[gui-talk] National Federation of the BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
Doug Lee
dgl at dlee.org
Fri Dec 1 13:29:13 CST 2006
I must giggle at this, then hesitantly and hopefully briefly reply:
I think we all agree that inaccessible computers deny us jobs.
Computers and money do have in common the trait of being hard to live
without these days. However, whereas I'm sure a list of jobs
impossible without computer access would fall together in a hurry on
the slightest public prompting, I doubt a list of jobs impossible
without tactily identifiable money would so easily form. Witness the
existence of this very mailing list to address the need to make
computers accessible, and as far as I know, the profound absence of
such a list for the problems we have handling money. Money-Talk, or
would that be Money-Talks? Hmm. <grin>
My personal view, in case anyone wants it: I would like identifiable
money, but I believe it will be extremely expensive to make that
happen unless someone manages a way to do it that requires no
modification to the myriad money readers out there--laundry machines,
change machines, soda machines, etc. I believe the money modification
should have been made when other changes were being made to reduce
counterfitting, and I even think the NFB defended this position at the
time. I think the strongest argument against changing money for blind
people is not what it will make people think of blindness, but as Mike
said, what danger we place current laws in by trying to use them to
accomplish such a mountainous task. Were it me, I would not spend my
money fighting this, but I would neither go to the barricades and
assert it as necessary. Finally, I hope the outcome of this is,
ultimately, a change in US money, even if it occurs as part of
something else, and even if not immediately.
Disclaimer, if that's what it is: I am an NFB member and have been
since about 1984. If I disagree with an NFB policy, I know where to
go to speak my mind.
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:21:21AM -0600, jaybee wrote:
There's just as little need to change the currency to make it accessible as
there is to change the computer to make it accessible. Regards, Jesse
"To err is human; to forgive divine (Alexander Pope, 1688.")
----- Original Message -----
From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the
BlindCommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
Well glad you know how the court things before there is ever any oral
argument. It's strange that we ask that printed materials be put in
accessible format such as braille electronic files or tape. Or we ask that
the bus system be made more accessible so we can know when our stops are
coming or that elevators have braille and large print on them so we can know
what floor we're getting off of. When there is an nfb convention, the rooms
are marked in braille. Why because we are blind and cannot see to read
print. But when it comes to one of the most important things in the world,
knowing what money you have the instant its given to you, oh that's not a
good thing because of blindness.
The reason why people are not cheated on a wide scale basis is because we
take all of these extra steps that sighted people never have to do to avoid
being cheated. And I've heard more than a few instances of where people have
accidentally given a wrong bill and lost a lot of money. I can say I'm not
one of them. But I'm still glad the judge realizes that this is important.
Quite frankly if the u.s. supreme court could fool the criminal defense bar
with the crawford decision two years ago, don't be so sure that the judge's
decision will be reversed on appeal.
s
-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Freeman
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:21 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind
CommentsonFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
If the case is appealed as it most assuredly will be, the appeal will win.
And what will have been gained? Nothing. And much could be lost if the
decision rejecting the lawsuit on appeal is broader and abolishes some of
the protections we now have under Section 504, the underlying statue.
Moreover, under most circumstances in which someone would be cheated,
cashiers' drawers must balance at the end of the day. I deny the implication
that numerous blind persons have been ripped off.
I wouldn't object if currency were modified for other reasons. But blindness
certainly is not a sufficient reason IMO to do so.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments
onFederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
Hello,
Dr. Mauer and others are correct in saying that there are many more
important issues like jobs and access to printed material that touch the
blind community. But this doesn't mean that having paper money is not
important. I've been working for years now. Before I had a job, I still had
to know how to tell what little money I did have. Once I retire the same
will be true. There is no question, money is very important all over the
world let alone the u.s. and it would be helpful to be able to know right
away what bill you are getting.
So often, I've been assisted by people who are from other countries. The
British for example are shocked that all of our paper money is the same
size. And they want to know how do I know someone is not cheating me. Even
my friends and assistants want to know how I know what paper money I have.
And it would be great if I didn't have to go through various steps and
stages to fold money in different ways so I would know this is a twenty or
ten etc.
Quite frankly, I'm glad that the judge recognized that being able to know
what a bill is by feel if not by sight is an important thing.
-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:50 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
FederalCourt Ruling on U.S. Currency
It's times like this that I'm reminded why I have nothing to do with the
federation. I'm certainly not saying everyone in the federation is this way,
but you have to wonder where some of this logic comes from.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Smith" <wilsmith at iglou.com>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on Federal
Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
I continue to marvel at the positions NFB top brass take on things like
distinct money markings or shapes.
I guess if you have enough power and position then money just doesnt matter
much.
Will
wilsmith at iglou.com
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Reinhard Stebner
wrote:
> I really do not understand the NFB's stand on this. I think having
> money that I can tell at a glance what it is makes me more independent
> from machines, fraud and enables me to be more independent. How do
> other blind people think about this?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of David Andrews
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:53 PM
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> Subject: [gui-talk] National Federation of the Blind Comments on
> Federal Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
>
> National Federation of the Blind Comments
>
>
> on Federal Court Ruling on U.S. Currency
>
>
>
>
> Views Effort as Dangerously Misguided
>
>
>
> Baltimore, Maryland (November 29, 2006): The National Federation of
> the Blind, the largest organization of blind persons in America and
> known as the voice of the nation's blind, criticized as dangerously
> misguided a federal court ruling saying that the design of U.S.
> currency discriminates against the blind.
>
>
>
> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
> said: "The blind need jobs and real opportunities to earn money, not
> feel-good gimmicks that misinform the public about our capabilities.
> Blind people transact business with paper money every day. This
> ruling puts a roadblock in the way of solving the real problem, which
> is the seventy percent unemployment rate among working-age blind
> Americans that severely limits our access to cash. The ruling will do
> nothing to alleviate that situation; in fact, it seriously endangers
> the ability of the blind to get jobs and participate fully in society.
> It argues that the blind cannot handle currency or documents in the
> workplace and that virtually everything must be modified for the use
> of the blind. An employer who believes that every piece of printed
> material in the workplace must be specially designed so that the blind
> can read it will have a strong incentive not to hire a blind person."
>
>
>
> Maurer went on to enumerate the real needs for access to information
> by the blind and made a distinction between those needs and the issue
> of identifying currency. "Access to information of all kinds, such as
> that contained on Internet Web sites and in the press, is certainly
> critical to the ability of the blind to become productive members of
> society. Blind students need educational materials in Braille and
> other alternative formats so that they can prepare for employment and
> ultimately earn an income for themselves and their families. Given
> the urgent need for access to the kind of information that is required
> for success in America's information economy, the matter of
> identifying the denominations of paper bills is of relatively little
> concern."
>
>
>
> Blind people traditionally identify paper currency by folding bills of
> different denominations in different ways. "In reality, blind people
> do not routinely find that we have been short-changed," Maurer
> commented. Machines are readily available to identify paper money for
> blind people who run businesses or handle large amounts of cash.
> "Essentially, the United States Treasury has been ordered by the
> courts to come up with a solution for a nonexistent problem," Maurer
> said.
>
>
>
> The National Federation of the Blind believes that with training and
> opportunity, blind people can compete in the world with only minor
> modifications. The American Council of the Blind, which brought the
> lawsuit against the United States Treasury, promotes the view that the
> blind are unable to compete unless the world is modified dramatically
> and specifically for blind people, and that the blind must be made
> objects of care and pity rather than equal participants in society.
>
>
>
> John G. Par? Jr.
> Director of Public Relations
> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, Maryland 21230
> Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2371
> Cell phone: (410) 913-3912
> Fax: (410) 685-5653
> Email: jpare at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
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--
Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org
SSB + BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
"Never does the human soul appear so strong as when it foregoes
revenge, and dares forgive an injury." --E. H. Chapin
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