[gui-talk] National Federation of the BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency

Fri Dec 1 13:51:22 CST 2006

As long as we support the NFB, I don't think they can demand that we agree
with every single thing.  After all, we are individuals who belong to an
organization of people who are blind.  I don't agree with everything all the
way, but when I don't, I don't make a fuss.  I just keep it to myself if I
can't get somebody to convince me why I should change my mind.  I still
believe in the principles of the NFB, and I'm glad we have it.  Pam.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Lee" <dgl at dlee.org>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency


> I must giggle at this, then hesitantly and hopefully briefly reply:
>
> I think we all agree that inaccessible computers deny us jobs.
> Computers and money do have in common the trait of being hard to live
> without these days.  However, whereas I'm sure a list of jobs
> impossible without computer access would fall together in a hurry on
> the slightest public prompting, I doubt a list of jobs impossible
> without tactily identifiable money would so easily form.  Witness the
> existence of this very mailing list to address the need to make
> computers accessible, and as far as I know, the profound absence of
> such a list for the problems we have handling money.  Money-Talk, or
> would that be Money-Talks?  Hmm. <grin>
>
> My personal view, in case anyone wants it:  I would like identifiable
> money, but I believe it will be extremely expensive to make that
> happen unless someone manages a way to do it that requires no
> modification to the myriad money readers out there--laundry machines,
> change machines, soda machines, etc.  I believe the money modification
> should have been made when other changes were being made to reduce
> counterfitting, and I even think the NFB defended this position at the
> time.  I think the strongest argument against changing money for blind
> people is not what it will make people think of blindness, but as Mike
> said, what danger we place current laws in by trying to use them to
> accomplish such a mountainous task.  Were it me, I would not spend my
> money fighting this, but I would neither go to the barricades and
> assert it as necessary.  Finally, I hope the outcome of this is,
> ultimately, a change in US money, even if it occurs as part of
> something else, and even if not immediately.
>
> Disclaimer, if that's what it is:  I am an NFB member and have been
> since about 1984.  If I disagree with an NFB policy, I know where to
> go to speak my mind.
>
> On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:21:21AM -0600, jaybee wrote:
> There's just as little need to change the currency to make it accessible
as
> there is to change the computer to make it accessible.  Regards, Jesse
> "To err is human; to forgive divine  (Alexander Pope, 1688.")
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
> BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>
>
> Well glad you know how the court things before there is ever any oral
> argument. It's strange that we ask that printed materials be put in
> accessible format such as braille electronic files or tape. Or we ask that
> the bus system be made more accessible so we can know when our stops are
> coming or that elevators have braille and large print on them so we can
know
> what floor we're getting off of. When there is an nfb convention, the
rooms
> are marked in braille. Why because we are blind and cannot see to read
> print. But when it comes to one of the most important things in the world,
> knowing what money you have the instant its given to you, oh that's not a
> good thing because of blindness.
> The reason why people are not cheated on a wide scale basis is because we
> take all of these extra steps that sighted people never have to do to
avoid
> being cheated. And I've heard more than a few instances of where people
have
> accidentally given a wrong bill and lost a lot of money. I can say I'm not
> one of them. But I'm still glad the judge realizes that this is important.
> Quite frankly if the u.s. supreme court could fool the criminal defense
bar
> with the crawford decision two years ago, don't be so sure that the
judge's
> decision will be reversed on appeal.
>
> s
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:21 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind
> CommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>
> If the case is appealed as it most assuredly will be, the appeal will win.
> And what will have been gained? Nothing. And much could be lost if the
> decision rejecting the lawsuit on appeal is broader and abolishes some of
> the protections we now have under Section 504, the underlying statue.
>
> Moreover, under most circumstances in which someone would be cheated,
> cashiers' drawers must balance at the end of the day. I deny the
implication
> that numerous blind persons have been ripped off.
>
> I wouldn't object if currency were modified for other reasons. But
blindness
> certainly is not a sufficient reason IMO to do so.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments
> onFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>
>
> Hello,
> Dr. Mauer and others are correct in saying that there are many more
> important issues like jobs and access to printed material that touch the
> blind community. But this doesn't mean that having paper money is not
> important. I've been working for years now. Before I had a job, I still
had
> to know how to tell what little money I did have. Once I retire the same
> will be true. There is no question, money is very important all over the
> world let alone the u.s. and it would be helpful to be able to know right
> away what bill you are getting.
> So often, I've been assisted by people who are from other countries. The
> British for example are shocked that all of our paper money is the same
> size. And they want to know how do I know someone is not cheating me. Even
> my friends and assistants want to know how I know what paper money I have.
> And it would be great if I didn't have to go through various steps and
> stages to fold money in different ways so I would know this is a twenty or
> ten etc.
> Quite frankly, I'm glad that the judge recognized that being able to know
> what a bill is by feel if not by sight is an important thing.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:50 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
> FederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
>
> It's times like this that I'm reminded why I have nothing to do with the
> federation. I'm certainly not saying everyone in the federation is this
way,
> but you have to wonder where some of this logic comes from.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Will Smith" <wilsmith at iglou.com>
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
Federal
> Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
>
>
>
> I continue to marvel at the positions NFB top brass take on things like
> distinct money markings or shapes.
>
> I guess if you have enough power and position then money just doesnt
matter
> much.
>
> Will
> wilsmith at iglou.com
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Reinhard Stebner
> wrote:
>
> > I really do not understand the NFB's stand on this.  I think having
> > money that I can tell at a glance what it is makes me more independent
> > from machines, fraud and enables me to be more independent.  How do
> > other blind people think about this?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > On Behalf Of David Andrews
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:53 PM
> > To: dtb-talk at nfbnet.org; dandrews at visi.com; diabetes-talk at nfbnet.org;
> > promotion-technology at nfbnet.org; " nabs-l"@nfbnet.org; "
> nfbcs"@nfbnet.org;
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org; nfb-announce at nfbnet.org; " nfbmo"@nfbnet.org;
> > nfb-science at nfbnet.org; " journalists"@nfbnet.org;
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> > nabop at nfbnet.org; blparent at nfbnet.org; cabs-talk at nfbnet.org; "
> > nfb-reno-l"@nfbnet.org; nfb-river-city at nfbnet.org; "
> > nfb-sf"@nfbnet.org; nfbc-info at nfbnet.org; nfbofncp at nfbnet.org;
> > trainer-talk at nfbnet.org; " electronics-talk"@nfbnet.org;
> > nfb-talk at nfbnet.org; " tops-2005"@nfbnet.org; " rocketon"@nfbnet.org;
> > nopbc-board at nfbnet.org; nfb-newsline-sponsors at nfbnet.org;
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> > ncbys"@nfbnet.org;
> nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org;
> > gama-summit at nfbnet.org; nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org; nfb-idaho at nfbnet.org;
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> > nfbaz-talk"@nfbnet.org; mabs at nfbnet.org; oabs at nfbnet.org;
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> > 4alabama at nfbnet.org; " vabs"@nfbnet.org; " mn-abs"@nfbnet.org;
> > nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org; " mi-abs"@nfbnet.org; il-talk at nfbnet.org;
> > iabs-talk at nfbnet.org; " nebraska-students"@nfbnet.org; "
> > tn-talk"@nfbnet.org;
> vendtalk at nfbnet.org;
> > " nagdu"@nfbnet.org; " nyagdu"@nfbnet.org; " ag-eq"@nfbnet.org;
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> > reader-users"@nfbnet.org; nabentre at nfbnet.org; " nfbj"@nfbnet.org; "
> > nfb-db"@nfbnet.org; nfb-fundraising at nfbnet.org; "
> faith-talk"@nfbnet.org;
> > " lions-ed"@nfbnet.org; nfb-lions at nfbnet.org; "
> ncme-mentoring"@nfbnet.org;
> > " nfbwv-talk"@nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org; nfb-editors at nfbnet.org;
> > " humanser"@nfbnet.org; rehab at nfbnet.org; nfbpnotk at nfbnet.org; "
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> nfb-web"@nfbnet.org;
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> > dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
> > Federal Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
> >
> >         National Federation of the Blind Comments
> >
> >
> > on Federal Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Views Effort as Dangerously Misguided
> >
> >
> >
> > Baltimore, Maryland (November 29, 2006): The National Federation of
> > the Blind, the largest organization of blind persons in America and
> > known as the voice of the nation's blind, criticized as dangerously
> > misguided a federal court ruling saying that the design of U.S.
> > currency discriminates against the blind.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
> > said: "The blind need jobs and real opportunities to earn money, not
> > feel-good gimmicks that misinform the public about our capabilities.
> > Blind people transact business with paper money every day.  This
> > ruling puts a roadblock in the way of solving the real problem, which
> > is the seventy percent unemployment rate among working-age blind
> > Americans that severely limits our access to cash.  The ruling will do
> > nothing to alleviate that situation; in fact, it seriously endangers
> > the ability of the blind to get jobs and participate fully in society.
> > It argues that the blind cannot handle currency or documents in the
> > workplace and that virtually everything must be modified for the use
> > of the blind.  An employer who believes that every piece of printed
> > material in the workplace must be specially designed so that the blind
> > can read it will have a strong incentive not to hire a blind person."
> >
> >
> >
> > Maurer went on to enumerate the real needs for access to information
> > by the blind and made a distinction between those needs and the issue
> > of identifying currency.  "Access to information of all kinds, such as
> > that contained on Internet Web sites and in the press, is certainly
> > critical to the ability of the blind to become productive members of
> > society.  Blind students need educational materials in Braille and
> > other alternative formats so that they can prepare for employment and
> > ultimately earn an income for themselves and their families.  Given
> > the urgent need for access to the kind of information that is required
> > for success in America's information economy, the matter of
> > identifying the denominations of paper bills is of relatively little
> > concern."
> >
> >
> >
> > Blind people traditionally identify paper currency by folding bills of
> > different denominations in different ways.  "In reality, blind people
> > do not routinely find that we have been short-changed," Maurer
> > commented.  Machines are readily available to identify paper money for
> > blind people who run businesses or handle large amounts of cash.
> > "Essentially, the United States Treasury has been ordered by the
> > courts to come up with a solution for a nonexistent problem," Maurer
> > said.
> >
> >
> >
> > The National Federation of the Blind believes that with training and
> > opportunity, blind people can compete in the world with only minor
> > modifications.  The American Council of the Blind, which brought the
> > lawsuit against the United States Treasury, promotes the view that the
> > blind are unable to compete unless the world is modified dramatically
> > and specifically for blind people, and that the blind must be made
> > objects of care and pity rather than equal participants in society.
> >
> >
> >
> > John G. Par? Jr.
> > Director of Public Relations
> > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
> > 1800 Johnson Street
> > Baltimore, Maryland  21230
> > Telephone:  (410) 659-9314, ext. 2371
> > Cell phone:  (410) 913-3912
> > Fax:  (410) 685-5653
> > Email:  jpare at nfb.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gui-talk mailing list
> > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gui-talk mailing list
> > gui-talk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk
> >
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> -- 
> Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org
> SSB + BART Group         doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
> "Never does the human soul appear so strong as when it foregoes
> revenge, and dares forgive an injury." --E. H. Chapin
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