[gui-talk] National Federation acknowledgements Ruling on U.S. Currency
albert griffith
albertpgriffith at hotmail.com
Tue Dec 5 17:46:46 CST 2006
Term limits are imposed with full knowledge of such a restriction forcing a
person born to lead the organization being forced to step down.
Conventional wisdom states that entrenched power does more harm than good.
The most conscientious leader will draw a cadre of yes people to his or her
side which tends to work against innovation from within the organization.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation acknowledgements Ruling on U.S.
Currency
| Joel:
|
| Policies of the NFB are set by the resolutions passed at National
| Convention. Anyone can write and submit a resolution to the
| Resolutions Committee, which is appointed by the President each
| year. The Committee meets at the beginning of convention, in an open
| meeting and discusses each resolution, and recommends pass or don't pass.
|
| The resolutions then come up at the business session of the
| Convention and are voted on by everyone present. Technically each
| state has one voting delegate and if a vote is close the delegates
| are polled. However, most votes are voice votes with everybody
| voting, not just the delegates.
|
| Officers and Board Members are elected for two year terms. There are
| no enforced term limits. We tend to have a good deal of stability in
| our leadership positions because we elect good leaders who do a good
| job. Leadership is not a kids game where everybody gets a
| term. Term limits may remove bad people, but they also remove good people
too.
|
| Hope this helps.
|
| Dave
|
| At 03:05 PM 12/1/2006, you wrote:
| >Seville,
| >
| >That's not quite responsive to the intent of my question. So let me
| >ask two questions.
| >
| >1. What individual or committee is it that makes and announces such
| >policy decisions?
| >2. Is the membership consulted by vote or plebescite prior to the
| >setting of each such decision?
| >3. Whether there's membership input or not, are the people
| >described by question 1 elected officers of the organization wwith
| >limited terms of office between election cycles? Or are they hired
| >or appointed by someone, for indefinite terms?
| >
| >Thank you.
| >
| >----- Original Message -----
| >From: Seville Allen
| >To: 'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'
| >Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:46 PM
| >Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation
| >oftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
| >
| >
| >What happens is the policy is changed through our resolution process
which
| >is how our NFB policy is made.
| >One can look at resolutions through the years as they are posted on the
NFB
| >website.
| >
| >
| >-----Original Message-----
| >From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
| >Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
| >Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:20 PM
| >To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
| >Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of
| >theBlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
| >
| >As an outsider to the NFB, I have to ask a basic thing: When a lot of
| >members disagree with enough policy positions of the NFB leadership, are
| >there periodic nationwide elections where two or more candidates run for
| >the top posts, and new leadership can be voted in? Or are the top
positions
| >more like job appointments of indefinite duration?
| >
| >Thanks. I know it's a really basic question about organizational
structure,
| >but I've heard about national conventions and so forth, but never about
| >elections of any sort.
| >
| >Thanks.
| >nd ndefniite to wish for a idifferent olicty p9o
| >----- Original Message -----
| >From: George and Pamela Dominguez
| >To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
| >Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:51 AM
| >Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
| >BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
| >
| >
| >As long as we support the NFB, I don't think they can demand that we
agree
| >with every single thing. After all, we are individuals who belong to an
| >organization of people who are blind. I don't agree with everything all
the
| >way, but when I don't, I don't make a fuss. I just keep it to myself if
I
| >can't get somebody to convince me why I should change my mind. I still
| >believe in the principles of the NFB, and I'm glad we have it. Pam.
| >----- Original Message -----
| >From: "Doug Lee" <dgl at dlee.org>
| >To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
| >Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 2:29 PM
| >Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
| >BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
| >
| >
| > > I must giggle at this, then hesitantly and hopefully briefly reply:
| > >
| > > I think we all agree that inaccessible computers deny us jobs.
| > > Computers and money do have in common the trait of being hard to live
| > > without these days. However, whereas I'm sure a list of jobs
| > > impossible without computer access would fall together in a hurry on
| > > the slightest public prompting, I doubt a list of jobs impossible
| > > without tactily identifiable money would so easily form. Witness the
| > > existence of this very mailing list to address the need to make
| > > computers accessible, and as far as I know, the profound absence of
| > > such a list for the problems we have handling money. Money-Talk, or
| > > would that be Money-Talks? Hmm. <grin>
| > >
| > > My personal view, in case anyone wants it: I would like identifiable
| > > money, but I believe it will be extremely expensive to make that
| > > happen unless someone manages a way to do it that requires no
| > > modification to the myriad money readers out there--laundry machines,
| > > change machines, soda machines, etc. I believe the money modification
| > > should have been made when other changes were being made to reduce
| > > counterfitting, and I even think the NFB defended this position at the
| > > time. I think the strongest argument against changing money for blind
| > > people is not what it will make people think of blindness, but as Mike
| > > said, what danger we place current laws in by trying to use them to
| > > accomplish such a mountainous task. Were it me, I would not spend my
| > > money fighting this, but I would neither go to the barricades and
| > > assert it as necessary. Finally, I hope the outcome of this is,
| > > ultimately, a change in US money, even if it occurs as part of
| > > something else, and even if not immediately.
| > >
| > > Disclaimer, if that's what it is: I am an NFB member and have been
| > > since about 1984. If I disagree with an NFB policy, I know where to
| > > go to speak my mind.
| > >
| > > On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:21:21AM -0600, jaybee wrote:
| > > There's just as little need to change the currency to make it
accessible
| >as
| > > there is to change the computer to make it accessible. Regards, Jesse
| > > "To err is human; to forgive divine (Alexander Pope, 1688.")
| > > ----- Original Message -----
| > > From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
| > > To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
| > > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:47 PM
| > > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
| > > BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
| > >
| > >
| > > Well glad you know how the court things before there is ever any oral
| > > argument. It's strange that we ask that printed materials be put in
| > > accessible format such as braille electronic files or tape. Or we ask
that
| > > the bus system be made more accessible so we can know when our stops
are
| > > coming or that elevators have braille and large print on them so we
can
| >know
| > > what floor we're getting off of. When there is an nfb convention, the
| >rooms
| > > are marked in braille. Why because we are blind and cannot see to read
| > > print. But when it comes to one of the most important things in the
world,
| > > knowing what money you have the instant its given to you, oh that's
not a
| > > good thing because of blindness.
| > > The reason why people are not cheated on a wide scale basis is because
we
| > > take all of these extra steps that sighted people never have to do to
| >avoid
| > > being cheated. And I've heard more than a few instances of where
people
| >have
| > > accidentally given a wrong bill and lost a lot of money. I can say I'm
not
| > > one of them. But I'm still glad the judge realizes that this is
important.
| > > Quite frankly if the u.s. supreme court could fool the criminal
defense
| >bar
| > > with the crawford decision two years ago, don't be so sure that the
| >judge's
| > > decision will be reversed on appeal.
| > >
| > > s
| > >
| > > -----Original Message-----
| > > From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
| > > Behalf Of Mike Freeman
| > > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:21 PM
| > > To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
| > > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind
| > > CommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
| > >
| > > If the case is appealed as it most assuredly will be, the appeal will
win.
| > > And what will have been gained? Nothing. And much could be lost if the
| > > decision rejecting the lawsuit on appeal is broader and abolishes some
of
| > > the protections we now have under Section 504, the underlying statue.
| > >
| > > Moreover, under most circumstances in which someone would be cheated,
| > > cashiers' drawers must balance at the end of the day. I deny the
| >implication
| > > that numerous blind persons have been ripped off.
| > >
| > > I wouldn't object if currency were modified for other reasons. But
| >blindness
| > > certainly is not a sufficient reason IMO to do so.
| > >
| > > Mike
| > >
| > > ----- Original Message -----
| > > From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
| > > To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
| > > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:00 PM
| > > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments
| > > onFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
| > >
| > >
| > > Hello,
| > > Dr. Mauer and others are correct in saying that there are many more
| > > important issues like jobs and access to printed material that touch
the
| > > blind community. But this doesn't mean that having paper money is not
| > > important. I've been working for years now. Before I had a job, I
still
| >had
| > > to know how to tell what little money I did have. Once I retire the
same
| > > will be true. There is no question, money is very important all over
the
| > > world let alone the u.s. and it would be helpful to be able to know
right
| > > away what bill you are getting.
| > > So often, I've been assisted by people who are from other countries.
The
| > > British for example are shocked that all of our paper money is the
same
| > > size. And they want to know how do I know someone is not cheating me.
Even
| > > my friends and assistants want to know how I know what paper money I
have.
| > > And it would be great if I didn't have to go through various steps and
| > > stages to fold money in different ways so I would know this is a
twenty or
| > > ten etc.
| > > Quite frankly, I'm glad that the judge recognized that being able to
know
| > > what a bill is by feel if not by sight is an important thing.
| > > -----Original Message-----
| > > From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
| > > Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
| > > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:50 PM
| > > To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
| > > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
| > > FederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
| > >
| > > It's times like this that I'm reminded why I have nothing to do with
the
| > > federation. I'm certainly not saying everyone in the federation is
this
| >way,
| > > but you have to wonder where some of this logic comes from.
| > > ----- Original Message -----
| > > From: "Will Smith" <wilsmith at iglou.com>
| > > To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
| > > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:30 PM
| > > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
| >Federal
| > > Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > I continue to marvel at the positions NFB top brass take on things
like
| > > distinct money markings or shapes.
| > >
| > > I guess if you have enough power and position then money just doesnt
| >matter
| > > much.
| > >
| > > Will
| > > wilsmith at iglou.com
| > > On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Reinhard Stebner
| > > wrote:
| > >
| > > > I really do not understand the NFB's stand on this. I think having
| > > > money that I can tell at a glance what it is makes me more
independent
| > > > from machines, fraud and enables me to be more independent. How do
| > > > other blind people think about this?
| > > >
| > > > -----Original Message-----
| > > > From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
| > > > On Behalf Of David Andrews
| > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:53 PM
| > > > To: dtb-talk at nfbnet.org; dandrews at visi.com;
diabetes-talk at nfbnet.org;
| > > > promotion-technology at nfbnet.org; " nabs-l"@nfbnet.org; "
| > > nfbcs"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org; nfb-announce at nfbnet.org; " nfbmo"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > nfb-science at nfbnet.org; " journalists"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org; blindkid at nfbnet.org; napub at nfbnet.org;
| > > > nabop at nfbnet.org; blparent at nfbnet.org; cabs-talk at nfbnet.org; "
| > > > nfb-reno-l"@nfbnet.org; nfb-river-city at nfbnet.org; "
| > > > nfb-sf"@nfbnet.org; nfbc-info at nfbnet.org; nfbofncp at nfbnet.org;
| > > > trainer-talk at nfbnet.org; " electronics-talk"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > nfb-talk at nfbnet.org; " tops-2005"@nfbnet.org; "
rocketon"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > nopbc-board at nfbnet.org; nfb-newsline-sponsors at nfbnet.org;
| > > > nfb-imagination-fund at nfbnet.org; " new-horizons"@nfbnet.org; "
| > > > ncbys"@nfbnet.org;
| > > nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org;
| > > > gama-summit at nfbnet.org; nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org; nfb-idaho at nfbnet.org;
| > > > mt-blind at nfbnet.org; " cabs"@nfbnet.org; colorado-talk at nfbnet.org; "
| > > > nfbaz-talk"@nfbnet.org; mabs at nfbnet.org; oabs at nfbnet.org;
| > > > greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org; " nfbf-l"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > 4alabama at nfbnet.org; " vabs"@nfbnet.org; " mn-abs"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org; " mi-abs"@nfbnet.org; il-talk at nfbnet.org;
| > > > iabs-talk at nfbnet.org; " nebraska-students"@nfbnet.org; "
| > > > tn-talk"@nfbnet.org;
| > > vendtalk at nfbnet.org;
| > > > " nagdu"@nfbnet.org; " nyagdu"@nfbnet.org; " ag-eq"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > arizona-students at nfbnet.org; " nfb-kzoo"@nfbnet.org; "
| > > > reader-users"@nfbnet.org; nabentre at nfbnet.org; " nfbj"@nfbnet.org; "
| > > > nfb-db"@nfbnet.org; nfb-fundraising at nfbnet.org; "
| > > faith-talk"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > " lions-ed"@nfbnet.org; nfb-lions at nfbnet.org; "
| > > ncme-mentoring"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > " nfbwv-talk"@nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org;
nfb-editors at nfbnet.org;
| > > > " humanser"@nfbnet.org; rehab at nfbnet.org; nfbpnotk at nfbnet.org; "
| > > > musictlk"@nfbnet.org; " nosb"@nfbnet.org; stylist at nfbnet.org; "
| > > > sportsandrec"@nfbnet.org; " nobe-l"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > travelandtourism at nfbnet.org; " teachvib"@nfbnet.org; "
| > > nfb-web"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > ccb-alumni at nfbnet.org; " la-students"@nfbnet.org; "
| > > > nfb-cars"@nfbnet.org; nfb-hi at nfbnet.org; " nfbkabs"@nfbnet.org; "
| > > > nfbkpbc"@nfbnet.org; nfbofncp at nfbnet.org; " tabs"@nfbnet.org;
| > > > dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
| > > > Subject: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
| > > > Federal Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
| > > >
| > > > National Federation of the Blind Comments
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > on Federal Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > Views Effort as Dangerously Misguided
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > Baltimore, Maryland (November 29, 2006): The National Federation of
| > > > the Blind, the largest organization of blind persons in America and
| > > > known as the voice of the nation's blind, criticized as dangerously
| > > > misguided a federal court ruling saying that the design of U.S.
| > > > currency discriminates against the blind.
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
| > > > said: "The blind need jobs and real opportunities to earn money, not
| > > > feel-good gimmicks that misinform the public about our capabilities.
| > > > Blind people transact business with paper money every day. This
| > > > ruling puts a roadblock in the way of solving the real problem,
which
| > > > is the seventy percent unemployment rate among working-age blind
| > > > Americans that severely limits our access to cash. The ruling will
do
| > > > nothing to alleviate that situation; in fact, it seriously endangers
| > > > the ability of the blind to get jobs and participate fully in
society.
| > > > It argues that the blind cannot handle currency or documents in the
| > > > workplace and that virtually everything must be modified for the use
| > > > of the blind. An employer who believes that every piece of printed
| > > > material in the workplace must be specially designed so that the
blind
| > > > can read it will have a strong incentive not to hire a blind
person."
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > Maurer went on to enumerate the real needs for access to information
| > > > by the blind and made a distinction between those needs and the
issue
| > > > of identifying currency. "Access to information of all kinds, such
as
| > > > that contained on Internet Web sites and in the press, is certainly
| > > > critical to the ability of the blind to become productive members of
| > > > society. Blind students need educational materials in Braille and
| > > > other alternative formats so that they can prepare for employment
and
| > > > ultimately earn an income for themselves and their families. Given
| > > > the urgent need for access to the kind of information that is
required
| > > > for success in America's information economy, the matter of
| > > > identifying the denominations of paper bills is of relatively little
| > > > concern."
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > Blind people traditionally identify paper currency by folding bills
of
| > > > different denominations in different ways. "In reality, blind
people
| > > > do not routinely find that we have been short-changed," Maurer
| > > > commented. Machines are readily available to identify paper money
for
| > > > blind people who run businesses or handle large amounts of cash.
| > > > "Essentially, the United States Treasury has been ordered by the
| > > > courts to come up with a solution for a nonexistent problem," Maurer
| > > > said.
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > The National Federation of the Blind believes that with training and
| > > > opportunity, blind people can compete in the world with only minor
| > > > modifications. The American Council of the Blind, which brought the
| > > > lawsuit against the United States Treasury, promotes the view that
the
| > > > blind are unable to compete unless the world is modified
dramatically
| > > > and specifically for blind people, and that the blind must be made
| > > > objects of care and pity rather than equal participants in society.
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > John G. Par? Jr.
| > > > Director of Public Relations
| > > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
| > > > 1800 Johnson Street
| > > > Baltimore, Maryland 21230
| > > > Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2371
| > > > Cell phone: (410) 913-3912
| > > > Fax: (410) 685-5653
| > > > Email: jpare at nfb.org
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > _______________________________________________
| > > > gui-talk mailing list
| > > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
| > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > _______________________________________________
| > > > gui-talk mailing list
| > > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
| > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
| > > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
| >--
| > > ----
| > >
| > >
| > > > _______________________________________________
| > > > gui-talk mailing list
| > > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
| > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
| > > >
| > >
| > > _______________________________________________
| > > gui-talk mailing list
| > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
| > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
| > >
| > > _______________________________________________
| > > gui-talk mailing list
| > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
| > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
| > >
| > >
| > > _______________________________________________
| > > gui-talk mailing list
| > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
| > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
| > >
| > > _______________________________________________
| > > gui-talk mailing list
| > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
| > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
| > >
| > >
| > > _______________________________________________
| > > gui-talk mailing list
| > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
| > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
| > >
| > > --
| > > Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org
| > > SSB + BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
| >http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
| > > "Never does the human soul appear so strong as when it foregoes
| > > revenge, and dares forgive an injury." --E. H. Chapin
| > > _______________________________________________
| > > gui-talk mailing list
| > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
| > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
| >
| >_______________________________________________
| >gui-talk mailing list
| >gui-talk at nfbnet.org
| >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
| >
| >
| >
| >--
| >No virus found in this incoming message.
| >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
| >Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.15.3/562 - Release Date: 12/1/2006
| >1:12 PM
| >
| >_______________________________________________
| >gui-talk mailing list
| >gui-talk at nfbnet.org
| >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
| >
| >
| >
| >--
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| >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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| >12/1/2006 1:12 PM
| >
| >
| >_______________________________________________
| >gui-talk mailing list
| >gui-talk at nfbnet.org
| >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
|
| David Andrews and white cane Harry.
|
|
| _______________________________________________
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