstrated not only our ability to
cast a
>>>private ballot, but also to write in the name of a candidate should
the
>>>need
>>>arise.
>>>How it works: Each polling place will have one electronic touch
screen
>>>terminal, along with the traditional ballots. This terminal can be
>>>operated
>>>via the touch screen or push button panel, depending on one's needs.
>>>Anyone
>>>may request and cast an electronic ballot.
>>>For our purposes as blind voters, a little box resembling a VCR's
remote
>>>control is attached to the terminal. With the press of a button,
vocal
>>>descriptions of the ballot's choices are presented to the voter via
an
>>>earphone. The screen is blank during the process. Left and right
arrows,
>>>along with a "select" button allow us to move through the ballot
making
>>>and
>>>reviewing our selections, and ultimately confirming our desired
choices
>>>before officially casting the ballot.
>>>The electronic ballots are stored in memory for counting later.
>>>Additionally, there
>>>is a paper readout available for hand counting, in the event of a
>>>recount.
>>>It is our hope that this is the beginning of a new era. As active
members
>>>of
>>>our community, we look forward to it.
>>>David McElroy and Pam Drake made Tulare County history on Tuesday as
the
>>>first blind people in the county to cast their ballots on Election
Day at
>>>a
>>>polling place without
>>>The             assistance of another party. They live in Visalia.
>>>Originally published June 7, 2006

>>Regards Steve
>>Email:  srp at internode.on.net
>>Skype:  steve1963
>>MSN Messenger:  internetuser383 at hotmail.com

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