[gui-talk] NFB structure questions
Joel Deutsch
jdeutsch at dslextreme.com
Sat Dec 2 09:56:42 CST 2006
Doug,
Thanks very much for the detailed description of the process,, notwithstanding the dismissal of same to which your post is a direct response. All I had to represent the process to me heretofore was one statement that "they publish the resolutions," which seemed as if I'd suggested that the process was covert and not transparent, which I'd never said or implied, and then someone else confessing that if she disagreed with an item of NFB policy, she kept her disagreement to herself, which sounded as if there could be punitive consequences for expressing such disagreement.
So thanks for a fuller description of the process. I of course couldn't guess at the politics that lie behind a session on the convention floor, but I can clearly see now that there's a participatory stage to take into account, finally.
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Lee
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] NFB structure questions
I hope this post is helpful to Joel, besides being an answer to the
below message.
First, the Resolutions Committee can not pass a resolution. It can
only recommend to the entire convention that a resolution be passed.
It is then up to the Convention, all usually 2,500 members present,
to decide whether to pass it or not.
Second, debate over resolutions is most certainly real, and even a
single voice can make a difference and cause a resolution to pass
or fail. I personally saw this happen recently at a convention.
There was a person in attendance who was the only person from her
state at the convention. Every resolution comes to the whole
convention floor for a vote, and this one resolution did so and
caused quite a controversy of a discussion. The first voice vote,
taken of the entire convention, was unclear, so a role call was
done, in which each state gets a vote. States have delegates,
elected by state affiliate members, to handle just this kind of
situation. The woman I refer to was her state's delegate and,
having no one to poll at the time since she was alone, she cast her
own vote with a loud, reverberating "NO!" when the time came. The
actual vote on the floor was to decide whether to withdraw the
resolution, and the vote was a tie. A tie vote does not pass a
motion, so the motion to withdraw the resolution failed, and the
resolution then went to a vote of pass or do not pass. Again, the
voice vote was unclear, so a second role call vote was taken. This
vote passed by one vote. I am not making this up; I was there in
person to witness this. If this is not demonstrative enough of the
fact that a person in the NFB can cast a meaningful vote and be
heard, I don't know what is.
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 08:52:42PM -0600, Arliedog wrote:
In the three conventions I attended the debate was a joke. what the leaders
wanted the leaders got. They hand picked the resolution commitee to insure
that. leaders
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seville Allen" <ceoallen at erols.com>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 8:47 PM
Subject: Re:
[gui-talk]NationalFederationoftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourtRuling on U.S.
Currency
> Resolutions are debated and voted on at convention before they are
> published.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of George and Pamela Dominguez
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:38 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk]
> NationalFederationoftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourtRuling on U.S. Currency
>
> After the resolutions are drafted, they are brought to the convention and
> we
> vote on them. Pam.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joel Deutsch" <jdeutsch at dslextreme.com>
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 7:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk]
> NationalFederationoftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourtRuling on U.S. Currency
>
>
>> Seville,
>>
>> Thanks. First,I said nothing at all about ACB or any other organization.
> What made you imagine I had? And policy is made by "resolution," and any
> member who wants to know what it is can read about it as a fait accomplis,
> about which they can do nothing? Does this mean the rulings are published
> in order to give membership the chance to review and vote on it, or appeal
> it? That doesn't sound like what you mean. You just said the ruling
> board
> makes decisions and then publishes them. That's what they do in an
> authoritarian country, make laws and then announce what they are.
>>
>> Again, I didn't say a thin about the ACB. I only asked if the NFB had a
> participatory process. So far, what you say leads me to conclude that it
> must not.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Seville Allen
>> To: 'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National
> FederationoftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourtRuling on U.S. Currency
>>
>>
>> NFB policy is made by resolution at national convention. Our elected
>> officials are part of that resolution process. With regard to the rest
>> of
>> your questions, no, NFB structure is different from that of ACB as
> described
>> in your questions.
>> Your original question, as I interpreted it, leaving out a discussion of
> the
>> structure of the two organizations, regarded how NFB makes policy, and
>> policy is made at national convention through the resolution process
>> which
>> is published and known to all members who want to know it.
>> I'm not getting into a debate about organizational structure, I believe
>> that piece of your questioning is baiting and I'm not getting into that.
> I
>> believe your original question regarding policy is what I'll stuck with
>> here.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 4:05 PM
>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation
>> oftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourtRuling on U.S. Currency
>>
>> Seville,
>>
>> That's not quite responsive to the intent of my question. So let me ask
> two
>> questions.
>>
>> 1. What individual or committee is it that makes and announces such
> policy
>> decisions?
>> 2. Is the membership consulted by vote or plebescite prior to the
>> setting
>> of each such decision?
>> 3. Whether there's membership input or not, are the people described by
>> question 1 elected officers of the organization wwith limited terms of
>> office between election cycles? Or are they hired or appointed by
> someone,
>> for indefinite terms?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Seville Allen
>> To: 'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation
> oftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourt
>> Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>>
>> What happens is the policy is changed through our resolution process
>> which
>> is how our NFB policy is made.
>> One can look at resolutions through the years as they are posted on the
> NFB
>> website.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:20 PM
>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of
>> theBlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>> As an outsider to the NFB, I have to ask a basic thing: When a lot of
>> members disagree with enough policy positions of the NFB leadership, are
>> there periodic nationwide elections where two or more candidates run for
>> the top posts, and new leadership can be voted in? Or are the top
> positions
>> more like job appointments of indefinite duration?
>>
>> Thanks. I know it's a really basic question about organizational
> structure,
>> but I've heard about national conventions and so forth, but never about
>> elections of any sort.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> nd ndefniite to wish for a idifferent olicty p9o
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: George and Pamela Dominguez
>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
>> BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>>
>> As long as we support the NFB, I don't think they can demand that we
>> agree
>> with every single thing. After all, we are individuals who belong to an
>> organization of people who are blind. I don't agree with everything all
> the
>> way, but when I don't, I don't make a fuss. I just keep it to myself if
>> I
>> can't get somebody to convince me why I should change my mind. I still
>> believe in the principles of the NFB, and I'm glad we have it. Pam.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Doug Lee" <dgl at dlee.org>
>> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 2:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
>> BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>>
>> > I must giggle at this, then hesitantly and hopefully briefly reply:
>> >
>> > I think we all agree that inaccessible computers deny us jobs.
>> > Computers and money do have in common the trait of being hard to live
>> > without these days. However, whereas I'm sure a list of jobs
>> > impossible without computer access would fall together in a hurry on
>> > the slightest public prompting, I doubt a list of jobs impossible
>> > without tactily identifiable money would so easily form. Witness the
>> > existence of this very mailing list to address the need to make
>> > computers accessible, and as far as I know, the profound absence of
>> > such a list for the problems we have handling money. Money-Talk, or
>> > would that be Money-Talks? Hmm. <grin>
>> >
>> > My personal view, in case anyone wants it: I would like identifiable
>> > money, but I believe it will be extremely expensive to make that
>> > happen unless someone manages a way to do it that requires no
>> > modification to the myriad money readers out there--laundry machines,
>> > change machines, soda machines, etc. I believe the money modification
>> > should have been made when other changes were being made to reduce
>> > counterfitting, and I even think the NFB defended this position at the
>> > time. I think the strongest argument against changing money for blind
>> > people is not what it will make people think of blindness, but as Mike
>> > said, what danger we place current laws in by trying to use them to
>> > accomplish such a mountainous task. Were it me, I would not spend my
>> > money fighting this, but I would neither go to the barricades and
>> > assert it as necessary. Finally, I hope the outcome of this is,
>> > ultimately, a change in US money, even if it occurs as part of
>> > something else, and even if not immediately.
>> >
>> > Disclaimer, if that's what it is: I am an NFB member and have been
>> > since about 1984. If I disagree with an NFB policy, I know where to
>> > go to speak my mind.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:21:21AM -0600, jaybee wrote:
>> > There's just as little need to change the currency to make it
>> > accessible
>> as
>> > there is to change the computer to make it accessible. Regards, Jesse
>> > "To err is human; to forgive divine (Alexander Pope, 1688.")
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
>> > To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:47 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
>> > BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> >
>> >
>> > Well glad you know how the court things before there is ever any oral
>> > argument. It's strange that we ask that printed materials be put in
>> > accessible format such as braille electronic files or tape. Or we ask
> that
>> > the bus system be made more accessible so we can know when our stops
>> > are
>> > coming or that elevators have braille and large print on them so we can
>> know
>> > what floor we're getting off of. When there is an nfb convention, the
>> rooms
>> > are marked in braille. Why because we are blind and cannot see to read
>> > print. But when it comes to one of the most important things in the
> world,
>> > knowing what money you have the instant its given to you, oh that's not
> a
>> > good thing because of blindness.
>> > The reason why people are not cheated on a wide scale basis is because
> we
>> > take all of these extra steps that sighted people never have to do to
>> avoid
>> > being cheated. And I've heard more than a few instances of where people
>> have
>> > accidentally given a wrong bill and lost a lot of money. I can say I'm
> not
>> > one of them. But I'm still glad the judge realizes that this is
> important.
>> > Quite frankly if the u.s. supreme court could fool the criminal defense
>> bar
>> > with the crawford decision two years ago, don't be so sure that the
>> judge's
>> > decision will be reversed on appeal.
>> >
>> > s
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
>> > Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:21 PM
>> > To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind
>> > CommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> >
>> > If the case is appealed as it most assuredly will be, the appeal will
> win.
>> > And what will have been gained? Nothing. And much could be lost if the
>> > decision rejecting the lawsuit on appeal is broader and abolishes some
> of
>> > the protections we now have under Section 504, the underlying statue.
>> >
>> > Moreover, under most circumstances in which someone would be cheated,
>> > cashiers' drawers must balance at the end of the day. I deny the
>> implication
>> > that numerous blind persons have been ripped off.
>> >
>> > I wouldn't object if currency were modified for other reasons. But
>> blindness
>> > certainly is not a sufficient reason IMO to do so.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
>> > To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:00 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments
>> > onFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> > Dr. Mauer and others are correct in saying that there are many more
>> > important issues like jobs and access to printed material that touch
>> > the
>> > blind community. But this doesn't mean that having paper money is not
>> > important. I've been working for years now. Before I had a job, I still
>> had
>> > to know how to tell what little money I did have. Once I retire the
>> > same
>> > will be true. There is no question, money is very important all over
>> > the
>> > world let alone the u.s. and it would be helpful to be able to know
> right
>> > away what bill you are getting.
>> > So often, I've been assisted by people who are from other countries.
>> > The
>> > British for example are shocked that all of our paper money is the same
>> > size. And they want to know how do I know someone is not cheating me.
> Even
>> > my friends and assistants want to know how I know what paper money I
> have.
>> > And it would be great if I didn't have to go through various steps and
>> > stages to fold money in different ways so I would know this is a twenty
> or
>> > ten etc.
>> > Quite frankly, I'm glad that the judge recognized that being able to
> know
>> > what a bill is by feel if not by sight is an important thing.
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
>> > Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:50 PM
>> > To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
>> > FederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> >
>> > It's times like this that I'm reminded why I have nothing to do with
>> > the
>> > federation. I'm certainly not saying everyone in the federation is this
>> way,
>> > but you have to wonder where some of this logic comes from.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Will Smith" <wilsmith at iglou.com>
>> > To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:30 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
>> Federal
>> > Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I continue to marvel at the positions NFB top brass take on things like
>> > distinct money markings or shapes.
>> >
>> > I guess if you have enough power and position then money just doesnt
>> matter
>> > much.
>> >
>> > Will
>> > wilsmith at iglou.com
>> > On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Reinhard Stebner
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > I really do not understand the NFB's stand on this. I think having
>> > > money that I can tell at a glance what it is makes me more
>> > > independent
>> > > from machines, fraud and enables me to be more independent. How do
>> > > other blind people think about this?
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> > > [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> > > On Behalf Of David Andrews
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:53 PM
>> > > To: dtb-talk at nfbnet.org; dandrews at visi.com; diabetes-talk at nfbnet.org;
>> > > promotion-technology at nfbnet.org; " nabs-l"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > nfbcs"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org; nfb-announce at nfbnet.org; " nfbmo"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > nfb-science at nfbnet.org; " journalists"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org; blindkid at nfbnet.org; napub at nfbnet.org;
>> > > nabop at nfbnet.org; blparent at nfbnet.org; cabs-talk at nfbnet.org; "
>> > > nfb-reno-l"@nfbnet.org; nfb-river-city at nfbnet.org; "
>> > > nfb-sf"@nfbnet.org; nfbc-info at nfbnet.org; nfbofncp at nfbnet.org;
>> > > trainer-talk at nfbnet.org; " electronics-talk"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > nfb-talk at nfbnet.org; " tops-2005"@nfbnet.org; " rocketon"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > nopbc-board at nfbnet.org; nfb-newsline-sponsors at nfbnet.org;
>> > > nfb-imagination-fund at nfbnet.org; " new-horizons"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > > ncbys"@nfbnet.org;
>> > nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org;
>> > > gama-summit at nfbnet.org; nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org; nfb-idaho at nfbnet.org;
>> > > mt-blind at nfbnet.org; " cabs"@nfbnet.org; colorado-talk at nfbnet.org; "
>> > > nfbaz-talk"@nfbnet.org; mabs at nfbnet.org; oabs at nfbnet.org;
>> > > greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org; " nfbf-l"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > 4alabama at nfbnet.org; " vabs"@nfbnet.org; " mn-abs"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org; " mi-abs"@nfbnet.org; il-talk at nfbnet.org;
>> > > iabs-talk at nfbnet.org; " nebraska-students"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > > tn-talk"@nfbnet.org;
>> > vendtalk at nfbnet.org;
>> > > " nagdu"@nfbnet.org; " nyagdu"@nfbnet.org; " ag-eq"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > arizona-students at nfbnet.org; " nfb-kzoo"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > > reader-users"@nfbnet.org; nabentre at nfbnet.org; " nfbj"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > > nfb-db"@nfbnet.org; nfb-fundraising at nfbnet.org; "
>> > faith-talk"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > " lions-ed"@nfbnet.org; nfb-lions at nfbnet.org; "
>> > ncme-mentoring"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > " nfbwv-talk"@nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org;
>> > > nfb-editors at nfbnet.org;
>> > > " humanser"@nfbnet.org; rehab at nfbnet.org; nfbpnotk at nfbnet.org; "
>> > > musictlk"@nfbnet.org; " nosb"@nfbnet.org; stylist at nfbnet.org; "
>> > > sportsandrec"@nfbnet.org; " nobe-l"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > travelandtourism at nfbnet.org; " teachvib"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > nfb-web"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > ccb-alumni at nfbnet.org; " la-students"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > > nfb-cars"@nfbnet.org; nfb-hi at nfbnet.org; " nfbkabs"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > > nfbkpbc"@nfbnet.org; nfbofncp at nfbnet.org; " tabs"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > > Subject: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
>> > > Federal Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> > >
>> > > National Federation of the Blind Comments
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > on Federal Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Views Effort as Dangerously Misguided
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Baltimore, Maryland (November 29, 2006): The National Federation of
>> > > the Blind, the largest organization of blind persons in America and
>> > > known as the voice of the nation's blind, criticized as dangerously
>> > > misguided a federal court ruling saying that the design of U.S.
>> > > currency discriminates against the blind.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>> > > said: "The blind need jobs and real opportunities to earn money, not
>> > > feel-good gimmicks that misinform the public about our capabilities.
>> > > Blind people transact business with paper money every day. This
>> > > ruling puts a roadblock in the way of solving the real problem, which
>> > > is the seventy percent unemployment rate among working-age blind
>> > > Americans that severely limits our access to cash. The ruling will
>> > > do
>> > > nothing to alleviate that situation; in fact, it seriously endangers
>> > > the ability of the blind to get jobs and participate fully in
>> > > society.
>> > > It argues that the blind cannot handle currency or documents in the
>> > > workplace and that virtually everything must be modified for the use
>> > > of the blind. An employer who believes that every piece of printed
>> > > material in the workplace must be specially designed so that the
>> > > blind
>> > > can read it will have a strong incentive not to hire a blind person."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Maurer went on to enumerate the real needs for access to information
>> > > by the blind and made a distinction between those needs and the issue
>> > > of identifying currency. "Access to information of all kinds, such
>> > > as
>> > > that contained on Internet Web sites and in the press, is certainly
>> > > critical to the ability of the blind to become productive members of
>> > > society. Blind students need educational materials in Braille and
>> > > other alternative formats so that they can prepare for employment and
>> > > ultimately earn an income for themselves and their families. Given
>> > > the urgent need for access to the kind of information that is
>> > > required
>> > > for success in America's information economy, the matter of
>> > > identifying the denominations of paper bills is of relatively little
>> > > concern."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Blind people traditionally identify paper currency by folding bills
>> > > of
>> > > different denominations in different ways. "In reality, blind people
>> > > do not routinely find that we have been short-changed," Maurer
>> > > commented. Machines are readily available to identify paper money
>> > > for
>> > > blind people who run businesses or handle large amounts of cash.
>> > > "Essentially, the United States Treasury has been ordered by the
>> > > courts to come up with a solution for a nonexistent problem," Maurer
>> > > said.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The National Federation of the Blind believes that with training and
>> > > opportunity, blind people can compete in the world with only minor
>> > > modifications. The American Council of the Blind, which brought the
>> > > lawsuit against the United States Treasury, promotes the view that
>> > > the
>> > > blind are unable to compete unless the world is modified dramatically
>> > > and specifically for blind people, and that the blind must be made
>> > > objects of care and pity rather than equal participants in society.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > John G. Par? Jr.
>> > > Director of Public Relations
>> > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
>> > > 1800 Johnson Street
>> > > Baltimore, Maryland 21230
>> > > Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2371
>> > > Cell phone: (410) 913-3912
>> > > Fax: (410) 685-5653
>> > > Email: jpare at nfb.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > gui-talk mailing list
>> > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > gui-talk mailing list
>> > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> > ----
>> >
>> >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > gui-talk mailing list
>> > > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> > >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gui-talk mailing list
>> > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gui-talk mailing list
>> > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gui-talk mailing list
>> > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gui-talk mailing list
>> > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gui-talk mailing list
>> > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> >
>> > --
>> > Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org
>> > SSB + BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
>> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>> > "Never does the human soul appear so strong as when it foregoes
>> > revenge, and dares forgive an injury." --E. H. Chapin
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gui-talk mailing list
>> > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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(08/29/02)
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-------------- next part --------------
Doug,
Thanks very much for the detailed description of the process,, notwithstanding the dismissal of same to which your post is a direct response. All I had to represent the process to me heretofore was one statement that "they publish the resolutions," which seemed as if I'd suggested that the process was covert and not transparent, which I'd never said or implied, and then someone else confessing that if she disagreed with an item of NFB policy, she kept her disagreement to herself, which sounded as if there could be punitive consequences for expressing such disagreement.
So thanks for a fuller description of the process. I of course couldn't guess at the politics that lie behind a session on the convention floor, but I can clearly see now that there's a participatory stage to take into account, finally.
----- Original Message -----
From:
mailto:dgl at dlee.org Doug Lee
To:
mailto:gui-talk at nfbnet.org NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Sent:
Saturday, December 02, 2006 6:10 AM
Subject:
Re: [gui-talk] NFB structure questions
I hope this post is helpful to Joel, besides being an answer to the
below message.
First, the Resolutions Committee can not pass a resolution. It can
only recommend to the entire convention that a resolution be passed.
It is then up to the Convention, all usually 2,500 members present,
to decide whether to pass it or not.
Second, debate over resolutions is most certainly real, and even a
single voice can make a difference and cause a resolution to pass
or fail. I personally saw this happen recently at a convention.
There was a person in attendance who was the only person from her
state at the convention. Every resolution comes to the whole
convention floor for a vote, and this one resolution did so and
caused quite a controversy of a discussion. The first voice vote,
taken of the entire convention, was unclear, so a role call was
done, in which each state gets a vote. States have delegates,
elected by state affiliate members, to handle just this kind of
situation. The woman I refer to was her state's delegate and,
having no one to poll at the time since she was alone, she cast her
own vote with a loud, reverberating "NO!" when the time came. The
actual vote on the floor was to decide whether to withdraw the
resolution, and the vote was a tie. A tie vote does not pass a
motion, so the motion to withdraw the resolution failed, and the
resolution then went to a vote of pass or do not pass. Again, the
voice vote was unclear, so a second role call vote was taken. This
vote passed by one vote. I am not making this up; I was there in
person to witness this. If this is not demonstrative enough of the
fact that a person in the NFB can cast a meaningful vote and be
heard, I don't know what is.
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 08:52:42PM -0600, Arliedog wrote:
In the three conventions I attended the debate was a joke. what the leaders
wanted the leaders got. They hand picked the resolution commitee to insure
that. leaders
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seville Allen" < mailto:ceoallen at erols.com ceoallen at erols.com
>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" < mailto:gui-talk at nfbnet.org gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 8:47 PM
Subject: Re:
[gui-talk]NationalFederationoftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourtRuling on U.S.
Currency
> Resolutions are debated and voted on at convention before they are
> published.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of George and Pamela Dominguez
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:38 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk]
> NationalFederationoftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourtRuling on U.S. Currency
>
> After the resolutions are drafted, they are brought to the convention and
> we
> vote on them. Pam.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joel Deutsch" < mailto:jdeutsch at dslextreme.com jdeutsch at dslextreme.com
>
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" < mailto:gui-talk at nfbnet.org gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 7:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk]
> NationalFederationoftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourtRuling on U.S. Currency
>
>
>> Seville,
>>
>> Thanks. First,I said nothing at all about ACB or any other organization.
> What made you imagine I had? And policy is made by "resolution," and any
> member who wants to know what it is can read about it as a fait accomplis,
> about which they can do nothing? Does this mean the rulings are published
> in order to give membership the chance to review and vote on it, or appeal
> it? That doesn't sound like what you mean. You just said the ruling
> board
> makes decisions and then publishes them. That's what they do in an
> authoritarian country, make laws and then announce what they are.
>>
>> Again, I didn't say a thin about the ACB. I only asked if the NFB had a
> participatory process. So far, what you say leads me to conclude that it
> must not.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Seville Allen
>> To: 'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National
> FederationoftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourtRuling on U.S. Currency
>>
>>
>> NFB policy is made by resolution at national convention. Our elected
>> officials are part of that resolution process. With regard to the rest
>> of
>> your questions, no, NFB structure is different from that of ACB as
> described
>> in your questions.
>> Your original question, as I interpreted it, leaving out a discussion of
> the
>> structure of the two organizations, regarded how NFB makes policy, and
>> policy is made at national convention through the resolution process
>> which
>> is published and known to all members who want to know it.
>> I'm not getting into a debate about organizational structure, I believe
>> that piece of your questioning is baiting and I'm not getting into that.
> I
>> believe your original question regarding policy is what I'll stuck with
>> here.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 4:05 PM
>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation
>> oftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourtRuling on U.S. Currency
>>
>> Seville,
>>
>> That's not quite responsive to the intent of my question. So let me ask
> two
>> questions.
>>
>> 1. What individual or committee is it that makes and announces such
> policy
>> decisions?
>> 2. Is the membership consulted by vote or plebescite prior to the
>> setting
>> of each such decision?
>> 3. Whether there's membership input or not, are the people described by
>> question 1 elected officers of the organization wwith limited terms of
>> office between election cycles? Or are they hired or appointed by
> someone,
>> for indefinite terms?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Seville Allen
>> To: 'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation
> oftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourt
>> Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>>
>> What happens is the policy is changed through our resolution process
>> which
>> is how our NFB policy is made.
>> One can look at resolutions through the years as they are posted on the
> NFB
>> website.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:20 PM
>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of
>> theBlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>> As an outsider to the NFB, I have to ask a basic thing: When a lot of
>> members disagree with enough policy positions of the NFB leadership, are
>> there periodic nationwide elections where two or more candidates run for
>> the top posts, and new leadership can be voted in? Or are the top
> positions
>> more like job appointments of indefinite duration?
>>
>> Thanks. I know it's a really basic question about organizational
> structure,
>> but I've heard about national conventions and so forth, but never about
>> elections of any sort.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> nd ndefniite to wish for a idifferent olicty p9o
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: George and Pamela Dominguez
>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
>> BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>>
>> As long as we support the NFB, I don't think they can demand that we
>> agree
>> with every single thing. After all, we are individuals who belong to an
>> organization of people who are blind. I don't agree with everything all
> the
>> way, but when I don't, I don't make a fuss. I just keep it to myself if
>> I
>> can't get somebody to convince me why I should change my mind. I still
>> believe in the principles of the NFB, and I'm glad we have it. Pam.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Doug Lee" < mailto:dgl at dlee.org dgl at dlee.org
>
>> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" < mailto:gui-talk at nfbnet.org gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 2:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
>> BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>>
>> > I must giggle at this, then hesitantly and hopefully briefly reply:
>> >
>> > I think we all agree that inaccessible computers deny us jobs.
>> > Computers and money do have in common the trait of being hard to live
>> > without these days. However, whereas I'm sure a list of jobs
>> > impossible without computer access would fall together in a hurry on
>> > the slightest public prompting, I doubt a list of jobs impossible
>> > without tactily identifiable money would so easily form. Witness the
>> > existence of this very mailing list to address the need to make
>> > computers accessible, and as far as I know, the profound absence of
>> > such a list for the problems we have handling money. Money-Talk, or
>> > would that be Money-Talks? Hmm. <grin>
>> >
>> > My personal view, in case anyone wants it: I would like identifiable
>> > money, but I believe it will be extremely expensive to make that
>> > happen unless someone manages a way to do it that requires no
>> > modification to the myriad money readers out there--laundry machines,
>> > change machines, soda machines, etc. I believe the money modification
>> > should have been made when other changes were being made to reduce
>> > counterfitting, and I even think the NFB defended this position at the
>> > time. I think the strongest argument against changing money for blind
>> > people is not what it will make people think of blindness, but as Mike
>> > said, what danger we place current laws in by trying to use them to
>> > accomplish such a mountainous task. Were it me, I would not spend my
>> > money fighting this, but I would neither go to the barricades and
>> > assert it as necessary. Finally, I hope the outcome of this is,
>> > ultimately, a change in US money, even if it occurs as part of
>> > something else, and even if not immediately.
>> >
>> > Disclaimer, if that's what it is: I am an NFB member and have been
>> > since about 1984. If I disagree with an NFB policy, I know where to
>> > go to speak my mind.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:21:21AM -0600, jaybee wrote:
>> > There's just as little need to change the currency to make it
>> > accessible
>> as
>> > there is to change the computer to make it accessible. Regards, Jesse
>> > "To err is human; to forgive divine (Alexander Pope, 1688.")
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "denise avant" < mailto:dravant at ameritech.net dravant at ameritech.net
>
>> > To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" < mailto:gui-talk at nfbnet.org gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:47 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
>> > BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> >
>> >
>> > Well glad you know how the court things before there is ever any oral
>> > argument. It's strange that we ask that printed materials be put in
>> > accessible format such as braille electronic files or tape. Or we ask
> that
>> > the bus system be made more accessible so we can know when our stops
>> > are
>> > coming or that elevators have braille and large print on them so we can
>> know
>> > what floor we're getting off of. When there is an nfb convention, the
>> rooms
>> > are marked in braille. Why because we are blind and cannot see to read
>> > print. But when it comes to one of the most important things in the
> world,
>> > knowing what money you have the instant its given to you, oh that's not
> a
>> > good thing because of blindness.
>> > The reason why people are not cheated on a wide scale basis is because
> we
>> > take all of these extra steps that sighted people never have to do to
>> avoid
>> > being cheated. And I've heard more than a few instances of where people
>> have
>> > accidentally given a wrong bill and lost a lot of money. I can say I'm
> not
>> > one of them. But I'm still glad the judge realizes that this is
> important.
>> > Quite frankly if the u.s. supreme court could fool the criminal defense
>> bar
>> > with the crawford decision two years ago, don't be so sure that the
>> judge's
>> > decision will be reversed on appeal.
>> >
>> > s
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
>> > Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:21 PM
>> > To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind
>> > CommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> >
>> > If the case is appealed as it most assuredly will be, the appeal will
> win.
>> > And what will have been gained? Nothing. And much could be lost if the
>> > decision rejecting the lawsuit on appeal is broader and abolishes some
> of
>> > the protections we now have under Section 504, the underlying statue.
>> >
>> > Moreover, under most circumstances in which someone would be cheated,
>> > cashiers' drawers must balance at the end of the day. I deny the
>> implication
>> > that numerous blind persons have been ripped off.
>> >
>> > I wouldn't object if currency were modified for other reasons. But
>> blindness
>> > certainly is not a sufficient reason IMO to do so.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "denise avant" < mailto:dravant at ameritech.net dravant at ameritech.net
>
>> > To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" < mailto:gui-talk at nfbnet.org gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:00 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments
>> > onFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> > Dr. Mauer and others are correct in saying that there are many more
>> > important issues like jobs and access to printed material that touch
>> > the
>> > blind community. But this doesn't mean that having paper money is not
>> > important. I've been working for years now. Before I had a job, I still
>> had
>> > to know how to tell what little money I did have. Once I retire the
>> > same
>> > will be true. There is no question, money is very important all over
>> > the
>> > world let alone the u.s. and it would be helpful to be able to know
> right
>> > away what bill you are getting.
>> > So often, I've been assisted by people who are from other countries.
>> > The
>> > British for example are shocked that all of our paper money is the same
>> > size. And they want to know how do I know someone is not cheating me.
> Even
>> > my friends and assistants want to know how I know what paper money I
> have.
>> > And it would be great if I didn't have to go through various steps and
>> > stages to fold money in different ways so I would know this is a twenty
> or
>> > ten etc.
>> > Quite frankly, I'm glad that the judge recognized that being able to
> know
>> > what a bill is by feel if not by sight is an important thing.
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
>> > Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:50 PM
>> > To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
>> > FederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> >
>> > It's times like this that I'm reminded why I have nothing to do with
>> > the
>> > federation. I'm certainly not saying everyone in the federation is this
>> way,
>> > but you have to wonder where some of this logic comes from.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Will Smith" < mailto:wilsmith at iglou.com wilsmith at iglou.com
>
>> > To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" < mailto:gui-talk at nfbnet.org gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:30 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
>> Federal
>> > Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I continue to marvel at the positions NFB top brass take on things like
>> > distinct money markings or shapes.
>> >
>> > I guess if you have enough power and position then money just doesnt
>> matter
>> > much.
>> >
>> > Will
>> > mailto:wilsmith at iglou.com wilsmith at iglou.com
>> > On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Reinhard Stebner
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > I really do not understand the NFB's stand on this. I think having
>> > > money that I can tell at a glance what it is makes me more
>> > > independent
>> > > from machines, fraud and enables me to be more independent. How do
>> > > other blind people think about this?
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> > > [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> > > On Behalf Of David Andrews
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:53 PM
>> > > To: mailto:dtb-talk at nfbnet.org dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
; mailto:dandrews at visi.com dandrews at visi.com
; mailto:diabetes-talk at nfbnet.org diabetes-talk at nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:promotion-technology at nfbnet.org promotion-technology at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" nabs-l"@nfbnet.org " nabs-l"@nfbnet.org
; "
>> > nfbcs"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org blindtlk at nfbnet.org
; mailto:nfb-announce at nfbnet.org nfb-announce at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" nfbmo"@nfbnet.org " nfbmo"@nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:nfb-science at nfbnet.org nfb-science at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" journalists"@nfbnet.org " journalists"@nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:gui-talk at nfbnet.org gui-talk at nfbnet.org
; mailto:blindkid at nfbnet.org blindkid at nfbnet.org
; mailto:napub at nfbnet.org napub at nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:nabop at nfbnet.org nabop at nfbnet.org
; mailto:blparent at nfbnet.org blparent at nfbnet.org
; mailto:cabs-talk at nfbnet.org cabs-talk at nfbnet.org
; "
>> > > nfb-reno-l"@nfbnet.org; mailto:nfb-river-city at nfbnet.org nfb-river-city at nfbnet.org
; "
>> > > nfb-sf"@nfbnet.org; mailto:nfbc-info at nfbnet.org nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
; mailto:nfbofncp at nfbnet.org nfbofncp at nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:trainer-talk at nfbnet.org trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" electronics-talk"@nfbnet.org " electronics-talk"@nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" tops-2005"@nfbnet.org " tops-2005"@nfbnet.org
; mailto:" rocketon"@nfbnet.org " rocketon"@nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:nopbc-board at nfbnet.org nopbc-board at nfbnet.org
; mailto:nfb-newsline-sponsors at nfbnet.org nfb-newsline-sponsors at nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:nfb-imagination-fund at nfbnet.org nfb-imagination-fund at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" new-horizons"@nfbnet.org " new-horizons"@nfbnet.org
; "
>> > > ncbys"@nfbnet.org;
>> > mailto:nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:gama-summit at nfbnet.org gama-summit at nfbnet.org
; mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
; mailto:nfb-idaho at nfbnet.org nfb-idaho at nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" cabs"@nfbnet.org " cabs"@nfbnet.org
; mailto:colorado-talk at nfbnet.org colorado-talk at nfbnet.org
; "
>> > > nfbaz-talk"@nfbnet.org; mailto:mabs at nfbnet.org mabs at nfbnet.org
; mailto:oabs at nfbnet.org oabs at nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" nfbf-l"@nfbnet.org " nfbf-l"@nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:4alabama at nfbnet.org 4alabama at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" vabs"@nfbnet.org " vabs"@nfbnet.org
; mailto:" mn-abs"@nfbnet.org " mn-abs"@nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" mi-abs"@nfbnet.org " mi-abs"@nfbnet.org
; mailto:il-talk at nfbnet.org il-talk at nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:iabs-talk at nfbnet.org iabs-talk at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" nebraska-students"@nfbnet.org " nebraska-students"@nfbnet.org
; "
>> > > tn-talk"@nfbnet.org;
>> > mailto:vendtalk at nfbnet.org vendtalk at nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:" nagdu"@nfbnet.org " nagdu"@nfbnet.org
; mailto:" nyagdu"@nfbnet.org " nyagdu"@nfbnet.org
; mailto:" ag-eq"@nfbnet.org " ag-eq"@nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:arizona-students at nfbnet.org arizona-students at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" nfb-kzoo"@nfbnet.org " nfb-kzoo"@nfbnet.org
; "
>> > > reader-users"@nfbnet.org; mailto:nabentre at nfbnet.org nabentre at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" nfbj"@nfbnet.org " nfbj"@nfbnet.org
; "
>> > > nfb-db"@nfbnet.org; mailto:nfb-fundraising at nfbnet.org nfb-fundraising at nfbnet.org
; "
>> > faith-talk"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > mailto:" lions-ed"@nfbnet.org " lions-ed"@nfbnet.org
; mailto:nfb-lions at nfbnet.org nfb-lions at nfbnet.org
; "
>> > ncme-mentoring"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > mailto:" nfbwv-talk"@nfbnet.org " nfbwv-talk"@nfbnet.org
; mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:nfb-editors at nfbnet.org nfb-editors at nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:" humanser"@nfbnet.org " humanser"@nfbnet.org
; mailto:rehab at nfbnet.org rehab at nfbnet.org
; mailto:nfbpnotk at nfbnet.org nfbpnotk at nfbnet.org
; "
>> > > musictlk"@nfbnet.org; mailto:" nosb"@nfbnet.org " nosb"@nfbnet.org
; mailto:stylist at nfbnet.org stylist at nfbnet.org
; "
>> > > sportsandrec"@nfbnet.org; mailto:" nobe-l"@nfbnet.org " nobe-l"@nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:travelandtourism at nfbnet.org travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" teachvib"@nfbnet.org " teachvib"@nfbnet.org
; "
>> > nfb-web"@nfbnet.org;
>> > > mailto:ccb-alumni at nfbnet.org ccb-alumni at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" la-students"@nfbnet.org " la-students"@nfbnet.org
; "
>> > > nfb-cars"@nfbnet.org; mailto:nfb-hi at nfbnet.org nfb-hi at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" nfbkabs"@nfbnet.org " nfbkabs"@nfbnet.org
; "
>> > > nfbkpbc"@nfbnet.org; mailto:nfbofncp at nfbnet.org nfbofncp at nfbnet.org
; mailto:" tabs"@nfbnet.org " tabs"@nfbnet.org
;
>> > > mailto:dtb-talk at nfbnet.org dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > > Subject: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
>> > > Federal Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> > >
>> > > National Federation of the Blind Comments
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > on Federal Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Views Effort as Dangerously Misguided
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Baltimore, Maryland (November 29, 2006): The National Federation of
>> > > the Blind, the largest organization of blind persons in America and
>> > > known as the voice of the nation's blind, criticized as dangerously
>> > > misguided a federal court ruling saying that the design of U.S.
>> > > currency discriminates against the blind.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>> > > said: "The blind need jobs and real opportunities to earn money, not
>> > > feel-good gimmicks that misinform the public about our capabilities.
>> > > Blind people transact business with paper money every day. This
>> > > ruling puts a roadblock in the way of solving the real problem, which
>> > > is the seventy percent unemployment rate among working-age blind
>> > > Americans that severely limits our access to cash. The ruling will
>> > > do
>> > > nothing to alleviate that situation; in fact, it seriously endangers
>> > > the ability of the blind to get jobs and participate fully in
>> > > society.
>> > > It argues that the blind cannot handle currency or documents in the
>> > > workplace and that virtually everything must be modified for the use
>> > > of the blind. An employer who believes that every piece of printed
>> > > material in the workplace must be specially designed so that the
>> > > blind
>> > > can read it will have a strong incentive not to hire a blind person."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Maurer went on to enumerate the real needs for access to information
>> > > by the blind and made a distinction between those needs and the issue
>> > > of identifying currency. "Access to information of all kinds, such
>> > > as
>> > > that contained on Internet Web sites and in the press, is certainly
>> > > critical to the ability of the blind to become productive members of
>> > > society. Blind students need educational materials in Braille and
>> > > other alternative formats so that they can prepare for employment and
>> > > ultimately earn an income for themselves and their families. Given
>> > > the urgent need for access to the kind of information that is
>> > > required
>> > > for success in America's information economy, the matter of
>> > > identifying the denominations of paper bills is of relatively little
>> > > concern."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Blind people traditionally identify paper currency by folding bills
>> > > of
>> > > different denominations in different ways. "In reality, blind people
>> > > do not routinely find that we have been short-changed," Maurer
>> > > commented. Machines are readily available to identify paper money
>> > > for
>> > > blind people who run businesses or handle large amounts of cash.
>> > > "Essentially, the United States Treasury has been ordered by the
>> > > courts to come up with a solution for a nonexistent problem," Maurer
>> > > said.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The National Federation of the Blind believes that with training and
>> > > opportunity, blind people can compete in the world with only minor
>> > > modifications. The American Council of the Blind, which brought the
>> > > lawsuit against the United States Treasury, promotes the view that
>> > > the
>> > > blind are unable to compete unless the world is modified dramatically
>> > > and specifically for blind people, and that the blind must be made
>> > > objects of care and pity rather than equal participants in society.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > John G. Par? Jr.
>> > > Director of Public Relations
>> > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
>> > > 1800 Johnson Street
>> > > Baltimore, Maryland 21230
>> > > Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2371
>> > > Cell phone: (410) 913-3912
>> > > Fax: (410) 685-5653
>> > > Email: mailto:jpare at nfb.org jpare at nfb.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > gui-talk mailing list
>> > > mailto:gui-talk at nfbnet.org gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > gui-talk mailing list
>> > > mailto:gui-talk at nfbnet.org gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> > ----
>> >
>> >
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>> > > mailto:gui-talk at nfbnet.org gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> > >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > mailto:gui-talk at nfbnet.org gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> >
>> > --
>> > Doug Lee mailto:dgl at dlee.org dgl at dlee.org
>> > SSB + BART Group mailto:doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
>> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>> > "Never does the human soul appear so strong as when it foregoes
>> > revenge, and dares forgive an injury." --E. H. Chapin
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gui-talk mailing list
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>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>>
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>>
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--
Doug Lee mailto:dgl at dlee.org dgl at dlee.org
SSB + BART Group mailto:doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
http://www.ssbbartgroup.com http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
No one alive is beyond hope; every second of life is a chance.
(08/29/02)
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