[gui-talk] National Federation oftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourtRuling on U.S. Currency

Mike Freeman k7uij at panix.com
Fri Dec 1 18:07:40 CST 2006 

Additionally, don't forget that this is policy based upon a resolution 
passed by the national convention. And Dr. Maurer did not write it; *I* did.

Mike Freeman, President
NFB of Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jaybee" <jayjohnson62 at bellsouth.net>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation 
oftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourtRuling on U.S. Currency


I surely hope that it would be difficult to as you put it: get rid of Dr.
Maurer and his top leadership, but I believe the reason it would be
difficult is not because elections make it difficult; I think the real
reason it would be difficult is because the majority of us think they're
doing a good job.  I certainly as a member of the NFB do not agree with
every decision made, but I doubt if anyone can name any leader to which you
agree on everything.  Disagreement can be a tool for growth.  Respectfully,
Jesse
"To err is human; to forgive divine  (Alexander Pope, 1688.")
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Henrichsen" <paulh52 at pacbell.net>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation oftheBlindCommentsonFederalCourt
Ruling on U.S. Currency


>I think they are. I imagine it would be very difficult to get rid of Mr.
> Mauer and his top leadership.
>
>
>
> Paul Henrichsen
> Paulh52 at pacbell.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:20 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of
> theBlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>
> As an outsider to the NFB, I have to ask a basic thing:  When a lot of
> members disagree with enough policy positions of the NFB leadership, are
> there periodic nationwide elections where  two or more candidates run for
> the top posts, and new leadership can be voted in?  Or are the top
> positions
> more like job appointments of indefinite duration?
>
> Thanks.  I know it's a really basic question about organizational
> structure,
> but I've heard about national conventions and so forth, but never about
> elections of any sort.
>
> Thanks.
> nd ndefniite to wish for a idifferent olicty p9o
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: George and Pamela Dominguez
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
> BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>
>
> As long as we support the NFB, I don't think they can demand that we agree
> with every single thing.  After all, we are individuals who belong to an
> organization of people who are blind.  I don't agree with everything all
> the
> way, but when I don't, I don't make a fuss.  I just keep it to myself if I
> can't get somebody to convince me why I should change my mind.  I still
> believe in the principles of the NFB, and I'm glad we have it.  Pam.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Lee" <dgl at dlee.org>
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 2:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
> BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>
>
>> I must giggle at this, then hesitantly and hopefully briefly reply:
>>
>> I think we all agree that inaccessible computers deny us jobs.
>> Computers and money do have in common the trait of being hard to live
>> without these days.  However, whereas I'm sure a list of jobs
>> impossible without computer access would fall together in a hurry on
>> the slightest public prompting, I doubt a list of jobs impossible
>> without tactily identifiable money would so easily form.  Witness the
>> existence of this very mailing list to address the need to make
>> computers accessible, and as far as I know, the profound absence of
>> such a list for the problems we have handling money.  Money-Talk, or
>> would that be Money-Talks?  Hmm. <grin>
>>
>> My personal view, in case anyone wants it:  I would like identifiable
>> money, but I believe it will be extremely expensive to make that
>> happen unless someone manages a way to do it that requires no
>> modification to the myriad money readers out there--laundry machines,
>> change machines, soda machines, etc.  I believe the money modification
>> should have been made when other changes were being made to reduce
>> counterfitting, and I even think the NFB defended this position at the
>> time.  I think the strongest argument against changing money for blind
>> people is not what it will make people think of blindness, but as Mike
>> said, what danger we place current laws in by trying to use them to
>> accomplish such a mountainous task.  Were it me, I would not spend my
>> money fighting this, but I would neither go to the barricades and
>> assert it as necessary.  Finally, I hope the outcome of this is,
>> ultimately, a change in US money, even if it occurs as part of
>> something else, and even if not immediately.
>>
>> Disclaimer, if that's what it is:  I am an NFB member and have been
>> since about 1984.  If I disagree with an NFB policy, I know where to
>> go to speak my mind.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:21:21AM -0600, jaybee wrote:
>> There's just as little need to change the currency to make it accessible
> as
>> there is to change the computer to make it accessible.  Regards, Jesse
>> "To err is human; to forgive divine  (Alexander Pope, 1688.")
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
>> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
>> BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>>
>> Well glad you know how the court things before there is ever any oral
>> argument. It's strange that we ask that printed materials be put in
>> accessible format such as braille electronic files or tape. Or we ask
>> that
>> the bus system be made more accessible so we can know when our stops are
>> coming or that elevators have braille and large print on them so we can
> know
>> what floor we're getting off of. When there is an nfb convention, the
> rooms
>> are marked in braille. Why because we are blind and cannot see to read
>> print. But when it comes to one of the most important things in the
>> world,
>> knowing what money you have the instant its given to you, oh that's not a
>> good thing because of blindness.
>> The reason why people are not cheated on a wide scale basis is because we
>> take all of these extra steps that sighted people never have to do to
> avoid
>> being cheated. And I've heard more than a few instances of where people
> have
>> accidentally given a wrong bill and lost a lot of money. I can say I'm
>> not
>> one of them. But I'm still glad the judge realizes that this is
>> important.
>> Quite frankly if the u.s. supreme court could fool the criminal defense
> bar
>> with the crawford decision two years ago, don't be so sure that the
> judge's
>> decision will be reversed on appeal.
>>
>> s
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:21 PM
>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind
>> CommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>> If the case is appealed as it most assuredly will be, the appeal will
>> win.
>> And what will have been gained? Nothing. And much could be lost if the
>> decision rejecting the lawsuit on appeal is broader and abolishes some of
>> the protections we now have under Section 504, the underlying statue.
>>
>> Moreover, under most circumstances in which someone would be cheated,
>> cashiers' drawers must balance at the end of the day. I deny the
> implication
>> that numerous blind persons have been ripped off.
>>
>> I wouldn't object if currency were modified for other reasons. But
> blindness
>> certainly is not a sufficient reason IMO to do so.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
>> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments
>> onFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>> Dr. Mauer and others are correct in saying that there are many more
>> important issues like jobs and access to printed material that touch the
>> blind community. But this doesn't mean that having paper money is not
>> important. I've been working for years now. Before I had a job, I still
> had
>> to know how to tell what little money I did have. Once I retire the same
>> will be true. There is no question, money is very important all over the
>> world let alone the u.s. and it would be helpful to be able to know right
>> away what bill you are getting.
>> So often, I've been assisted by people who are from other countries. The
>> British for example are shocked that all of our paper money is the same
>> size. And they want to know how do I know someone is not cheating me.
>> Even
>> my friends and assistants want to know how I know what paper money I
>> have.
>> And it would be great if I didn't have to go through various steps and
>> stages to fold money in different ways so I would know this is a twenty
>> or
>> ten etc.
>> Quite frankly, I'm glad that the judge recognized that being able to know
>> what a bill is by feel if not by sight is an important thing.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:50 PM
>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
>> FederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>> It's times like this that I'm reminded why I have nothing to do with the
>> federation. I'm certainly not saying everyone in the federation is this
> way,
>> but you have to wonder where some of this logic comes from.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Will Smith" <wilsmith at iglou.com>
>> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
> Federal
>> Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
>>
>>
>>
>> I continue to marvel at the positions NFB top brass take on things like
>> distinct money markings or shapes.
>>
>> I guess if you have enough power and position then money just doesnt
> matter
>> much.
>>
>> Will
>> wilsmith at iglou.com
>> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Reinhard Stebner
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I really do not understand the NFB's stand on this.  I think having
>> > money that I can tell at a glance what it is makes me more independent
>> > from machines, fraud and enables me to be more independent.  How do
>> > other blind people think about this?
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> > On Behalf Of David Andrews
>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:53 PM
>> > To: dtb-talk at nfbnet.org; dandrews at visi.com; diabetes-talk at nfbnet.org;
>> > promotion-technology at nfbnet.org; " nabs-l"@nfbnet.org; "
>> nfbcs"@nfbnet.org;
>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org; nfb-announce at nfbnet.org; " nfbmo"@nfbnet.org;
>> > nfb-science at nfbnet.org; " journalists"@nfbnet.org;
>> > gui-talk at nfbnet.org; blindkid at nfbnet.org; napub at nfbnet.org;
>> > nabop at nfbnet.org; blparent at nfbnet.org; cabs-talk at nfbnet.org; "
>> > nfb-reno-l"@nfbnet.org; nfb-river-city at nfbnet.org; "
>> > nfb-sf"@nfbnet.org; nfbc-info at nfbnet.org; nfbofncp at nfbnet.org;
>> > trainer-talk at nfbnet.org; " electronics-talk"@nfbnet.org;
>> > nfb-talk at nfbnet.org; " tops-2005"@nfbnet.org; " rocketon"@nfbnet.org;
>> > nopbc-board at nfbnet.org; nfb-newsline-sponsors at nfbnet.org;
>> > nfb-imagination-fund at nfbnet.org; " new-horizons"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > ncbys"@nfbnet.org;
>> nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org;
>> > gama-summit at nfbnet.org; nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org; nfb-idaho at nfbnet.org;
>> > mt-blind at nfbnet.org; " cabs"@nfbnet.org; colorado-talk at nfbnet.org; "
>> > nfbaz-talk"@nfbnet.org; mabs at nfbnet.org; oabs at nfbnet.org;
>> > greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org; " nfbf-l"@nfbnet.org;
>> > 4alabama at nfbnet.org; " vabs"@nfbnet.org; " mn-abs"@nfbnet.org;
>> > nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org; " mi-abs"@nfbnet.org; il-talk at nfbnet.org;
>> > iabs-talk at nfbnet.org; " nebraska-students"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > tn-talk"@nfbnet.org;
>> vendtalk at nfbnet.org;
>> > " nagdu"@nfbnet.org; " nyagdu"@nfbnet.org; " ag-eq"@nfbnet.org;
>> > arizona-students at nfbnet.org; " nfb-kzoo"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > reader-users"@nfbnet.org; nabentre at nfbnet.org; " nfbj"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > nfb-db"@nfbnet.org; nfb-fundraising at nfbnet.org; "
>> faith-talk"@nfbnet.org;
>> > " lions-ed"@nfbnet.org; nfb-lions at nfbnet.org; "
>> ncme-mentoring"@nfbnet.org;
>> > " nfbwv-talk"@nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org; nfb-editors at nfbnet.org;
>> > " humanser"@nfbnet.org; rehab at nfbnet.org; nfbpnotk at nfbnet.org; "
>> > musictlk"@nfbnet.org; " nosb"@nfbnet.org; stylist at nfbnet.org; "
>> > sportsandrec"@nfbnet.org; " nobe-l"@nfbnet.org;
>> > travelandtourism at nfbnet.org; " teachvib"@nfbnet.org; "
>> nfb-web"@nfbnet.org;
>> > ccb-alumni at nfbnet.org; " la-students"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > nfb-cars"@nfbnet.org; nfb-hi at nfbnet.org; " nfbkabs"@nfbnet.org; "
>> > nfbkpbc"@nfbnet.org; nfbofncp at nfbnet.org; " tabs"@nfbnet.org;
>> > dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > Subject: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
>> > Federal Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> >
>> >         National Federation of the Blind Comments
>> >
>> >
>> > on Federal Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Views Effort as Dangerously Misguided
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Baltimore, Maryland (November 29, 2006): The National Federation of
>> > the Blind, the largest organization of blind persons in America and
>> > known as the voice of the nation's blind, criticized as dangerously
>> > misguided a federal court ruling saying that the design of U.S.
>> > currency discriminates against the blind.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>> > said: "The blind need jobs and real opportunities to earn money, not
>> > feel-good gimmicks that misinform the public about our capabilities.
>> > Blind people transact business with paper money every day.  This
>> > ruling puts a roadblock in the way of solving the real problem, which
>> > is the seventy percent unemployment rate among working-age blind
>> > Americans that severely limits our access to cash.  The ruling will do
>> > nothing to alleviate that situation; in fact, it seriously endangers
>> > the ability of the blind to get jobs and participate fully in society.
>> > It argues that the blind cannot handle currency or documents in the
>> > workplace and that virtually everything must be modified for the use
>> > of the blind.  An employer who believes that every piece of printed
>> > material in the workplace must be specially designed so that the blind
>> > can read it will have a strong incentive not to hire a blind person."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Maurer went on to enumerate the real needs for access to information
>> > by the blind and made a distinction between those needs and the issue
>> > of identifying currency.  "Access to information of all kinds, such as
>> > that contained on Internet Web sites and in the press, is certainly
>> > critical to the ability of the blind to become productive members of
>> > society.  Blind students need educational materials in Braille and
>> > other alternative formats so that they can prepare for employment and
>> > ultimately earn an income for themselves and their families.  Given
>> > the urgent need for access to the kind of information that is required
>> > for success in America's information economy, the matter of
>> > identifying the denominations of paper bills is of relatively little
>> > concern."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Blind people traditionally identify paper currency by folding bills of
>> > different denominations in different ways.  "In reality, blind people
>> > do not routinely find that we have been short-changed," Maurer
>> > commented.  Machines are readily available to identify paper money for
>> > blind people who run businesses or handle large amounts of cash.
>> > "Essentially, the United States Treasury has been ordered by the
>> > courts to come up with a solution for a nonexistent problem," Maurer
>> > said.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The National Federation of the Blind believes that with training and
>> > opportunity, blind people can compete in the world with only minor
>> > modifications.  The American Council of the Blind, which brought the
>> > lawsuit against the United States Treasury, promotes the view that the
>> > blind are unable to compete unless the world is modified dramatically
>> > and specifically for blind people, and that the blind must be made
>> > objects of care and pity rather than equal participants in society.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > John G. Par? Jr.
>> > Director of Public Relations
>> > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
>> > 1800 Johnson Street
>> > Baltimore, Maryland  21230
>> > Telephone:  (410) 659-9314, ext. 2371
>> > Cell phone:  (410) 913-3912
>> > Fax:  (410) 685-5653
>> > Email:  jpare at nfb.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gui-talk mailing list
>> > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gui-talk mailing list
>> > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>> ----
>>
>>
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>> >
>>
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>> -- 
>> Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org
>> SSB + BART Group         doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>> "Never does the human soul appear so strong as when it foregoes
>> revenge, and dares forgive an injury." --E. H. Chapin
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