From eric at pmpmail.com  Mon Feb  1 07:15:25 2010
From: eric at pmpmail.com (Eric Calhoun)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:15:25 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] FW: [B.A.C.M] Quote of the day for January 31st.
Message-ID: <20100201071543.1CDCF2AF786@node77.smtp.com>



Original Message: 
From: "Christine" <christine_792005 at yahoo.com>
To: bac_m at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [B.A.C.M] Quote of the day for January 31st.
Date: 
Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:18:26 -0000

Take time today and tune in to how you're speaking to yourself, Identify
precisely what beliefs you're forming based on your talk and bring them to
mind. Question them, scrutinize them, and become familiar with what they
are telling you. The awareness gained by doing this is the first major step
toward a positive life that will affect everything in your life.



From john at godtouches.org  Mon Feb  1 14:30:39 2010
From: john at godtouches.org (John J. Boyer)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:30:39 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in their
	fiction
Message-ID: <20100201143039.GA28453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>

I've seen a lot of Christian fiction. Now I would like to see some 
genuine Jewish fiction. I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't really a 
believer. It would also be interesting to see some fiction by genuine 
believers in Islam and Buddhism. I'm making a sort of study of religious 
fiction.

Thanks and prayers,
John

-- 
John J. Boyer, Executive Director
GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
http://www.godtouches.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Peace, Love, Service




From lauraeaves at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 21:37:49 2010
From: lauraeaves at yahoo.com (qubit)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:37:49 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in
	theirfiction
References: <20100201143039.GA28453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
Message-ID: <DEADE8E721684C4CBE80A76E20803906@bassclef>

Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about jewish 
persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish fiction", but I 
know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The Chosen"? That 
was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd like to read 
the book. It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2 rabbis with 
radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie if this was 
pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of the boys.)

As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women living in the 
more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not fiction.
For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well written novel 
about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not religious, 
though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim man, and the 
only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part of the 
Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
Happy reading.
--laura
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John J. Boyer" <john at godtouches.org>
To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in 
theirfiction


I've seen a lot of Christian fiction. Now I would like to see some
genuine Jewish fiction. I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't really a
believer. It would also be interesting to see some fiction by genuine
believers in Islam and Buddhism. I'm making a sort of study of religious
fiction.

Thanks and prayers,
John

-- 
John J. Boyer, Executive Director
GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
http://www.godtouches.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Peace, Love, Service


_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com 




From marywurtzel at comcast.net  Tue Feb  2 01:22:42 2010
From: marywurtzel at comcast.net (mary wurtzel)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:22:42 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] looking for a book
Message-ID: <mailman.6.1593447327.15261.faith-talk_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Hi,
This is a book written by a Christian guy about healing.  That's 
about all I know.
Mary

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 06:38:00 -0600
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] looking for a book

>Is this a religious book? I haven't heard of him.
>Did you try bookshare? Or have you asked Richard Seltzer if any 
of his book
>collections include books by this author?
>Good luck.
>--le

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "mary wurtzel" <marywurtzel at comcast.net
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
><faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:10 PM
>Subject: [Faith-talk] looking for a book


>Hello to all,
>Can anyone help me find books in an accessible format by Dan
>Allender, I think this is the spelling of his name.
>Thank you.
>Mary Wurtzel

>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
>Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/laura
eaves%40yahoo.com


>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
urtzel%40comcast.net



From john at godtouches.org  Tue Feb  2 05:10:41 2010
From: john at godtouches.org (John J. Boyer)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 23:10:41 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in
	theirfiction
In-Reply-To: <DEADE8E721684C4CBE80A76E20803906@bassclef>
References: <20100201143039.GA28453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
	<DEADE8E721684C4CBE80A76E20803906@bassclef>
Message-ID: <20100202051040.GA26453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>

Laura,

thanks for the info. I am interested in writing historical and science 
fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic, perspective. So 
many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or at least 
don't take religion seriously. There is an extensive set of books by 
Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors are 
Christian. They are very pro-Jewish. The books cover the period leading 
up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel. there are also some with 
Biblical themes. An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl. He wrote 
novels about various Christian and biblical figures. He is a Catholic 
author. I am proofreading his books for Bookshare. The Thoene books are 
also on Bookshare.

Right now I don't have much energy for writing. That will have to be a 
gift of the Lord. I'm putting what energy I have into my free, 
open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will eventually 
surpass the best of commercial software. You can learn about it at 
http://www.abilitiessoft.com . And if you want to see any fiction by me, 
please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.

Thanks,
John

On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
> Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
> I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about jewish 
> persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish fiction", but I 
> know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The Chosen"? That 
> was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd like to read 
> the book. It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2 rabbis with 
> radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie if this was 
> pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of the boys.)
> 
> As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women living in the 
> more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not fiction.
> For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well written novel 
> about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not religious, 
> though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim man, and the 
> only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part of the 
> Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.
> 
> That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
> Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
> Happy reading.
> --laura
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John J. Boyer" <john at godtouches.org>
> To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in 
> theirfiction
> 
> 
> I've seen a lot of Christian fiction. Now I would like to see some
> genuine Jewish fiction. I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't really a
> believer. It would also be interesting to see some fiction by genuine
> believers in Islam and Buddhism. I'm making a sort of study of religious
> fiction.
> 
> Thanks and prayers,
> John
> 
> -- 
> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> http://www.godtouches.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> Peace, Love, Service
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org

-- 
John J. Boyer, Executive Director
GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
http://www.godtouches.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Peace, Love, Service




From gpaikens at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 10:43:15 2010
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:43:15 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in
	theirfiction
In-Reply-To: <20100202051040.GA26453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
References: <20100201143039.GA28453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
	<DEADE8E721684C4CBE80A76E20803906@bassclef>
	<20100202051040.GA26453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
Message-ID: <1ff3a0e11002020243v11893ec2nc9445f4d144b6add@mail.gmail.com>

John, your post also reminded me of C.S. Lewis's science fiction
trilogy, which you are probably already aware of. If not, you should
check them out. I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself yet but
have heard they are good.

Greg

On 2/1/10, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
> Laura,
>
> thanks for the info. I am interested in writing historical and science
> fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic, perspective. So
> many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or at least
> don't take religion seriously. There is an extensive set of books by
> Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors are
> Christian. They are very pro-Jewish. The books cover the period leading
> up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel. there are also some with
> Biblical themes. An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl. He wrote
> novels about various Christian and biblical figures. He is a Catholic
> author. I am proofreading his books for Bookshare. The Thoene books are
> also on Bookshare.
>
> Right now I don't have much energy for writing. That will have to be a
> gift of the Lord. I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
> open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will eventually
> surpass the best of commercial software. You can learn about it at
> http://www.abilitiessoft.com . And if you want to see any fiction by me,
> please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
> On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
>> Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
>> I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about jewish
>> persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish fiction", but I
>> know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The Chosen"? That
>> was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd like to
>> read
>> the book. It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2 rabbis with
>> radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie if this was
>>
>> pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of the boys.)
>>
>> As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women living in the
>>
>> more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not fiction.
>> For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well written
>> novel
>> about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not religious,
>> though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim man, and
>> the
>> only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part of the
>> Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.
>>
>> That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
>> Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
>> Happy reading.
>> --laura
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John J. Boyer" <john at godtouches.org>
>> To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in
>> theirfiction
>>
>>
>> I've seen a lot of Christian fiction. Now I would like to see some
>> genuine Jewish fiction. I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't really a
>> believer. It would also be interesting to see some fiction by genuine
>> believers in Islam and Buddhism. I'm making a sort of study of religious
>> fiction.
>>
>> Thanks and prayers,
>> John
>>
>> --
>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>> http://www.godtouches.org
>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> Peace, Love, Service
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>
> --
> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> http://www.godtouches.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> Peace, Love, Service
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>



From xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 15:23:04 2010
From: xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com (Fr. John Sheehan)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:23:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in
	theirfiction
In-Reply-To: <1ff3a0e11002020243v11893ec2nc9445f4d144b6add@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100201143039.GA28453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
	<DEADE8E721684C4CBE80A76E20803906@bassclef>
	<20100202051040.GA26453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
	<1ff3a0e11002020243v11893ec2nc9445f4d144b6add@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <190464.59706.qm@web110803.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Out of the Silent Plant
Perelandra
That Hideous Strength
Great sci-fi but with depth and a Christian underpinning. 
 Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:43:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in theirfiction

John, your post also reminded me of C.S. Lewis's science fiction
trilogy, which you are probably already aware of. If not, you should
check them out. I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself yet but
have heard they are good.

Greg

On 2/1/10, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
> Laura,
>
> thanks for the info. I am interested in writing historical and science
> fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic, perspective. So
> many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or at least
> don't take religion seriously. There is an extensive set of books by
> Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors are
> Christian. They are very pro-Jewish. The books cover the period leading
> up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel. there are also some with
> Biblical themes. An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl. He wrote
> novels about various Christian and biblical figures. He is a Catholic
> author. I am proofreading his books for Bookshare. The Thoene books are
> also on Bookshare.
>
> Right now I don't have much energy for writing. That will have to be a
> gift of the Lord. I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
> open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will eventually
> surpass the best of commercial software. You can learn about it at
> http://www.abilitiessoft.com . And if you want to see any fiction by me,
> please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
> On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
>> Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
>> I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about jewish
>> persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish fiction", but I
>> know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The Chosen"? That
>> was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd like to
>> read
>> the book. It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2 rabbis with
>> radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie if this was
>>
>> pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of the boys.)
>>
>> As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women living in the
>>
>> more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not fiction.
>> For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well written
>> novel
>> about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not religious,
>> though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim man, and
>> the
>> only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part of the
>> Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.
>>
>> That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
>> Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
>> Happy reading.
>> --laura
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John J. Boyer" <john at godtouches.org>
>> To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in
>> theirfiction
>>
>>
>> I've seen a lot of Christian fiction. Now I would like to see some
>> genuine Jewish fiction. I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't really a
>> believer. It would also be interesting to see some fiction by genuine
>> believers in Islam and Buddhism. I'm making a sort of study of religious
>> fiction.
>>
>> Thanks and prayers,
>> John
>>
>> --
>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>> http://www.godtouches.org
>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> Peace, Love, Service
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>
> --
> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> http://www.godtouches.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> Peace, Love, Service
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com



      

From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 15:55:40 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:55:40 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
Message-ID: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>

I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you respond? RJ

From kk3f at msn.com  Tue Feb  2 16:25:14 2010
From: kk3f at msn.com (pat gormley)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:25:14 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP845072FA0C9EE36A9F523F90570@phx.gbl>

I'd change churches and let the pastor know why you are doing so.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:55 AM
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


>I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told 
>because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you 
>respond? RJ
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
> 




From djasister at windstream.net  Tue Feb  2 17:06:09 2010
From: djasister at windstream.net (devona able)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:06:09 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<BLU0-SMTP845072FA0C9EE36A9F523F90570@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B3E765654DD94E8FACF8E799B93E16D3@DGQ81V31>

I would too.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: pat gormley 
  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


  I'd change churches and let the pastor know why you are doing so.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
  To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
  <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:55 AM
  Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


  >I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told 
  >because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you 
  >respond? RJ
  > _______________________________________________
  > Faith-talk mailing list
  > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
  > Faith-talk:
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
  > 


  _______________________________________________
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  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net


From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 17:21:37 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:21:37 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<BLU0-SMTP845072FA0C9EE36A9F523F90570@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <551D0AC7E5D14EEF8FFFED998E18A480@hometwxakonvzn>

No... I haven't had this problem. I'm wanting to know your experiences. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "pat gormley" <kk3f at msn.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> I'd change churches and let the pastor know why you are doing so.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:55 AM
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>>I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told 
>>because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you 
>>respond? RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From djasister at windstream.net  Tue Feb  2 17:30:01 2010
From: djasister at windstream.net (devona able)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:30:01 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <A874A6E49847405C80A543715B852F7C@DGQ81V31>

Yes, and friend's have too, and we just left.

But, now at least I belong to a loving church.

Devona
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: RJ Sandefur 
  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:55 AM
  Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


  I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you respond? RJ
  _______________________________________________
  Faith-talk mailing list
  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net


From marywurtzel at comcast.net  Tue Feb  2 19:01:19 2010
From: marywurtzel at comcast.net (mary wurtzel)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:01:19 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
	intheirfiction
Message-ID: <mailman.7.1593447327.15261.faith-talk_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Dear John,
The C.  S.  Lewis books are great.  If you want to go back, there 
are Christian authors such as Lloyd C.  Douglas who wrote The 
Robe and other books.  I think the author was Thomas Costain but 
cannot be sure who wrote The Challice.  I guess you said science 
fiction, I forgot.
God bless!!
Mary



From marywurtzel at comcast.net  Tue Feb  2 19:05:16 2010
From: marywurtzel at comcast.net (mary wurtzel)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:05:16 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
	intheirfiction
Message-ID: <mailman.8.1593447327.15261.faith-talk_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Hello,
I feel kind of embarrassed about my message not knowing your 
cridentials!!!!
Mary

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Fr.  John Sheehan" <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:23:04 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their 
Faith intheirfiction

>Out of the Silent Plant
>Perelandra
>That Hideous Strength
>Great sci-fi but with depth and a Christian underpinning.
> Fr.  John R.  Sheehan, SJ
>Chairman


>Xavier Society for the Blind
>154 East 23rd St
>New York, NY 10010
>(212) 473-7800
>Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - 
www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money 
for us! Thank you.




>________________________________
>From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:43:15 AM
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their 
Faith in theirfiction

>John, your post also reminded me of C.S.  Lewis's science fiction
>trilogy, which you are probably already aware of.  If not, you 
should
>check them out.  I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself 
yet but
>have heard they are good.

>Greg

>On 2/1/10, John J.  Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>> Laura,

>> thanks for the info.  I am interested in writing historical and 
science
>> fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic, 
perspective.  So
>> many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or 
at least
>> don't take religion seriously.  There is an extensive set of 
books by
>> Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors 
are
>> Christian.  They are very pro-Jewish.  The books cover the 
period leading
>> up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel.  there are also 
some with
>> Biblical themes.  An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl.  
He wrote
>> novels about various Christian and biblical figures.  He is a 
Catholic
>> author.  I am proofreading his books for Bookshare.  The Thoene 
books are
>> also on Bookshare.

>> Right now I don't have much energy for writing.  That will have 
to be a
>> gift of the Lord.  I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
>> open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will 
eventually
>> surpass the best of commercial software.  You can learn about it 
at
>> http://www.abilitiessoft.com .  And if you want to see any 
fiction by me,
>> please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.

>> Thanks,
>> John

>> On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
>>> Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
>>> I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about 
jewish
>>> persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish 
fiction", but I
>>> know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The 
Chosen"? That
>>> was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd 
like to
>>> read
>>> the book.  It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2 
rabbis with
>>> radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie 
if this was

>>> pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of 
the boys.)

>>> As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women 
living in the

>>> more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not 
fiction.
>>> For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well 
written
>>> novel
>>> about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not 
religious,
>>> though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim 
man, and
>>> the
>>> only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part 
of the
>>> Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.

>>> That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
>>> Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
>>> Happy reading.
>>> --laura
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>>> To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith 
in
>>> theirfiction


>>> I've seen a lot of Christian fiction.  Now I would like to see 
some
>>> genuine Jewish fiction.  I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't 
really a
>>> believer.  It would also be interesting to see some fiction by 
genuine
>>> believers in Islam and Buddhism.  I'm making a sort of study of 
religious
>>> fiction.

>>> Thanks and prayers,
>>> John

>>> --
>>> John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>> Peace, Love, Service


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/laura
eaves%40yahoo.com



>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
40godtouches.org

>> --
>> John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>> http://www.godtouches.org
>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> Peace, Love, Service


>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaik
ens%40gmail.com


>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xavie
rsocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com




>_______________________________________________
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>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
urtzel%40comcast.net



From marywurtzel at comcast.net  Tue Feb  2 19:10:33 2010
From: marywurtzel at comcast.net (mary wurtzel)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:10:33 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
Message-ID: <mailman.9.1593447327.15261.faith-talk_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

My husband Fred and I have served in every capacity in our 
church, First Christian, (disciples of Christ) in Lansing.  
Blindness has never been a factor.
Perhaps if there are people who have difficulty serving their 
faith communities, some of us who have done so could try to 
intercede.  Sometimes people act out of ignorance, not evil 
intent.
Mary

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "pat gormley" <kk3f at msn.com
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:25:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

>I'd change churches and let the pastor know why you are doing so.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
><faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:55 AM
>Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


>>I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been 
told
>>because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, 
How did you
>>respond? RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%
40msn.com



>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
urtzel%40comcast.net



From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 17:56:48 2010
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:56:48 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <B3E765654DD94E8FACF8E799B93E16D3@DGQ81V31>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<BLU0-SMTP845072FA0C9EE36A9F523F90570@phx.gbl>
	<B3E765654DD94E8FACF8E799B93E16D3@DGQ81V31>
Message-ID: <4383d01d1002020956m3f3a6c5cid15f033fa199a488@mail.gmail.com>

I was prevented from being an altar girl in the Catholic school church
I attended.  I was not happy with it, and because of it, I'm changing
churches.
Beth

On 2/2/10, devona able <djasister at windstream.net> wrote:
> I would too.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: pat gormley
>   To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>   Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:25 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>   I'd change churches and let the pastor know why you are doing so.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>   To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>   <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>   Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:55 AM
>   Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>   >I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>   >because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did
> you
>   >respond? RJ
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > Faith-talk mailing list
>   > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>   > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>   > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>   > Faith-talk:
>   >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>   >
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Faith-talk mailing list
>   Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>   http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>



From lauraeaves at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 19:50:33 2010
From: lauraeaves at yahoo.com (qubit)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:50:33 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
	intheirfiction
References: <20100201143039.GA28453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com><DEADE8E721684C4CBE80A76E20803906@bassclef>
	<20100202051040.GA26453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
Message-ID: <CB75EF26B7A7425AAA15A4DDEB3ECD75@bassclef>

Hi John --
I have read 4 of the series of books by Bodie and Brock Thoene -- actually 
their last name is pronounced "Tainy" but jaws butchers that to "thone".
The books were quite picturesque, and had an interesting story following a 
mixed group of characters, but I thought they were also a bit overly 
melodramatic.  Also, in the 4th book about the conflict in Israel, the 
muslim characters were portrayed as being all incredibly evil, except for 
one woman who converted to Christianity.  I know there is truth in some of 
the negative stereotypes, but the book paints a picture that is wholely 
one-sided, especially in reference to muslim men, who are all portrayed as 
thinking of nothing but cruelty, violence and sex.  So I liked the books 
except for this simplification of the issues.
Also, the story took place during and after ww2, which is old news now. In 
fact my mother, who lived through that era, wondered why I was reading it.
As for the 2 books I mentioned, I know "The Chosen" was written by a jewish 
man, and "Kite Runner" was written by a muslim man from Afghanistan.  So 
they are authentic.  That is one reason I liked them.  I like knowing the 
thought process of the persons living there, and reading a book by a native 
author is the best way of getting that.
Hey, good luck at your goal of fiction writing.  I have considered doing 
that myself, but the thing that holds me back is that I'm so precise about 
what I write that it's hard to be creative.  Since you have the same 
background of math and computer science, I am wondering if you are bitten by 
the same bug.  But your perspective would be very interesting.
I look forward to reading anything you write.  And if I write I will be sure 
to send a copy when I'm done.
Take care, and yes I'll keep you in my prayers.
--le

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John J. Boyer" <john at godtouches.org>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith 
intheirfiction


Laura,

thanks for the info. I am interested in writing historical and science
fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic, perspective. So
many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or at least
don't take religion seriously. There is an extensive set of books by
Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors are
Christian. They are very pro-Jewish. The books cover the period leading
up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel. there are also some with
Biblical themes. An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl. He wrote
novels about various Christian and biblical figures. He is a Catholic
author. I am proofreading his books for Bookshare. The Thoene books are
also on Bookshare.

Right now I don't have much energy for writing. That will have to be a
gift of the Lord. I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will eventually
surpass the best of commercial software. You can learn about it at
http://www.abilitiessoft.com . And if you want to see any fiction by me,
please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.

Thanks,
John

On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
> Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
> I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about jewish
> persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish fiction", but I
> know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The Chosen"? That
> was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd like to 
> read
> the book. It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2 rabbis with
> radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie if this was
> pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of the boys.)
>
> As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women living in the
> more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not fiction.
> For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well written 
> novel
> about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not religious,
> though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim man, and 
> the
> only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part of the
> Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.
>
> That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
> Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
> Happy reading.
> --laura
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John J. Boyer" <john at godtouches.org>
> To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in
> theirfiction
>
>
> I've seen a lot of Christian fiction. Now I would like to see some
> genuine Jewish fiction. I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't really a
> believer. It would also be interesting to see some fiction by genuine
> believers in Islam and Buddhism. I'm making a sort of study of religious
> fiction.
>
> Thanks and prayers,
> John
>
> -- 
> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> http://www.godtouches.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> Peace, Love, Service
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org

-- 
John J. Boyer, Executive Director
GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
http://www.godtouches.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Peace, Love, Service


_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com 




From kk3f at msn.com  Tue Feb  2 22:24:07 2010
From: kk3f at msn.com (pat gormley)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:24:07 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><BLU0-SMTP845072FA0C9EE36A9F523F90570@phx.gbl>
	<B3E765654DD94E8FACF8E799B93E16D3@DGQ81V31>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP65694D6803CD9DCA28265A90570@phx.gbl>

Maybe we should get Father John from this list to talk some sense into their 
heads.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "devona able" <djasister at windstream.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


>I would too.
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: pat gormley
>  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:25 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>  I'd change churches and let the pastor know why you are doing so.
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>  To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>  <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:55 AM
>  Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>  >I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>  >because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did 
> you
>  >respond? RJ
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Faith-talk mailing list
>  > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  > Faith-talk:
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>  >
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Faith-talk mailing list
>  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
> 




From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 22:49:07 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:49:07 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><BLU0-SMTP845072FA0C9EE36A9F523F90570@phx.gbl><B3E765654DD94E8FACF8E799B93E16D3@DGQ81V31>
	<4383d01d1002020956m3f3a6c5cid15f033fa199a488@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7E5A4EB9C7DE42E4AE7EAA74EF39085B@hometwxakonvzn>

How did that make you feel? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


>I was prevented from being an altar girl in the Catholic school church
> I attended.  I was not happy with it, and because of it, I'm changing
> churches.
> Beth
>
> On 2/2/10, devona able <djasister at windstream.net> wrote:
>> I would too.
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: pat gormley
>>   To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>   Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:25 AM
>>   Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>
>>   I'd change churches and let the pastor know why you are doing so.
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>   To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>   <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>   Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:55 AM
>>   Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>
>>   >I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>>   >because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did
>> you
>>   >respond? RJ
>>   > _______________________________________________
>>   > Faith-talk mailing list
>>   > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>   > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>   > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>   > Faith-talk:
>>   >
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>>   >
>>
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>>   Faith-talk mailing list
>>   Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>   http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 23:12:29 2010
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:12:29 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <7E5A4EB9C7DE42E4AE7EAA74EF39085B@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<BLU0-SMTP845072FA0C9EE36A9F523F90570@phx.gbl>
	<B3E765654DD94E8FACF8E799B93E16D3@DGQ81V31>
	<4383d01d1002020956m3f3a6c5cid15f033fa199a488@mail.gmail.com>
	<7E5A4EB9C7DE42E4AE7EAA74EF39085B@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <4383d01d1002021512j6b07dc72i98bb62f575e3a931@mail.gmail.com>

It made me feel like I was less than a person.  It was not only the
prevention of me from serving as an altar girl, but the prevention of
me from being a lead part in the play for Christmas and the Passion.
Beth

On 2/2/10, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> How did that make you feel? RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>>I was prevented from being an altar girl in the Catholic school church
>> I attended.  I was not happy with it, and because of it, I'm changing
>> churches.
>> Beth
>>
>> On 2/2/10, devona able <djasister at windstream.net> wrote:
>>> I would too.
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>   From: pat gormley
>>>   To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>   Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:25 AM
>>>   Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>
>>>
>>>   I'd change churches and let the pastor know why you are doing so.
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>   From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>   To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>   <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>   Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:55 AM
>>>   Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>
>>>
>>>   >I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>>>   >because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did
>>> you
>>>   >respond? RJ
>>>   > _______________________________________________
>>>   > Faith-talk mailing list
>>>   > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>   > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>   > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>   > Faith-talk:
>>>   >
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>>>   >
>>>
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>   Faith-talk mailing list
>>>   Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>   http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 23:24:18 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:24:18 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><BLU0-SMTP845072FA0C9EE36A9F523F90570@phx.gbl><B3E765654DD94E8FACF8E799B93E16D3@DGQ81V31><4383d01d1002020956m3f3a6c5cid15f033fa199a488@mail.gmail.com><7E5A4EB9C7DE42E4AE7EAA74EF39085B@hometwxakonvzn>
	<4383d01d1002021512j6b07dc72i98bb62f575e3a931@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C8F67874901A40569C8D3D8AA87D1D18@hometwxakonvzn>

Was this resent? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> It made me feel like I was less than a person.  It was not only the
> prevention of me from serving as an altar girl, but the prevention of
> me from being a lead part in the play for Christmas and the Passion.
> Beth
>
> On 2/2/10, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>> How did that make you feel? RJ
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>
>>>I was prevented from being an altar girl in the Catholic school church
>>> I attended.  I was not happy with it, and because of it, I'm changing
>>> churches.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> On 2/2/10, devona able <djasister at windstream.net> wrote:
>>>> I would too.
>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>   From: pat gormley
>>>>   To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:25 AM
>>>>   Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   I'd change churches and let the pastor know why you are doing so.
>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>   From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>>   To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>   <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:55 AM
>>>>   Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   >I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been 
>>>> told
>>>>   >because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How 
>>>> did
>>>> you
>>>>   >respond? RJ
>>>>   > _______________________________________________
>>>>   > Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>   > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>   > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>   > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>>   > Faith-talk:
>>>>   >
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>>>>   >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>>   Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>   Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>   http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 00:13:44 2010
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:13:44 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <C8F67874901A40569C8D3D8AA87D1D18@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<BLU0-SMTP845072FA0C9EE36A9F523F90570@phx.gbl>
	<B3E765654DD94E8FACF8E799B93E16D3@DGQ81V31>
	<4383d01d1002020956m3f3a6c5cid15f033fa199a488@mail.gmail.com>
	<7E5A4EB9C7DE42E4AE7EAA74EF39085B@hometwxakonvzn>
	<4383d01d1002021512j6b07dc72i98bb62f575e3a931@mail.gmail.com>
	<C8F67874901A40569C8D3D8AA87D1D18@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <4383d01d1002021613v56f09b2cj9b309a0001e6e233@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, you could say so.  I don't like the lesser roles that women have
to play in that church as well.  It's like this: if my daughter came
up to me and said, "Mommy, why can't I go up and speak at church?"
I'll have to tell her because she's female.  But if I were in some
other church, a Protestant or otherwise female-friendly church, the
same daughter would actually get to realize her dreams.
Beth

On 2/2/10, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> Was this resent? RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>> It made me feel like I was less than a person.  It was not only the
>> prevention of me from serving as an altar girl, but the prevention of
>> me from being a lead part in the play for Christmas and the Passion.
>> Beth
>>
>> On 2/2/10, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> How did that make you feel? RJ
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:56 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>
>>>
>>>>I was prevented from being an altar girl in the Catholic school church
>>>> I attended.  I was not happy with it, and because of it, I'm changing
>>>> churches.
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> On 2/2/10, devona able <djasister at windstream.net> wrote:
>>>>> I would too.
>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>   From: pat gormley
>>>>>   To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:25 AM
>>>>>   Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   I'd change churches and let the pastor know why you are doing so.
>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>   From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>>>   To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>   <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:55 AM
>>>>>   Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   >I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been
>>>>> told
>>>>>   >because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How
>>>>> did
>>>>> you
>>>>>   >respond? RJ
>>>>>   > _______________________________________________
>>>>>   > Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>   > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>   > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>   > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>>   > Faith-talk:
>>>>>   >
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>>>>>   >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>>>   Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>   Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>   http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 02:05:42 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:05:42 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><BLU0-SMTP845072FA0C9EE36A9F523F90570@phx.gbl><B3E765654DD94E8FACF8E799B93E16D3@DGQ81V31><4383d01d1002020956m3f3a6c5cid15f033fa199a488@mail.gmail.com><7E5A4EB9C7DE42E4AE7EAA74EF39085B@hometwxakonvzn><4383d01d1002021512j6b07dc72i98bb62f575e3a931@mail.gmail.com><C8F67874901A40569C8D3D8AA87D1D18@hometwxakonvzn>
	<4383d01d1002021613v56f09b2cj9b309a0001e6e233@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <73923626C296463B9ED892F033C3763D@hometwxakonvzn>

The Episkipal church Does have women priests. Mabie you should check them 
out. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Yes, you could say so.  I don't like the lesser roles that women have
> to play in that church as well.  It's like this: if my daughter came
> up to me and said, "Mommy, why can't I go up and speak at church?"
> I'll have to tell her because she's female.  But if I were in some
> other church, a Protestant or otherwise female-friendly church, the
> same daughter would actually get to realize her dreams.
> Beth
>
> On 2/2/10, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Was this resent? RJ
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>
>>> It made me feel like I was less than a person.  It was not only the
>>> prevention of me from serving as an altar girl, but the prevention of
>>> me from being a lead part in the play for Christmas and the Passion.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> On 2/2/10, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> How did that make you feel? RJ
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:56 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I was prevented from being an altar girl in the Catholic school church
>>>>> I attended.  I was not happy with it, and because of it, I'm changing
>>>>> churches.
>>>>> Beth
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/2/10, devona able <djasister at windstream.net> wrote:
>>>>>> I would too.
>>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>   From: pat gormley
>>>>>>   To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:25 AM
>>>>>>   Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   I'd change churches and let the pastor know why you are doing so.
>>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>   From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>>>>   To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>   <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:55 AM
>>>>>>   Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   >I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been
>>>>>> told
>>>>>>   >because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How
>>>>>> did
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>   >respond? RJ
>>>>>>   > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>   > Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>   > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>   > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>   > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>   > Faith-talk:
>>>>>>   >
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>>>>   Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>   Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>   http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From john at godtouches.org  Wed Feb  3 04:11:42 2010
From: john at godtouches.org (John J. Boyer)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:11:42 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in
	theirfiction
In-Reply-To: <190464.59706.qm@web110803.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <20100201143039.GA28453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
	<DEADE8E721684C4CBE80A76E20803906@bassclef>
	<20100202051040.GA26453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
	<1ff3a0e11002020243v11893ec2nc9445f4d144b6add@mail.gmail.com>
	<190464.59706.qm@web110803.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100203041142.GA32729@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>

Glad to see you on this list, Father. I don't know if the C. S. Lewis 
books are on Bookshare. The last time I looked they weren't. There may 
be a copyright issue. NLS has the second in hard-copy braille. The first 
is available in hand-copied form. I don't know about the third.

John

On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 07:23:04AM -0800, Fr. John Sheehan wrote:
> Out of the Silent Plant
> Perelandra
> That Hideous Strength
> Great sci-fi but with depth and a Christian underpinning. 
>  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
> Chairman
> 
> 
> Xavier Society for the Blind
> 154 East 23rd St
> New York, NY 10010
> (212) 473-7800
> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:43:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in theirfiction
> 
> John, your post also reminded me of C.S. Lewis's science fiction
> trilogy, which you are probably already aware of. If not, you should
> check them out. I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself yet but
> have heard they are good.
> 
> Greg
> 
> On 2/1/10, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
> > Laura,
> >
> > thanks for the info. I am interested in writing historical and science
> > fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic, perspective. So
> > many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or at least
> > don't take religion seriously. There is an extensive set of books by
> > Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors are
> > Christian. They are very pro-Jewish. The books cover the period leading
> > up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel. there are also some with
> > Biblical themes. An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl. He wrote
> > novels about various Christian and biblical figures. He is a Catholic
> > author. I am proofreading his books for Bookshare. The Thoene books are
> > also on Bookshare.
> >
> > Right now I don't have much energy for writing. That will have to be a
> > gift of the Lord. I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
> > open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will eventually
> > surpass the best of commercial software. You can learn about it at
> > http://www.abilitiessoft.com . And if you want to see any fiction by me,
> > please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > John
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
> >> Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
> >> I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about jewish
> >> persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish fiction", but I
> >> know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The Chosen"? That
> >> was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd like to
> >> read
> >> the book. It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2 rabbis with
> >> radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie if this was
> >>
> >> pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of the boys.)
> >>
> >> As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women living in the
> >>
> >> more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not fiction.
> >> For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well written
> >> novel
> >> about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not religious,
> >> though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim man, and
> >> the
> >> only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part of the
> >> Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.
> >>
> >> That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
> >> Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
> >> Happy reading.
> >> --laura
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John J. Boyer" <john at godtouches.org>
> >> To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
> >> Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in
> >> theirfiction
> >>
> >>
> >> I've seen a lot of Christian fiction. Now I would like to see some
> >> genuine Jewish fiction. I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't really a
> >> believer. It would also be interesting to see some fiction by genuine
> >> believers in Islam and Buddhism. I'm making a sort of study of religious
> >> fiction.
> >>
> >> Thanks and prayers,
> >> John
> >>
> >> --
> >> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> >> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> >> http://www.godtouches.org
> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> >> Peace, Love, Service
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Faith-talk mailing list
> >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Faith-talk:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Faith-talk mailing list
> >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Faith-talk:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
> >
> > --
> > John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> > GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> > http://www.godtouches.org
> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> > Peace, Love, Service
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Faith-talk mailing list
> > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Faith-talk:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org

-- 
John J. Boyer, Executive Director
GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
http://www.godtouches.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Peace, Love, Service




From john at godtouches.org  Wed Feb  3 04:20:38 2010
From: john at godtouches.org (John J. Boyer)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:20:38 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
	intheirfiction
In-Reply-To: <CB75EF26B7A7425AAA15A4DDEB3ECD75@bassclef>
References: <20100202051040.GA26453@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
	<CB75EF26B7A7425AAA15A4DDEB3ECD75@bassclef>
Message-ID: <20100203042038.GB32729@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>

Hi, Laura,

My thoughts about the Thoene books are similar to yours. In all of them 
that take place in Palestine Muslim men are portrayed as evil, except 
for the king of Jordan. There are a couple of Muslim kids who get 
favorable treatment. the books do have too much suspense, but they are 
good reads nevertheless.

I'll look for the other books you describe when I have more energy.

John

On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 01:50:33PM -0600, qubit wrote:
> Hi John --
> I have read 4 of the series of books by Bodie and Brock Thoene -- actually 
> their last name is pronounced "Tainy" but jaws butchers that to "thone".
> The books were quite picturesque, and had an interesting story following a 
> mixed group of characters, but I thought they were also a bit overly 
> melodramatic.  Also, in the 4th book about the conflict in Israel, the 
> muslim characters were portrayed as being all incredibly evil, except for 
> one woman who converted to Christianity.  I know there is truth in some of 
> the negative stereotypes, but the book paints a picture that is wholely 
> one-sided, especially in reference to muslim men, who are all portrayed as 
> thinking of nothing but cruelty, violence and sex.  So I liked the books 
> except for this simplification of the issues.
> Also, the story took place during and after ww2, which is old news now. In 
> fact my mother, who lived through that era, wondered why I was reading it.
> As for the 2 books I mentioned, I know "The Chosen" was written by a jewish 
> man, and "Kite Runner" was written by a muslim man from Afghanistan.  So 
> they are authentic.  That is one reason I liked them.  I like knowing the 
> thought process of the persons living there, and reading a book by a native 
> author is the best way of getting that.
> Hey, good luck at your goal of fiction writing.  I have considered doing 
> that myself, but the thing that holds me back is that I'm so precise about 
> what I write that it's hard to be creative.  Since you have the same 
> background of math and computer science, I am wondering if you are bitten by 
> the same bug.  But your perspective would be very interesting.
> I look forward to reading anything you write.  And if I write I will be sure 
> to send a copy when I'm done.
> Take care, and yes I'll keep you in my prayers.
> --le
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John J. Boyer" <john at godtouches.org>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 11:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith 
> intheirfiction
> 
> 
> Laura,
> 
> thanks for the info. I am interested in writing historical and science
> fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic, perspective. So
> many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or at least
> don't take religion seriously. There is an extensive set of books by
> Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors are
> Christian. They are very pro-Jewish. The books cover the period leading
> up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel. there are also some with
> Biblical themes. An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl. He wrote
> novels about various Christian and biblical figures. He is a Catholic
> author. I am proofreading his books for Bookshare. The Thoene books are
> also on Bookshare.
> 
> Right now I don't have much energy for writing. That will have to be a
> gift of the Lord. I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
> open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will eventually
> surpass the best of commercial software. You can learn about it at
> http://www.abilitiessoft.com . And if you want to see any fiction by me,
> please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> 
> On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
> > Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
> > I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about jewish
> > persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish fiction", but I
> > know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The Chosen"? That
> > was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd like to 
> > read
> > the book. It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2 rabbis with
> > radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie if this was
> > pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of the boys.)
> >
> > As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women living in the
> > more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not fiction.
> > For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well written 
> > novel
> > about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not religious,
> > though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim man, and 
> > the
> > only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part of the
> > Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.
> >
> > That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
> > Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
> > Happy reading.
> > --laura
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "John J. Boyer" <john at godtouches.org>
> > To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
> > Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in
> > theirfiction
> >
> >
> > I've seen a lot of Christian fiction. Now I would like to see some
> > genuine Jewish fiction. I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't really a
> > believer. It would also be interesting to see some fiction by genuine
> > believers in Islam and Buddhism. I'm making a sort of study of religious
> > fiction.
> >
> > Thanks and prayers,
> > John
> >
> > -- 
> > John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> > GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> > http://www.godtouches.org
> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> > Peace, Love, Service
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Faith-talk mailing list
> > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Faith-talk:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Faith-talk mailing list
> > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> > Faith-talk:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
> 
> -- 
> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> http://www.godtouches.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> Peace, Love, Service
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org

-- 
John J. Boyer, Executive Director
GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
http://www.godtouches.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Peace, Love, Service




From john at godtouches.org  Wed Feb  3 04:42:13 2010
From: john at godtouches.org (John J. Boyer)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:42:13 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
	intheirfiction
In-Reply-To: <4b686dab.4744f10a.27c2.2009SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
References: <4b686dab.4744f10a.27c2.2009SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20100203044213.GD32729@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>

Mary,

No need to be embarrassed. I'm Catholic, but I share the Pope's emphasis 
on dialogue with other Christian groups and other religions. As for 
scifi, I've become wary of reading it because so many of the well-known 
authors are atheists and their books are often full of erotica.

Prayers and blessings,
John

On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 02:05:16PM -0500, mary wurtzel wrote:
> Hello,
> I feel kind of embarrassed about my message not knowing your 
> cridentials!!!!
> Mary
> 
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Fr.  John Sheehan" <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com
> >To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:23:04 -0800 (PST)
> >Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their 
> Faith intheirfiction
> 
> >Out of the Silent Plant
> >Perelandra
> >That Hideous Strength
> >Great sci-fi but with depth and a Christian underpinning.
> >Fr.  John R.  Sheehan, SJ
> >Chairman
> 
> 
> >Xavier Society for the Blind
> >154 East 23rd St
> >New York, NY 10010
> >(212) 473-7800
> >Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
> searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - 
> www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money 
> for us! Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >________________________________
> >From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
> >To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:43:15 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their 
> Faith in theirfiction
> 
> >John, your post also reminded me of C.S.  Lewis's science fiction
> >trilogy, which you are probably already aware of.  If not, you 
> should
> >check them out.  I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself 
> yet but
> >have heard they are good.
> 
> >Greg
> 
> >On 2/1/10, John J.  Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
> >>Laura,
> 
> >>thanks for the info.  I am interested in writing historical and 
> science
> >>fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic, 
> perspective.  So
> >>many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or 
> at least
> >>don't take religion seriously.  There is an extensive set of 
> books by
> >>Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors 
> are
> >>Christian.  They are very pro-Jewish.  The books cover the 
> period leading
> >>up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel.  there are also 
> some with
> >>Biblical themes.  An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl.  
> He wrote
> >>novels about various Christian and biblical figures.  He is a 
> Catholic
> >>author.  I am proofreading his books for Bookshare.  The Thoene 
> books are
> >>also on Bookshare.
> 
> >>Right now I don't have much energy for writing.  That will have 
> to be a
> >>gift of the Lord.  I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
> >>open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will 
> eventually
> >>surpass the best of commercial software.  You can learn about it 
> at
> >>http://www.abilitiessoft.com .  And if you want to see any 
> fiction by me,
> >>please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.
> 
> >>Thanks,
> >>John
> 
> >>On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
> >>>Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
> >>>I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about 
> jewish
> >>>persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish 
> fiction", but I
> >>>know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The 
> Chosen"? That
> >>>was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd 
> like to
> >>>read
> >>>the book.  It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2 
> rabbis with
> >>>radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie 
> if this was
> 
> >>>pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of 
> the boys.)
> 
> >>>As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women 
> living in the
> 
> >>>more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not 
> fiction.
> >>>For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well 
> written
> >>>novel
> >>>about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not 
> religious,
> >>>though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim 
> man, and
> >>>the
> >>>only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part 
> of the
> >>>Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.
> 
> >>>That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
> >>>Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
> >>>Happy reading.
> >>>--laura
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
> >>>To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >>>Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
> >>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith 
> in
> >>>theirfiction
> 
> 
> >>>I've seen a lot of Christian fiction.  Now I would like to see 
> some
> >>>genuine Jewish fiction.  I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't 
> really a
> >>>believer.  It would also be interesting to see some fiction by 
> genuine
> >>>believers in Islam and Buddhism.  I'm making a sort of study of 
> religious
> >>>fiction.
> 
> >>>Thanks and prayers,
> >>>John
> 
> >>>--
> >>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
> >>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> >>>http://www.godtouches.org
> >>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> >>>Peace, Love, Service
> 
> 
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Faith-talk mailing list
> >>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for
> >>>Faith-talk:
> >>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/laura
> eaves%40yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Faith-talk mailing list
> >>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for
> >>>Faith-talk:
> >>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
> 40godtouches.org
> 
> >>--
> >>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
> >>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> >>http://www.godtouches.org
> >>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> >>Peace, Love, Service
> 
> 
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Faith-talk mailing list
> >>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for
> >>Faith-talk:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaik
> ens%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> >_______________________________________________
> >Faith-talk mailing list
> >Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for Faith-talk:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xavie
> rsocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >_______________________________________________
> >Faith-talk mailing list
> >Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for Faith-talk:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
> urtzel%40comcast.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org

-- 
John J. Boyer, Executive Director
GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
http://www.godtouches.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Peace, Love, Service




From eric at pmpmail.com  Wed Feb  3 08:19:03 2010
From: eric at pmpmail.com (Eric Calhoun)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 02:19:03 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] FW: Beejay Re: [URCTCPrayerGroup2] URCTC Prayer Group
	2 Devotional: Receiving Forgiveness by Joyce Meyer
Message-ID: <20100203081921.1A0B32AF5BE@node77.smtp.com>



Original Message: 
From: Susan <dancerprancer7 at yahoo.com>
To: URCTCPrayerGroup2 at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Beejay Re: [URCTCPrayerGroup2] URCTC Prayer Group 2  Devotional:
Receiving Forgiveness by Joyce Meyer
Date: 
Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:52:01 -0800 (PST)















Receiving Forgiveness



If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is
faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive
our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all
unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose,
thought, and action].? 
-1 John?1:9

Many years ago when I was first developing my relationship with the Lord,
each night I would beg His forgiveness for my past sins. One evening as I
knelt beside my bed, I heard the Lord say to me, "Joyce, I forgave you the
first time you asked, but you have not received My gift of forgiveness
because you have not forgiven yourself." Have you received God's gift of
forgiveness? If you have not, and you are ready to do so, ask the Lord to
forgive you for all your sins right now. Then pray this aloud: 

Lord, I receive forgiveness for (name the sin), in Christ Jesus. I
forgive myself and accept your gift of forgiveness as my own. I believe
that you remove the sin from me completely, putting it at a distance where
it can never be found again-as far as the east is from the west. And I
believe. Lord, that you remember it no more. 

You will find that speaking aloud is often helpful to you because by
doing so you are declaring your stand upon God's Word. The devil cannot
read your mind but he does understand your words. Declare before all the
principalities, powers, and rulers of darkness (See Ephesians 6:12)
that??Christ has set you free and that you intend to walk in that freedom.
?
When you speak, sound as though you mean it! If the devil tries to bring
that sin to your mind again in the form of guilt and condemnation, repeat
your declaration, telling him: "I was forgiven for that sin! It has been
taken care of-therefore, I take no care for it."?

?
>From the book New Day, New You: 365 Devotions for Enjoying Everyday Life
by Joyce Meyer. Copyright ? 2007 by Joyce Meyer. Published by FaithWords.
All rights reserved.???
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????? 





      

From morningglow at verizon.net  Wed Feb  3 10:56:26 2010
From: morningglow at verizon.net (Moria)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:56:26 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
 intheirfiction
In-Reply-To: <20100203041142.GA32729@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
Message-ID: <0KX900F51IEA8YJA@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>

When I looked for them on Bookshare, they were there.  I've been wanting to
read them; I have a friend who's written fan fiction based on them.

Masha
 

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of John J. Boyer
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:12 PM
To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
intheirfiction

Glad to see you on this list, Father. I don't know if the C. S. Lewis books
are on Bookshare. The last time I looked they weren't. There may be a
copyright issue. NLS has the second in hard-copy braille. The first is
available in hand-copied form. I don't know about the third.

John

On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 07:23:04AM -0800, Fr. John Sheehan wrote:
> Out of the Silent Plant
> Perelandra
> That Hideous Strength
> Great sci-fi but with depth and a Christian underpinning. 
>  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
> Chairman
> 
> 
> Xavier Society for the Blind
> 154 East 23rd St
> New York, NY 10010
> (212) 473-7800
> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:43:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith 
> in theirfiction
> 
> John, your post also reminded me of C.S. Lewis's science fiction 
> trilogy, which you are probably already aware of. If not, you should 
> check them out. I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself yet but 
> have heard they are good.
> 
> Greg
> 
> On 2/1/10, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
> > Laura,
> >
> > thanks for the info. I am interested in writing historical and 
> > science fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic, 
> > perspective. So many of the well-known science-fiction authors are 
> > atheists or at least don't take religion seriously. There is an 
> > extensive set of books by Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish 
> > protogonists, but the authors are Christian. They are very 
> > pro-Jewish. The books cover the period leading up to World War 2 and 
> > the founding of Israel. there are also some with Biblical themes. An 
> > almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl. He wrote novels about 
> > various Christian and biblical figures. He is a Catholic author. I 
> > am proofreading his books for Bookshare. The Thoene books are also on
Bookshare.
> >
> > Right now I don't have much energy for writing. That will have to be 
> > a gift of the Lord. I'm putting what energy I have into my free, 
> > open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will 
> > eventually surpass the best of commercial software. You can learn 
> > about it at http://www.abilitiessoft.com . And if you want to see 
> > any fiction by me, please pray that I will be given the necessary
energy.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > John
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
> >> Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
> >> I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about 
> >> jewish persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish 
> >> fiction", but I know they are out there.  Have you ever read the 
> >> novel "The Chosen"? That was made into a movie which was truely an 
> >> excellent flick.  I'd like to read the book. It's about 2 young 
> >> jewish friends who wer sons of 2 rabbis with radically different 
> >> views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie if this was
> >>
> >> pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of the 
> >> boys.)
> >>
> >> As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women living 
> >> in the
> >>
> >> more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not
fiction.
> >> For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well 
> >> written novel about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was 
> >> not religious, though -- the protagonist was the son of a 
> >> non-believing muslim man, and the only religious persons in the 
> >> book were either poor or else part of the Taliban and therefore 
> >> extremely violent and oppressive.
> >>
> >> That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
> >> Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
> >> Happy reading.
> >> --laura
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John J. Boyer" <john at godtouches.org>
> >> To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
> >> Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith in 
> >> theirfiction
> >>
> >>
> >> I've seen a lot of Christian fiction. Now I would like to see some 
> >> genuine Jewish fiction. I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't 
> >> really a believer. It would also be interesting to see some fiction 
> >> by genuine believers in Islam and Buddhism. I'm making a sort of 
> >> study of religious fiction.
> >>
> >> Thanks and prayers,
> >> John
> >>
> >> --
> >> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> >> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> >> http://www.godtouches.org
> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> >> Peace, Love, Service
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Faith-talk mailing list
> >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> >> for
> >> Faith-talk:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraea
> >> ves%40yahoo.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Faith-talk mailing list
> >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> >> for
> >> Faith-talk:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40
> >> godtouches.org
> >
> > --
> > John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> > GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> > http://www.godtouches.org
> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> > Peace, Love, Service
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Faith-talk mailing list
> > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > for
> > Faith-talk:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaikens
> > %40gmail.com
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersoci
> etyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40god
> touches.org

--
John J. Boyer, Executive Director
GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
http://www.godtouches.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Peace, Love, Service


_______________________________________________
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rizon.net




From xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 13:48:15 2010
From: xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com (Fr. John Sheehan)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 05:48:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
	intheirfiction
Message-ID: <159540.510.qm@web110815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Thomas Costain did great historical novels - The Silver Chalice focused around creating a setting to hold the Holy Grail, and as usual, the historical aspects were spot on.
 Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: mary wurtzel <marywurtzel at comcast.net>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 2:01:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith intheirfiction

Dear John,
The C.  S.  Lewis books are great.  If you want to go back, there are Christian authors such as Lloyd C.  Douglas who wrote The Robe and other books.  I think the author was Thomas Costain but cannot be sure who wrote The Challice.  I guess you said science fiction, I forgot.
God bless!!
Mary

_______________________________________________
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From albert at myblindspot.org  Wed Feb  3 14:02:57 2010
From: albert at myblindspot.org (Albert J Rizzi)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:02:57 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>

Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include braille
in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during the
service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his table.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn


-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you
respond? RJ
_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
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spot.org




From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:44:42 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:44:42 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
Message-ID: <0F116961049E4C72ABBDB8BCBB206F09@hometwxakonvzn>

What church do you attend? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion'" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include 
> braille
> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during the
> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his table.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you
> respond? RJ
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
> spot.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From bethkats at samobile.net  Wed Feb  3 17:37:03 2010
From: bethkats at samobile.net (Beth Kats)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:37:03 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Welcome to all new comers to thre list
Message-ID: <20100203173703.5621.44817@web3.serotek.com>

Deear Lisa,
Welcome to this list!  I also have a problem with overeating, but 
lately, I'm doing quite well!
I'm totally blind and I live on my own.  I've been on this list for 
quite some time, but was off for a while because my e-mail changed and 
had to resubscribe.
I use System Access Mobile Network for my screen reader.  You get it 
from Serotech.
Welcome once again!
Beth

-- 
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.



From marywurtzel at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 01:24:46 2010
From: marywurtzel at comcast.net (mary wurtzel)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:24:46 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
	Faithintheirfiction
Message-ID: <mailman.10.1593447327.15261.faith-talk_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Dear Father John,
Thank you for your understanding.
I am chuckling, wondering what you think of Andrew Greeley's 
books.
I do like the Blackie Ryan books.  I'm not quite as taken with 
the ones  about the Irish folk singer, Nula.
Inthe past, it seemed to me that some Christian books were 
feather weights, such as Janette Oakes.  Karen Kingsbury is more 
contemporary.  She is still on the light side, but perhaps with a 
bit more plot development.
Mary P.S.  On another topic.  We are not doing Kernel books  as 
such, but maybe some literature about the things people do to 
serve their faith communities would help.  I think it was Jim 
Omvig who had an artile inthe Monitor once.

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:42:13 -0600
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their 
Faithintheirfiction

>Mary,

>No need to be embarrassed.  I'm Catholic, but I share the Pope's 
emphasis
>on dialogue with other Christian groups and other religions.  As 
for
>scifi, I've become wary of reading it because so many of the 
well-known
>authors are atheists and their books are often full of erotica.

>Prayers and blessings,
>John

>On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 02:05:16PM -0500, mary wurtzel wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I feel kind of embarrassed about my message not knowing your
>> cridentials!!!!
>> Mary

>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Fr.  John Sheehan" <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com
>>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:23:04 -0800 (PST)
>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>> Faith intheirfiction

>>>Out of the Silent Plant
>>>Perelandra
>>>That Hideous Strength
>>>Great sci-fi but with depth and a Christian underpinning.
>>>Fr.  John R.  Sheehan, SJ
>>>Chairman


>>>Xavier Society for the Blind
>>>154 East 23rd St
>>>New York, NY 10010
>>>(212) 473-7800
>>>Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>> searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch -
>> www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money
>> for us! Thank you.




>>>________________________________
>>>From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:43:15 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>> Faith in theirfiction

>>>John, your post also reminded me of C.S.  Lewis's science fiction
>>>trilogy, which you are probably already aware of.  If not, you
>> should
>>>check them out.  I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself
>> yet but
>>>have heard they are good.

>>>Greg

>>>On 2/1/10, John J.  Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>Laura,

>>>>thanks for the info.  I am interested in writing historical and
>> science
>>>>fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic,
>> perspective.  So
>>>>many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or
>> at least
>>>>don't take religion seriously.  There is an extensive set of
>> books by
>>>>Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors
>> are
>>>>Christian.  They are very pro-Jewish.  The books cover the
>> period leading
>>>>up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel.  there are also
>> some with
>>>>Biblical themes.  An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl.
>> He wrote
>>>>novels about various Christian and biblical figures.  He is a
>> Catholic
>>>>author.  I am proofreading his books for Bookshare.  The Thoene
>> books are
>>>>also on Bookshare.

>>>>Right now I don't have much energy for writing.  That will have
>> to be a
>>>>gift of the Lord.  I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
>>>>open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will
>> eventually
>>>>surpass the best of commercial software.  You can learn about it
>> at
>>>>http://www.abilitiessoft.com .  And if you want to see any
>> fiction by me,
>>>>please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.

>>>>Thanks,
>>>>John

>>>>On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
>>>>>Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
>>>>>I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about
>> jewish
>>>>>persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish
>> fiction", but I
>>>>>know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The
>> Chosen"? That
>>>>>was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd
>> like to
>>>>>read
>>>>>the book.  It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2
>> rabbis with
>>>>>radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie
>> if this was

>>>>>pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of
>> the boys.)

>>>>>As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women
>> living in the

>>>>>more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not
>> fiction.
>>>>>For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well
>> written
>>>>>novel
>>>>>about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not
>> religious,
>>>>>though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim
>> man, and
>>>>>the
>>>>>only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part
>> of the
>>>>>Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.

>>>>>That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
>>>>>Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
>>>>>Happy reading.
>>>>>--laura
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>>>>>To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
>>>>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
>> in
>>>>>theirfiction


>>>>>I've seen a lot of Christian fiction.  Now I would like to see
>> some
>>>>>genuine Jewish fiction.  I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't
>> really a
>>>>>believer.  It would also be interesting to see some fiction by
>> genuine
>>>>>believers in Islam and Buddhism.  I'm making a sort of study of
>> religious
>>>>>fiction.

>>>>>Thanks and prayers,
>>>>>John

>>>>>--
>>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>Peace, Love, Service


>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>>Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/laura
>> eaves%40yahoo.com



>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>>Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
>> 40godtouches.org

>>>>--
>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>Peace, Love, Service


>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaik
>> ens%40gmail.com


>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xavie
>> rsocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com




>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>> urtzel%40comcast.net

>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
40godtouches.org

>--
>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>http://www.godtouches.org
>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>Peace, Love, Service


>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
urtzel%40comcast.net



From kk3f at msn.com  Thu Feb  4 00:48:14 2010
From: kk3f at msn.com (pat gormley)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:48:14 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express
	theirFaithintheirfiction
References: <BAY0-MC2-F47IXJpEMz00448f10@bay0-mc2-f47.Bay0.hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP9642BC024CCFBBFA8BF1C290550@phx.gbl>

Jim has written several articles particularly where he functioned as an 
elder in a church in Catonsville back in the 80's.  Dr. Elizabeth Brown also 
wrote a couple of articles pertaining to a book she wrote called the 
Disabled Disciple which was a commentary on the healing of Bartimaeus in 
chapter 8 of John's Gospel.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mary wurtzel" <marywurtzel at comcast.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express 
theirFaithintheirfiction


> Dear Father John,
> Thank you for your understanding.
> I am chuckling, wondering what you think of Andrew Greeley's books.
> I do like the Blackie Ryan books.  I'm not quite as taken with the ones 
> about the Irish folk singer, Nula.
> Inthe past, it seemed to me that some Christian books were feather 
> weights, such as Janette Oakes.  Karen Kingsbury is more contemporary. 
> She is still on the light side, but perhaps with a bit more plot 
> development.
> Mary P.S.  On another topic.  We are not doing Kernel books  as such, but 
> maybe some literature about the things people do to serve their faith 
> communities would help.  I think it was Jim Omvig who had an artile inthe 
> Monitor once.
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:42:13 -0600
>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
> Faithintheirfiction
>
>>Mary,
>
>>No need to be embarrassed.  I'm Catholic, but I share the Pope's
> emphasis
>>on dialogue with other Christian groups and other religions.  As
> for
>>scifi, I've become wary of reading it because so many of the
> well-known
>>authors are atheists and their books are often full of erotica.
>
>>Prayers and blessings,
>>John
>
>>On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 02:05:16PM -0500, mary wurtzel wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I feel kind of embarrassed about my message not knowing your
>>> cridentials!!!!
>>> Mary
>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Fr.  John Sheehan" <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com
>>>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:23:04 -0800 (PST)
>>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>>> Faith intheirfiction
>
>>>>Out of the Silent Plant
>>>>Perelandra
>>>>That Hideous Strength
>>>>Great sci-fi but with depth and a Christian underpinning.
>>>>Fr.  John R.  Sheehan, SJ
>>>>Chairman
>
>
>>>>Xavier Society for the Blind
>>>>154 East 23rd St
>>>>New York, NY 10010
>>>>(212) 473-7800
>>>>Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>>> searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch -
>>> www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money
>>> for us! Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>>>>________________________________
>>>>From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>>>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:43:15 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>>> Faith in theirfiction
>
>>>>John, your post also reminded me of C.S.  Lewis's science fiction
>>>>trilogy, which you are probably already aware of.  If not, you
>>> should
>>>>check them out.  I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself
>>> yet but
>>>>have heard they are good.
>
>>>>Greg
>
>>>>On 2/1/10, John J.  Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>Laura,
>
>>>>>thanks for the info.  I am interested in writing historical and
>>> science
>>>>>fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic,
>>> perspective.  So
>>>>>many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or
>>> at least
>>>>>don't take religion seriously.  There is an extensive set of
>>> books by
>>>>>Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors
>>> are
>>>>>Christian.  They are very pro-Jewish.  The books cover the
>>> period leading
>>>>>up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel.  there are also
>>> some with
>>>>>Biblical themes.  An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl.
>>> He wrote
>>>>>novels about various Christian and biblical figures.  He is a
>>> Catholic
>>>>>author.  I am proofreading his books for Bookshare.  The Thoene
>>> books are
>>>>>also on Bookshare.
>
>>>>>Right now I don't have much energy for writing.  That will have
>>> to be a
>>>>>gift of the Lord.  I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
>>>>>open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will
>>> eventually
>>>>>surpass the best of commercial software.  You can learn about it
>>> at
>>>>>http://www.abilitiessoft.com .  And if you want to see any
>>> fiction by me,
>>>>>please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.
>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>John
>
>>>>>On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
>>>>>>Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
>>>>>>I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about
>>> jewish
>>>>>>persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish
>>> fiction", but I
>>>>>>know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The
>>> Chosen"? That
>>>>>>was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd
>>> like to
>>>>>>read
>>>>>>the book.  It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2
>>> rabbis with
>>>>>>radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie
>>> if this was
>
>>>>>>pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of
>>> the boys.)
>
>>>>>>As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women
>>> living in the
>
>>>>>>more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not
>>> fiction.
>>>>>>For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well
>>> written
>>>>>>novel
>>>>>>about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not
>>> religious,
>>>>>>though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim
>>> man, and
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part
>>> of the
>>>>>>Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.
>
>>>>>>That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
>>>>>>Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
>>>>>>Happy reading.
>>>>>>--laura
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>>>>>>To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
>>>>>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
>>> in
>>>>>>theirfiction
>
>
>>>>>>I've seen a lot of Christian fiction.  Now I would like to see
>>> some
>>>>>>genuine Jewish fiction.  I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't
>>> really a
>>>>>>believer.  It would also be interesting to see some fiction by
>>> genuine
>>>>>>believers in Islam and Buddhism.  I'm making a sort of study of
>>> religious
>>>>>>fiction.
>
>>>>>>Thanks and prayers,
>>>>>>John
>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>Peace, Love, Service
>
>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>>>>>Faith-talk:
>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/laura
>>> eaves%40yahoo.com
>
>
>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>>>>>Faith-talk:
>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
>>> 40godtouches.org
>
>>>>>--
>>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>Peace, Love, Service
>
>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>>>>Faith-talk:
>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaik
>>> ens%40gmail.com
>
>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for Faith-talk:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xavie
>>> rsocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for Faith-talk:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>>> urtzel%40comcast.net
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
> 40godtouches.org
>
>>--
>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>Peace, Love, Service
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
> urtzel%40comcast.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
> 




From marywurtzel at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 15:50:29 2010
From: marywurtzel at comcast.net (mary wurtzel)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:50:29 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who
	expresstheirFaithintheirfiction
Message-ID: <mailman.11.1593447327.15261.faith-talk_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Dear Pat,
Do you know where I can get the book Disabled Disciple?  I always 
meant to read it.  Lent is coming, and I give up reading fiction 
during lent, isn't that a hoot!! It has been good for me, though.
Mary

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "pat gormley" <kk3f at msn.com
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:48:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who 
expresstheirFaithintheirfiction

>Jim has written several articles particularly where he functioned 
as an
>elder in a church in Catonsville back in the 80's.  Dr.  
Elizabeth Brown also
>wrote a couple of articles pertaining to a book she wrote called 
the
>Disabled Disciple which was a commentary on the healing of 
Bartimaeus in
>chapter 8 of John's Gospel.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "mary wurtzel" <marywurtzel at comcast.net
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
><faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:24 PM
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express
>theirFaithintheirfiction


>> Dear Father John,
>> Thank you for your understanding.
>> I am chuckling, wondering what you think of Andrew Greeley's 
books.
>> I do like the Blackie Ryan books.  I'm not quite as taken with 
the ones
>> about the Irish folk singer, Nula.
>> Inthe past, it seemed to me that some Christian books were 
feather
>> weights, such as Janette Oakes.  Karen Kingsbury is more 
contemporary.
>> She is still on the light side, but perhaps with a bit more plot
>> development.
>> Mary P.S.  On another topic.  We are not doing Kernel books  as 
such, but
>> maybe some literature about the things people do to serve their 
faith
>> communities would help.  I think it was Jim Omvig who had an 
artile inthe
>> Monitor once.

>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:42:13 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>> Faithintheirfiction

>>>Mary,

>>>No need to be embarrassed.  I'm Catholic, but I share the Pope's
>> emphasis
>>>on dialogue with other Christian groups and other religions.  As
>> for
>>>scifi, I've become wary of reading it because so many of the
>> well-known
>>>authors are atheists and their books are often full of erotica.

>>>Prayers and blessings,
>>>John

>>>On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 02:05:16PM -0500, mary wurtzel wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I feel kind of embarrassed about my message not knowing your
>>>> cridentials!!!!
>>>> Mary

>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Fr.  John Sheehan" <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com
>>>>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:23:04 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>>>> Faith intheirfiction

>>>>>Out of the Silent Plant
>>>>>Perelandra
>>>>>That Hideous Strength
>>>>>Great sci-fi but with depth and a Christian underpinning.
>>>>>Fr.  John R.  Sheehan, SJ
>>>>>Chairman


>>>>>Xavier Society for the Blind
>>>>>154 East 23rd St
>>>>>New York, NY 10010
>>>>>(212) 473-7800
>>>>>Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>>>> searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch -
>>>> www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money
>>>> for us! Thank you.




>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>>>>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:43:15 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>>>> Faith in theirfiction

>>>>>John, your post also reminded me of C.S.  Lewis's science fiction
>>>>>trilogy, which you are probably already aware of.  If not, you
>>>> should
>>>>>check them out.  I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself
>>>> yet but
>>>>>have heard they are good.

>>>>>Greg

>>>>>On 2/1/10, John J.  Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>Laura,

>>>>>>thanks for the info.  I am interested in writing historical and
>>>> science
>>>>>>fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic,
>>>> perspective.  So
>>>>>>many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or
>>>> at least
>>>>>>don't take religion seriously.  There is an extensive set of
>>>> books by
>>>>>>Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors
>>>> are
>>>>>>Christian.  They are very pro-Jewish.  The books cover the
>>>> period leading
>>>>>>up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel.  there are also
>>>> some with
>>>>>>Biblical themes.  An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl.
>>>> He wrote
>>>>>>novels about various Christian and biblical figures.  He is a
>>>> Catholic
>>>>>>author.  I am proofreading his books for Bookshare.  The Thoene
>>>> books are
>>>>>>also on Bookshare.

>>>>>>Right now I don't have much energy for writing.  That will have
>>>> to be a
>>>>>>gift of the Lord.  I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
>>>>>>open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will
>>>> eventually
>>>>>>surpass the best of commercial software.  You can learn about it
>>>> at
>>>>>>http://www.abilitiessoft.com .  And if you want to see any
>>>> fiction by me,
>>>>>>please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.

>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>John

>>>>>>On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
>>>>>>>Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
>>>>>>>I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about
>>>> jewish
>>>>>>>persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish
>>>> fiction", but I
>>>>>>>know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The
>>>> Chosen"? That
>>>>>>>was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd
>>>> like to
>>>>>>>read
>>>>>>>the book.  It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2
>>>> rabbis with
>>>>>>>radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie
>>>> if this was

>>>>>>>pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of
>>>> the boys.)

>>>>>>>As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women
>>>> living in the

>>>>>>>more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not
>>>> fiction.
>>>>>>>For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well
>>>> written
>>>>>>>novel
>>>>>>>about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not
>>>> religious,
>>>>>>>though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim
>>>> man, and
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part
>>>> of the
>>>>>>>Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.

>>>>>>>That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
>>>>>>>Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
>>>>>>>Happy reading.
>>>>>>>--laura
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>>>>>>>To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
>>>> in
>>>>>>>theirfiction


>>>>>>>I've seen a lot of Christian fiction.  Now I would like to see
>>>> some
>>>>>>>genuine Jewish fiction.  I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't
>>>> really a
>>>>>>>believer.  It would also be interesting to see some fiction by
>>>> genuine
>>>>>>>believers in Islam and Buddhism.  I'm making a sort of study of
>>>> religious
>>>>>>>fiction.

>>>>>>>Thanks and prayers,
>>>>>>>John

>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>Peace, Love, Service


>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>>>>>Faith-talk:


>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/laura
>>>> eaves%40yahoo.com



>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>>>>>Faith-talk:


>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
>>>> 40godtouches.org

>>>>>>--
>>>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>Peace, Love, Service


>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>>>>Faith-talk:


>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaik
>>>> ens%40gmail.com


>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for Faith-talk:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xavie
>>>> rsocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com




>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for Faith-talk:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>>>> urtzel%40comcast.net

>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>> Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
>> 40godtouches.org

>>>--
>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>Peace, Love, Service


>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>> urtzel%40comcast.net

>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%
40msn.com



>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
urtzel%40comcast.net



From kk3f at msn.com  Thu Feb  4 14:26:40 2010
From: kk3f at msn.com (pat gormley)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:26:40 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers
	whoexpresstheirFaithintheirfiction
References: <SNT0-MC3-F22XJKZLvi006290f9@SNT0-MC3-F2.Snt0.hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP64C0EF95A9D78C74D8FB4B90550@phx.gbl>

I believe the disabled disciple by Dr. Elizabeth Brown may be available from 
rfb and d.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mary wurtzel" <marywurtzel at comcast.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers 
whoexpresstheirFaithintheirfiction


> Dear Pat,
> Do you know where I can get the book Disabled Disciple?  I always meant to 
> read it.  Lent is coming, and I give up reading fiction during lent, isn't 
> that a hoot!! It has been good for me, though.
> Mary
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "pat gormley" <kk3f at msn.com
>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:48:14 -0500
>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who
> expresstheirFaithintheirfiction
>
>>Jim has written several articles particularly where he functioned
> as an
>>elder in a church in Catonsville back in the 80's.  Dr.
> Elizabeth Brown also
>>wrote a couple of articles pertaining to a book she wrote called
> the
>>Disabled Disciple which was a commentary on the healing of
> Bartimaeus in
>>chapter 8 of John's Gospel.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "mary wurtzel" <marywurtzel at comcast.net
>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>><faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:24 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express
>>theirFaithintheirfiction
>
>
>>> Dear Father John,
>>> Thank you for your understanding.
>>> I am chuckling, wondering what you think of Andrew Greeley's
> books.
>>> I do like the Blackie Ryan books.  I'm not quite as taken with
> the ones
>>> about the Irish folk singer, Nula.
>>> Inthe past, it seemed to me that some Christian books were
> feather
>>> weights, such as Janette Oakes.  Karen Kingsbury is more
> contemporary.
>>> She is still on the light side, but perhaps with a bit more plot
>>> development.
>>> Mary P.S.  On another topic.  We are not doing Kernel books  as
> such, but
>>> maybe some literature about the things people do to serve their
> faith
>>> communities would help.  I think it was Jim Omvig who had an
> artile inthe
>>> Monitor once.
>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>>>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:42:13 -0600
>>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>>> Faithintheirfiction
>
>>>>Mary,
>
>>>>No need to be embarrassed.  I'm Catholic, but I share the Pope's
>>> emphasis
>>>>on dialogue with other Christian groups and other religions.  As
>>> for
>>>>scifi, I've become wary of reading it because so many of the
>>> well-known
>>>>authors are atheists and their books are often full of erotica.
>
>>>>Prayers and blessings,
>>>>John
>
>>>>On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 02:05:16PM -0500, mary wurtzel wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I feel kind of embarrassed about my message not knowing your
>>>>> cridentials!!!!
>>>>> Mary
>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Fr.  John Sheehan" <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com
>>>>>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:23:04 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>>>>> Faith intheirfiction
>
>>>>>>Out of the Silent Plant
>>>>>>Perelandra
>>>>>>That Hideous Strength
>>>>>>Great sci-fi but with depth and a Christian underpinning.
>>>>>>Fr.  John R.  Sheehan, SJ
>>>>>>Chairman
>
>
>>>>>>Xavier Society for the Blind
>>>>>>154 East 23rd St
>>>>>>New York, NY 10010
>>>>>>(212) 473-7800
>>>>>>Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>>>>> searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch -
>>>>> www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money
>>>>> for us! Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>>From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>>>>>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:43:15 AM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>>>>> Faith in theirfiction
>
>>>>>>John, your post also reminded me of C.S.  Lewis's science fiction
>>>>>>trilogy, which you are probably already aware of.  If not, you
>>>>> should
>>>>>>check them out.  I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself
>>>>> yet but
>>>>>>have heard they are good.
>
>>>>>>Greg
>
>>>>>>On 2/1/10, John J.  Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>Laura,
>
>>>>>>>thanks for the info.  I am interested in writing historical and
>>>>> science
>>>>>>>fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic,
>>>>> perspective.  So
>>>>>>>many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or
>>>>> at least
>>>>>>>don't take religion seriously.  There is an extensive set of
>>>>> books by
>>>>>>>Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors
>>>>> are
>>>>>>>Christian.  They are very pro-Jewish.  The books cover the
>>>>> period leading
>>>>>>>up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel.  there are also
>>>>> some with
>>>>>>>Biblical themes.  An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl.
>>>>> He wrote
>>>>>>>novels about various Christian and biblical figures.  He is a
>>>>> Catholic
>>>>>>>author.  I am proofreading his books for Bookshare.  The Thoene
>>>>> books are
>>>>>>>also on Bookshare.
>
>>>>>>>Right now I don't have much energy for writing.  That will have
>>>>> to be a
>>>>>>>gift of the Lord.  I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
>>>>>>>open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will
>>>>> eventually
>>>>>>>surpass the best of commercial software.  You can learn about it
>>>>> at
>>>>>>>http://www.abilitiessoft.com .  And if you want to see any
>>>>> fiction by me,
>>>>>>>please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.
>
>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>John
>
>>>>>>>On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
>>>>>>>>Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
>>>>>>>>I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about
>>>>> jewish
>>>>>>>>persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish
>>>>> fiction", but I
>>>>>>>>know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The
>>>>> Chosen"? That
>>>>>>>>was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd
>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>read
>>>>>>>>the book.  It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2
>>>>> rabbis with
>>>>>>>>radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie
>>>>> if this was
>
>>>>>>>>pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of
>>>>> the boys.)
>
>>>>>>>>As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women
>>>>> living in the
>
>>>>>>>>more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not
>>>>> fiction.
>>>>>>>>For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well
>>>>> written
>>>>>>>>novel
>>>>>>>>about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not
>>>>> religious,
>>>>>>>>though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim
>>>>> man, and
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part
>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.
>
>>>>>>>>That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
>>>>>>>>Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
>>>>>>>>Happy reading.
>>>>>>>>--laura
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
>>>>>>>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>theirfiction
>
>
>>>>>>>>I've seen a lot of Christian fiction.  Now I would like to see
>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>genuine Jewish fiction.  I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't
>>>>> really a
>>>>>>>>believer.  It would also be interesting to see some fiction by
>>>>> genuine
>>>>>>>>believers in Islam and Buddhism.  I'm making a sort of study of
>>>>> religious
>>>>>>>>fiction.
>
>>>>>>>>Thanks and prayers,
>>>>>>>>John
>
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>Peace, Love, Service
>
>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>Faith-talk:
>
>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/laura
>>>>> eaves%40yahoo.com
>
>
>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>Faith-talk:
>
>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
>>>>> 40godtouches.org
>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>Peace, Love, Service
>
>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>Faith-talk:
>
>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaik
>>>>> ens%40gmail.com
>
>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for Faith-talk:
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xavie
>>>>> rsocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for Faith-talk:
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>>>>> urtzel%40comcast.net
>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
>>> 40godtouches.org
>
>>>>--
>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>Peace, Love, Service
>
>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for Faith-talk:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>>> urtzel%40comcast.net
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%
> 40msn.com
>
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
> urtzel%40comcast.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
> 




From xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 18:47:25 2010
From: xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com (Fr. John Sheehan)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:47:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
	Faithintheirfiction
Message-ID: <70972.67909.qm@web110805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I checked our library and we have a lot of C.S. Lewis (including all 7 of the Narnia books) but not the trilogy. I've put them in the queue.

I know Fr. Greeley - the books of his I have read are easy reading but fairly formulaic - a little like Dick Francis, except that instead of horse racing, Greeley keeps his characters dancing around the world of Church. Several of the "christian" authors I have tried get preachy - and (uncharitably) I'd have to say that were it not for the christian emphasis, the books probably wouldn't be published at all. I want a good book (lower case) and if it can also present elements of the Good Book (upper case) so much the better. 
 Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: mary wurtzel <marywurtzel at comcast.net>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 8:24:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faithintheirfiction

Dear Father John,
Thank you for your understanding.
I am chuckling, wondering what you think of Andrew Greeley's 
books.
I do like the Blackie Ryan books.  I'm not quite as taken with 
the ones  about the Irish folk singer, Nula.
Inthe past, it seemed to me that some Christian books were 
feather weights, such as Janette Oakes.  Karen Kingsbury is more 
contemporary.  She is still on the light side, but perhaps with a 
bit more plot development.
Mary P.S.  On another topic.  We are not doing Kernel books  as 
such, but maybe some literature about the things people do to 
serve their faith communities would help.  I think it was Jim 
Omvig who had an artile inthe Monitor once.

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:42:13 -0600
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their 
Faithintheirfiction

>Mary,

>No need to be embarrassed.  I'm Catholic, but I share the Pope's 
emphasis
>on dialogue with other Christian groups and other religions.  As 
for
>scifi, I've become wary of reading it because so many of the 
well-known
>authors are atheists and their books are often full of erotica.

>Prayers and blessings,
>John

>On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 02:05:16PM -0500, mary wurtzel wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I feel kind of embarrassed about my message not knowing your
>> cridentials!!!!
>> Mary

>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Fr.  John Sheehan" <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com
>>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:23:04 -0800 (PST)
>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>> Faith intheirfiction

>>>Out of the Silent Plant
>>>Perelandra
>>>That Hideous Strength
>>>Great sci-fi but with depth and a Christian underpinning.
>>>Fr.  John R.  Sheehan, SJ
>>>Chairman


>>>Xavier Society for the Blind
>>>154 East 23rd St
>>>New York, NY 10010
>>>(212) 473-7800
>>>Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>> searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch -
>> www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money
>> for us! Thank you.




>>>________________________________
>>>From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:43:15 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>> Faith in theirfiction

>>>John, your post also reminded me of C.S.  Lewis's science fiction
>>>trilogy, which you are probably already aware of.  If not, you
>> should
>>>check them out.  I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself
>> yet but
>>>have heard they are good.

>>>Greg

>>>On 2/1/10, John J.  Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>Laura,

>>>>thanks for the info.  I am interested in writing historical and
>> science
>>>>fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic,
>> perspective.  So
>>>>many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or
>> at least
>>>>don't take religion seriously.  There is an extensive set of
>> books by
>>>>Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors
>> are
>>>>Christian.  They are very pro-Jewish.  The books cover the
>> period leading
>>>>up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel.  there are also
>> some with
>>>>Biblical themes.  An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl.
>> He wrote
>>>>novels about various Christian and biblical figures.  He is a
>> Catholic
>>>>author.  I am proofreading his books for Bookshare.  The Thoene
>> books are
>>>>also on Bookshare.

>>>>Right now I don't have much energy for writing.  That will have
>> to be a
>>>>gift of the Lord.  I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
>>>>open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will
>> eventually
>>>>surpass the best of commercial software.  You can learn about it
>> at
>>>>http://www.abilitiessoft.com .  And if you want to see any
>> fiction by me,
>>>>please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.

>>>>Thanks,
>>>>John

>>>>On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
>>>>>Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
>>>>>I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about
>> jewish
>>>>>persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish
>> fiction", but I
>>>>>know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The
>> Chosen"? That
>>>>>was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd
>> like to
>>>>>read
>>>>>the book.  It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2
>> rabbis with
>>>>>radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie
>> if this was

>>>>>pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of
>> the boys.)

>>>>>As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women
>> living in the

>>>>>more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not
>> fiction.
>>>>>For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well
>> written
>>>>>novel
>>>>>about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not
>> religious,
>>>>>though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim
>> man, and
>>>>>the
>>>>>only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part
>> of the
>>>>>Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.

>>>>>That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
>>>>>Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
>>>>>Happy reading.
>>>>>--laura
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>>>>>To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
>>>>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
>> in
>>>>>theirfiction


>>>>>I've seen a lot of Christian fiction.  Now I would like to see
>> some
>>>>>genuine Jewish fiction.  I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't
>> really a
>>>>>believer.  It would also be interesting to see some fiction by
>> genuine
>>>>>believers in Islam and Buddhism.  I'm making a sort of study of
>> religious
>>>>>fiction.

>>>>>Thanks and prayers,
>>>>>John

>>>>>--
>>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>Peace, Love, Service


>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>>Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/laura
>> eaves%40yahoo.com



>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>>Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
>> 40godtouches.org

>>>>--
>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>Peace, Love, Service


>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaik
>> ens%40gmail.com


>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xavie
>> rsocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com




>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>> urtzel%40comcast.net

>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
40godtouches.org

>--
>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>http://www.godtouches.org
>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>Peace, Love, Service


>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
urtzel%40comcast.net

_______________________________________________
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Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com



      

From xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 18:51:54 2010
From: xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com (Fr. John Sheehan)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:51:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
Message-ID: <660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of blind lectors all over the U.S. 
 Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include braille
in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during the
service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his table.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn


-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you
respond? RJ
_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
spot.org


_______________________________________________
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Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com



      

From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 19:50:52 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:50:52 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn>

This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fr. John Sheehan" <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of 
> blind lectors all over the U.S.
> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
> Chairman
>
>
> Xavier Society for the Blind
> 154 East 23rd St
> New York, NY 10010
> (212) 473-7800
> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching 
> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - 
> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include 
> braille
> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during the
> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his table.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you
> respond? RJ
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
> spot.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 21:06:02 2010
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:06:02 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4383d01d1002041306m7cc257dex76027c165fef6dd5@mail.gmail.com>

Wow.  Father, you've really got to talk sense into these small-town
weirdos who can't do such things.
Beth

On 2/4/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
> Chairman
>
>
> Xavier Society for the Blind
> 154 East 23rd St
> New York, NY 10010
> (212) 473-7800
> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include braille
> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during the
> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his table.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you
> respond? RJ
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
> spot.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 23:51:54 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 18:51:54 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4383d01d1002041306m7cc257dex76027c165fef6dd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0F3EDA3DBAC4408B8886EA795F05F51C@hometwxakonvzn>

I think you and Beth should exchange emails, so you can assist her. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Wow.  Father, you've really got to talk sense into these small-town
> weirdos who can't do such things.
> Beth
>
> On 2/4/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
>> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>>  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>> Chairman
>>
>>
>> Xavier Society for the Blind
>> 154 East 23rd St
>> New York, NY 10010
>> (212) 473-7800
>> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
>> searching
>> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
>> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include 
>> braille
>> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during 
>> the
>> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
>> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his 
>> table.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did 
>> you
>> respond? RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
>> spot.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From timber_wolf899 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  5 00:03:11 2010
From: timber_wolf899 at yahoo.com (Frank Lordi)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:03:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
	Faithintheirfiction
In-Reply-To: <70972.67909.qm@web110805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <70972.67909.qm@web110805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <174141.50166.qm@web51901.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Father;
?? As an amiture Catholic writer and science nerd I am also interested in Christian sci-fi.? I extend my interest to fantasy and am currently working on a small fleet of projects along those lines.? If your schedule and work load allow I would be greatful for feedback on these projects, from a spiritual perspective.

Thank you
Frank



----- Original Message ----
From: Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 1:47:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faithintheirfiction

I checked our library and we have a lot of C.S. Lewis (including all 7 of the Narnia books) but not the trilogy. I've put them in the queue.

I know Fr. Greeley - the books of his I have read are easy reading but fairly formulaic - a little like Dick Francis, except that instead of horse racing, Greeley keeps his characters dancing around the world of Church. Several of the "christian" authors I have tried get preachy - and (uncharitably) I'd have to say that were it not for the christian emphasis, the books probably wouldn't be published at all. I want a good book (lower case) and if it can also present elements of the Good Book (upper case) so much the better. 
Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: mary wurtzel <marywurtzel at comcast.net>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 8:24:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faithintheirfiction

Dear Father John,
Thank you for your understanding.
I am chuckling, wondering what you think of Andrew Greeley's 
books.
I do like the Blackie Ryan books.? I'm not quite as taken with 
the ones? about the Irish folk singer, Nula.
Inthe past, it seemed to me that some Christian books were 
feather weights, such as Janette Oakes.? Karen Kingsbury is more 
contemporary.? She is still on the light side, but perhaps with a 
bit more plot development.
Mary P.S.? On another topic.? We are not doing Kernel books? as 
such, but maybe some literature about the things people do to 
serve their faith communities would help.? I think it was Jim 
Omvig who had an artile inthe Monitor once.

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "John J.? Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:42:13 -0600
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their 
Faithintheirfiction

>Mary,

>No need to be embarrassed.? I'm Catholic, but I share the Pope's 
emphasis
>on dialogue with other Christian groups and other religions.? As 
for
>scifi, I've become wary of reading it because so many of the 
well-known
>authors are atheists and their books are often full of erotica.

>Prayers and blessings,
>John

>On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 02:05:16PM -0500, mary wurtzel wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I feel kind of embarrassed about my message not knowing your
>> cridentials!!!!
>> Mary

>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Fr.? John Sheehan" <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com
>>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:23:04 -0800 (PST)
>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>> Faith intheirfiction

>>>Out of the Silent Plant
>>>Perelandra
>>>That Hideous Strength
>>>Great sci-fi but with depth and a Christian underpinning.
>>>Fr.? John R.? Sheehan, SJ
>>>Chairman


>>>Xavier Society for the Blind
>>>154 East 23rd St
>>>New York, NY 10010
>>>(212) 473-7800
>>>Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>> searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch -
>> www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money
>> for us! Thank you.




>>>________________________________
>>>From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:43:15 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>> Faith in theirfiction

>>>John, your post also reminded me of C.S.? Lewis's science fiction
>>>trilogy, which you are probably already aware of.? If not, you
>> should
>>>check them out.? I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself
>> yet but
>>>have heard they are good.

>>>Greg

>>>On 2/1/10, John J.? Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>Laura,

>>>>thanks for the info.? I am interested in writing historical and
>> science
>>>>fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic,
>> perspective.? So
>>>>many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or
>> at least
>>>>don't take religion seriously.? There is an extensive set of
>> books by
>>>>Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors
>> are
>>>>Christian.? They are very pro-Jewish.? The books cover the
>> period leading
>>>>up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel.? there are also
>> some with
>>>>Biblical themes.? An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl.
>> He wrote
>>>>novels about various Christian and biblical figures.? He is a
>> Catholic
>>>>author.? I am proofreading his books for Bookshare.? The Thoene
>> books are
>>>>also on Bookshare.

>>>>Right now I don't have much energy for writing.? That will have
>> to be a
>>>>gift of the Lord.? I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
>>>>open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will
>> eventually
>>>>surpass the best of commercial software.? You can learn about it
>> at
>>>>http://www.abilitiessoft.com .? And if you want to see any
>> fiction by me,
>>>>please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.

>>>>Thanks,
>>>>John

>>>>On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
>>>>>Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
>>>>>I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about
>> jewish
>>>>>persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish
>> fiction", but I
>>>>>know they are out there.? Have you ever read the novel "The
>> Chosen"? That
>>>>>was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.? I'd
>> like to
>>>>>read
>>>>>the book.? It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2
>> rabbis with
>>>>>radically different views.? (I wondered as I watched the movie
>> if this was

>>>>>pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of
>> the boys.)

>>>>>As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women
>> living in the

>>>>>more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not
>> fiction.
>>>>>For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well
>> written
>>>>>novel
>>>>>about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.? It was not
>> religious,
>>>>>though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim
>> man, and
>>>>>the
>>>>>only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part
>> of the
>>>>>Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.

>>>>>That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
>>>>>Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
>>>>>Happy reading.
>>>>>--laura
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "John J.? Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>>>>>To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
>>>>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
>> in
>>>>>theirfiction


>>>>>I've seen a lot of Christian fiction.? Now I would like to see
>> some
>>>>>genuine Jewish fiction.? I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't
>> really a
>>>>>believer.? It would also be interesting to see some fiction by
>> genuine
>>>>>believers in Islam and Buddhism.? I'm making a sort of study of
>> religious
>>>>>fiction.

>>>>>Thanks and prayers,
>>>>>John

>>>>>--
>>>>>John J.? Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>Peace, Love, Service


>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>>Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/laura
>> eaves%40yahoo.com



>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>>Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
>> 40godtouches.org

>>>>--
>>>>John J.? Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>Peace, Love, Service


>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaik
>> ens%40gmail.com


>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xavie
>> rsocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com




>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>> urtzel%40comcast.net

>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
40godtouches.org

>--
>John J.? Boyer, Executive Director
>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>http://www.godtouches.org
>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>Peace, Love, Service


>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
urtzel%40comcast.net

_______________________________________________
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Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com



? ? ? 
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
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From kk3f at msn.com  Fri Feb  5 00:45:08 2010
From: kk3f at msn.com (pat gormley)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:45:08 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4383d01d1002041306m7cc257dex76027c165fef6dd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP51E0438FBCA81D9C0FB02290540@phx.gbl>

Beth I've been a lector for over 40 years and a Eucharistic minister for 5 
years.  And I'm in a small town what it is people can't imagine how they'd 
do something if they were blind and don't have the guts to tell you that. 
Thankfully when I was learning to handle the chalice Father Ty Hollinger, 
who ministered to the Jernigans when Dr. Jernigan was dying of cancer kept 
things calm.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Wow.  Father, you've really got to talk sense into these small-town
> weirdos who can't do such things.
> Beth
>
> On 2/4/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
>> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>>  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>> Chairman
>>
>>
>> Xavier Society for the Blind
>> 154 East 23rd St
>> New York, NY 10010
>> (212) 473-7800
>> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
>> searching
>> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
>> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include 
>> braille
>> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during 
>> the
>> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
>> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his 
>> table.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did 
>> you
>> respond? RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
>> spot.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
> 




From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 01:16:08 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 20:16:08 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4383d01d1002041306m7cc257dex76027c165fef6dd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP51E0438FBCA81D9C0FB02290540@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5803B9259FB348F786CEFA45A88E393F@hometwxakonvzn>

I was going to become Catholic myself, but decided againist it when I was 
told a blind person couldn't become a priest.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "pat gormley" <kk3f at msn.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Beth I've been a lector for over 40 years and a Eucharistic minister for 5 
> years.  And I'm in a small town what it is people can't imagine how they'd 
> do something if they were blind and don't have the guts to tell you that. 
> Thankfully when I was learning to handle the chalice Father Ty Hollinger, 
> who ministered to the Jernigans when Dr. Jernigan was dying of cancer kept 
> things calm.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>> Wow.  Father, you've really got to talk sense into these small-town
>> weirdos who can't do such things.
>> Beth
>>
>> On 2/4/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
>>> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>>>  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>>> Chairman
>>>
>>>
>>> Xavier Society for the Blind
>>> 154 East 23rd St
>>> New York, NY 10010
>>> (212) 473-7800
>>> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
>>> searching
>>> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
>>> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>
>>> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include 
>>> braille
>>> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during 
>>> the
>>> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell 
>>> them
>>> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his 
>>> table.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>
>>> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>>> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did 
>>> you
>>> respond? RJ
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
>>> spot.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From mentink at frontiernet.net  Fri Feb  5 02:21:24 2010
From: mentink at frontiernet.net (Linda Mentink)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:21:24 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and Church
Message-ID: <20100205021948.47C4410FA13@relay02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

Hi All,

I believe that we should worship where we can grow spiritually, and 
where we agree with the teachings, not where the leadership will let 
us serve. Conversations with the leaders is appropriate.  The 
question should be, "Lord, where do you want me to worship and serve 
You?" not, "what church or denomination will allow me to serve.  Get 
involved in small ways when you decide you want to be a member, and 
above all, pray.  Blind people serve in many capacities; yes, even as 
Catholic priests. It might be appropriate to get in touch with one, 
if you're interested in being a priest, and ask that person to be an 
advocate for you.  But be sure you are in the Lord's will, not your 
own.  Ask if you can do something on a trial basis, if it's something 
they don't think a blind person can do.  And, be respectful!

Over the years, I have been involved in many church 
ministries--prayer chain chairman, deaconess, AWANA leader, missions 
committee member, music committee member and chairman, pianist, 
worship planner, choir member, choir director, and soloist.  I didn't 
barge in; I just offered.  But it never was, "To me be the glory, 
great things I can do."  Of course, I have been denied opportunities, 
but I accepted that as God's will, and was glad to be less busy.




From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 02:44:38 2010
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:44:38 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <5803B9259FB348F786CEFA45A88E393F@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4383d01d1002041306m7cc257dex76027c165fef6dd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP51E0438FBCA81D9C0FB02290540@phx.gbl>
	<5803B9259FB348F786CEFA45A88E393F@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <4383d01d1002041844v4125a08ek2c8da8e4b81d898a@mail.gmail.com>

Wow.  THat's interesting, Pat.  RJ, I can't believe that someone would
tell you a blind person can't become a priest.  Blind women are at
higher risk than blind men however.
Beth

On 2/4/10, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was going to become Catholic myself, but decided againist it when I was
> told a blind person couldn't become a priest.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "pat gormley" <kk3f at msn.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>> Beth I've been a lector for over 40 years and a Eucharistic minister for 5
>>
>> years.  And I'm in a small town what it is people can't imagine how they'd
>>
>> do something if they were blind and don't have the guts to tell you that.
>> Thankfully when I was learning to handle the chalice Father Ty Hollinger,
>> who ministered to the Jernigans when Dr. Jernigan was dying of cancer kept
>>
>> things calm.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>
>>> Wow.  Father, you've really got to talk sense into these small-town
>>> weirdos who can't do such things.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> On 2/4/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
>>>> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>>>>  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>>>> Chairman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Xavier Society for the Blind
>>>> 154 East 23rd St
>>>> New York, NY 10010
>>>> (212) 473-7800
>>>> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>>>> searching
>>>> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
>>>> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>>
>>>> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include
>>>> braille
>>>> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during
>>>> the
>>>> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell
>>>> them
>>>> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his
>>>> table.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>>
>>>> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>>>> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did
>>>> you
>>>> respond? RJ
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
>>>> spot.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 02:57:21 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:57:21 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4383d01d1002041306m7cc257dex76027c165fef6dd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1869F99E6A034B1A9FA2187AF94BF70E@hometwxakonvzn>

Beth, I'm on facebook. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Wow.  Father, you've really got to talk sense into these small-town
> weirdos who can't do such things.
> Beth
>
> On 2/4/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
>> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>>  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>> Chairman
>>
>>
>> Xavier Society for the Blind
>> 154 East 23rd St
>> New York, NY 10010
>> (212) 473-7800
>> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
>> searching
>> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
>> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include 
>> braille
>> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during 
>> the
>> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
>> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his 
>> table.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did 
>> you
>> respond? RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
>> spot.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From goldpen at frontiernet.net  Fri Feb  5 04:34:48 2010
From: goldpen at frontiernet.net (Penny Golden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:34:48 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <1869F99E6A034B1A9FA2187AF94BF70E@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4383d01d1002041306m7cc257dex76027c165fef6dd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1869F99E6A034B1A9FA2187AF94BF70E@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <20100205043443.A0E4F5FD9A@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

One of my best friends, now deceased, was an Episcopal priest for 
years and years.
I'm afraid he would have been horrified had he lived to see the 
direction his beloved denomination was and is taking.

Blessings,
Penny





From eric at pmpmail.com  Fri Feb  5 08:36:58 2010
From: eric at pmpmail.com (Eric Calhoun)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 02:36:58 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] FW: [URCTCPrayerGroup2] teaching by Joyce Meyer
Message-ID: <20100205083716.B08AC2AFCBE@node77.smtp.com>



Original Message: 
From: "Donna" <whitedove57 at att.net>
To: <URCTCPrayerGroup2 at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [URCTCPrayerGroup2] teaching by Joyce Meyer
Date: 
Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:31:34 -0500

 
The Beauty of a Real Relationship with God 
by Joyce Meyer 

When you think of religion, what comes to your mind-a set of rules,
regulations and obligations or a deep, intimate relationship with God? 

I like to consider myself someone who has a personal relationship with
God through Jesus Christ. I believe He died so we could have a living,
vital relationship with God, not just a bunch of rules and regulations
we're forced to follow. 

Yes, there are certain guidelines God wants us to follow, but His purpose
in giving them is to protect us from the consequences of sin. 

When we have a real relationship with God through Christ, life gets
exciting because He stirs up a passion inside us to love people-and we
don't have to struggle to do the things He calls us to do. It just happens
naturally. 

God Is Not Mad at You 
If there's one thing people need to hear over and over again, it's this:
God loves you. That's all there is to it. He may not like everything you
do, but He's never going to stop loving you. 

God is not impressed with your works at all. What He cares about is your
heart. 

I believe the greatest thing God wants to hear from us is, "I love You,
Lord. Thank You for everything You've done in my life. I want to do what's
right. Keep teaching me." 


Many of us don't pray and ask God for what we need because we don't think
we have a right to ask. But the Bible says God wants us to learn how to
receive His mercy. 

Hebrews 4:15 says we have a High Priest, a perfect Savior, who
understands our weaknesses. He's been tempted just like we are, yet He
never sinned. 

Verse 16 says we can come fearlessly and confidently before God in prayer
to receive His mercy and be forgiven. 

New Creature, New Features 
"Legally" you become a Christian when you make the decision to receive
Jesus Christ as your Savior. And after you receive Him, God begins to
change you into a brand-new creation.

We shouldn't be making up religious rules to live by, like having to read
our Bible every single day; nor should we do whatever we want to because we
know we're going to heaven when we die. 

Christianity is about living a vibrant, exciting life in Christ, and it
goes hand in hand with developing a personal relationship with Him. Jesus
wants us to be in love with Him. 

Know What Really Matters 
I was thinking one day about how judgmental I used to be about the way
some people dressed. Not long ago, I might have thought that I couldn't
wear jeans and teach, but my son said to me, "Do you really think that God
anoints polyester more than denim?" 

It took some things like that to shock me into the realization that I was
just holding on to a religious attitude, when God wanted us to freshen up
our look in order to reach more people. 

Sure, it's good to dress nicely when we go to church. But the bottom line
is, we shouldn't be so focused on our outward appearance that we lose sight
of our main goal: developing a close, personal relationship with God. 

Living Your Life with God 
God wants to be involved in everything we do. He wants us to fellowship
with Him, which means communicating with Him throughout our day just like
we do with someone who's our close friend or family member. 

Knowing God loves us, loving Him, spending time with Him, and being
grateful for what He's done and is doing in our lives can help us have a
real relationship with Him. 



Hugs,
Donna
He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the
shadow of the Almighty. Ps 91:1

From eric at pmpmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:32:52 2010
From: eric at pmpmail.com (Eric Calhoun)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 06:32:52 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] FW: [B.A.C.M] Quote of the day for Thursday February
	4th
Message-ID: <20100205123310.291BF2AFF3A@node77.smtp.com>

Last one for me.--


Original Message: 
From: "Christine" <christine_792005 at yahoo.com>
To: bac_m at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [B.A.C.M] Quote of the day for Thursday February 4th
Date: 
Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:45:40 -0000

Have you reached your destination?" Many of us grow up not knowing what
we want to do with our lives. It can take years to figure it out, and some
never do. Many women change jobs, careers and husbands, searching for their
purpose and destination. To achieve success in finding your way,
soul-searching is a necessity. Have an honest conversation with yourself
and answer a very tough question. "Who am I?" Think about your strengths,
your weaknesses and most importantly your passions. It may take a day, a
week or a month but, when you answer this question, your personal
destination becomes clear. Your direction will not fall in your lap, so
don't waste another moment ? create an inner compass and find it yourself



From xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  5 13:20:34 2010
From: xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com (Fr. John Sheehan)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 05:20:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
	Faithintheirfiction
In-Reply-To: <174141.50166.qm@web51901.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <70972.67909.qm@web110805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<174141.50166.qm@web51901.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <791456.34256.qm@web110809.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Always glad to help when I can - and sometimes I can refer to others with more skills than mine.
 Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: Frank Lordi <timber_wolf899 at yahoo.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 7:03:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faithintheirfiction

Father;
   As an amiture Catholic writer and science nerd I am also interested in Christian sci-fi.  I extend my interest to fantasy and am currently working on a small fleet of projects along those lines.  If your schedule and work load allow I would be greatful for feedback on these projects, from a spiritual perspective.

Thank you
Frank



----- Original Message ----
From: Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 1:47:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faithintheirfiction

I checked our library and we have a lot of C.S. Lewis (including all 7 of the Narnia books) but not the trilogy. I've put them in the queue.

I know Fr. Greeley - the books of his I have read are easy reading but fairly formulaic - a little like Dick Francis, except that instead of horse racing, Greeley keeps his characters dancing around the world of Church. Several of the "christian" authors I have tried get preachy - and (uncharitably) I'd have to say that were it not for the christian emphasis, the books probably wouldn't be published at all. I want a good book (lower case) and if it can also present elements of the Good Book (upper case) so much the better. 
Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: mary wurtzel <marywurtzel at comcast.net>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 8:24:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faithintheirfiction

Dear Father John,
Thank you for your understanding.
I am chuckling, wondering what you think of Andrew Greeley's 
books.
I do like the Blackie Ryan books.  I'm not quite as taken with 
the ones  about the Irish folk singer, Nula.
Inthe past, it seemed to me that some Christian books were 
feather weights, such as Janette Oakes.  Karen Kingsbury is more 
contemporary.  She is still on the light side, but perhaps with a 
bit more plot development.
Mary P.S.  On another topic.  We are not doing Kernel books  as 
such, but maybe some literature about the things people do to 
serve their faith communities would help.  I think it was Jim 
Omvig who had an artile inthe Monitor once.

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:42:13 -0600
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their 
Faithintheirfiction

>Mary,

>No need to be embarrassed.  I'm Catholic, but I share the Pope's 
emphasis
>on dialogue with other Christian groups and other religions.  As 
for
>scifi, I've become wary of reading it because so many of the 
well-known
>authors are atheists and their books are often full of erotica.

>Prayers and blessings,
>John

>On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 02:05:16PM -0500, mary wurtzel wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I feel kind of embarrassed about my message not knowing your
>> cridentials!!!!
>> Mary

>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Fr.  John Sheehan" <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com
>>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:23:04 -0800 (PST)
>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>> Faith intheirfiction

>>>Out of the Silent Plant
>>>Perelandra
>>>That Hideous Strength
>>>Great sci-fi but with depth and a Christian underpinning.
>>>Fr.  John R.  Sheehan, SJ
>>>Chairman


>>>Xavier Society for the Blind
>>>154 East 23rd St
>>>New York, NY 10010
>>>(212) 473-7800
>>>Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>> searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch -
>> www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money
>> for us! Thank you.




>>>________________________________
>>>From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:43:15 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their
>> Faith in theirfiction

>>>John, your post also reminded me of C.S.  Lewis's science fiction
>>>trilogy, which you are probably already aware of.  If not, you
>> should
>>>check them out.  I haven't gotten a chance to read them myself
>> yet but
>>>have heard they are good.

>>>Greg

>>>On 2/1/10, John J.  Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>Laura,

>>>>thanks for the info.  I am interested in writing historical and
>> science
>>>>fiction novels from a Christian, specifically Catholic,
>> perspective.  So
>>>>many of the well-known science-fiction authors are atheists or
>> at least
>>>>don't take religion seriously.  There is an extensive set of
>> books by
>>>>Bodie and Brock Thoene with Jewish protogonists, but the authors
>> are
>>>>Christian.  They are very pro-Jewish.  The books cover the
>> period leading
>>>>up to World War 2 and the founding of Israel.  there are also
>> some with
>>>>Biblical themes.  An almost forgotten author is Louis de Wohl.
>> He wrote
>>>>novels about various Christian and biblical figures.  He is a
>> Catholic
>>>>author.  I am proofreading his books for Bookshare.  The Thoene
>> books are
>>>>also on Bookshare.

>>>>Right now I don't have much energy for writing.  That will have
>> to be a
>>>>gift of the Lord.  I'm putting what energy I have into my free,
>>>>open-source braille transcription software, which I hope will
>> eventually
>>>>surpass the best of commercial software.  You can learn about it
>> at
>>>>http://www.abilitiessoft.com .  And if you want to see any
>> fiction by me,
>>>>please pray that I will be given the necessary energy.

>>>>Thanks,
>>>>John

>>>>On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:37:49PM -0600, qubit wrote:
>>>>>Hey John, good to hear of yet another of your interests.
>>>>>I have seen in some of the NLS talking book topics, novels about
>> jewish
>>>>>persons -- I don't think they are categorized as "jewish
>> fiction", but I
>>>>>know they are out there.  Have you ever read the novel "The
>> Chosen"? That
>>>>>was made into a movie which was truely an excellent flick.  I'd
>> like to
>>>>>read
>>>>>the book.  It's about 2 young jewish friends who wer sons of 2
>> rabbis with
>>>>>radically different views.  (I wondered as I watched the movie
>> if this was

>>>>>pure fiction or just memoirs of the author's own life as one of
>> the boys.)

>>>>>As for Islam, you can find a number of books by muslim women
>> living in the

>>>>>more repressed muslim countries -- but these are memoirs and not
>> fiction.
>>>>>For fiction, I read "The Kite Runner", which was a truely well
>> written
>>>>>novel
>>>>>about 2 young boys growing up in Afghanistan.  It was not
>> religious,
>>>>>though -- the protagonist was the son of a non-believing muslim
>> man, and
>>>>>the
>>>>>only religious persons in the book were either poor or else part
>> of the
>>>>>Taliban and therefore extremely violent and oppressive.

>>>>>That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
>>>>>Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
>>>>>Happy reading.
>>>>>--laura
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "John J.  Boyer" <john at godtouches.org
>>>>>To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:30 AM
>>>>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by writers who express their Faith
>> in
>>>>>theirfiction


>>>>>I've seen a lot of Christian fiction.  Now I would like to see
>> some
>>>>>genuine Jewish fiction.  I'm afraid Isaac Bashevis Singer isn't
>> really a
>>>>>believer.  It would also be interesting to see some fiction by
>> genuine
>>>>>believers in Islam and Buddhism.  I'm making a sort of study of
>> religious
>>>>>fiction.

>>>>>Thanks and prayers,
>>>>>John

>>>>>--
>>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>Peace, Love, Service


>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>>Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/laura
>> eaves%40yahoo.com



>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>>Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
>> 40godtouches.org

>>>>--
>>>>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>Peace, Love, Service


>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>Faith-talk:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaik
>> ens%40gmail.com


>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xavie
>> rsocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com




>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>> urtzel%40comcast.net

>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%
40godtouches.org

>--
>John J.  Boyer, Executive Director
>GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>http://www.godtouches.org
>Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>Peace, Love, Service


>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
urtzel%40comcast.net

_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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From xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  5 13:27:36 2010
From: xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com (Fr. John Sheehan)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 05:27:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some, for whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. I don't agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a blind person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar. 
 Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan" <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of blind lectors all over the U.S.
> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
> Chairman
> 
> 
> Xavier Society for the Blind
> 154 East 23rd St
> New York, NY 10010
> (212) 473-7800
> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
> 
> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include braille
> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during the
> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his table.
> 
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
> 
> 
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
> 
> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you
> respond? RJ
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
> spot.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 


_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com



      

From kk3f at msn.com  Fri Feb  5 14:02:57 2010
From: kk3f at msn.com (pat gormley)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:02:57 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4383d01d1002041306m7cc257dex76027c165fef6dd5@mail.gmail.com><BLU0-SMTP51E0438FBCA81D9C0FB02290540@phx.gbl><5803B9259FB348F786CEFA45A88E393F@hometwxakonvzn>
	<4383d01d1002041844v4125a08ek2c8da8e4b81d898a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP708B86647F09CEC6140CAA90540@phx.gbl>

Beth there have been blind priests in various capacities for at least 30 
years.  I do know of one who was ordained about 10 years ago in New Jersey.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Wow.  THat's interesting, Pat.  RJ, I can't believe that someone would
> tell you a blind person can't become a priest.  Blind women are at
> higher risk than blind men however.
> Beth
>
> On 2/4/10, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I was going to become Catholic myself, but decided againist it when I was
>> told a blind person couldn't become a priest.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "pat gormley" <kk3f at msn.com>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>
>>> Beth I've been a lector for over 40 years and a Eucharistic minister for 
>>> 5
>>>
>>> years.  And I'm in a small town what it is people can't imagine how 
>>> they'd
>>>
>>> do something if they were blind and don't have the guts to tell you 
>>> that.
>>> Thankfully when I was learning to handle the chalice Father Ty 
>>> Hollinger,
>>> who ministered to the Jernigans when Dr. Jernigan was dying of cancer 
>>> kept
>>>
>>> things calm.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wow.  Father, you've really got to talk sense into these small-town
>>>> weirdos who can't do such things.
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> On 2/4/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know 
>>>>> of
>>>>> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>>>>>  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>>>>> Chairman
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Xavier Society for the Blind
>>>>> 154 East 23rd St
>>>>> New York, NY 10010
>>>>> (212) 473-7800
>>>>> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>>>>> searching
>>>>> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
>>>>> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>>> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>>>
>>>>> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include
>>>>> braille
>>>>> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during
>>>>> the
>>>>> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell
>>>>> them
>>>>> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his
>>>>> table.
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one 
>>>>> who
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>>>>> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did
>>>>> you
>>>>> respond? RJ
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
>>>>> spot.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
> 




From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 14:46:59 2010
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:46:59 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn>
	<730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.com>

YOu're right.  Both of you.  But I am a believer in rights for women
to serve in high roles in churches.  Catholicism is notorious for
being so patriarchal.
Beth

On 2/5/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some, for
> whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. I don't
> agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a blind
> person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar.
>  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
> Chairman
>
>
> Xavier Society for the Blind
> 154 East 23rd St
> New York, NY 10010
> (212) 473-7800
> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
> This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan"
> <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
>> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>> Chairman
>>
>>
>> Xavier Society for the Blind
>> 154 East 23rd St
>> New York, NY 10010
>> (212) 473-7800
>> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
>> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
>> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include
>> braille
>> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during the
>> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
>> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his table.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you
>> respond? RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
>> spot.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 17:40:11 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:40:11 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn><730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA0492DBAE8A4DF2BCF906AA2FBA54CB@hometwxakonvzn>

Then Mabie you should concidder the Episkipal church? Are you on facebook 
beth? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> YOu're right.  Both of you.  But I am a believer in rights for women
> to serve in high roles in churches.  Catholicism is notorious for
> being so patriarchal.
> Beth
>
> On 2/5/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some, for
>> whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. I don't
>> agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a blind
>> person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar.
>>  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>> Chairman
>>
>>
>> Xavier Society for the Blind
>> 154 East 23rd St
>> New York, NY 10010
>> (212) 473-7800
>> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
>> searching
>> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
>> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>> This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan"
>> <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>
>>> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
>>> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>>> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>>> Chairman
>>>
>>>
>>> Xavier Society for the Blind
>>> 154 East 23rd St
>>> New York, NY 10010
>>> (212) 473-7800
>>> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
>>> searching
>>> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
>>> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>
>>> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include
>>> braille
>>> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during 
>>> the
>>> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell 
>>> them
>>> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his 
>>> table.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>>
>>> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>>> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did 
>>> you
>>> respond? RJ
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
>>> spot.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 17:54:29 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:54:29 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Off list
Message-ID: <420E6DB097B54AC0881533E3991E9171@hometwxakonvzn>

Beth, please email me off list. joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
RJ

From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 18:59:38 2010
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:59:38 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
Message-ID: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com>

Yes, RJ.  I'm on Facebook under www.facebook.com/tallygirl.  
Check me out.
Beth



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 19:18:19 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:18:19 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E7D413D00B29407CAB41463DE04320A3@hometwxakonvzn>

Beth, I've just sent you a friend request. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Yes, RJ.  I'm on Facebook under www.facebook.com/tallygirl.  Check me out.
> Beth
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From norma.crosby at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 19:34:09 2010
From: norma.crosby at gmail.com (Norma Crosby)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:34:09 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com>
References: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <53a73a441002051134r2d6e086fxec473dfa8708b187@mail.gmail.com>

I have been watching this thread for a few days without making comment.
However, I guess I have two to make. Understand that I am just a spiritual
seeker. I hold no position in any church hierarchy, so here goes.

First, I am hearing some people suggest that you find a different church,
and I would agree that if you are uncomfortable in your parish, you should
look for a new church home. That is not a recommendation to leave the
Catholic Church. Rather, it is a suggestion that you search and find a
congregation where you are more comfortable.

Second, I see others have suggested that you leave your current faith
altogether, and I think that sounds radical unless you are truly unhappy
with the church as a whole. I am not a Catholic, although I have an interest
in learning more about Catholicism, but I would point out that you will find
negative aspects of almost any faith you choose. You will find people in
virtually every denomination who are more narrow minded than you would like,
and you probably will run across discrimination on the basis of your
blindness as well. This is a togh decision, and I will be praying for you as
you make.

Best regards,
Norma Crosby


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, RJ.  I'm on Facebook under www.facebook.com/tallygirl.  Check me out.
> Beth
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/norma.crosby%40gmail.com
>


From goldpen at frontiernet.net  Fri Feb  5 23:30:18 2010
From: goldpen at frontiernet.net (Penny Golden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:30:18 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn>
	<730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100205233012.D67885FDD7@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

Oh, Beth, I just have to laugh.
The Holy Scriptures are also patriarchal in some ways.
So though we believe in women's rights, some of us believe that there 
is Biblical reason not to seek ordination as women.
However, most folk do not hold to that anymore.  So we're in a 
distinct minority.
It's a subject on which we feel the Scriptures speak without 
equivocation; but most do not think that we're right in our interpretation.
We'll not agree on some things, here, that's certain.
Have a blest weekend.
  At 08:46 AM 2/5/2010, you wrote:
>YOu're right.  Both of you.  But I am a believer in rights for women
>to serve in high roles in churches.  Catholicism is notorious for
>being so patriarchal.
>Beth
>
>On 2/5/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some, for
> > whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. I don't
> > agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a blind
> > person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar.
> >  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
> > Chairman
> >
> >
> > Xavier Society for the Blind
> > 154 East 23rd St
> > New York, NY 10010
> > (212) 473-7800
> > Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
> > the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
> > powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> > To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
> > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
> >
> > This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan"
> > <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
> > To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
> >
> >
> >> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
> >> blind lectors all over the U.S.
> >> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
> >> Chairman
> >>
> >>
> >> Xavier Society for the Blind
> >> 154 East 23rd St
> >> New York, NY 10010
> >> (212) 473-7800
> >> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
> >> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
> >> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
> >> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
> >> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
> >>
> >> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include
> >> braille
> >> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during the
> >> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
> >> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his table.
> >>
> >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> >> CEO/Founder
> >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> >> New York, New York  10004
> >> www.myblindspot.org
> >> PH: 917-553-0347
> >> Fax: 212-858-5759
> >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> >> doing it."
> >>
> >>
> >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> >> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
> >> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> >> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
> >>
> >> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
> >> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you
> >> respond? RJ
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Faith-talk mailing list
> >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Faith-talk:
> >> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
> >> spot.org
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Faith-talk mailing list
> >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Faith-talk:
> >> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Faith-talk mailing list
> >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Faith-talk:
> >> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Faith-talk mailing list
> > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Faith-talk:
> > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Faith-talk mailing list
> > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Faith-talk:
> > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40frontiernet.net



From marywurtzel at comcast.net  Sat Feb  6 18:40:11 2010
From: marywurtzel at comcast.net (mary wurtzel)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:40:11 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by
	writerswhoexpresstheirFaithintheirfiction
Message-ID: <mailman.12.1593447327.15261.faith-talk_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Hi,
That is the second book with them, RFBANDD.
I  will need Fred's help with this.
He just returned from the Washington seminar.  He had 3 young 
boys who are from our schl district that he was mentoring.  I am 
really proud of him and our youth coordinator, Melinda Latham who 
got the grant to take the kids.  She  mentored the girls who 
went.  They even took an overnight train.
I guess this is off topic but as far as I am concerned it is how 
we live out our faith as well as serving the blind kids of our 
next generation.
Mary



From djasister at windstream.net  Sat Feb  6 17:34:14 2010
From: djasister at windstream.net (devona able)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:34:14 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn><730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100205233012.D67885FDD7@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <B0EF6ACF9D8F4DC0B610679258563485@DGQ81V31>

Women do not belong in the pulpit.

Devona
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Penny Golden 
  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion 
  Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 5:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


  Oh, Beth, I just have to laugh.
  The Holy Scriptures are also patriarchal in some ways.
  So though we believe in women's rights, some of us believe that there 
  is Biblical reason not to seek ordination as women.
  However, most folk do not hold to that anymore.  So we're in a 
  distinct minority.
  It's a subject on which we feel the Scriptures speak without 
  equivocation; but most do not think that we're right in our interpretation.
  We'll not agree on some things, here, that's certain.
  Have a blest weekend.
    At 08:46 AM 2/5/2010, you wrote:
  >YOu're right.  Both of you.  But I am a believer in rights for women
  >to serve in high roles in churches.  Catholicism is notorious for
  >being so patriarchal.
  >Beth
  >
  >On 2/5/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
  > > The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some, for
  > > whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. I don't
  > > agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a blind
  > > person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar.
  > >  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
  > > Chairman
  > >
  > >
  > > Xavier Society for the Blind
  > > 154 East 23rd St
  > > New York, NY 10010
  > > (212) 473-7800
  > > Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
  > > the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
  > > powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > ________________________________
  > > From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
  > > To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  > > Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  > >
  > > This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
  > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan"
  > > <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
  > > To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  > > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  > >
  > >
  > >> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
  > >> blind lectors all over the U.S.
  > >> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
  > >> Chairman
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> Xavier Society for the Blind
  > >> 154 East 23rd St
  > >> New York, NY 10010
  > >> (212) 473-7800
  > >> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
  > >> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
  > >> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> ________________________________
  > >> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
  > >> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
  > >> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  > >> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
  > >> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  > >>
  > >> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include
  > >> braille
  > >> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during the
  > >> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
  > >> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his table.
  > >>
  > >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  > >> CEO/Founder
  > >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  > >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  > >> New York, New York  10004
  > >> www.myblindspot.org
  > >> PH: 917-553-0347
  > >> Fax: 212-858-5759
  > >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
  > >> doing it."
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> -----Original Message-----
  > >> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
  > >> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
  > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
  > >> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
  > >> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  > >>
  > >> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
  > >> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you
  > >> respond? RJ
  > >> _______________________________________________
  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > >> Faith-talk:
  > >> 
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
  > >> spot.org
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> _______________________________________________
  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > >> Faith-talk:
  > >> 
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> _______________________________________________
  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > >> Faith-talk:
  > >> 
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
  > >>
  > >
  > >
  > > _______________________________________________
  > > Faith-talk mailing list
  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > > Faith-talk:
  > > 
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > _______________________________________________
  > > Faith-talk mailing list
  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > > Faith-talk:
  > > 
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
  > >
  >
  >_______________________________________________
  >Faith-talk mailing list
  >Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
  >for Faith-talk:
  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40frontiernet.net

  _______________________________________________
  Faith-talk mailing list
  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net


From albert at myblindspot.org  Sat Feb  6 17:57:14 2010
From: albert at myblindspot.org (Albert J Rizzi)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 12:57:14 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction bywriterswhoexpresstheirFaithintheirfiction
In-Reply-To: <20100206170851.95BCF14D81C4@gate1.gate.dfw.mlsrvr.com>
References: <20100206170851.95BCF14D81C4@gate1.gate.dfw.mlsrvr.com>
Message-ID: <37E60C2876B447569B62141C60B7224D@JkTC4D1>

It is never off topic speaking about our youth and empowering them to
greatness.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn


-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of mary wurtzel
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:40 PM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction
bywriterswhoexpresstheirFaithintheirfiction

Hi,
That is the second book with them, RFBANDD.
I  will need Fred's help with this.
He just returned from the Washington seminar.  He had 3 young 
boys who are from our schl district that he was mentoring.  I am 
really proud of him and our youth coordinator, Melinda Latham who 
got the grant to take the kids.  She  mentored the girls who 
went.  They even took an overnight train.
I guess this is off topic but as far as I am concerned it is how 
we live out our faith as well as serving the blind kids of our 
next generation.
Mary

_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
spot.org




From marywurtzel at comcast.net  Sat Feb  6 19:30:12 2010
From: marywurtzel at comcast.net (mary wurtzel)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:30:12 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and Church
Message-ID: <mailman.13.1593447327.15261.faith-talk_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Dear Linda,
I don't believe we should be rude.  Of course, we should be in 
God's will.  The fact is, though, that the NFB exists to change 
attitudes about blindness,  and this obviously includes in faith 
communities.  Blindness, as always, is one of our 
characteristics.  We also all have different gifts to offer.
I always felt guilty about not jumping into help our women's 
group inthe kitch.  I tried to go in there and help.  Sometimes I 
would be given a job.  I also tried to be in charge of our coffee 
fellowship time.  Of course  I was fine with baking and bringing 
things in to share.  I just wasn't good at seeting the table, 
putting things on the plates to sqve, etc.  This was not because 
of being blind, probably, it's just not my strength.  I am just 
saying that we all have different strengths and weaknesses.  If 
we are told we cannot participate because of being blind, then we 
need to address it because it could hurt another blind person who 
comes there inthe future, too.
I'm sure that many people have quietly and respectfuly changed 
the attitudes of people in their churches.  I also believe that 
there are some folks, bless them, who  just will "never get it."
Sorry to ramble on, but I don't post very often here on this 
list.  Thank you.
Mary

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Linda Mentink <mentink at frontiernet.net
>To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:21:24 -0600
>Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and Church

>Hi All,

>I believe that we should worship where we can grow spiritually, 
and
>where we agree with the teachings, not where the leadership will 
let
>us serve.  Conversations with the leaders is appropriate.  The
>question should be, "Lord, where do you want me to worship and 
serve
>You?" not, "what church or denomination will allow me to serve.  
Get
>involved in small ways when you decide you want to be a member, 
and
>above all, pray.  Blind people serve in many capacities; yes, 
even as
>Catholic priests.  It might be appropriate to get in touch with 
one,
>if you're interested in being a priest, and ask that person to be 
an
>advocate for you.  But be sure you are in the Lord's will, not 
your
>own.  Ask if you can do something on a trial basis, if it's 
something
>they don't think a blind person can do.  And, be respectful!

>Over the years, I have been involved in many church
>ministries--prayer chain chairman, deaconess, AWANA leader, 
missions
>committee member, music committee member and chairman, pianist,
>worship planner, choir member, choir director, and soloist.  I 
didn't
>barge in; I just offered.  But it never was, "To me be the glory,
>great things I can do."  Of course, I have been denied 
opportunities,
>but I accepted that as God's will, and was glad to be less busy.


>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
urtzel%40comcast.net



From albert at myblindspot.org  Sat Feb  6 20:12:51 2010
From: albert at myblindspot.org (Albert J Rizzi)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:12:51 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <B0EF6ACF9D8F4DC0B610679258563485@DGQ81V31>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn><730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.com><20100205233012.D67885FDD7@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
	<B0EF6ACF9D8F4DC0B610679258563485@DGQ81V31>
Message-ID: <6DE9FED025824083A2EEC3870E163D5F@JkTC4D1>

All of gods children should be able to give testament  to his glorious name
in spite of and despite genitalia 

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn



-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of devona able
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:34 PM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

Women do not belong in the pulpit.

Devona
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Penny Golden 
  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion 
  Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 5:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


  Oh, Beth, I just have to laugh.
  The Holy Scriptures are also patriarchal in some ways.
  So though we believe in women's rights, some of us believe that there 
  is Biblical reason not to seek ordination as women.
  However, most folk do not hold to that anymore.  So we're in a 
  distinct minority.
  It's a subject on which we feel the Scriptures speak without 
  equivocation; but most do not think that we're right in our
interpretation.
  We'll not agree on some things, here, that's certain.
  Have a blest weekend.
    At 08:46 AM 2/5/2010, you wrote:
  >YOu're right.  Both of you.  But I am a believer in rights for women
  >to serve in high roles in churches.  Catholicism is notorious for
  >being so patriarchal.
  >Beth
  >
  >On 2/5/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
  > > The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some, for
  > > whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. I
don't
  > > agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a blind
  > > person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar.
  > >  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
  > > Chairman
  > >
  > >
  > > Xavier Society for the Blind
  > > 154 East 23rd St
  > > New York, NY 10010
  > > (212) 473-7800
  > > Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
searching
  > > the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
  > > powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > ________________________________
  > > From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
  > > To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  > > Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  > >
  > > This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
  > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan"
  > > <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
  > > To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  > > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  > >
  > >
  > >> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know
of
  > >> blind lectors all over the U.S.
  > >> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
  > >> Chairman
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> Xavier Society for the Blind
  > >> 154 East 23rd St
  > >> New York, NY 10010
  > >> (212) 473-7800
  > >> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
searching
  > >> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com
-
  > >> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> ________________________________
  > >> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
  > >> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
  > >> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  > >> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
  > >> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  > >>
  > >> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include
  > >> braille
  > >> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read
during the
  > >> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell
them
  > >> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his
table.
  > >>
  > >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  > >> CEO/Founder
  > >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  > >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  > >> New York, New York  10004
  > >> www.myblindspot.org
  > >> PH: 917-553-0347
  > >> Fax: 212-858-5759
  > >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who is
  > >> doing it."
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> -----Original Message-----
  > >> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
  > >> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
  > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
  > >> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
  > >> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  > >>
  > >> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
  > >> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How
did you
  > >> respond? RJ
  > >> _______________________________________________
  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > >> Faith-talk:
  > >> 
  >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
  > >> spot.org
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> _______________________________________________
  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > >> Faith-talk:
  > >> 
  >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfor
theblind%40yahoo.com
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> _______________________________________________
  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > >> Faith-talk:
  > >> 
  >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksande
fur%40gmail.com
  > >>
  > >
  > >
  > > _______________________________________________
  > > Faith-talk mailing list
  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > > Faith-talk:
  > > 
  >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfor
theblind%40yahoo.com
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > _______________________________________________
  > > Faith-talk mailing list
  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > > Faith-talk:
  > > 
  >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%
40gmail.com
  > >
  >
  >_______________________________________________
  >Faith-talk mailing list
  >Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
  >for Faith-talk:
 
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40front
iernet.net

  _______________________________________________
  Faith-talk mailing list
  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40wind
stream.net
_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
spot.org




From mentink at frontiernet.net  Sat Feb  6 20:31:16 2010
From: mentink at frontiernet.net (Linda Mentink)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:31:16 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Changing Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <20100206190635.63C5D4023@z-mta02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
References: <20100206190635.63C5D4023@z-mta02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <20100206203115.A4D515FD92@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

Dear Mary,

I don't post much, either.  Yes, we want to change attitudes about 
blindness, and that's one reason why the division sponsor of this 
list was formed.  When RJ brought this up, he said something like, "I 
don't have this problem, but ..." That's not an exact quote, but the 
jist was that he was posing a hypothetical question. But it's real in 
the lives of many blind church members and seekers.

Blessings,

Linda

At 01:30 PM 2/6/2010, you wrote:
>Dear Linda,
>I don't believe we should be rude.  Of course, we should be in God's 
>will.  The fact is, though, that the NFB exists to change attitudes 
>about blindness,  and this obviously includes in faith 
>communities.  Blindness, as always, is one of our 
>characteristics.  We also all have different gifts to offer.
>I always felt guilty about not jumping into help our women's group 
>inthe kitch.  I tried to go in there and help.  Sometimes I would be 
>given a job.  I also tried to be in charge of our coffee fellowship 
>time.  Of course  I was fine with baking and bringing things in to 
>share.  I just wasn't good at seeting the table, putting things on 
>the plates to sqve, etc.  This was not because of being blind, 
>probably, it's just not my strength.  I am just saying that we all 
>have different strengths and weaknesses.  If we are told we cannot 
>participate because of being blind, then we need to address it 
>because it could hurt another blind person who comes there inthe future, too.
>I'm sure that many people have quietly and respectfuly changed the 
>attitudes of people in their churches.  I also believe that there 
>are some folks, bless them, who  just will "never get it."
>Sorry to ramble on, but I don't post very often here on this list.  Thank you.
>Mary
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Linda Mentink <mentink at frontiernet.net
>>To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:21:24 -0600
>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and Church
>
>>Hi All,
>
>>I believe that we should worship where we can grow spiritually,
>and
>>where we agree with the teachings, not where the leadership will
>let
>>us serve.  Conversations with the leaders is appropriate.  The
>>question should be, "Lord, where do you want me to worship and
>serve
>>You?" not, "what church or denomination will allow me to serve.
>Get
>>involved in small ways when you decide you want to be a member,
>and
>>above all, pray.  Blind people serve in many capacities; yes,
>even as
>>Catholic priests.  It might be appropriate to get in touch with
>one,
>>if you're interested in being a priest, and ask that person to be
>an
>>advocate for you.  But be sure you are in the Lord's will, not
>your
>>own.  Ask if you can do something on a trial basis, if it's
>something
>>they don't think a blind person can do.  And, be respectful!
>
>>Over the years, I have been involved in many church
>>ministries--prayer chain chairman, deaconess, AWANA leader,
>missions
>>committee member, music committee member and chairman, pianist,
>>worship planner, choir member, choir director, and soloist.  I
>didn't
>>barge in; I just offered.  But it never was, "To me be the glory,
>>great things I can do."  Of course, I have been denied
>opportunities,
>>but I accepted that as God's will, and was glad to be less busy.
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>urtzel%40comcast.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40frontiernet.net
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2670 - Release Date: 
>02/05/10 13:35:00





From kk3f at msn.com  Sat Feb  6 20:34:53 2010
From: kk3f at msn.com (pat gormley)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:34:53 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Changing Attitudes
References: <20100206190635.63C5D4023@z-mta02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
	<20100206203115.A4D515FD92@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP78338B904BA2E99CE3764E90530@phx.gbl>

remember too that Phoebe was a deaconess in Acts so women do have a part to 
play.  Also, the altar girl situation has changed significantly because 
there is a shortage of people to serve in that capacity so those attitudes 
had to change for the function to continue.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Linda Mentink" <mentink at frontiernet.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: [Faith-talk] Changing Attitudes


> Dear Mary,
>
> I don't post much, either.  Yes, we want to change attitudes about 
> blindness, and that's one reason why the division sponsor of this list was 
> formed.  When RJ brought this up, he said something like, "I don't have 
> this problem, but ..." That's not an exact quote, but the jist was that he 
> was posing a hypothetical question. But it's real in the lives of many 
> blind church members and seekers.
>
> Blessings,
>
> Linda
>
> At 01:30 PM 2/6/2010, you wrote:
>>Dear Linda,
>>I don't believe we should be rude.  Of course, we should be in God's will. 
>>The fact is, though, that the NFB exists to change attitudes about 
>>blindness,  and this obviously includes in faith communities.  Blindness, 
>>as always, is one of our characteristics.  We also all have different 
>>gifts to offer.
>>I always felt guilty about not jumping into help our women's group inthe 
>>kitch.  I tried to go in there and help.  Sometimes I would be given a 
>>job.  I also tried to be in charge of our coffee fellowship time.  Of 
>>course  I was fine with baking and bringing things in to share.  I just 
>>wasn't good at seeting the table, putting things on the plates to sqve, 
>>etc.  This was not because of being blind, probably, it's just not my 
>>strength.  I am just saying that we all have different strengths and 
>>weaknesses.  If we are told we cannot participate because of being blind, 
>>then we need to address it because it could hurt another blind person who 
>>comes there inthe future, too.
>>I'm sure that many people have quietly and respectfuly changed the 
>>attitudes of people in their churches.  I also believe that there are some 
>>folks, bless them, who  just will "never get it."
>>Sorry to ramble on, but I don't post very often here on this list.  Thank 
>>you.
>>Mary
>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Linda Mentink <mentink at frontiernet.net
>>>To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:21:24 -0600
>>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and Church
>>
>>>Hi All,
>>
>>>I believe that we should worship where we can grow spiritually,
>>and
>>>where we agree with the teachings, not where the leadership will
>>let
>>>us serve.  Conversations with the leaders is appropriate.  The
>>>question should be, "Lord, where do you want me to worship and
>>serve
>>>You?" not, "what church or denomination will allow me to serve.
>>Get
>>>involved in small ways when you decide you want to be a member,
>>and
>>>above all, pray.  Blind people serve in many capacities; yes,
>>even as
>>>Catholic priests.  It might be appropriate to get in touch with
>>one,
>>>if you're interested in being a priest, and ask that person to be
>>an
>>>advocate for you.  But be sure you are in the Lord's will, not
>>your
>>>own.  Ask if you can do something on a trial basis, if it's
>>something
>>>they don't think a blind person can do.  And, be respectful!
>>
>>>Over the years, I have been involved in many church
>>>ministries--prayer chain chairman, deaconess, AWANA leader,
>>missions
>>>committee member, music committee member and chairman, pianist,
>>>worship planner, choir member, choir director, and soloist.  I
>>didn't
>>>barge in; I just offered.  But it never was, "To me be the glory,
>>>great things I can do."  Of course, I have been denied
>>opportunities,
>>>but I accepted that as God's will, and was glad to be less busy.
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>>urtzel%40comcast.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40frontiernet.net
>>
>>
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2670 - Release Date: 02/05/10 
>>13:35:00
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
> 




From albert at myblindspot.org  Sat Feb  6 20:57:30 2010
From: albert at myblindspot.org (Albert J Rizzi)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:57:30 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Changing Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <20100206203115.A4D515FD92@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
References: <20100206190635.63C5D4023@z-mta02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
	<20100206203115.A4D515FD92@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <47DA32675CD845D2834F0E3D808C0DAD@JkTC4D1>

I am not having any issues with acceptance  in my church. We are a united
church of Christ and are open and affirming of all people of all backgrounds
and orientations. I sing in the church choir and am often asked to read from
the bible during our service. I am trying to perfect my braille skills, but
until I do that, my deacon is all to happy to type up the passages for me to
read, email them to me and I then use my computer in hand to and participate
as fully as any other congregant.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn



-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Linda Mentink
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:31 PM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: [Faith-talk] Changing Attitudes

Dear Mary,

I don't post much, either.  Yes, we want to change attitudes about 
blindness, and that's one reason why the division sponsor of this 
list was formed.  When RJ brought this up, he said something like, "I 
don't have this problem, but ..." That's not an exact quote, but the 
jist was that he was posing a hypothetical question. But it's real in 
the lives of many blind church members and seekers.

Blessings,

Linda

At 01:30 PM 2/6/2010, you wrote:
>Dear Linda,
>I don't believe we should be rude.  Of course, we should be in God's 
>will.  The fact is, though, that the NFB exists to change attitudes 
>about blindness,  and this obviously includes in faith 
>communities.  Blindness, as always, is one of our 
>characteristics.  We also all have different gifts to offer.
>I always felt guilty about not jumping into help our women's group 
>inthe kitch.  I tried to go in there and help.  Sometimes I would be 
>given a job.  I also tried to be in charge of our coffee fellowship 
>time.  Of course  I was fine with baking and bringing things in to 
>share.  I just wasn't good at seeting the table, putting things on 
>the plates to sqve, etc.  This was not because of being blind, 
>probably, it's just not my strength.  I am just saying that we all 
>have different strengths and weaknesses.  If we are told we cannot 
>participate because of being blind, then we need to address it 
>because it could hurt another blind person who comes there inthe future,
too.
>I'm sure that many people have quietly and respectfuly changed the 
>attitudes of people in their churches.  I also believe that there 
>are some folks, bless them, who  just will "never get it."
>Sorry to ramble on, but I don't post very often here on this list.  Thank
you.
>Mary
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Linda Mentink <mentink at frontiernet.net
>>To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:21:24 -0600
>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and Church
>
>>Hi All,
>
>>I believe that we should worship where we can grow spiritually,
>and
>>where we agree with the teachings, not where the leadership will
>let
>>us serve.  Conversations with the leaders is appropriate.  The
>>question should be, "Lord, where do you want me to worship and
>serve
>>You?" not, "what church or denomination will allow me to serve.
>Get
>>involved in small ways when you decide you want to be a member,
>and
>>above all, pray.  Blind people serve in many capacities; yes,
>even as
>>Catholic priests.  It might be appropriate to get in touch with
>one,
>>if you're interested in being a priest, and ask that person to be
>an
>>advocate for you.  But be sure you are in the Lord's will, not
>your
>>own.  Ask if you can do something on a trial basis, if it's
>something
>>they don't think a blind person can do.  And, be respectful!
>
>>Over the years, I have been involved in many church
>>ministries--prayer chain chairman, deaconess, AWANA leader,
>missions
>>committee member, music committee member and chairman, pianist,
>>worship planner, choir member, choir director, and soloist.  I
>didn't
>>barge in; I just offered.  But it never was, "To me be the glory,
>>great things I can do."  Of course, I have been denied
>opportunities,
>>but I accepted that as God's will, and was glad to be less busy.
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>urtzel%40comcast.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40front
iernet.net
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2670 - Release Date: 
>02/05/10 13:35:00



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From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 21:21:28 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:21:28 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn><730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.com><20100205233012.D67885FDD7@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
	<B0EF6ACF9D8F4DC0B610679258563485@DGQ81V31>
Message-ID: <506F5CE4D7B84061853298726D1A9950@hometwxakonvzn>

Do you have scripture in order to back up your statement? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "devona able" <djasister at windstream.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Women do not belong in the pulpit.
>
> Devona
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Penny Golden
>  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>  Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 5:30 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>  Oh, Beth, I just have to laugh.
>  The Holy Scriptures are also patriarchal in some ways.
>  So though we believe in women's rights, some of us believe that there
>  is Biblical reason not to seek ordination as women.
>  However, most folk do not hold to that anymore.  So we're in a
>  distinct minority.
>  It's a subject on which we feel the Scriptures speak without
>  equivocation; but most do not think that we're right in our 
> interpretation.
>  We'll not agree on some things, here, that's certain.
>  Have a blest weekend.
>    At 08:46 AM 2/5/2010, you wrote:
>  >YOu're right.  Both of you.  But I am a believer in rights for women
>  >to serve in high roles in churches.  Catholicism is notorious for
>  >being so patriarchal.
>  >Beth
>  >
>  >On 2/5/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  > > The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some, 
> for
>  > > whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. I 
> don't
>  > > agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a 
> blind
>  > > person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar.
>  > >  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>  > > Chairman
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Xavier Society for the Blind
>  > > 154 East 23rd St
>  > > New York, NY 10010
>  > > (212) 473-7800
>  > > Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
> searching
>  > > the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - 
> www.goodsearch.com -
>  > > powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > ________________________________
>  > > From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>  > > To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>  > > Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
>  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  > >
>  > > This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
>  > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan"
>  > > <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
>  > > To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>  > > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
>  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know 
> of
>  > >> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>  > >> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>  > >> Chairman
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >> Xavier Society for the Blind
>  > >> 154 East 23rd St
>  > >> New York, NY 10010
>  > >> (212) 473-7800
>  > >> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
> searching
>  > >> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - 
> www.goodsearch.com -
>  > >> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >> ________________________________
>  > >> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
>  > >> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>  > >> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>  > >> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
>  > >> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  > >>
>  > >> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include
>  > >> braille
>  > >> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read 
> during the
>  > >> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell 
> them
>  > >> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his 
> table.
>  > >>
>  > >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>  > >> CEO/Founder
>  > >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>  > >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>  > >> New York, New York  10004
>  > >> www.myblindspot.org
>  > >> PH: 917-553-0347
>  > >> Fax: 212-858-5759
>  > >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one 
> who is
>  > >> doing it."
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >> -----Original Message-----
>  > >> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>  > >> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>  > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
>  > >> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>  > >> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  > >>
>  > >> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been 
> told
>  > >> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How 
> did you
>  > >> respond? RJ
>  > >> _______________________________________________
>  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
>  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for
>  > >> Faith-talk:
>  > >>
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
>  > >> spot.org
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >> _______________________________________________
>  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
>  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for
>  > >> Faith-talk:
>  > >>
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >> _______________________________________________
>  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
>  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for
>  > >> Faith-talk:
>  > >>
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>  > >>
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > _______________________________________________
>  > > Faith-talk mailing list
>  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  > > Faith-talk:
>  > >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > _______________________________________________
>  > > Faith-talk mailing list
>  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  > > Faith-talk:
>  > >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>  > >
>  >
>  >_______________________________________________
>  >Faith-talk mailing list
>  >Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>  >for Faith-talk:
> 
>  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40frontiernet.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Faith-talk mailing list
>  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From djasister at windstream.net  Sat Feb  6 21:33:05 2010
From: djasister at windstream.net (devona able)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:33:05 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn><730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.com><20100205233012.D67885FDD7@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net><B0EF6ACF9D8F4DC0B610679258563485@DGQ81V31>
	<506F5CE4D7B84061853298726D1A9950@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <C38F04281F2B46E8800FE8CEA4B90CCB@DGQ81V31>

Will look it up.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: RJ Sandefur 
  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion 
  Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


  Do you have scripture in order to back up your statement? RJ
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "devona able" <djasister at windstream.net>
  To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
  <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


  > Women do not belong in the pulpit.
  >
  > Devona
  >  ----- Original Message ----- 
  >  From: Penny Golden
  >  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
  >  Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 5:30 PM
  >  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  >
  >
  >  Oh, Beth, I just have to laugh.
  >  The Holy Scriptures are also patriarchal in some ways.
  >  So though we believe in women's rights, some of us believe that there
  >  is Biblical reason not to seek ordination as women.
  >  However, most folk do not hold to that anymore.  So we're in a
  >  distinct minority.
  >  It's a subject on which we feel the Scriptures speak without
  >  equivocation; but most do not think that we're right in our 
  > interpretation.
  >  We'll not agree on some things, here, that's certain.
  >  Have a blest weekend.
  >    At 08:46 AM 2/5/2010, you wrote:
  >  >YOu're right.  Both of you.  But I am a believer in rights for women
  >  >to serve in high roles in churches.  Catholicism is notorious for
  >  >being so patriarchal.
  >  >Beth
  >  >
  >  >On 2/5/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
  >  > > The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some, 
  > for
  >  > > whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. I 
  > don't
  >  > > agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a 
  > blind
  >  > > person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar.
  >  > >  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
  >  > > Chairman
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > > Xavier Society for the Blind
  >  > > 154 East 23rd St
  >  > > New York, NY 10010
  >  > > (212) 473-7800
  >  > > Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
  > searching
  >  > > the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - 
  > www.goodsearch.com -
  >  > > powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > > ________________________________
  >  > > From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
  >  > > To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
  >  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  >  > > Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
  >  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  >  > >
  >  > > This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
  >  > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan"
  >  > > <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
  >  > > To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
  >  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  >  > > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
  >  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > >> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know 
  > of
  >  > >> blind lectors all over the U.S.
  >  > >> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
  >  > >> Chairman
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >> Xavier Society for the Blind
  >  > >> 154 East 23rd St
  >  > >> New York, NY 10010
  >  > >> (212) 473-7800
  >  > >> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
  > searching
  >  > >> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - 
  > www.goodsearch.com -
  >  > >> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >> ________________________________
  >  > >> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
  >  > >> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
  >  > >> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  >  > >> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
  >  > >> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  >  > >>
  >  > >> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include
  >  > >> braille
  >  > >> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read 
  > during the
  >  > >> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell 
  > them
  >  > >> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his 
  > table.
  >  > >>
  >  > >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >  > >> CEO/Founder
  >  > >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >  > >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >  > >> New York, New York  10004
  >  > >> www.myblindspot.org
  >  > >> PH: 917-553-0347
  >  > >> Fax: 212-858-5759
  >  > >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one 
  > who is
  >  > >> doing it."
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >> -----Original Message-----
  >  > >> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
  > [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
  >  > >> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
  >  > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
  >  > >> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
  >  > >> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  >  > >>
  >  > >> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been 
  > told
  >  > >> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How 
  > did you
  >  > >> respond? RJ
  >  > >> _______________________________________________
  >  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  >  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
  > for
  >  > >> Faith-talk:
  >  > >>
  >  > 
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
  >  > >> spot.org
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >> _______________________________________________
  >  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  >  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
  > for
  >  > >> Faith-talk:
  >  > >>
  >  > 
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >> _______________________________________________
  >  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  >  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
  > for
  >  > >> Faith-talk:
  >  > >>
  >  > 
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
  >  > >>
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > > _______________________________________________
  >  > > Faith-talk mailing list
  >  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  >  > > Faith-talk:
  >  > >
  >  > 
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > > _______________________________________________
  >  > > Faith-talk mailing list
  >  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  >  > > Faith-talk:
  >  > >
  >  > 
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
  >  > >
  >  >
  >  >_______________________________________________
  >  >Faith-talk mailing list
  >  >Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
  >  >for Faith-talk:
  > 
  >  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40frontiernet.net
  >
  >  _______________________________________________
  >  Faith-talk mailing list
  >  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
  > Faith-talk:
  > 
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
  > _______________________________________________
  > Faith-talk mailing list
  > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
  > Faith-talk:
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 


  _______________________________________________
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From kk3f at msn.com  Sat Feb  6 21:36:45 2010
From: kk3f at msn.com (pat gormley)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:36:45 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn><730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.com><20100205233012.D67885FDD7@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net><B0EF6ACF9D8F4DC0B610679258563485@DGQ81V31><506F5CE4D7B84061853298726D1A9950@hometwxakonvzn>
	<C38F04281F2B46E8800FE8CEA4B90CCB@DGQ81V31>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP5832E706D549BC8767FF5A90530@phx.gbl>

There is small passage in Corinthians that got taken way out of context 
where Paul was talking about order in the church.  But at the same time, 
Phoebe was a deaconess in Acts and several of Paul's compatriots were women 
Priscilla and Aiodia and Syndicae mentioned in Philippians.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "devona able" <djasister at windstream.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Will look it up.
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: RJ Sandefur
>  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>  Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:21 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>  Do you have scripture in order to back up your statement? RJ
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: "devona able" <djasister at windstream.net>
>  To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>  <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>  Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:34 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>  > Women do not belong in the pulpit.
>  >
>  > Devona
>  >  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  >  From: Penny Golden
>  >  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>  >  Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 5:30 PM
>  >  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  >
>  >
>  >  Oh, Beth, I just have to laugh.
>  >  The Holy Scriptures are also patriarchal in some ways.
>  >  So though we believe in women's rights, some of us believe that there
>  >  is Biblical reason not to seek ordination as women.
>  >  However, most folk do not hold to that anymore.  So we're in a
>  >  distinct minority.
>  >  It's a subject on which we feel the Scriptures speak without
>  >  equivocation; but most do not think that we're right in our
>  > interpretation.
>  >  We'll not agree on some things, here, that's certain.
>  >  Have a blest weekend.
>  >    At 08:46 AM 2/5/2010, you wrote:
>  >  >YOu're right.  Both of you.  But I am a believer in rights for women
>  >  >to serve in high roles in churches.  Catholicism is notorious for
>  >  >being so patriarchal.
>  >  >Beth
>  >  >
>  >  >On 2/5/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> 
> wrote:
>  >  > > The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some,
>  > for
>  >  > > whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. 
> I
>  > don't
>  >  > > agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a
>  > blind
>  >  > > person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar.
>  >  > >  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>  >  > > Chairman
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > > Xavier Society for the Blind
>  >  > > 154 East 23rd St
>  >  > > New York, NY 10010
>  >  > > (212) 473-7800
>  >  > > Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>  > searching
>  >  > > the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch -
>  > www.goodsearch.com -
>  >  > > powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > > ________________________________
>  >  > > From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>  >  > > To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>  >  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>  >  > > Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
>  >  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  >  > >
>  >  > > This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
>  >  > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan"
>  >  > > <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
>  >  > > To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>  >  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>  >  > > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
>  >  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > >> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we 
> know
>  > of
>  >  > >> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>  >  > >> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>  >  > >> Chairman
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> Xavier Society for the Blind
>  >  > >> 154 East 23rd St
>  >  > >> New York, NY 10010
>  >  > >> (212) 473-7800
>  >  > >> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>  > searching
>  >  > >> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch -
>  > www.goodsearch.com -
>  >  > >> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> ________________________________
>  >  > >> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
>  >  > >> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>  >  > >> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>  >  > >> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
>  >  > >> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to 
> include
>  >  > >> braille
>  >  > >> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read
>  > during the
>  >  > >> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, 
> tell
>  > them
>  >  > >> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at 
> his
>  > table.
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>  >  > >> CEO/Founder
>  >  > >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>  >  > >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>  >  > >> New York, New York  10004
>  >  > >> www.myblindspot.org
>  >  > >> PH: 917-553-0347
>  >  > >> Fax: 212-858-5759
>  >  > >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the 
> one
>  > who is
>  >  > >> doing it."
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> -----Original Message-----
>  >  > >> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>  > [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>  >  > >> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>  >  > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
>  >  > >> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>  >  > >> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been
>  > told
>  >  > >> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, 
> How
>  > did you
>  >  > >> respond? RJ
>  >  > >> _______________________________________________
>  >  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>  > for
>  >  > >> Faith-talk:
>  >  > >>
>  >  >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
>  >  > >> spot.org
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> _______________________________________________
>  >  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>  > for
>  >  > >> Faith-talk:
>  >  > >>
>  >  >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> _______________________________________________
>  >  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>  > for
>  >  > >> Faith-talk:
>  >  > >>
>  >  >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > > _______________________________________________
>  >  > > Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for
>  >  > > Faith-talk:
>  >  > >
>  >  >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > > _______________________________________________
>  >  > > Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for
>  >  > > Faith-talk:
>  >  > >
>  >  >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>  >  > >
>  >  >
>  >  >_______________________________________________
>  >  >Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  >Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>  >  >for Faith-talk:
>  >
>  > 
>  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40frontiernet.net
>  >
>  >  _______________________________________________
>  >  Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  > Faith-talk:
>  >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Faith-talk mailing list
>  > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  > Faith-talk:
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Faith-talk mailing list
>  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
> 




From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 21:44:24 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:44:24 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Changing Attitudes
References: <20100206190635.63C5D4023@z-mta02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
	<20100206203115.A4D515FD92@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <1EA3B6ECB9F145CEA184EBB1BB6041F1@hometwxakonvzn>

My point actly Lynda, I was saying If you did have a problem, how did you 
handel it? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Linda Mentink" <mentink at frontiernet.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: [Faith-talk] Changing Attitudes


> Dear Mary,
>
> I don't post much, either.  Yes, we want to change attitudes about 
> blindness, and that's one reason why the division sponsor of this list was 
> formed.  When RJ brought this up, he said something like, "I don't have 
> this problem, but ..." That's not an exact quote, but the jist was that he 
> was posing a hypothetical question. But it's real in the lives of many 
> blind church members and seekers.
>
> Blessings,
>
> Linda
>
> At 01:30 PM 2/6/2010, you wrote:
>>Dear Linda,
>>I don't believe we should be rude.  Of course, we should be in God's will. 
>>The fact is, though, that the NFB exists to change attitudes about 
>>blindness,  and this obviously includes in faith communities.  Blindness, 
>>as always, is one of our characteristics.  We also all have different 
>>gifts to offer.
>>I always felt guilty about not jumping into help our women's group inthe 
>>kitch.  I tried to go in there and help.  Sometimes I would be given a 
>>job.  I also tried to be in charge of our coffee fellowship time.  Of 
>>course  I was fine with baking and bringing things in to share.  I just 
>>wasn't good at seeting the table, putting things on the plates to sqve, 
>>etc.  This was not because of being blind, probably, it's just not my 
>>strength.  I am just saying that we all have different strengths and 
>>weaknesses.  If we are told we cannot participate because of being blind, 
>>then we need to address it because it could hurt another blind person who 
>>comes there inthe future, too.
>>I'm sure that many people have quietly and respectfuly changed the 
>>attitudes of people in their churches.  I also believe that there are some 
>>folks, bless them, who  just will "never get it."
>>Sorry to ramble on, but I don't post very often here on this list.  Thank 
>>you.
>>Mary
>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Linda Mentink <mentink at frontiernet.net
>>>To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:21:24 -0600
>>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and Church
>>
>>>Hi All,
>>
>>>I believe that we should worship where we can grow spiritually,
>>and
>>>where we agree with the teachings, not where the leadership will
>>let
>>>us serve.  Conversations with the leaders is appropriate.  The
>>>question should be, "Lord, where do you want me to worship and
>>serve
>>>You?" not, "what church or denomination will allow me to serve.
>>Get
>>>involved in small ways when you decide you want to be a member,
>>and
>>>above all, pray.  Blind people serve in many capacities; yes,
>>even as
>>>Catholic priests.  It might be appropriate to get in touch with
>>one,
>>>if you're interested in being a priest, and ask that person to be
>>an
>>>advocate for you.  But be sure you are in the Lord's will, not
>>your
>>>own.  Ask if you can do something on a trial basis, if it's
>>something
>>>they don't think a blind person can do.  And, be respectful!
>>
>>>Over the years, I have been involved in many church
>>>ministries--prayer chain chairman, deaconess, AWANA leader,
>>missions
>>>committee member, music committee member and chairman, pianist,
>>>worship planner, choir member, choir director, and soloist.  I
>>didn't
>>>barge in; I just offered.  But it never was, "To me be the glory,
>>>great things I can do."  Of course, I have been denied
>>opportunities,
>>>but I accepted that as God's will, and was glad to be less busy.
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>>urtzel%40comcast.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40frontiernet.net
>>
>>
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2670 - Release Date: 02/05/10 
>>13:35:00
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 




From albert at myblindspot.org  Sat Feb  6 22:05:17 2010
From: albert at myblindspot.org (Albert J Rizzi)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:05:17 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <C38F04281F2B46E8800FE8CEA4B90CCB@DGQ81V31>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn><730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.com><20100205233012.D67885FDD7@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net><B0EF6ACF9D8F4DC0B610679258563485@DGQ81V31><506F5CE4D7B84061853298726D1A9950@hometwxakonvzn>
	<C38F04281F2B46E8800FE8CEA4B90CCB@DGQ81V31>
Message-ID: <1C0E18BBC9CE4EBE9F5D160DCAF64BD7@JkTC4D1>

Will be waiting on that for sure.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn



-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of devona able
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:33 PM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

Will look it up.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: RJ Sandefur 
  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion 
  Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


  Do you have scripture in order to back up your statement? RJ
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "devona able" <djasister at windstream.net>
  To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
  <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


  > Women do not belong in the pulpit.
  >
  > Devona
  >  ----- Original Message ----- 
  >  From: Penny Golden
  >  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
  >  Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 5:30 PM
  >  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  >
  >
  >  Oh, Beth, I just have to laugh.
  >  The Holy Scriptures are also patriarchal in some ways.
  >  So though we believe in women's rights, some of us believe that there
  >  is Biblical reason not to seek ordination as women.
  >  However, most folk do not hold to that anymore.  So we're in a
  >  distinct minority.
  >  It's a subject on which we feel the Scriptures speak without
  >  equivocation; but most do not think that we're right in our 
  > interpretation.
  >  We'll not agree on some things, here, that's certain.
  >  Have a blest weekend.
  >    At 08:46 AM 2/5/2010, you wrote:
  >  >YOu're right.  Both of you.  But I am a believer in rights for women
  >  >to serve in high roles in churches.  Catholicism is notorious for
  >  >being so patriarchal.
  >  >Beth
  >  >
  >  >On 2/5/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
wrote:
  >  > > The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some, 
  > for
  >  > > whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. I

  > don't
  >  > > agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a 
  > blind
  >  > > person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar.
  >  > >  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
  >  > > Chairman
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > > Xavier Society for the Blind
  >  > > 154 East 23rd St
  >  > > New York, NY 10010
  >  > > (212) 473-7800
  >  > > Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
  > searching
  >  > > the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - 
  > www.goodsearch.com -
  >  > > powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > > ________________________________
  >  > > From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
  >  > > To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
  >  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  >  > > Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
  >  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  >  > >
  >  > > This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
  >  > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan"
  >  > > <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
  >  > > To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
  >  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  >  > > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
  >  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > >> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we
know 
  > of
  >  > >> blind lectors all over the U.S.
  >  > >> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
  >  > >> Chairman
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >> Xavier Society for the Blind
  >  > >> 154 East 23rd St
  >  > >> New York, NY 10010
  >  > >> (212) 473-7800
  >  > >> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
  > searching
  >  > >> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - 
  > www.goodsearch.com -
  >  > >> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >> ________________________________
  >  > >> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
  >  > >> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
  >  > >> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  >  > >> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
  >  > >> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  >  > >>
  >  > >> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to
include
  >  > >> braille
  >  > >> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read 
  > during the
  >  > >> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief,
tell 
  > them
  >  > >> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at
his 
  > table.
  >  > >>
  >  > >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >  > >> CEO/Founder
  >  > >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >  > >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >  > >> New York, New York  10004
  >  > >> www.myblindspot.org
  >  > >> PH: 917-553-0347
  >  > >> Fax: 212-858-5759
  >  > >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
one 
  > who is
  >  > >> doing it."
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >> -----Original Message-----
  >  > >> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
  > [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
  >  > >> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
  >  > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
  >  > >> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
  >  > >> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  >  > >>
  >  > >> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been 
  > told
  >  > >> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How

  > did you
  >  > >> respond? RJ
  >  > >> _______________________________________________
  >  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  >  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
  > for
  >  > >> Faith-talk:
  >  > >>
  >  > 
  >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
  >  > >> spot.org
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >> _______________________________________________
  >  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  >  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
  > for
  >  > >> Faith-talk:
  >  > >>
  >  > 
  >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfor
theblind%40yahoo.com
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >>
  >  > >> _______________________________________________
  >  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  >  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
  > for
  >  > >> Faith-talk:
  >  > >>
  >  > 
  >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksande
fur%40gmail.com
  >  > >>
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > > _______________________________________________
  >  > > Faith-talk mailing list
  >  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
  >  > > Faith-talk:
  >  > >
  >  > 
  >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfor
theblind%40yahoo.com
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > >
  >  > > _______________________________________________
  >  > > Faith-talk mailing list
  >  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
  >  > > Faith-talk:
  >  > >
  >  > 
  >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%
40gmail.com
  >  > >
  >  >
  >  >_______________________________________________
  >  >Faith-talk mailing list
  >  >Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
  >  >for Faith-talk:
  > 
  >
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40front
iernet.net
  >
  >  _______________________________________________
  >  Faith-talk mailing list
  >  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
  > Faith-talk:
  > 
  >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40wind
stream.net
  > _______________________________________________
  > Faith-talk mailing list
  > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
  > Faith-talk:
  >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksande
fur%40gmail.com 


  _______________________________________________
  Faith-talk mailing list
  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40wind
stream.net
_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
spot.org




From marywurtzel at comcast.net  Sun Feb  7 00:17:04 2010
From: marywurtzel at comcast.net (mary wurtzel)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:17:04 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Changing Attitudes
Message-ID: <mailman.14.1593447327.15261.faith-talk_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>


dear Linda
I'm confused.  Do you mean by "this problem" (I wish I kept 
e-mail) people going about getting some job they want to do in 
their church inthe wrong way?
Mary

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Linda Mentink <mentink at frontiernet.net
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:31:16 -0600
>Subject: [Faith-talk] Changing Attitudes

>Dear Mary,

>I don't post much, either.  Yes, we want to change attitudes 
about
>blindness, and that's one reason why the division sponsor of this
>list was formed.  When RJ brought this up, he said something 
like, "I
>don't have this problem, but ..." That's not an exact quote, but 
the
>jist was that he was posing a hypothetical question.  But it's 
real in
>the lives of many blind church members and seekers.

>Blessings,

>Linda

>At 01:30 PM 2/6/2010, you wrote:
>>Dear Linda,
>>I don't believe we should be rude.  Of course, we should be in 
God's
>>will.  The fact is, though, that the NFB exists to change 
attitudes
>>about blindness,  and this obviously includes in faith
>>communities.  Blindness, as always, is one of our
>>characteristics.  We also all have different gifts to offer.
>>I always felt guilty about not jumping into help our women's 
group
>>inthe kitch.  I tried to go in there and help.  Sometimes I would 
be
>>given a job.  I also tried to be in charge of our coffee 
fellowship
>>time.  Of course  I was fine with baking and bringing things in 
to
>>share.  I just wasn't good at seeting the table, putting things 
on
>>the plates to sqve, etc.  This was not because of being blind,
>>probably, it's just not my strength.  I am just saying that we 
all
>>have different strengths and weaknesses.  If we are told we 
cannot
>>participate because of being blind, then we need to address it
>>because it could hurt another blind person who comes there inthe 
future, too.
>>I'm sure that many people have quietly and respectfuly changed 
the
>>attitudes of people in their churches.  I also believe that there
>>are some folks, bless them, who  just will "never get it."
>>Sorry to ramble on, but I don't post very often here on this 
list.  Thank you.
>>Mary

>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Linda Mentink <mentink at frontiernet.net
>>>To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:21:24 -0600
>>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and Church

>>>Hi All,

>>>I believe that we should worship where we can grow spiritually,
>>and
>>>where we agree with the teachings, not where the leadership will
>>let
>>>us serve.  Conversations with the leaders is appropriate.  The
>>>question should be, "Lord, where do you want me to worship and
>>serve
>>>You?" not, "what church or denomination will allow me to serve.
>>Get
>>>involved in small ways when you decide you want to be a member,
>>and
>>>above all, pray.  Blind people serve in many capacities; yes,
>>even as
>>>Catholic priests.  It might be appropriate to get in touch with
>>one,
>>>if you're interested in being a priest, and ask that person to be
>>an
>>>advocate for you.  But be sure you are in the Lord's will, not
>>your
>>>own.  Ask if you can do something on a trial basis, if it's
>>something
>>>they don't think a blind person can do.  And, be respectful!

>>>Over the years, I have been involved in many church
>>>ministries--prayer chain chairman, deaconess, AWANA leader,
>>missions
>>>committee member, music committee member and chairman, pianist,
>>>worship planner, choir member, choir director, and soloist.  I
>>didn't
>>>barge in; I just offered.  But it never was, "To me be the glory,
>>>great things I can do."  Of course, I have been denied
>>opportunities,
>>>but I accepted that as God's will, and was glad to be less busy.


>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>>urtzel%40comcast.net

>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/menti
nk%40frontiernet.net


>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2670 - Release Date:
>>02/05/10 13:35:00



>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
urtzel%40comcast.net



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 23:19:16 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:19:16 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn><730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.com><20100205233012.D67885FDD7@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net><B0EF6ACF9D8F4DC0B610679258563485@DGQ81V31><506F5CE4D7B84061853298726D1A9950@hometwxakonvzn>
	<C38F04281F2B46E8800FE8CEA4B90CCB@DGQ81V31>
Message-ID: <14FEEA32BD3943F2AA6C690513CE1F7A@hometwxakonvzn>

Thanks. I've always been one to say, if you make a statement about something 
reguarding the bible, you need to support it with scripture. Thats what I 
was taught in the seminary. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "devona able" <djasister at windstream.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Will look it up.
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: RJ Sandefur
>  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>  Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:21 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>  Do you have scripture in order to back up your statement? RJ
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: "devona able" <djasister at windstream.net>
>  To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>  <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>  Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:34 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>  > Women do not belong in the pulpit.
>  >
>  > Devona
>  >  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  >  From: Penny Golden
>  >  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>  >  Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 5:30 PM
>  >  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  >
>  >
>  >  Oh, Beth, I just have to laugh.
>  >  The Holy Scriptures are also patriarchal in some ways.
>  >  So though we believe in women's rights, some of us believe that there
>  >  is Biblical reason not to seek ordination as women.
>  >  However, most folk do not hold to that anymore.  So we're in a
>  >  distinct minority.
>  >  It's a subject on which we feel the Scriptures speak without
>  >  equivocation; but most do not think that we're right in our
>  > interpretation.
>  >  We'll not agree on some things, here, that's certain.
>  >  Have a blest weekend.
>  >    At 08:46 AM 2/5/2010, you wrote:
>  >  >YOu're right.  Both of you.  But I am a believer in rights for women
>  >  >to serve in high roles in churches.  Catholicism is notorious for
>  >  >being so patriarchal.
>  >  >Beth
>  >  >
>  >  >On 2/5/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> 
> wrote:
>  >  > > The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some,
>  > for
>  >  > > whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. 
> I
>  > don't
>  >  > > agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a
>  > blind
>  >  > > person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar.
>  >  > >  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>  >  > > Chairman
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > > Xavier Society for the Blind
>  >  > > 154 East 23rd St
>  >  > > New York, NY 10010
>  >  > > (212) 473-7800
>  >  > > Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>  > searching
>  >  > > the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch -
>  > www.goodsearch.com -
>  >  > > powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > > ________________________________
>  >  > > From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>  >  > > To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>  >  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>  >  > > Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
>  >  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  >  > >
>  >  > > This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
>  >  > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan"
>  >  > > <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
>  >  > > To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>  >  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>  >  > > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
>  >  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > >> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we 
> know
>  > of
>  >  > >> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>  >  > >> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>  >  > >> Chairman
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> Xavier Society for the Blind
>  >  > >> 154 East 23rd St
>  >  > >> New York, NY 10010
>  >  > >> (212) 473-7800
>  >  > >> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
>  > searching
>  >  > >> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch -
>  > www.goodsearch.com -
>  >  > >> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> ________________________________
>  >  > >> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
>  >  > >> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>  >  > >> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>  >  > >> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
>  >  > >> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to 
> include
>  >  > >> braille
>  >  > >> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read
>  > during the
>  >  > >> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, 
> tell
>  > them
>  >  > >> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at 
> his
>  > table.
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>  >  > >> CEO/Founder
>  >  > >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>  >  > >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>  >  > >> New York, New York  10004
>  >  > >> www.myblindspot.org
>  >  > >> PH: 917-553-0347
>  >  > >> Fax: 212-858-5759
>  >  > >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the 
> one
>  > who is
>  >  > >> doing it."
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> -----Original Message-----
>  >  > >> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>  > [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>  >  > >> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>  >  > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
>  >  > >> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>  >  > >> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been
>  > told
>  >  > >> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, 
> How
>  > did you
>  >  > >> respond? RJ
>  >  > >> _______________________________________________
>  >  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>  > for
>  >  > >> Faith-talk:
>  >  > >>
>  >  >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
>  >  > >> spot.org
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> _______________________________________________
>  >  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>  > for
>  >  > >> Faith-talk:
>  >  > >>
>  >  >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >> _______________________________________________
>  >  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>  > for
>  >  > >> Faith-talk:
>  >  > >>
>  >  >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>  >  > >>
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > > _______________________________________________
>  >  > > Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for
>  >  > > Faith-talk:
>  >  > >
>  >  >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > > _______________________________________________
>  >  > > Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for
>  >  > > Faith-talk:
>  >  > >
>  >  >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>  >  > >
>  >  >
>  >  >_______________________________________________
>  >  >Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  >Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>  >  >for Faith-talk:
>  >
>  > 
>  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40frontiernet.net
>  >
>  >  _______________________________________________
>  >  Faith-talk mailing list
>  >  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  > Faith-talk:
>  >
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Faith-talk mailing list
>  > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  > Faith-talk:
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From lauraeaves at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 23:50:19 2010
From: lauraeaves at yahoo.com (qubit)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:50:19 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn><730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.com><20100205233012.D67885FDD7@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
	<B0EF6ACF9D8F4DC0B610679258563485@DGQ81V31>
Message-ID: <4740B0126B8148C992B75C234B58C8CF@bassclef>

why do you say that?
--le

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "devona able" <djasister at windstream.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


Women do not belong in the pulpit.

Devona
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Penny Golden
  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
  Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 5:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


  Oh, Beth, I just have to laugh.
  The Holy Scriptures are also patriarchal in some ways.
  So though we believe in women's rights, some of us believe that there
  is Biblical reason not to seek ordination as women.
  However, most folk do not hold to that anymore.  So we're in a
  distinct minority.
  It's a subject on which we feel the Scriptures speak without
  equivocation; but most do not think that we're right in our 
interpretation.
  We'll not agree on some things, here, that's certain.
  Have a blest weekend.
    At 08:46 AM 2/5/2010, you wrote:
  >YOu're right.  Both of you.  But I am a believer in rights for women
  >to serve in high roles in churches.  Catholicism is notorious for
  >being so patriarchal.
  >Beth
  >
  >On 2/5/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
  > > The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some, for
  > > whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. I 
don't
  > > agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a blind
  > > person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar.
  > >  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
  > > Chairman
  > >
  > >
  > > Xavier Society for the Blind
  > > 154 East 23rd St
  > > New York, NY 10010
  > > (212) 473-7800
  > > Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
searching
  > > the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
  > > powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > ________________________________
  > > From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
  > > To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  > > Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  > >
  > > This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
  > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan"
  > > <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
  > > To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
  > > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  > > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
  > > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  > >
  > >
  > >> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know 
of
  > >> blind lectors all over the U.S.
  > >> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
  > >> Chairman
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> Xavier Society for the Blind
  > >> 154 East 23rd St
  > >> New York, NY 10010
  > >> (212) 473-7800
  > >> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
searching
  > >> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - 
www.goodsearch.com -
  > >> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> ________________________________
  > >> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
  > >> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
  > >> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  > >> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
  > >> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  > >>
  > >> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include
  > >> braille
  > >> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read 
during the
  > >> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell 
them
  > >> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his 
table.
  > >>
  > >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  > >> CEO/Founder
  > >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  > >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  > >> New York, New York  10004
  > >> www.myblindspot.org
  > >> PH: 917-553-0347
  > >> Fax: 212-858-5759
  > >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one 
who is
  > >> doing it."
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> -----Original Message-----
  > >> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
  > >> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
  > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
  > >> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
  > >> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
  > >>
  > >> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
  > >> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How 
did you
  > >> respond? RJ
  > >> _______________________________________________
  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > >> Faith-talk:
  > >>
  > 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
  > >> spot.org
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> _______________________________________________
  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > >> Faith-talk:
  > >>
  > 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> _______________________________________________
  > >> Faith-talk mailing list
  > >> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > >> Faith-talk:
  > >>
  > 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
  > >>
  > >
  > >
  > > _______________________________________________
  > > Faith-talk mailing list
  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > > Faith-talk:
  > >
  > 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > _______________________________________________
  > > Faith-talk mailing list
  > > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > > Faith-talk:
  > >
  > 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
  > >
  >
  >_______________________________________________
  >Faith-talk mailing list
  >Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
  >for Faith-talk:
  >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40frontiernet.net

  _______________________________________________
  Faith-talk mailing list
  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
Faith-talk:
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
Faith-talk:
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From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 00:38:27 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:38:27 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] question
Message-ID: <FE6FA0D34C3C411A81B85499877932F2@hometwxakonvzn>

David, What happened to Florida's list? RJ

From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Feb  7 02:21:08 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:21:08 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] question
In-Reply-To: <FE6FA0D34C3C411A81B85499877932F2@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <FE6FA0D34C3C411A81B85499877932F2@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <auto-000138357338@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Nothing happened to it -- it is still there.

Dave

06:38 PM 2/6/2010, you wrote:
>David, What happened to Florida's list? RJ




From mentink at frontiernet.net  Sun Feb  7 02:31:19 2010
From: mentink at frontiernet.net (Linda Mentink)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:31:19 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Changing Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <20100206234412.77C8B3FC75@z-mta06.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
References: <20100206234412.77C8B3FC75@z-mta06.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <20100207022937.94EDA10FA3B@relay02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

Mary, RJ was asking how we handled it if we aren't allowed to take 
part somewhere in the church ministries, and he said he didn't have 
that problem. I have encountered mostly positive responses to my 
offers to minister, and was asked to be a deaconess (I didn't offer 
to do that).

We need to be respectful of the leadership, and teach them at the 
same time about blindness.

Blessings,

Linda

At 06:17 PM 2/6/2010, you wrote:

>dear Linda
>I'm confused.  Do you mean by "this problem" (I wish I kept e-mail) 
>people going about getting some job they want to do in their church 
>inthe wrong way?
>Mary
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Linda Mentink <mentink at frontiernet.net
>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
><faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:31:16 -0600
>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Changing Attitudes
>
>>Dear Mary,
>
>>I don't post much, either.  Yes, we want to change attitudes
>about
>>blindness, and that's one reason why the division sponsor of this
>>list was formed.  When RJ brought this up, he said something
>like, "I
>>don't have this problem, but ..." That's not an exact quote, but
>the
>>jist was that he was posing a hypothetical question.  But it's
>real in
>>the lives of many blind church members and seekers.
>
>>Blessings,
>
>>Linda
>
>>At 01:30 PM 2/6/2010, you wrote:
>>>Dear Linda,
>>>I don't believe we should be rude.  Of course, we should be in
>God's
>>>will.  The fact is, though, that the NFB exists to change
>attitudes
>>>about blindness,  and this obviously includes in faith
>>>communities.  Blindness, as always, is one of our
>>>characteristics.  We also all have different gifts to offer.
>>>I always felt guilty about not jumping into help our women's
>group
>>>inthe kitch.  I tried to go in there and help.  Sometimes I would
>be
>>>given a job.  I also tried to be in charge of our coffee
>fellowship
>>>time.  Of course  I was fine with baking and bringing things in
>to
>>>share.  I just wasn't good at seeting the table, putting things
>on
>>>the plates to sqve, etc.  This was not because of being blind,
>>>probably, it's just not my strength.  I am just saying that we
>all
>>>have different strengths and weaknesses.  If we are told we
>cannot
>>>participate because of being blind, then we need to address it
>>>because it could hurt another blind person who comes there inthe
>future, too.
>>>I'm sure that many people have quietly and respectfuly changed
>the
>>>attitudes of people in their churches.  I also believe that there
>>>are some folks, bless them, who  just will "never get it."
>>>Sorry to ramble on, but I don't post very often here on this
>list.  Thank you.
>>>Mary
>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: Linda Mentink <mentink at frontiernet.net
>>>>To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:21:24 -0600
>>>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and Church
>
>>>>Hi All,
>
>>>>I believe that we should worship where we can grow spiritually,
>>>and
>>>>where we agree with the teachings, not where the leadership will
>>>let
>>>>us serve.  Conversations with the leaders is appropriate.  The
>>>>question should be, "Lord, where do you want me to worship and
>>>serve
>>>>You?" not, "what church or denomination will allow me to serve.
>>>Get
>>>>involved in small ways when you decide you want to be a member,
>>>and
>>>>above all, pray.  Blind people serve in many capacities; yes,
>>>even as
>>>>Catholic priests.  It might be appropriate to get in touch with
>>>one,
>>>>if you're interested in being a priest, and ask that person to be
>>>an
>>>>advocate for you.  But be sure you are in the Lord's will, not
>>>your
>>>>own.  Ask if you can do something on a trial basis, if it's
>>>something
>>>>they don't think a blind person can do.  And, be respectful!
>
>>>>Over the years, I have been involved in many church
>>>>ministries--prayer chain chairman, deaconess, AWANA leader,
>>>missions
>>>>committee member, music committee member and chairman, pianist,
>>>>worship planner, choir member, choir director, and soloist.  I
>>>didn't
>>>>barge in; I just offered.  But it never was, "To me be the glory,
>>>>great things I can do."  Of course, I have been denied
>>>opportunities,
>>>>but I accepted that as God's will, and was glad to be less busy.
>
>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for Faith-talk:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>>>urtzel%40comcast.net
>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for Faith-talk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/menti
>nk%40frontiernet.net
>
>
>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2670 - Release Date:
>>>02/05/10 13:35:00
>
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
>urtzel%40comcast.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40frontiernet.net
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2672 - Release Date: 
>02/06/10 13:35:00





From mentink at frontiernet.net  Sun Feb  7 02:37:04 2010
From: mentink at frontiernet.net (Linda Mentink)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:37:04 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Women in the Pulpit
Message-ID: <20100207023703.46E521020B@relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

In 1 Timothy 3, beginning at the first verse, the Bible states that 
Bishops should be the husband of one wife.  In Titus 1:5-6 we read 
that elders should be the husband of one wife. Husbands would not be women.

Blessings,

Linda




From sanchez.maryellen at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 02:33:06 2010
From: sanchez.maryellen at gmail.com (mary sanchez)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:33:06 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] question
References: <FE6FA0D34C3C411A81B85499877932F2@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000138357338@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <189E967FA0BF4E978728D17D5FA09230@ownerf32575c2a>

hi how can i subscribe from a google group??
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] question


> Nothing happened to it -- it is still there.
>
> Dave
>
> 06:38 PM 2/6/2010, you wrote:
>>David, What happened to Florida's list? RJ
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/sanchez.maryellen%40gmail.com 




From goldpen at frontiernet.net  Sun Feb  7 03:14:21 2010
From: goldpen at frontiernet.net (Penny Golden)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:14:21 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Women in the Pulpit
In-Reply-To: <20100207023703.46E521020B@relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
References: <20100207023703.46E521020B@relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <20100207031232.D571110F904@relay02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

Why, Linda, how about the verse that says: I suffer not a woman to teach.
That's obviously in the context of the gathered church.  There are 
good reasons  in scripture why women are not really called to 
elder-ship or leader-ship positions.
It has nothing to do with the worth or worthiness of a woman.  Many 
are far better-equipped than their male counter-parts.  But the 
Bible, which we believe to be Divinely written and inspired, gives a 
hierarchy, which, I for one, would not be comfortable to gainsay.
Let the women keep silence in the church--I'm not quoting it quite 
rightly. i don't have a Bible program I can consult on the fly.

Some of our women, here, are preparing for ministry or are already in 
it.  I know we won't all agree on these things.  And normally, I 
don't say much to this issue, because some folks I really like are 
involved in positions that I would never aspire to--nor would we see 
a woman in those positions in our circle.

The headship issue in the home is the same.  But I won't get into 
that.  I do think there are exceptions regarding what is permissible 
in the home.  And wise women want to keep their place.  sometimes 
that can be a tight-rope.
As I say, I won't get into that one.

Carry on, list. I'll try to be quieter.
Penny.

At 08:37 PM 2/6/2010, you wrote:
>In 1 Timothy 3, beginning at the first verse, the Bible states that 
>Bishops should be the husband of one wife.  In Titus 1:5-6 we read 
>that elders should be the husband of one wife. Husbands would not be women.
>
>Blessings,
>
>Linda
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40frontiernet.net



From vlwalden at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 22:21:42 2010
From: vlwalden at gmail.com (Virginia Walden)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:21:42 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Starting Ordination Process in the Episcopal Diocese
	of Massachusetts
Message-ID: <bb2a9cd21002071421r2edb3b74j958ec7373ed7f736@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Faith-Talk Members,

I wrote a while back to introduce myself.  My name is Ginnie Walden and I'm
new to this list.  I am in the preliminary stages of seeking ordination to
the priesthood in the Episcopal Diocese of Massachusetts.  For those
familiar with the process in the Episcopal Church--I'm still in conversation
with my Rector.  No lay committee has been formed yet.

Does anyone on this list have experience serving as a parish priest (any
denomination)?  Does anyone know of a blind clergy person in the Episcopal
Church who might be willing to be in touch with me?  I'm looking to touch
base with someone about addressing questions regarding blindness in the
ordination process.  My Rector is wonderfully supportive so far, but it
would be great to get in touch with someone who is blind and serving as a
parish priest.

Thanks,
Ginnie
-- 
Virginia L. Walden
vlwalden at gmail.com


From djasister at windstream.net  Sun Feb  7 23:18:33 2010
From: djasister at windstream.net (devona able)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:18:33 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Women in the Pulpit
References: <20100207023703.46E521020B@relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <2A8098D6FCED4143B3A16B73B0BEF86F@DGQ81V31>

Thank you for looking that up.

Devona
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda Mentink 
  To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org 
  Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 8:37 PM
  Subject: [Faith-talk] Women in the Pulpit


  In 1 Timothy 3, beginning at the first verse, the Bible states that 
  Bishops should be the husband of one wife.  In Titus 1:5-6 we read 
  that elders should be the husband of one wife. Husbands would not be women.

  Blessings,

  Linda


  _______________________________________________
  Faith-talk mailing list
  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net


From george.mcdermith at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 23:34:15 2010
From: george.mcdermith at gmail.com (George McDermith)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:34:15 -0700
Subject: [Faith-talk] Starting Ordination Process in the Episcopal
	Diocese	of Massachusetts
In-Reply-To: <bb2a9cd21002071421r2edb3b74j958ec7373ed7f736@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bb2a9cd21002071421r2edb3b74j958ec7373ed7f736@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b6f4e07.9413f30a.783d.4ae2@mx.google.com>

	I wish you luck in your process and hope you will continue to post
your experiences to the list. About two years ago I attempted to obtain
ordination in the Anglican cChurch in North America, and in that process I
did find a link to a group of blind and deaf priests in the Episcopal
church, but did not end up contacting the group. The link was at the
Episcopal Church's National web site, and I'm sure you can find ti through
Google. Hope this helps, and again best of luck.

  Sincerely,

  George McDermith

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Virginia Walden
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 3:22 PM
To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Faith-talk] Starting Ordination Process in the Episcopal Diocese
of Massachusetts

Dear Faith-Talk Members,

I wrote a while back to introduce myself.  My name is Ginnie Walden and I'm
new to this list.  I am in the preliminary stages of seeking ordination to
the priesthood in the Episcopal Diocese of Massachusetts.  For those
familiar with the process in the Episcopal Church--I'm still in conversation
with my Rector.  No lay committee has been formed yet.

Does anyone on this list have experience serving as a parish priest (any
denomination)?  Does anyone know of a blind clergy person in the Episcopal
Church who might be willing to be in touch with me?  I'm looking to touch
base with someone about addressing questions regarding blindness in the
ordination process.  My Rector is wonderfully supportive so far, but it
would be great to get in touch with someone who is blind and serving as a
parish priest.

Thanks,
Ginnie
-- 
Virginia L. Walden
vlwalden at gmail.com
_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/george.mcdermith
%40gmail.com




From mentink at frontiernet.net  Mon Feb  8 03:29:32 2010
From: mentink at frontiernet.net (Linda Mentink)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:29:32 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Women in the Pulpit
In-Reply-To: <2A8098D6FCED4143B3A16B73B0BEF86F@DGQ81V31>
References: <20100207023703.46E521020B@relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
	<2A8098D6FCED4143B3A16B73B0BEF86F@DGQ81V31>
Message-ID: <20100208032747.9BDF310F7DA@relay02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

You're very welcome.
At 05:18 PM 2/7/2010, you wrote:
>Thank you for looking that up.
>
>Devona
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Linda Mentink
>   To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>   Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 8:37 PM
>   Subject: [Faith-talk] Women in the Pulpit
>
>
>   In 1 Timothy 3, beginning at the first verse, the Bible states that
>   Bishops should be the husband of one wife.  In Titus 1:5-6 we read
>   that elders should be the husband of one wife. Husbands would not be women.
>
>   Blessings,
>
>   Linda
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Faith-talk mailing list
>   Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>   http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for Faith-talk:
> 
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40frontiernet.net
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2672 - Release Date: 
>02/06/10 13:35:00





From mentink at frontiernet.net  Mon Feb  8 03:30:01 2010
From: mentink at frontiernet.net (Linda Mentink)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:30:01 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Women in the Pulpit
In-Reply-To: <20100207031232.D571110F904@relay02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net
 >
References: <20100207023703.46E521020B@relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
	<20100207031232.D571110F904@relay02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <20100208032816.7791C10F9E8@relay02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

I didn't think of that one. Thanks, Penny.

At 09:14 PM 2/6/2010, you wrote:
>Why, Linda, how about the verse that says: I suffer not a woman to teach.
>That's obviously in the context of the gathered church.  There are 
>good reasons  in scripture why women are not really called to 
>elder-ship or leader-ship positions.
>It has nothing to do with the worth or worthiness of a woman.  Many 
>are far better-equipped than their male counter-parts.  But the 
>Bible, which we believe to be Divinely written and inspired, gives a 
>hierarchy, which, I for one, would not be comfortable to gainsay.
>Let the women keep silence in the church--I'm not quoting it quite 
>rightly. i don't have a Bible program I can consult on the fly.
>
>Some of our women, here, are preparing for ministry or are already 
>in it.  I know we won't all agree on these things.  And normally, I 
>don't say much to this issue, because some folks I really like are 
>involved in positions that I would never aspire to--nor would we see 
>a woman in those positions in our circle.
>
>The headship issue in the home is the same.  But I won't get into 
>that.  I do think there are exceptions regarding what is permissible 
>in the home.  And wise women want to keep their place.  sometimes 
>that can be a tight-rope.
>As I say, I won't get into that one.
>
>Carry on, list. I'll try to be quieter.
>Penny.
>
>At 08:37 PM 2/6/2010, you wrote:
>>In 1 Timothy 3, beginning at the first verse, the Bible states that 
>>Bishops should be the husband of one wife.  In Titus 1:5-6 we read 
>>that elders should be the husband of one wife. Husbands would not be women.
>>
>>Blessings,
>>
>>Linda
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>for Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40frontiernet.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40frontiernet.net
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2672 - Release Date: 
>02/06/10 13:35:00





From norma.crosby at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 04:21:37 2010
From: norma.crosby at gmail.com (Norma Crosby)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:21:37 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Starting Ordination Process in the Episcopal
	Diocese of Massachusetts
In-Reply-To: <bb2a9cd21002071421r2edb3b74j958ec7373ed7f736@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bb2a9cd21002071421r2edb3b74j958ec7373ed7f736@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53a73a441002072021n7ad180b5y99097faedcbccbf9@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ginnie,

I wish you good luck, and I am so happy that the Episcopal Church uses the
talents of women as well as those of men. I am also excited that a blind
woman might be able to become a priest.

I hope you will keep us posted on your progress.

Norma Crosby

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Virginia Walden <vlwalden at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Faith-Talk Members,
>
> I wrote a while back to introduce myself.  My name is Ginnie Walden and I'm
> new to this list.  I am in the preliminary stages of seeking ordination to
> the priesthood in the Episcopal Diocese of Massachusetts.  For those
> familiar with the process in the Episcopal Church--I'm still in
> conversation
> with my Rector.  No lay committee has been formed yet.
>
> Does anyone on this list have experience serving as a parish priest (any
> denomination)?  Does anyone know of a blind clergy person in the Episcopal
> Church who might be willing to be in touch with me?  I'm looking to touch
> base with someone about addressing questions regarding blindness in the
> ordination process.  My Rector is wonderfully supportive so far, but it
> would be great to get in touch with someone who is blind and serving as a
> parish priest.
>
> Thanks,
> Ginnie
> --
> Virginia L. Walden
> vlwalden at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/norma.crosby%40gmail.com
>


From xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  8 14:41:35 2010
From: xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com (Fr. John Sheehan)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:41:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <CA0492DBAE8A4DF2BCF906AA2FBA54CB@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1><660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><C88C7B1E9C9940C7B7A9799E53912B78@hometwxakonvzn><730878.49337.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4383d01d1002050646v244935a7p53529592105e0f96@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA0492DBAE8A4DF2BCF906AA2FBA54CB@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <707673.97456.qm@web110813.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I have a slightly different perspective - I don't think that anyone has a "right" to serve in higher offices in the Church, man or woman. Men who want to become priests are regularly turned down for a variety of reasons. Should women be rejected simply because they are women? I don't think so - but I also do not agree with the notion that it is somehow a "right" to become a priest.
 Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 12:40:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

Then Mabie you should concidder the Episkipal church? Are you on facebook beth? RJ
----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> YOu're right.  Both of you.  But I am a believer in rights for women
> to serve in high roles in churches.  Catholicism is notorious for
> being so patriarchal.
> Beth
> 
> On 2/5/10, Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The decision is at the discretion of the parish priest - and some, for
>> whatever reason, do not like altar girls, whether sighted or not. I don't
>> agree, but there you are. But there is certainly no reason why a blind
>> person - of any sex - could not serve at the altar.
>>  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>> Chairman
>> 
>> 
>> Xavier Society for the Blind
>> 154 East 23rd St
>> New York, NY 10010
>> (212) 473-7800
>> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
>> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
>> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:50:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>> 
>> This young lady wanted to be an altar girl.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr. John Sheehan"
>> <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>> 
>> 
>>> We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
>>> blind lectors all over the U.S.
>>> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>>> Chairman
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Xavier Society for the Blind
>>> 154 East 23rd St
>>> New York, NY 10010
>>> (212) 473-7800
>>> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
>>> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
>>> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>> 
>>> Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include
>>> braille
>>> in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during the
>>> service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
>>> Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his table.
>>> 
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
>>> doing it."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>> 
>>> I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
>>> because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you
>>> respond? RJ
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
>>> spot.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 


_______________________________________________
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Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
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From john at godtouches.org  Mon Feb  8 14:57:55 2010
From: john at godtouches.org (John J. Boyer)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:57:55 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction by
	writerswhoexpresstheirFaithintheirfiction
In-Reply-To: <4b6da769.6244f10a.27bf.68d6SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
References: <4b6da769.6244f10a.27bf.68d6SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20100208145755.GA1702@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>

Please change your subject line. As the original poster of the question 
about writers who express their faith in their fiction I find it most 
disconcerting to open a message with this subject and find that it is 
about something entirely different.

Thanks and prayers,
John

On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 01:40:11PM -0500, mary wurtzel wrote:
> Hi,
> That is the second book with them, RFBANDD.
> I  will need Fred's help with this.
> He just returned from the Washington seminar.  He had 3 young 
> boys who are from our schl district that he was mentoring.  I am 
> really proud of him and our youth coordinator, Melinda Latham who 
> got the grant to take the kids.  She  mentored the girls who 
> went.  They even took an overnight train.
> I guess this is off topic but as far as I am concerned it is how 
> we live out our faith as well as serving the blind kids of our 
> next generation.
> Mary
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org

-- 
John J. Boyer, Executive Director
GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
http://www.godtouches.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Peace, Love, Service




From xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  8 15:06:42 2010
From: xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com (Fr. John Sheehan)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:06:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <53a73a441002051134r2d6e086fxec473dfa8708b187@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com>
	<53a73a441002051134r2d6e086fxec473dfa8708b187@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <893237.86796.qm@web110812.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

One of the great accomplishments of Vatican II was recognizing that the Church is made up of people of very different tastes and gifts and ways of wanting to worship. Many individual parishes offer a range of Mass styles - and if you cannot find one parish that has something you like, there are bound to be others. In the same way, more churches are now offering Masses in different languages - French, Latin, Spanish, Creole, etc. Some like guitar music - some like incense and organs - some like quiet.

It is important to keep in mind the difference between styles of worship - and that includes the personality of the priest and the preaching - and the content, which is the credal content of the faith. I am a Catholic, firmly and committed. Do I agree with each and every policy of the Roman Catholic Church? Nope. If I am ever in a position to help create change, I do. But the basics of my faith do not change according to whether I like the pastor, approve of the music, or disagree with the preaching or the way an individual or even a group of individuals is treated. How some people practice the faith or put it into practice does not change the content of what the faith is.

We are all sinners - we all fail - and I try hard not to put myself in the position of judging (something Jesus warned against a lot). My call is to live the faith as best I can - and to forgive those who fail, as I hope they will forgive me. 
 Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: Norma Crosby <norma.crosby at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 2:34:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

I have been watching this thread for a few days without making comment.
However, I guess I have two to make. Understand that I am just a spiritual
seeker. I hold no position in any church hierarchy, so here goes.

First, I am hearing some people suggest that you find a different church,
and I would agree that if you are uncomfortable in your parish, you should
look for a new church home. That is not a recommendation to leave the
Catholic Church. Rather, it is a suggestion that you search and find a
congregation where you are more comfortable.

Second, I see others have suggested that you leave your current faith
altogether, and I think that sounds radical unless you are truly unhappy
with the church as a whole. I am not a Catholic, although I have an interest
in learning more about Catholicism, but I would point out that you will find
negative aspects of almost any faith you choose. You will find people in
virtually every denomination who are more narrow minded than you would like,
and you probably will run across discrimination on the basis of your
blindness as well. This is a togh decision, and I will be praying for you as
you make.

Best regards,
Norma Crosby


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, RJ.  I'm on Facebook under www.facebook.com/tallygirl.  Check me out.
> Beth
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/norma.crosby%40gmail.com
>
_______________________________________________
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From kk3f at msn.com  Mon Feb  8 16:54:28 2010
From: kk3f at msn.com (pat gormley)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:54:28 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] father John you spoke cecinctly and summarized my
	feelings exactly. Re: Blindness and church
References: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com><53a73a441002051134r2d6e086fxec473dfa8708b187@mail.gmail.com>
	<893237.86796.qm@web110812.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP99BA94F52D09FF31B0992C90510@phx.gbl>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fr. John Sheehan" <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> One of the great accomplishments of Vatican II was recognizing that the 
> Church is made up of people of very different tastes and gifts and ways of 
> wanting to worship. Many individual parishes offer a range of Mass 
> styles - and if you cannot find one parish that has something you like, 
> there are bound to be others. In the same way, more churches are now 
> offering Masses in different languages - French, Latin, Spanish, Creole, 
> etc. Some like guitar music - some like incense and organs - some like 
> quiet.
>
> It is important to keep in mind the difference between styles of worship - 
> and that includes the personality of the priest and the preaching - and 
> the content, which is the credal content of the faith. I am a Catholic, 
> firmly and committed. Do I agree with each and every policy of the Roman 
> Catholic Church? Nope. If I am ever in a position to help create change, I 
> do. But the basics of my faith do not change according to whether I like 
> the pastor, approve of the music, or disagree with the preaching or the 
> way an individual or even a group of individuals is treated. How some 
> people practice the faith or put it into practice does not change the 
> content of what the faith is.
>
> We are all sinners - we all fail - and I try hard not to put myself in the 
> position of judging (something Jesus warned against a lot). My call is to 
> live the faith as best I can - and to forgive those who fail, as I hope 
> they will forgive me.
> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
> Chairman
>
>
> Xavier Society for the Blind
> 154 East 23rd St
> New York, NY 10010
> (212) 473-7800
> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching 
> the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - 
> powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Norma Crosby <norma.crosby at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 2:34:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
> I have been watching this thread for a few days without making comment.
> However, I guess I have two to make. Understand that I am just a spiritual
> seeker. I hold no position in any church hierarchy, so here goes.
>
> First, I am hearing some people suggest that you find a different church,
> and I would agree that if you are uncomfortable in your parish, you should
> look for a new church home. That is not a recommendation to leave the
> Catholic Church. Rather, it is a suggestion that you search and find a
> congregation where you are more comfortable.
>
> Second, I see others have suggested that you leave your current faith
> altogether, and I think that sounds radical unless you are truly unhappy
> with the church as a whole. I am not a Catholic, although I have an 
> interest
> in learning more about Catholicism, but I would point out that you will 
> find
> negative aspects of almost any faith you choose. You will find people in
> virtually every denomination who are more narrow minded than you would 
> like,
> and you probably will run across discrimination on the basis of your
> blindness as well. This is a togh decision, and I will be praying for you 
> as
> you make.
>
> Best regards,
> Norma Crosby
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, RJ.  I'm on Facebook under www.facebook.com/tallygirl.  Check me 
>> out.
>> Beth
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/norma.crosby%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
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> 




From timber_wolf899 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  8 20:23:07 2010
From: timber_wolf899 at yahoo.com (Frank Lordi)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:23:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <893237.86796.qm@web110812.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com>
	<53a73a441002051134r2d6e086fxec473dfa8708b187@mail.gmail.com>
	<893237.86796.qm@web110812.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <211319.39881.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


"How some people practice the faith or put it into practice does not change the content of what the faith is."

This is a great truth that sadly many fail to realize.
Thanks Father.
Frank



----- Original Message ----
From: Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 10:06:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

One of the great accomplishments of Vatican II was recognizing that the Church is made up of people of very different tastes and gifts and ways of wanting to worship. Many individual parishes offer a range of Mass styles - and if you cannot find one parish that has something you like, there are bound to be others. In the same way, more churches are now offering Masses in different languages - French, Latin, Spanish, Creole, etc. Some like guitar music - some like incense and organs - some like quiet.

It is important to keep in mind the difference between styles of worship - and that includes the personality of the priest and the preaching - and the content, which is the credal content of the faith. I am a Catholic, firmly and committed. Do I agree with each and every policy of the Roman Catholic Church? Nope. If I am ever in a position to help create change, I do. But the basics of my faith do not change according to whether I like the pastor, approve of the music, or disagree with the preaching or the way an individual or even a group of individuals is treated. How some people practice the faith or put it into practice does not change the content of what the faith is.

We are all sinners - we all fail - and I try hard not to put myself in the position of judging (something Jesus warned against a lot). My call is to live the faith as best I can - and to forgive those who fail, as I hope they will forgive me. 
Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: Norma Crosby <norma.crosby at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 2:34:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

I have been watching this thread for a few days without making comment.
However, I guess I have two to make. Understand that I am just a spiritual
seeker. I hold no position in any church hierarchy, so here goes.

First, I am hearing some people suggest that you find a different church,
and I would agree that if you are uncomfortable in your parish, you should
look for a new church home. That is not a recommendation to leave the
Catholic Church. Rather, it is a suggestion that you search and find a
congregation where you are more comfortable.

Second, I see others have suggested that you leave your current faith
altogether, and I think that sounds radical unless you are truly unhappy
with the church as a whole. I am not a Catholic, although I have an interest
in learning more about Catholicism, but I would point out that you will find
negative aspects of almost any faith you choose. You will find people in
virtually every denomination who are more narrow minded than you would like,
and you probably will run across discrimination on the basis of your
blindness as well. This is a togh decision, and I will be praying for you as
you make.

Best regards,
Norma Crosby


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, RJ.? I'm on Facebook under www.facebook.com/tallygirl.? Check me out.
> Beth
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/norma.crosby%40gmail.com
>
_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timber_wolf899%40yahoo.com



      



From eric at pmpmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:51:06 2010
From: eric at pmpmail.com (Eric Calhoun)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 04:51:06 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] FW: [B.A.C.M] Quote of the day for Monday February 8th
Message-ID: <20100209105124.A28622AFAD8@node77.smtp.com>



Original Message: 
From: "Christine" <christine_792005 at yahoo.com>
To: bac_m at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [B.A.C.M] Quote of the day for Monday February 8th
Date: 
Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:48:37 -0000

Maybe in the midnight hour thinking? I sit and think? Wondering what the
next day has planed for me Love? I've had my share of it And? I've given my
share of it More? Will I ever get my fill of it? Life? I believe life has
some great plans for me So? I'll step wisely? I'll talk cautiously? I'll
take everything it gives to me? I'll share it? I'll treasure it? I'll
respect it



From eric at pmpmail.com  Wed Feb 10 20:05:17 2010
From: eric at pmpmail.com (Eric Calhoun)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:05:17 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] FW: [URCTCPrayerGroup2] victory over depression by
	Joyce Meyer
Message-ID: <20100210200535.A78FD2B027C@node77.smtp.com>



Original Message: 
From: "Donna" <whitedove57 at att.net>
To: <URCTCPrayerGroup2 at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [URCTCPrayerGroup2] victory over depression by Joyce Meyer
Date: 
Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:40:26 -0500

 
Victory Over Depression 
by Joyce Meyer 

Does your happiness depend on everything in your life being just right?
If you think you can't be happy until all your circumstances are right, you
will never be happy. We all experience times in life when we feel down for
various reasons, but we can't allow our circumstances to control our
emotions. Satan seeks to fill our minds with negative thoughts and emotions
that cause us to feel down. He is a discourager, and he pulls us down
emotionally, spiritually, financially, and in every way he can. But Jesus
is our Encourager, and He came to lift us up. He came to give us
righteousness, peace and joy, and all these things cause us to feel up! 

Everyone experiences times of frustration and distress over unfulfilled
hopes and dreams. When things don't go according to our plans, it is normal
to feel disappointment. But we must be careful how we deal with that
feeling, because disappointment is the beginning stage of depression. If we
remain in a state of disappointment for too long, it can turn into
discouragement, despair, and finally depression. Psalm 30:5 tells us that
...Weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning. Things may
make us feel sad temporarily, but we must not stay sad. Just as we cannot
afford to stay mad very long, neither can we stay sad very long. If we do,
Satan takes advantage of the open door and pushes his way further into our
lives, bringing more serious problems with him. 

DON'T TRUST YOUR THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS 

Our number one enemy is emotions. We tend to be led by how we feel, but
we must realize that feelings are fickle; they change from day to day! We
should be careful not to follow every thought that comes to our mind
because our thoughts and feelings don't dictate truth to us. For many years
of my life, I experienced regular depression. I would awaken many mornings
with a little voice in my head saying, "I feel depressed." I believed this
was my own thought, not realizing that it was Satan making suggestions to
me through my mind. Later, when God drew me into a closer walk with Him and
I began seriously studying His Word, I learned that I didn't have to follow
every feeling and thought that I had. I began to speak aloud and say, "I
will not be depressed." I learned to put on the garment of praise spoken of
in Isaiah 61:3. We may not always feel like praising, but a victorious
person does not have the luxury of living by feelings. 

I've learned that staying disappointed can cause me to start feeling
discouraged, which is a deeper problem than disappointment. But I've also
learned that you can't be hopeful and discouraged at the same time. So as
soon as the devil attacks us with disappointment and we start feeling
discouraged, we need to turn to the Holy Spirit and allow Him to fill us
with hope. A brief period of discouragement may not have a devastating
effect, but long-term discouragement can lead to depression-a very serious
problem. 

RESIST THE DEVIL AND REJOICE IN THE LORD! 

Depression is defined in part as "a hollow; being in a low state; a state
of sadness; dejection." The real cause of depression is not where we are,
but our attitude about where we find ourselves. It is possible to learn to
live on the other side of your feelings. We will always have feelings; they
will never go away, but we can make our feelings line up with our
decisions. That's why God gives us the fruit of self-control. James 4:7
tells us to resist the devil, and we must also resist depression, and
anything that resembles it, because it is of the devil. Philippians 4:4
says, Rejoice in the Lord always [delight, gladden yourselves in Him];
again I say, Rejoice! If we stay filled with the right thing, the wrong
thing has no place. 

If you don't let the devil impress you with what he does, then he can't
oppress you; and if he can't oppress you, then he can't depress you. So
choose to be led by the Holy Spirit and you can have victory over
depression. We can choose to keep a hopeful attitude by renewing our minds
with the promises found in God's Word. We can claim the promises as our own
and stand in faith, believing God to help us overcome our feelings and move
forward into better things. We can't control all of our circumstances, but
we don't have to let what happens today ruin tomorrow. We can actually turn
things around by making a decision to let go of the situations that caused
the disappointment and discouragement, and move toward the good things God
has planned for our future. 

Many people are depressed because they can't face truth, but the Holy
Spirit came to reveal truth to us. We can't get past depression until we
quit making excuses and blaming everyone else. We must face the truth and
take responsibility for our actions. When we do that and ask God to help
us, the spirit of heaviness leaves us and we feel light and free. Jesus
tells us in Matthew 11:30, ...My burden is light and easy to be borne.
Being depressed about circumstances does not change them, and it is a total
waste of time and a thief of joy. So we must stop letting our feelings,
mind, body, and past experiences rule us and allow God to give us a fresh
plan, a new idea, a new goal! You can experience victory over your emotions
by being led, guided, controlled, and ruled by the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus
sent to us as our Comforter, Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate,
Strengthener and Standby to remain with us forever (see John 14:16). Thank
God, we don't have to be disappointed, discouraged, despondent, depressed,
or in despair. Jesus is not only the Way, but He is also the way out! Jesus
is our healer, our glory, and the lifter of our heads. 


Hugs,
Donna
He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the
shadow of the Almighty. Ps 91:1

From marywurtzel at comcast.net  Thu Feb 11 15:08:29 2010
From: marywurtzel at comcast.net (mary wurtzel)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:08:29 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Reccommend books?
Message-ID: <mailman.15.1593447327.15261.faith-talk_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Hello to all,
During Lent I have made it a tradition to read only nonfiction 
books.  I would like to ask people on this list if they have any 
spiritually upbuilding books or authors who teach fresh theology 
or biblical insightt they could reccommend to me? My husband, 
Fred,  is working on whatever needs to be done to sign up to 
download books from RFBANDD.
I have enjoyed our recent discussion about Christian authors.  I 
just finished a book by Harry Kraus.  It is still light reading, 
solving a mystery, but he may be, in my opinion, a cut above some 
Christian authors.
Sincerely,
Mary



From goldpen at frontiernet.net  Thu Feb 11 18:15:49 2010
From: goldpen at frontiernet.net (Penny Golden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:15:49 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Reccommend books?
In-Reply-To: <20100211140718.184CF3FC75@z-mta06.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
References: <20100211140718.184CF3FC75@z-mta06.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <20100211181551.CDB7E5FD8D@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

If anyone is a member of bookShare, he or she might like to read the 
book by Johanna Ruth Dobscheiner called: "Selected to live."
It might be called "Chosen to Live."  i think the book underwent a 
name change at some point. I couldn't put it down; it is the second 
time I have read this wonderful book about a Jewish girl living in Holland.
During her hiding time, she encountered the Bible, almost for the 
first time.  What an amazing story is hers.
Her escape is just remarkable.  One time she had been put in a car 
with older people on their way to one of the death camps.  But when 
the older people heard that she had been in infectious diseases, they 
positively refused to let her ride in their carriage.
We don't want you; get out.  Such was their attitude.  And she 
managed to get off that train bound for death.  Those wise old folks 
saved her life. and it wasn't the first nor the last time.

You will appreciate Christ in a whole new way if you read this book.
At 09:08 AM 2/11/2010, you wrote:
>Hello to all,
>During Lent I have made it a tradition to read only nonfiction 
>books.  I would like to ask people on this list if they have any 
>spiritually upbuilding books or authors who teach fresh theology or 
>biblical insightt they could reccommend to me? My husband, Fred,  is 
>working on whatever needs to be done to sign up to download books from RFBANDD.
>I have enjoyed our recent discussion about Christian authors.  I 
>just finished a book by Harry Kraus.  It is still light reading, 
>solving a mystery, but he may be, in my opinion, a cut above some 
>Christian authors.
>Sincerely,
>Mary
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40frontiernet.net





From lauraeaves at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 11 18:49:27 2010
From: lauraeaves at yahoo.com (qubit)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:49:27 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Fiction bywriterswhoexpresstheirFaithintheirfiction
References: <4b6da769.6244f10a.27bf.68d6SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
	<20100208145755.GA1702@s15261680.onlinehome-server.com>
Message-ID: <0297A3FF09804F3F9EB586DD740F846B@bassclef>

Hi John --
I was just thinking since you don't watch movies (being deaf also), you 
might be interested in the text of the original screen plays for various 
science fiction flicks.    I actually have a number of screen plays in txt 
files, which I downloaded from a friend's site.  Movies include "Close 
Encounters", "The Matrix", and other extremely popular movies.  I haven't 
read all of them.  Some I hear are a little different from the final movie, 
but they do give insight into the author's intent.
If you want me to send some to you, or a list of the files I have to choose 
from, let me know off list.  (There aren't that many, but more then I can 
remember to type here.)
Thanks and happy writing!
My email addy is:
lauraeaves at yahoo.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John J. Boyer" <john at godtouches.org>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fiction 
bywriterswhoexpresstheirFaithintheirfiction


Please change your subject line. As the original poster of the question
about writers who express their faith in their fiction I find it most
disconcerting to open a message with this subject and find that it is
about something entirely different.

Thanks and prayers,
John




From invite+i6gegivz at facebookmail.com  Fri Feb 12 04:04:27 2010
From: invite+i6gegivz at facebookmail.com (Chikodinaka Oguledo)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:04:27 -0800
Subject: [Faith-talk] Take a look at my photos on Facebook
Message-ID: <4bbee261c66065432443778db60576f7@www.facebook.com>

Hi For,

I set up a Facebook Profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile.

Thanks,
Chikodinaka

To join Facebook, please follow the link below:
http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1151012561&k=Z514Y6U5S6TFYDFAYB33P5PQUPJGXYYD&r



Already have an account? Add this email address to your account http://www.facebook.com/n/?merge_accounts.php&e=faith-talk at nfbnet.org&c=79f105d98a73462d55839cb341c8fa8f.faith-talk at nfbnet.org was invited to join Facebook by Chikodinaka Oguledo. If you do not wish to receive this type of email from Facebook in the future, please click on the link below to unsubscribe.
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Facebook's offices are located at 1601 S. California Ave., Palo Alto, CA 94304.



From 63characters at comcast.net  Fri Feb 12 12:44:08 2010
From: 63characters at comcast.net (d)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:44:08 -0800
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com><53a73a441002051134r2d6e086fxec473dfa8708b187@mail.gmail.com><893237.86796.qm@web110812.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<211319.39881.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D798A0091BF64A3FBA47A117C73542E6@d31ecb057fea415>

I am a little worried about "styles of worship."  I think all of us old 
geezers need to be around young people and to respect, if not necessarily 
appreciate, their music and culture, to the degree that it does not conflict 
with Scripture.  Also, the you ng people need to learn to sing the old hymns 
and to understand and respect their elders.  Scripture teaches that the 
older men and women must teach the younger, and how can they do that if they 
never mix?  I don't see anything in Scripture that says that heaven will be 
segregated by age, race, nationality, or anything else?

Debbie Brown

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frank Lordi" <timber_wolf899 at yahoo.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church



"How some people practice the faith or put it into practice does not change 
the content of what the faith is."

This is a great truth that sadly many fail to realize.
Thanks Father.
Frank



----- Original Message ----
From: Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 10:06:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

One of the great accomplishments of Vatican II was recognizing that the 
Church is made up of people of very different tastes and gifts and ways of 
wanting to worship. Many individual parishes offer a range of Mass styles - 
and if you cannot find one parish that has something you like, there are 
bound to be others. In the same way, more churches are now offering Masses 
in different languages - French, Latin, Spanish, Creole, etc. Some like 
guitar music - some like incense and organs - some like quiet.

It is important to keep in mind the difference between styles of worship - 
and that includes the personality of the priest and the preaching - and the 
content, which is the credal content of the faith. I am a Catholic, firmly 
and committed. Do I agree with each and every policy of the Roman Catholic 
Church? Nope. If I am ever in a position to help create change, I do. But 
the basics of my faith do not change according to whether I like the pastor, 
approve of the music, or disagree with the preaching or the way an 
individual or even a group of individuals is treated. How some people 
practice the faith or put it into practice does not change the content of 
what the faith is.

We are all sinners - we all fail - and I try hard not to put myself in the 
position of judging (something Jesus warned against a lot). My call is to 
live the faith as best I can - and to forgive those who fail, as I hope they 
will forgive me.
Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching 
the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - 
powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: Norma Crosby <norma.crosby at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 2:34:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

I have been watching this thread for a few days without making comment.
However, I guess I have two to make. Understand that I am just a spiritual
seeker. I hold no position in any church hierarchy, so here goes.

First, I am hearing some people suggest that you find a different church,
and I would agree that if you are uncomfortable in your parish, you should
look for a new church home. That is not a recommendation to leave the
Catholic Church. Rather, it is a suggestion that you search and find a
congregation where you are more comfortable.

Second, I see others have suggested that you leave your current faith
altogether, and I think that sounds radical unless you are truly unhappy
with the church as a whole. I am not a Catholic, although I have an interest
in learning more about Catholicism, but I would point out that you will find
negative aspects of almost any faith you choose. You will find people in
virtually every denomination who are more narrow minded than you would like,
and you probably will run across discrimination on the basis of your
blindness as well. This is a togh decision, and I will be praying for you as
you make.

Best regards,
Norma Crosby


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, RJ. I'm on Facebook under www.facebook.com/tallygirl. Check me out.
> Beth
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/norma.crosby%40gmail.com
>
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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Faith-talk:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
Faith-talk:
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__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature 
database 4859 (20100211) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com




__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4860 (20100212) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com






From lauraeaves at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 12 13:28:21 2010
From: lauraeaves at yahoo.com (qubit)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:28:21 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com><53a73a441002051134r2d6e086fxec473dfa8708b187@mail.gmail.com><893237.86796.qm@web110812.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><211319.39881.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<D798A0091BF64A3FBA47A117C73542E6@d31ecb057fea415>
Message-ID: <1730D00C45AC44E9A31530A5F18CFCB1@bassclef>

I agree that it would be ashame to segregate old and young in church.  I 
don't know about a variety of churches; I belong to a church that definitely 
does not segregate, and sings old hymns, some of which sound rather draggy 
and depressing, and there is gentle pressure by some to modernize the 
hymnbook. On the other hand, it would be a shame to lose touch with older 
hymns that are classics, as singing the melody and words when you feel down 
can help you in daily life.  There are programs for the youth and popular 
gospel music, some of which I love, but the hymnbook remains rather old.
As for modern music, sometimes certain types of music, such as some heavy 
metal, can sound depressing and wearing, even if the words are uplifting or 
inspiring.  I heard one a while back that sounded like a typical negative 
blast of obscene material, but knewing it was labeled as "Christian music" I 
listened to the words closer and it was about the holy spirit. I didn't 
think the music matched the words.  And since the words were hard to hear, I 
think the music was not really appropriate.
There is a happy medium, isn't there?
--le


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "d" <63characters at comcast.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


I am a little worried about "styles of worship."  I think all of us old
geezers need to be around young people and to respect, if not necessarily
appreciate, their music and culture, to the degree that it does not conflict
with Scripture.  Also, the you ng people need to learn to sing the old hymns
and to understand and respect their elders.  Scripture teaches that the
older men and women must teach the younger, and how can they do that if they
never mix?  I don't see anything in Scripture that says that heaven will be
segregated by age, race, nationality, or anything else?

Debbie Brown

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frank Lordi" <timber_wolf899 at yahoo.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church



"How some people practice the faith or put it into practice does not change
the content of what the faith is."

This is a great truth that sadly many fail to realize.
Thanks Father.
Frank



----- Original Message ----
From: Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 10:06:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

One of the great accomplishments of Vatican II was recognizing that the
Church is made up of people of very different tastes and gifts and ways of
wanting to worship. Many individual parishes offer a range of Mass styles -
and if you cannot find one parish that has something you like, there are
bound to be others. In the same way, more churches are now offering Masses
in different languages - French, Latin, Spanish, Creole, etc. Some like
guitar music - some like incense and organs - some like quiet.

It is important to keep in mind the difference between styles of worship -
and that includes the personality of the priest and the preaching - and the
content, which is the credal content of the faith. I am a Catholic, firmly
and committed. Do I agree with each and every policy of the Roman Catholic
Church? Nope. If I am ever in a position to help create change, I do. But
the basics of my faith do not change according to whether I like the pastor,
approve of the music, or disagree with the preaching or the way an
individual or even a group of individuals is treated. How some people
practice the faith or put it into practice does not change the content of
what the faith is.

We are all sinners - we all fail - and I try hard not to put myself in the
position of judging (something Jesus warned against a lot). My call is to
live the faith as best I can - and to forgive those who fail, as I hope they
will forgive me.
Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: Norma Crosby <norma.crosby at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 2:34:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

I have been watching this thread for a few days without making comment.
However, I guess I have two to make. Understand that I am just a spiritual
seeker. I hold no position in any church hierarchy, so here goes.

First, I am hearing some people suggest that you find a different church,
and I would agree that if you are uncomfortable in your parish, you should
look for a new church home. That is not a recommendation to leave the
Catholic Church. Rather, it is a suggestion that you search and find a
congregation where you are more comfortable.

Second, I see others have suggested that you leave your current faith
altogether, and I think that sounds radical unless you are truly unhappy
with the church as a whole. I am not a Catholic, although I have an interest
in learning more about Catholicism, but I would point out that you will find
negative aspects of almost any faith you choose. You will find people in
virtually every denomination who are more narrow minded than you would like,
and you probably will run across discrimination on the basis of your
blindness as well. This is a togh decision, and I will be praying for you as
you make.

Best regards,
Norma Crosby


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, RJ. I'm on Facebook under www.facebook.com/tallygirl. Check me out.
> Beth
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/norma.crosby%40gmail.com
>
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
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_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
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_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
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__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 4859 (20100211) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com




__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature 
database 4860 (20100212) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com




_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
Faith-talk:
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From mentink at frontiernet.net  Fri Feb 12 21:41:08 2010
From: mentink at frontiernet.net (Linda Mentink)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:41:08 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <D798A0091BF64A3FBA47A117C73542E6@d31ecb057fea415>
References: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com>
	<53a73a441002051134r2d6e086fxec473dfa8708b187@mail.gmail.com>
	<893237.86796.qm@web110812.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<211319.39881.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<D798A0091BF64A3FBA47A117C73542E6@d31ecb057fea415>
Message-ID: <20100212214106.0B84F5FDE4@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

Debbie,

I'm with you totally.  Since moving here to Nebraska to a church 
where only the old hymns and gospel songs are sung, I have so much 
more peach.  In fact, everyone stays in the sanctuary through the 
whole of all our services, which I believe helps the young people to 
be more deeply grounded in the Word, and in their knowledge of their 
Lord, when they finally accept Jesus as their Saviour.

We are only separated by age during our Sunday School time, and there 
is no discussion for us to share our ignorance; we are taught by a 
very godly man.  I'm thrilled to be rid of the inner turmoil over the 
music, and I have been blessed to learn more hymns and gospel songs 
than I ever knew existed! Much of the new music is loud, shallow and 
repetitive.

Now, don't you all email me privately, or email this list to tell me 
that you love the new music. That's your choice, and this is mine! Smile.

Blessings,

Linda

At 06:44 AM 2/12/2010, you wrote:
>I am a little worried about "styles of worship."  I think all of us 
>old geezers need to be around young people and to respect, if not 
>necessarily appreciate, their music and culture, to the degree that 
>it does not conflict with Scripture.  Also, the you ng people need 
>to learn to sing the old hymns and to understand and respect their 
>elders.  Scripture teaches that the older men and women must teach 
>the younger, and how can they do that if they never mix?  I don't 
>see anything in Scripture that says that heaven will be segregated 
>by age, race, nationality, or anything else?
>
>Debbie Brown
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Lordi" <timber_wolf899 at yahoo.com>
>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
><faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:23 PM
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>
>
>"How some people practice the faith or put it into practice does not 
>change the content of what the faith is."
>
>This is a great truth that sadly many fail to realize.
>Thanks Father.
>Frank
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
><faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 10:06:42 AM
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>One of the great accomplishments of Vatican II was recognizing that 
>the Church is made up of people of very different tastes and gifts 
>and ways of wanting to worship. Many individual parishes offer a 
>range of Mass styles - and if you cannot find one parish that has 
>something you like, there are bound to be others. In the same way, 
>more churches are now offering Masses in different languages - 
>French, Latin, Spanish, Creole, etc. Some like guitar music - some 
>like incense and organs - some like quiet.
>
>It is important to keep in mind the difference between styles of 
>worship - and that includes the personality of the priest and the 
>preaching - and the content, which is the credal content of the 
>faith. I am a Catholic, firmly and committed. Do I agree with each 
>and every policy of the Roman Catholic Church? Nope. If I am ever in 
>a position to help create change, I do. But the basics of my faith 
>do not change according to whether I like the pastor, approve of the 
>music, or disagree with the preaching or the way an individual or 
>even a group of individuals is treated. How some people practice the 
>faith or put it into practice does not change the content of what the faith is.
>
>We are all sinners - we all fail - and I try hard not to put myself 
>in the position of judging (something Jesus warned against a lot). 
>My call is to live the faith as best I can - and to forgive those 
>who fail, as I hope they will forgive me.
>Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>Chairman
>
>
>Xavier Society for the Blind
>154 East 23rd St
>New York, NY 10010
>(212) 473-7800
>Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by 
>searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - 
>www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for 
>us! Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Norma Crosby <norma.crosby at gmail.com>
>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
><faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 2:34:09 PM
>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>
>I have been watching this thread for a few days without making comment.
>However, I guess I have two to make. Understand that I am just a spiritual
>seeker. I hold no position in any church hierarchy, so here goes.
>
>First, I am hearing some people suggest that you find a different church,
>and I would agree that if you are uncomfortable in your parish, you should
>look for a new church home. That is not a recommendation to leave the
>Catholic Church. Rather, it is a suggestion that you search and find a
>congregation where you are more comfortable.
>
>Second, I see others have suggested that you leave your current faith
>altogether, and I think that sounds radical unless you are truly unhappy
>with the church as a whole. I am not a Catholic, although I have an interest
>in learning more about Catholicism, but I would point out that you will find
>negative aspects of almost any faith you choose. You will find people in
>virtually every denomination who are more narrow minded than you would like,
>and you probably will run across discrimination on the basis of your
>blindness as well. This is a togh decision, and I will be praying for you as
>you make.
>
>Best regards,
>Norma Crosby
>
>
>On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Yes, RJ. I'm on Facebook under www.facebook.com/tallygirl. Check me out.
>>Beth
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>Faith-talk:
>>
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/norma.crosby%40gmail.com
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timber_wolf899%40yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/63characters%40comcast.net
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4859 (20100211) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4860 (20100212) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40frontiernet.net
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2683 - Release Date: 
>02/12/10 01:35:00





From awheeler at neb.rr.com  Fri Feb 12 23:22:32 2010
From: awheeler at neb.rr.com (Alan)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:22:32 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <20100212214106.0B84F5FDE4@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
References: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com><53a73a441002051134r2d6e086fxec473dfa8708b187@mail.gmail.com><893237.86796.qm@web110812.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><211319.39881.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com><D798A0091BF64A3FBA47A117C73542E6@d31ecb057fea415>
	<20100212214106.0B84F5FDE4@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <8DF4C7D00A794C3F8C1E20C1E3CDA8F3@OwnerPC>

All I am going to say is that I like and respect churches that can do a 
little of both the old and new. I used to attend such a church and even 
played drums for the worship team. The old hymns were done with the utmost 
respect, I might add. That way we reached out to all age groups.

A man who says he has never been scared is either lying or else he's never 
been any place or done anything.
- Louis L'Amour |

Alan Wheeler #8568 on Telespace
Columbus, Nebraska
awheeler at inebraska.com
Msn: outlawcowboy at live.com
wwww.twitter.com/cowboy_alan
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Linda Mentink" <mentink at frontiernet.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Debbie,
>
> I'm with you totally.  Since moving here to Nebraska to a church where 
> only the old hymns and gospel songs are sung, I have so much more peach. 
> In fact, everyone stays in the sanctuary through the whole of all our 
> services, which I believe helps the young people to be more deeply 
> grounded in the Word, and in their knowledge of their Lord, when they 
> finally accept Jesus as their Saviour.
>
> We are only separated by age during our Sunday School time, and there is 
> no discussion for us to share our ignorance; we are taught by a very godly 
> man.  I'm thrilled to be rid of the inner turmoil over the music, and I 
> have been blessed to learn more hymns and gospel songs than I ever knew 
> existed! Much of the new music is loud, shallow and repetitive.
>
> Now, don't you all email me privately, or email this list to tell me that 
> you love the new music. That's your choice, and this is mine! Smile.
>
> Blessings,
>
> Linda
>
> At 06:44 AM 2/12/2010, you wrote:
>>I am a little worried about "styles of worship."  I think all of us old 
>>geezers need to be around young people and to respect, if not necessarily 
>>appreciate, their music and culture, to the degree that it does not 
>>conflict with Scripture.  Also, the you ng people need to learn to sing 
>>the old hymns and to understand and respect their elders.  Scripture 
>>teaches that the older men and women must teach the younger, and how can 
>>they do that if they never mix?  I don't see anything in Scripture that 
>>says that heaven will be segregated by age, race, nationality, or anything 
>>else?
>>
>>Debbie Brown
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Lordi" 
>><timber_wolf899 at yahoo.com>
>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
>><faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:23 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>
>>
>>"How some people practice the faith or put it into practice does not 
>>change the content of what the faith is."
>>
>>This is a great truth that sadly many fail to realize.
>>Thanks Father.
>>Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>From: Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
>>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
>><faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 10:06:42 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>One of the great accomplishments of Vatican II was recognizing that the 
>>Church is made up of people of very different tastes and gifts and ways of 
>>wanting to worship. Many individual parishes offer a range of Mass 
>>styles - and if you cannot find one parish that has something you like, 
>>there are bound to be others. In the same way, more churches are now 
>>offering Masses in different languages - French, Latin, Spanish, Creole, 
>>etc. Some like guitar music - some like incense and organs - some like 
>>quiet.
>>
>>It is important to keep in mind the difference between styles of worship - 
>>and that includes the personality of the priest and the preaching - and 
>>the content, which is the credal content of the faith. I am a Catholic, 
>>firmly and committed. Do I agree with each and every policy of the Roman 
>>Catholic Church? Nope. If I am ever in a position to help create change, I 
>>do. But the basics of my faith do not change according to whether I like 
>>the pastor, approve of the music, or disagree with the preaching or the 
>>way an individual or even a group of individuals is treated. How some 
>>people practice the faith or put it into practice does not change the 
>>content of what the faith is.
>>
>>We are all sinners - we all fail - and I try hard not to put myself in the 
>>position of judging (something Jesus warned against a lot). My call is to 
>>live the faith as best I can - and to forgive those who fail, as I hope 
>>they will forgive me.
>>Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>>Chairman
>>
>>
>>Xavier Society for the Blind
>>154 East 23rd St
>>New York, NY 10010
>>(212) 473-7800
>>Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching 
>>the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - 
>>powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>From: Norma Crosby <norma.crosby at gmail.com>
>>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
>><faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 2:34:09 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>I have been watching this thread for a few days without making comment.
>>However, I guess I have two to make. Understand that I am just a spiritual
>>seeker. I hold no position in any church hierarchy, so here goes.
>>
>>First, I am hearing some people suggest that you find a different church,
>>and I would agree that if you are uncomfortable in your parish, you should
>>look for a new church home. That is not a recommendation to leave the
>>Catholic Church. Rather, it is a suggestion that you search and find a
>>congregation where you are more comfortable.
>>
>>Second, I see others have suggested that you leave your current faith
>>altogether, and I think that sounds radical unless you are truly unhappy
>>with the church as a whole. I am not a Catholic, although I have an 
>>interest
>>in learning more about Catholicism, but I would point out that you will 
>>find
>>negative aspects of almost any faith you choose. You will find people in
>>virtually every denomination who are more narrow minded than you would 
>>like,
>>and you probably will run across discrimination on the basis of your
>>blindness as well. This is a togh decision, and I will be praying for you 
>>as
>>you make.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Norma Crosby
>>
>>
>>On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Yes, RJ. I'm on Facebook under www.facebook.com/tallygirl. Check me out.
>>>Beth
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>Faith-talk:
>>>
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/norma.crosby%40gmail.com
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timber_wolf899%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/63characters%40comcast.net
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>>signature database 4859 (20100211) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>>signature database 4860 (20100212) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40frontiernet.net
>>
>>
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2683 - Release Date: 02/12/10 
>>01:35:00
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
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>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
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> 




From caota at hawaii.rr.com  Fri Feb 12 23:34:46 2010
From: caota at hawaii.rr.com (Charlene Ota)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:34:46 -1000
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <8DF4C7D00A794C3F8C1E20C1E3CDA8F3@OwnerPC>
References: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com><53a73a441002051134r2d6e086fxec473dfa8708b187@mail.gmail.com><893237.86796.qm@web110812.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><211319.39881.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com><D798A0091BF64A3FBA47A117C73542E6@d31ecb057fea415><20100212214106.0B84F5FDE4@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
	<8DF4C7D00A794C3F8C1E20C1E3CDA8F3@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <90343F3A443B405CA67BB86E1A96C09D@Charlene>

I think I kind of like the combination of old and new, too. The old songs
havae such meaningful words and challenge us, but sometimes the newer kind
of things that are a bit repeatative give me a chance to sing and think and
almost use them as a prayer part of worship. Granted, you could say, most of
the "new" songs we sing are things like the old Vineyard songs, they're not
the new ones that have recently come out.Some maybe I'm still old old
instead of new and old!  (grin!)

Charlene 

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Alan
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 1:23 PM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

All I am going to say is that I like and respect churches that can do a
little of both the old and new. I used to attend such a church and even
played drums for the worship team. The old hymns were done with the utmost
respect, I might add. That way we reached out to all age groups.

A man who says he has never been scared is either lying or else he's never
been any place or done anything.
- Louis L'Amour |

Alan Wheeler #8568 on Telespace
Columbus, Nebraska
awheeler at inebraska.com
Msn: outlawcowboy at live.com
wwww.twitter.com/cowboy_alan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda Mentink" <mentink at frontiernet.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


> Debbie,
>
> I'm with you totally.  Since moving here to Nebraska to a church where 
> only the old hymns and gospel songs are sung, I have so much more peach. 
> In fact, everyone stays in the sanctuary through the whole of all our 
> services, which I believe helps the young people to be more deeply 
> grounded in the Word, and in their knowledge of their Lord, when they 
> finally accept Jesus as their Saviour.
>
> We are only separated by age during our Sunday School time, and there is 
> no discussion for us to share our ignorance; we are taught by a very godly

> man.  I'm thrilled to be rid of the inner turmoil over the music, and I 
> have been blessed to learn more hymns and gospel songs than I ever knew 
> existed! Much of the new music is loud, shallow and repetitive.
>
> Now, don't you all email me privately, or email this list to tell me that 
> you love the new music. That's your choice, and this is mine! Smile.
>
> Blessings,
>
> Linda
>
> At 06:44 AM 2/12/2010, you wrote:
>>I am a little worried about "styles of worship."  I think all of us old 
>>geezers need to be around young people and to respect, if not necessarily 
>>appreciate, their music and culture, to the degree that it does not 
>>conflict with Scripture.  Also, the you ng people need to learn to sing 
>>the old hymns and to understand and respect their elders.  Scripture 
>>teaches that the older men and women must teach the younger, and how can 
>>they do that if they never mix?  I don't see anything in Scripture that 
>>says that heaven will be segregated by age, race, nationality, or anything

>>else?
>>
>>Debbie Brown
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Lordi" 
>><timber_wolf899 at yahoo.com>
>>To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
>><faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:23 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>
>>
>>"How some people practice the faith or put it into practice does not 
>>change the content of what the faith is."
>>
>>This is a great truth that sadly many fail to realize.
>>Thanks Father.
>>Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>From: Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
>>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
>><faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 10:06:42 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>One of the great accomplishments of Vatican II was recognizing that the 
>>Church is made up of people of very different tastes and gifts and ways of

>>wanting to worship. Many individual parishes offer a range of Mass 
>>styles - and if you cannot find one parish that has something you like, 
>>there are bound to be others. In the same way, more churches are now 
>>offering Masses in different languages - French, Latin, Spanish, Creole, 
>>etc. Some like guitar music - some like incense and organs - some like 
>>quiet.
>>
>>It is important to keep in mind the difference between styles of worship -

>>and that includes the personality of the priest and the preaching - and 
>>the content, which is the credal content of the faith. I am a Catholic, 
>>firmly and committed. Do I agree with each and every policy of the Roman 
>>Catholic Church? Nope. If I am ever in a position to help create change, I

>>do. But the basics of my faith do not change according to whether I like 
>>the pastor, approve of the music, or disagree with the preaching or the 
>>way an individual or even a group of individuals is treated. How some 
>>people practice the faith or put it into practice does not change the 
>>content of what the faith is.
>>
>>We are all sinners - we all fail - and I try hard not to put myself in the

>>position of judging (something Jesus warned against a lot). My call is to 
>>live the faith as best I can - and to forgive those who fail, as I hope 
>>they will forgive me.
>>Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>>Chairman
>>
>>
>>Xavier Society for the Blind
>>154 East 23rd St
>>New York, NY 10010
>>(212) 473-7800
>>Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching

>>the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - 
>>powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>From: Norma Crosby <norma.crosby at gmail.com>
>>To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
>><faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 2:34:09 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
>>
>>I have been watching this thread for a few days without making comment.
>>However, I guess I have two to make. Understand that I am just a spiritual
>>seeker. I hold no position in any church hierarchy, so here goes.
>>
>>First, I am hearing some people suggest that you find a different church,
>>and I would agree that if you are uncomfortable in your parish, you should
>>look for a new church home. That is not a recommendation to leave the
>>Catholic Church. Rather, it is a suggestion that you search and find a
>>congregation where you are more comfortable.
>>
>>Second, I see others have suggested that you leave your current faith
>>altogether, and I think that sounds radical unless you are truly unhappy
>>with the church as a whole. I am not a Catholic, although I have an 
>>interest
>>in learning more about Catholicism, but I would point out that you will 
>>find
>>negative aspects of almost any faith you choose. You will find people in
>>virtually every denomination who are more narrow minded than you would 
>>like,
>>and you probably will run across discrimination on the basis of your
>>blindness as well. This is a togh decision, and I will be praying for you 
>>as
>>you make.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Norma Crosby
>>
>>
>>On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Yes, RJ. I'm on Facebook under www.facebook.com/tallygirl. Check me out.
>>>Beth
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>Faith-talk:
>>>
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/norma.crosby%
40gmail.com
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyf
ortheblind%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timber_wolf899
%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/63characters%4
0comcast.net
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>>signature database 4859 (20100211) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>>signature database 4860 (20100212) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40fron
tiernet.net
>>
>>
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2683 - Release Date: 02/12/10 
>>01:35:00
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/awheeler%40neb.r
r.com
>
> __________ NOD32 4862 (20100212) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 


_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From djasister at windstream.net  Sat Feb 13 19:21:15 2010
From: djasister at windstream.net (devona able)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:21:15 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
References: <4b6c6a29.1708c00a.798c.3b86@mx.google.com><53a73a441002051134r2d6e086fxec473dfa8708b187@mail.gmail.com><893237.86796.qm@web110812.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><211319.39881.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<D798A0091BF64A3FBA47A117C73542E6@d31ecb057fea415>
Message-ID: <FFCF920EED8E4FEEBF67E41ABE5FCA5B@DGQ81V31>

Amen!

Can I ask a favor?

I need off the list my pc is crashing.

Devona
djasister at windstream.net 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: d 
  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion 
  Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church


  I am a little worried about "styles of worship."  I think all of us old 
  geezers need to be around young people and to respect, if not necessarily 
  appreciate, their music and culture, to the degree that it does not conflict 
  with Scripture.  Also, the you ng people need to learn to sing the old hymns 
  and to understand and respect their elders.  Scripture teaches that the 
  older men and women must teach the younger, and how can they do that if they 
  never mix?  I don't see anything in Scripture that says that heaven will be 
  segregated by age, race, nationality, or anything else?

  Debbie Brown

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Frank Lordi" <timber_wolf899 at yahoo.com>
  To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
  <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church



  "How some people practice the faith or put it into practice does not change 
  the content of what the faith is."

  This is a great truth that sadly many fail to realize.
  Thanks Father.
  Frank



  ----- Original Message ----
  From: Fr. John Sheehan <xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com>
  To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
  <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 10:06:42 AM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

  One of the great accomplishments of Vatican II was recognizing that the 
  Church is made up of people of very different tastes and gifts and ways of 
  wanting to worship. Many individual parishes offer a range of Mass styles - 
  and if you cannot find one parish that has something you like, there are 
  bound to be others. In the same way, more churches are now offering Masses 
  in different languages - French, Latin, Spanish, Creole, etc. Some like 
  guitar music - some like incense and organs - some like quiet.

  It is important to keep in mind the difference between styles of worship - 
  and that includes the personality of the priest and the preaching - and the 
  content, which is the credal content of the faith. I am a Catholic, firmly 
  and committed. Do I agree with each and every policy of the Roman Catholic 
  Church? Nope. If I am ever in a position to help create change, I do. But 
  the basics of my faith do not change according to whether I like the pastor, 
  approve of the music, or disagree with the preaching or the way an 
  individual or even a group of individuals is treated. How some people 
  practice the faith or put it into practice does not change the content of 
  what the faith is.

  We are all sinners - we all fail - and I try hard not to put myself in the 
  position of judging (something Jesus warned against a lot). My call is to 
  live the faith as best I can - and to forgive those who fail, as I hope they 
  will forgive me.
  Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
  Chairman


  Xavier Society for the Blind
  154 East 23rd St
  New York, NY 10010
  (212) 473-7800
  Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching 
  the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - 
  powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




  ________________________________
  From: Norma Crosby <norma.crosby at gmail.com>
  To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" 
  <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 2:34:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

  I have been watching this thread for a few days without making comment.
  However, I guess I have two to make. Understand that I am just a spiritual
  seeker. I hold no position in any church hierarchy, so here goes.

  First, I am hearing some people suggest that you find a different church,
  and I would agree that if you are uncomfortable in your parish, you should
  look for a new church home. That is not a recommendation to leave the
  Catholic Church. Rather, it is a suggestion that you search and find a
  congregation where you are more comfortable.

  Second, I see others have suggested that you leave your current faith
  altogether, and I think that sounds radical unless you are truly unhappy
  with the church as a whole. I am not a Catholic, although I have an interest
  in learning more about Catholicism, but I would point out that you will find
  negative aspects of almost any faith you choose. You will find people in
  virtually every denomination who are more narrow minded than you would like,
  and you probably will run across discrimination on the basis of your
  blindness as well. This is a togh decision, and I will be praying for you as
  you make.

  Best regards,
  Norma Crosby


  On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:

  > Yes, RJ. I'm on Facebook under www.facebook.com/tallygirl. Check me out.
  > Beth
  >
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Faith-talk mailing list
  > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  > Faith-talk:
  >
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/norma.crosby%40gmail.com
  >
  _______________________________________________
  Faith-talk mailing list
  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
  Faith-talk:
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com




  _______________________________________________
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  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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  _______________________________________________
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  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
  Faith-talk:
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  __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature 
  database 4859 (20100211) __________

  The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

  http://www.eset.com




  __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4860 (20100212) __________

  The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

  http://www.eset.com




  _______________________________________________
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From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 14 07:59:02 2010
From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:59:02 -0800
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <COL107-DS18D13A8865E017F0A6A403B54B0@phx.gbl>

How do you get the mass readings in Braille?
Thanks
Jacob Struiksma
 

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Fr. John Sheehan
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:52 AM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
blind lectors all over the U.S. 
 Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include braille
in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during the
service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his table.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn


-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you
respond? RJ _______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
spot.org


_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfor
theblind%40yahoo.com



      
_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40ho
tmail.com




From vlwalden at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 07:00:17 2010
From: vlwalden at gmail.com (Virginia Walden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 02:00:17 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] substitute for a stylus
Message-ID: <bb2a9cd21002142300m69511237qb811068d79b35877@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Faith-Talk members,

I am new to braille and have been practicing writing with the slate and
stylus for a bit.  I did a really silly thing by not purchasing several
styluses--I mean who owns just one pen?  Anyway, I lost my stylus.  Does
anyone have suggestions regarding common household objects that could be
used as a stylus in a pinch?  I'm hoping to continue practicing while I wait
for my new NFB styluses to arrive!

I'm sorry this is off topic; members of this listserv are the only other
blind people I know!

Thanks,
Ginnie

-- 
Virginia L. Walden
vlwalden at gmail.com


From goldpen at frontiernet.net  Mon Feb 15 11:24:42 2010
From: goldpen at frontiernet.net (Penny Golden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 05:24:42 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] substitute for a stylus
In-Reply-To: <bb2a9cd21002142300m69511237qb811068d79b35877@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <bb2a9cd21002142300m69511237qb811068d79b35877@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100215112636.1A24A18E2B8@relay04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

Well, there's just no substitute for a stylus.
Are you in the u.s.?  If you can't get a stylus fast,  really, 
nothing fits the hand too well.
You might try one of those cheap bic-type pens which have a long 
point coming out.
Oh, dear, the only thing you really want is a stylus.
If you'd write me offlist, I could send you one.

Goldpen at frontiernet.net.
I could send you one even today, though it's president's day.
it would go out tomorrow.  Don't put your address on to the list, though. Okay?
I like your kind of dedication to braille.  It is the kind we 
youngsters had to feel, even if we didn't want to.
(Siles.)
Best,
Penny (golden)
I'm in nebraska.


At 01:00 AM 2/15/2010, you wrote:
>Dear Faith-Talk members,
>
>I am new to braille and have been practicing writing with the slate and
>stylus for a bit.  I did a really silly thing by not purchasing several
>styluses--I mean who owns just one pen?  Anyway, I lost my stylus.  Does
>anyone have suggestions regarding common household objects that could be
>used as a stylus in a pinch?  I'm hoping to continue practicing while I wait
>for my new NFB styluses to arrive!
>
>I'm sorry this is off topic; members of this listserv are the only other
>blind people I know!
>
>Thanks,
>Ginnie
>
>--
>Virginia L. Walden
>vlwalden at gmail.com
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/goldpen%40frontiernet.net





From poetlori8 at msn.com  Mon Feb 15 15:03:34 2010
From: poetlori8 at msn.com (Barbara Hammel)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:03:34 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] substitute for a stylus
In-Reply-To: <bb2a9cd21002142300m69511237qb811068d79b35877@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bb2a9cd21002142300m69511237qb811068d79b35877@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY113-DS9FC7481E32EED3F0E99CFEB4A0@phx.gbl>

It makes really sharp dots, but when I was a kid we took a nail and wrapped 
it with a gob of tape.  It was a heavier tape like electrical tape (duct 
tape may work.)  You could put a ball of it at the end you hang onto to make 
it more comfortable under the finger for gripping.
Barbara

A Congress that will always do its work in the dark must have something to 
hide.  The people have spoken, yet they do not listen.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Virginia Walden" <vlwalden at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 1:00 AM
To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Faith-talk] substitute for a stylus

> Dear Faith-Talk members,
>
> I am new to braille and have been practicing writing with the slate and
> stylus for a bit.  I did a really silly thing by not purchasing several
> styluses--I mean who owns just one pen?  Anyway, I lost my stylus.  Does
> anyone have suggestions regarding common household objects that could be
> used as a stylus in a pinch?  I'm hoping to continue practicing while I 
> wait
> for my new NFB styluses to arrive!
>
> I'm sorry this is off topic; members of this listserv are the only other
> blind people I know!
>
> Thanks,
> Ginnie
>
> -- 
> Virginia L. Walden
> vlwalden at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
> 



From djasister at windstream.net  Mon Feb 15 16:53:48 2010
From: djasister at windstream.net (devona able)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:53:48 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] substitute for a stylus
References: <bb2a9cd21002142300m69511237qb811068d79b35877@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY113-DS9FC7481E32EED3F0E99CFEB4A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <F80C0222080C43A88F62F85075567D4E@DGQ81V31>

Can someone unsubscribe me from all my list's please?

My computer is crashing.

Devona
djasister at windstream.net 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Barbara Hammel 
  To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion 
  Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 9:03 AM
  Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] substitute for a stylus


  It makes really sharp dots, but when I was a kid we took a nail and wrapped 
  it with a gob of tape.  It was a heavier tape like electrical tape (duct 
  tape may work.)  You could put a ball of it at the end you hang onto to make 
  it more comfortable under the finger for gripping.
  Barbara

  A Congress that will always do its work in the dark must have something to 
  hide.  The people have spoken, yet they do not listen.

  --------------------------------------------------
  From: "Virginia Walden" <vlwalden at gmail.com>
  Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 1:00 AM
  To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
  Subject: [Faith-talk] substitute for a stylus

  > Dear Faith-Talk members,
  >
  > I am new to braille and have been practicing writing with the slate and
  > stylus for a bit.  I did a really silly thing by not purchasing several
  > styluses--I mean who owns just one pen?  Anyway, I lost my stylus.  Does
  > anyone have suggestions regarding common household objects that could be
  > used as a stylus in a pinch?  I'm hoping to continue practicing while I 
  > wait
  > for my new NFB styluses to arrive!
  >
  > I'm sorry this is off topic; members of this listserv are the only other
  > blind people I know!
  >
  > Thanks,
  > Ginnie
  >
  > -- 
  > Virginia L. Walden
  > vlwalden at gmail.com
  > _______________________________________________
  > Faith-talk mailing list
  > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
  > Faith-talk:
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
  > 

  _______________________________________________
  Faith-talk mailing list
  Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net


From rpoire at comcast.net  Mon Feb 15 17:42:15 2010
From: rpoire at comcast.net (Ron Poire)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:42:15 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] substitute for a stylus
References: <bb2a9cd21002142300m69511237qb811068d79b35877@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002401caae66$37422760$a4b4484b@cla.umn.edu>

You might try using a blunted nail, or a common pin.
The nail would work better.  The pin would make really small dots.  Most 
likely, when your new stylus arrives, you will find the old one.

Not knowing what you have around the house, for putting over the nail head, 
I wouldn't know what to suggest.
Ron
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Virginia Walden" <vlwalden at gmail.com>
To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 1:00 AM
Subject: [Faith-talk] substitute for a stylus


> Dear Faith-Talk members,
>
> I am new to braille and have been practicing writing with the slate and
> stylus for a bit.  I did a really silly thing by not purchasing several
> styluses--I mean who owns just one pen?  Anyway, I lost my stylus.  Does
> anyone have suggestions regarding common household objects that could be
> used as a stylus in a pinch?  I'm hoping to continue practicing while I 
> wait
> for my new NFB styluses to arrive!
>
> I'm sorry this is off topic; members of this listserv are the only other
> blind people I know!
>
> Thanks,
> Ginnie
>
> -- 
> Virginia L. Walden
> vlwalden at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/rpoire%40comcast.net 




From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Feb 15 19:34:48 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:34:48 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] substitute for a stylus
In-Reply-To: <F80C0222080C43A88F62F85075567D4E@DGQ81V31>
References: <bb2a9cd21002142300m69511237qb811068d79b35877@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY113-DS9FC7481E32EED3F0E99CFEB4A0@phx.gbl>
	<F80C0222080C43A88F62F85075567D4E@DGQ81V31>
Message-ID: <auto-000139809397@mailfront1.g2host.com>

You will have to tell me what lists you are on?  I don't have an easy 
way to look it up.

There is also a personalized link at the bottom of each list message, 
from which you can unsubscribe from that, or all lists.

Dave

At 10:53 AM 2/15/2010, devona able wrote:
>Can someone unsubscribe me from all my list's please?
>
>My computer is crashing.
>
>Devona
>djasister at windstream.net
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Barbara Hammel
>   To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>   Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 9:03 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] substitute for a stylus
>
>
>   It makes really sharp dots, but when I was a kid we took a nail 
> and wrapped
>   it with a gob of tape.  It was a heavier tape like electrical tape (duct
>   tape may work.)  You could put a ball of it at the end you hang 
> onto to make
>   it more comfortable under the finger for gripping.
>   Barbara
>
>   A Congress that will always do its work in the dark must have something to
>   hide.  The people have spoken, yet they do not listen.
>
>   --------------------------------------------------
>   From: "Virginia Walden" <vlwalden at gmail.com>
>   Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 1:00 AM
>   To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>   Subject: [Faith-talk] substitute for a stylus
>
>   > Dear Faith-Talk members,
>   >
>   > I am new to braille and have been practicing writing with the slate and
>   > stylus for a bit.  I did a really silly thing by not purchasing several
>   > styluses--I mean who owns just one pen?  Anyway, I lost my stylus.  Does
>   > anyone have suggestions regarding common household objects that could be
>   > used as a stylus in a pinch?  I'm hoping to continue practicing while I
>   > wait
>   > for my new NFB styluses to arrive!
>   >
>   > I'm sorry this is off topic; members of this listserv are the only other
>   > blind people I know!
>   >
>   > Thanks,
>   > Ginnie
>   >
>   > --
>   > Virginia L. Walden
>   > vlwalden at gmail.com
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > Faith-talk mailing list
>   > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>   > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>   > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>   > Faith-talk:
>   > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
>   >
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Faith-talk mailing list
>   Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>   http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for Faith-talk:
> 
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/djasister%40windstream.net
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4869 (20100215) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com




From lison1273 at live.com  Wed Feb 17 16:18:39 2010
From: lison1273 at live.com (Lisa Ison)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:18:39 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] test
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP64C1C1ACEF1CCF26B202AED3480@phx.gbl>

I am just making sure that all of my messages are coming through loud and
clear.


From xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 18:37:04 2010
From: xaviersocietyfortheblind at yahoo.com (Fr. John Sheehan)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:37:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church
In-Reply-To: <COL107-DS18D13A8865E017F0A6A403B54B0@phx.gbl>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<COL107-DS18D13A8865E017F0A6A403B54B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <346631.48665.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

To become a client you need to document your blindness or disability - call us at (212) 473-7800 and ask to speak to Gina or Margie. They can walk you through the registration. All our services are free - periodicals, library, Mass propers - they can take care of you.
 Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: Jacob Struiksma <lawnmower84 at hotmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sun, February 14, 2010 2:59:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

How do you get the mass readings in Braille?
Thanks
Jacob Struiksma


-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Fr. John Sheehan
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:52 AM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

We provide the Mass Readings in Braille and large-print, and we know of
blind lectors all over the U.S. 
Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman


Xavier Society for the Blind
154 East 23rd St
New York, NY 10010
(212) 473-7800
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching
the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.




________________________________
From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion"
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 9:02:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

Never never never. Just the opposite they are asking how to include braille
in my church and have asked me to sing in the choir and to read during the
service as well. If your church is of that position and belief, tell them
Christ would be disappointed, all who are hungry are welcome at his table.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn


-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:56 AM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: [Faith-talk] Blindness and church

I personally haven't had this problem, but, Have any of you been told
because of blindness, you couldn't serve in the church? If so, How did you
respond? RJ _______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
spot.org


_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfor
theblind%40yahoo.com



      
_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40ho
tmail.com


_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/xaviersocietyfortheblind%40yahoo.com



      

From morningglow at verizon.net  Wed Feb 17 20:29:21 2010
From: morningglow at verizon.net (Moria)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:29:21 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] test
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP64C1C1ACEF1CCF26B202AED3480@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0KY000BDQ69E2D92@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>

Got it!

Masha
 

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Lisa Ison
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:19 AM
To: seeingeye-l at list.web.net
Cc: buddy-l at yahoogroups.com; vi-clicker-trainers at freelists.org; '~ A 12 Step
Anonymous List For Compulsive Eaters ~'; nagdu at nfbnet.org;
faith-talk at nfbnet.org; electronics-talk at nfbnet.org;
common-lounge at googlegroups.com; guidedog-friends at yahoogroups.com;
the-dog-park at yahoogroups.com; recoverymail at YAHOO.COM;
GDUI-Friends at yahoogroups.com; overeaters_anonymous at yahoogroups.com;
guidedog-circle at yahoogroups.com; EXERCISE at LISTS.THERECOVERYGROUP.ORG;
click-to-guide at googlegroups.com
Subject: [Faith-talk] test

I am just making sure that all of my messages are coming through loud and
clear.
_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/morningglow%40ve
rizon.net




From vlwalden at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 21:38:12 2010
From: vlwalden at gmail.com (Virginia Walden)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:38:12 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Thanks for the stylus tips!
Message-ID: <bb2a9cd21002171338r28ec6520nf85c228dcc3e5715@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to all who wrote concerning styluses--I found mine today.  Turns out
I dropped it in the vesting room of my church the last time I served as a
lay Eucharistic Minister!

Blessings,
Ginnie


From nt100t1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 22:08:03 2010
From: nt100t1 at gmail.com (Nathan Tobin)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:08:03 -0800
Subject: [Faith-talk] Why don't they make Wicca religious books in braille?
Message-ID: <d9b81dd91002171408t2ef04b10g57e8bfb8b278211c@mail.gmail.com>

-- 
Nathan Tobin. Gamer Extraordinary
Hi yall, i was wondering why there are no Wicca religion books in
braille? If they had some i would certainly read them. After all, i am
interested in the religion. If you give the same crackpot answer that
the WTBBL in Seattle gave me, I will give you my oppinion on the
matter.
Thanks.
Nathan



From morningglow at verizon.net  Wed Feb 17 22:18:10 2010
From: morningglow at verizon.net (Moria)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:18:10 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Why don't they make Wicca religious books in
	braille?
In-Reply-To: <d9b81dd91002171408t2ef04b10g57e8bfb8b278211c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0KY00038JBBTZ7U5@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net>

What crackpot answer was that?

Masha
 

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Nathan Tobin
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:08 PM
To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Faith-talk] Why don't they make Wicca religious books in braille?

--
Nathan Tobin. Gamer Extraordinary
Hi yall, i was wondering why there are no Wicca religion books in braille?
If they had some i would certainly read them. After all, i am interested in
the religion. If you give the same crackpot answer that the WTBBL in Seattle
gave me, I will give you my oppinion on the matter.
Thanks.
Nathan

_______________________________________________
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Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/morningglow%40ve
rizon.net




From kk3f at msn.com  Wed Feb 17 22:23:48 2010
From: kk3f at msn.com (pat gormley)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:23:48 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Why don't they make Wicca religious books
	inbraille?
References: <0KY00038JBBTZ7U5@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP74D28856175F879DA0C3E490480@phx.gbl>

The reason why is that alot of their representation are so graphical that 
they would take a lot of paper to produce and a lot of the graphics aren't 
properly labeled either and the text associated with the graphics aren't 
very clear either.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Moria" <morningglow at verizon.net>
To: "'Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion'" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Why don't they make Wicca religious books 
inbraille?


> What crackpot answer was that?
>
> Masha
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Nathan Tobin
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:08 PM
> To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Why don't they make Wicca religious books in 
> braille?
>
> --
> Nathan Tobin. Gamer Extraordinary
> Hi yall, i was wondering why there are no Wicca religion books in braille?
> If they had some i would certainly read them. After all, i am interested 
> in
> the religion. If you give the same crackpot answer that the WTBBL in 
> Seattle
> gave me, I will give you my oppinion on the matter.
> Thanks.
> Nathan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/morningglow%40ve
> rizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
> 




From george.mcdermith at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 22:34:54 2010
From: george.mcdermith at gmail.com (George McDermith)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:34:54 -0700
Subject: [Faith-talk] Carrying paper for your slate
In-Reply-To: <346631.48665.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn><55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<COL107-DS18D13A8865E017F0A6A403B54B0@phx.gbl>
	<346631.48665.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b7c6f19.1602be0a.60e7.351b@mx.google.com>

	Greetings,

	Being a former student of Tom Anderson I of course love my slate and
use it regularly at home; however, I am frustrated frequently at my
inability to carry Braille paper for a proper four line slate. Any
suggestions for transporting proper paper t go along with your slate and
stylus, or am I stuck with the 3x5 slate? Thanks.




From nt100t1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 23:05:10 2010
From: nt100t1 at gmail.com (Nathan Tobin)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:05:10 -0800
Subject: [Faith-talk] Why don't they make Wicca religious books
	inbraille?
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP74D28856175F879DA0C3E490480@phx.gbl>
References: <0KY00038JBBTZ7U5@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net>
	<BLU0-SMTP74D28856175F879DA0C3E490480@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <d9b81dd91002171505l71783aefkc2204041064efc94@mail.gmail.com>

Pat, that is the answer that the WTBBL gave me. and i've seen at least
1 book on the subject that had no pictures whatsoever. that book was
Wicca Spell a day. Now that i think of it, there's another one that i
know of, Wicca Spellcraft for men.

On 2/17/10, pat gormley <kk3f at msn.com> wrote:
> The reason why is that alot of their representation are so graphical that
> they would take a lot of paper to produce and a lot of the graphics aren't
> properly labeled either and the text associated with the graphics aren't
> very clear either.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Moria" <morningglow at verizon.net>
> To: "'Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion'"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Why don't they make Wicca religious books
> inbraille?
>
>
>> What crackpot answer was that?
>>
>> Masha
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Nathan Tobin
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:08 PM
>> To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Why don't they make Wicca religious books in
>> braille?
>>
>> --
>> Nathan Tobin. Gamer Extraordinary
>> Hi yall, i was wondering why there are no Wicca religion books in braille?
>> If they had some i would certainly read them. After all, i am interested
>> in
>> the religion. If you give the same crackpot answer that the WTBBL in
>> Seattle
>> gave me, I will give you my oppinion on the matter.
>> Thanks.
>> Nathan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/morningglow%40ve
>> rizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nt100t1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nathan Tobin. Gamer Extraordinary



From mentink at frontiernet.net  Wed Feb 17 23:12:44 2010
From: mentink at frontiernet.net (Linda Mentink)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:12:44 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Carrying paper for your slate
In-Reply-To: <4b7c6f19.1602be0a.60e7.351b@mx.google.com>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<COL107-DS18D13A8865E017F0A6A403B54B0@phx.gbl>
	<346631.48665.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4b7c6f19.1602be0a.60e7.351b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20100217231033.1717610FA79@relay02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

Carry it in a notebook or clasp envelope.
At 04:34 PM 2/17/2010, you wrote:
>         Greetings,
>
>         Being a former student of Tom Anderson I of course love my slate and
>use it regularly at home; however, I am frustrated frequently at my
>inability to carry Braille paper for a proper four line slate. Any
>suggestions for transporting proper paper t go along with your slate and
>stylus, or am I stuck with the 3x5 slate? Thanks.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40frontiernet.net
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2693 - Release Date: 
>02/17/10 01:35:00





From nt100t1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 23:16:50 2010
From: nt100t1 at gmail.com (Nathan Tobin)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:16:50 -0800
Subject: [Faith-talk] Carrying paper for your slate
In-Reply-To: <4b7c6f19.1602be0a.60e7.351b@mx.google.com>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>
	<55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>
	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<COL107-DS18D13A8865E017F0A6A403B54B0@phx.gbl>
	<346631.48665.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4b7c6f19.1602be0a.60e7.351b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <d9b81dd91002171516h731a165ahd70f620b6bb5379d@mail.gmail.com>

Hey George,
George,
The way to carry paper for a 4-line slate is to put it in a binder and
then put the binder into a backpack.



From george.mcdermith at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 23:29:06 2010
From: george.mcdermith at gmail.com (George McDermith)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:29:06 -0700
Subject: [Faith-talk] Carrying paper for your slate
In-Reply-To: <d9b81dd91002171516h731a165ahd70f620b6bb5379d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <23C59C3BE5344CC19C56B4A053FE53EB@hometwxakonvzn>	<55BC6C715759447A9E17DF6034B2799B@JkTC4D1>	<660111.60771.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<COL107-DS18D13A8865E017F0A6A403B54B0@phx.gbl>	<346631.48665.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<4b7c6f19.1602be0a.60e7.351b@mx.google.com>
	<d9b81dd91002171516h731a165ahd70f620b6bb5379d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b7c7bcd.1602be0a.6542.5254@mx.google.com>

	Ah, figured as much. I was hoping for some manner of carrying a
piece or two in one's pockets, but alas I believe the backpack is probably
the best manner. Thanks for the information

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Nathan Tobin
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 4:17 PM
To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Carrying paper for your slate

Hey George,
George,
The way to carry paper for a 4-line slate is to put it in a binder and
then put the binder into a backpack.

_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/george.mcdermith
%40gmail.com




From rpoire at comcast.net  Thu Feb 18 00:06:54 2010
From: rpoire at comcast.net (Ron Poire)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:06:54 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Thanks for the stylus tips!
References: <bb2a9cd21002171338r28ec6520nf85c228dcc3e5715@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <011901cab02e$480b8860$a4b4484b@cla.umn.edu>

Great!--Glad you found it.

Ron


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Virginia Walden" <vlwalden at gmail.com>
To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:38 PM
Subject: [Faith-talk] Thanks for the stylus tips!


> Thanks to all who wrote concerning styluses--I found mine today.  Turns 
> out
> I dropped it in the vesting room of my church the last time I served as a
> lay Eucharistic Minister!
>
> Blessings,
> Ginnie
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/rpoire%40comcast.net 




From bethkats at samobile.net  Thu Feb 18 02:51:55 2010
From: bethkats at samobile.net (Beth Kats)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:51:55 -0800
Subject: [Faith-talk] Christianity
Message-ID: <20100217185155.x@y>

The last year of high school was turning out to be a boring bitch.  That
was, until yesterday when my folks, both teachers announced that they
would be attending a conference.

"Uncle Mike says you can stay with him for the week we are away.  He is
even closer to the school, so you can walk there."

My Uncle Mike is my mother's younger brother.  He developed some
stupid software that has to do with pole taking.  He was bought out by one
of the big polling companies for five million bucks.  He now is retired at
the age of twenty-one and is he enjoying it.  He has two houses; one in
the big city, a high-rise condo, the other one is his old house near us.  He
has been a big brother to me since I was born.  I learned how to throw a
fastball from him, how to attract girls later.  He's cool and fun.

They left on a Friday and I came home from school directly to his house.
My 'rents had cleverly left a suitcase with clothes for me.  Little did I
know what little use I would have for them?  (Hah, got you interested huh?
You fucking pervs want to see a naked 18 year old.)

I rang the doorbell, Jack Russell, Mike's dog barked like a crazy nut.  Then
he smelled me through the door and shut up.  He was amazing the way he
knew who was his enemy and who was a friend.  Incidentally, Jack was a
Jack Russell Terrier and Mike with no imagination named him Jack.  "So
he won't get confused," Mike explained.

Mike opened the door.  He was wearing his under shorts.  His muscled
bare chest was dripping with sweat.

"Stop staring at my chest, you fruit cake," said Mike, holding Jack's collar
to keep him from escaping the house.  "He's got a girl friend on the next
block, a miserable flea trap, but he likes them low down."

"How old is Jack?"

"Same age as me."

"What?"

"In door years, he's twenty years old."

We preceding into the house.  "How about a work out with me?"

"I'm a little tired from school all day.  I don't know."

"Oh poor baby.  Only your ass is tired from sitting.  Strip and meet me in
the gym."

Jack followed me into my room.  I think he thought I might have some gin
in my suitcase.  He loves gin and orange juice.  Besides that, his main
food is hamburger and onions.

I realized that I had no proper gym clothes, or even trainers.  So I just
wore my briefs and bare feet.  When Mike saw me come into the workout
area he shouted, "Oh to be eighteen again.  What skin, what a bulge in
your briefs.  I think you inherited the economy size family prick.  Oh stop
blushing.  That's a good thing."

I began doing arm lifts, Mike got on the treadmill.  The place began to
smell of man sweat and it was getting to me.  "Hey Oliver (he calls me any
of twenty different names, changing every minute.) I think you are getting
a woody.  Please show some respect for Jack."

We continued working out for one hour.  I gave in first.  "Hey Unk, I'm
hungry.  You got any of Jack's hamburger left?"

"He doesn't have that anymore, at least not right now.  He decided he'd
too fat and he went on a diet."

"You're kidding.  Did he tell you that?"

"No, he just refused his hamburger and onions and started eating my plate
of vegetables.  He's also into salad."

"What a character."

"Anyway, I've got some great steaks for you Chadwick."

He really did have them.  They were at least a pound and a half of porter
house.  He made a big salad and a smaller one for Jack who smacked his
lips in appreciation.  There were beers on the table.  Mike said nothing, he
didn't want to seem to be offering them to me, but the hint was there and I
finished three during dinner.  I helped clean up which was quick and easy,
then I told Mike that I was bushed and wanted to go up for a quick snooze.

I fell asleep in the guest room for about a half hour.  I was awakened by
Jack jumping up on the bed and staring at me.  Uncle Mike came in.  "I see
you're awake.  He does that to me too stares me into wakefulness."

Mike sat on the bed.  "Tell me Alphonse, have you been laid yet?"

Wow, that came out of nowhere, but I am very comfortable talking private
things with Uncle Mike.  Hd was the one who told me the big secret of
how babies were conceived, when I was ten years old.

"No, I'm a virgin."

"No blow jobs?"

"No, and that's enough questions."

"Well the reason I brought this up is that I know your only outlet is your
hand and I have a better idea and it's right in the room."

"You goin' blow me."

"No Oliver, but Jack will."

I sat up in surprise.  You mean you taught him to suck cock?"

"No, he comes by it naturally.  Slip off your briefs and say "suck me", he'll
get right to it and he is really good, Walter."

I lay naked leaning back, my shoulders were against Mike's warm chest.
"Suck me!"  I ordered not believing for a moment that this was going to
work.  Mike was such a kidder, but Jack's ears went down in an odd way,
as though he was embarrassed, then he stared at me a minute so as to say
"let's keep this between us."

I murmured, "Don't ask, don't tell."

His paws when on either side of my hips.  His gigantic red tongue unfurled
and he wrapped it against my rapidly rising dick.  He swirled.  I moaned
slightly, but as his treatment continued, I found I moaned continuously.
Then he began a rapid corkscrewing of his tongue and I began my orbiting
in a sexual haze.

"Good boy, Clyde, just relax into your coming cum.  That gives you the
best release."

He was stroking my chest.  Believe me, I am sensitive on my nipples and
that hastened my stiffening up and screaming out my ejaculation,
then....everything went blank.  This was too intense a cum for me to stay
conscious.

When I awoke, I was neatly covered up and Mike was nowhere to be
scene, but I heard a slight whimper coming from the fireplace.  There sat
Jack, on his haunches, lapping on a Screw Driver.  He glanced at me, then
went back to his alcoholic indulgences.

I fell back and snuggled down under the coverlet.  The next time I awoke,
it was early morning with the sun just coming into the room.  Mike also
had arrived.  He came over to the bed.  "Hey Clem, have you ever had
your ass rimmed?"

Unk was full of sexual adventure this visit.  Rimming?  Yeah I heard of it.
I think it was some kind of yucky sex act, but Mike explained to me that
Jack was a master of the act.  "We can push up our asses and see what
happens.   Before I knew it, there we were, Uncle and Nephew on our
elbows and knees, the morning ass making our puckers tight.

I waited.  Nothing.  Then I felt Jack's hot breath on my ass hole and then
his stiff whiskers moving over my pucker.  I could feel him sniffing.  It felt
so good I almost cried out, but I didn't want to seem like a baby in front of
Mike.  Meanwhile Mike whispered to me, "The dumb dog is signifying that
he has already enjoyed my ass, he is more interested in yours."

I was a little nervous that the dog might not be satisfied with licking, that
he might try to mount me.  I have heard about things like that.  Mike
realized my worry.  "Listen Aubrey, if he does decide to fuck you,
remember, his cock is small compared to ours.  You probably won't be
bothered by the bugger."  But just then, Jack put his hunting dog paws
around my hips, like a lover, I could feel his moist dick pushed at the door
of my ass.  I let out a frightened sob.

Mike said, "Look, suck my finger.  It will help you forget what is
happening at your back door."  He inserted his big manly digit into my
boyish lips and I took to it like a pro.  I sucked it with all my might, out of
fear.  Then it happened, Jack entered my hot passage.  It didn't hurt, but it
sure felt strange.  His size prevented him from going deep, but its angle
kept hitting my little, hard prostate and that was sending passion stars to
my sexed up brain.

I was too in the throes of this new experience to realize that Mike had
gently extracted his finger and had turned his body around so that his
prodigious family sized cock was pressing against my lips.  Automatically I
opened my lips like a good zonked boy.  He moved in.  His precum was
intoxicating and I began tonguing the shaft.  More honey oozed out and I
was off; I was now a fucked boy and I sucking boy, but I didn't care.
Electrical sparks were running up and down my teen back.

"That's it Percy, you got it.  It feels so good.  How's your fuck going?"

I only groaned.  "Good, that groan tells me you are happy and in lust.  But
keep sucking.  I am getting close.  You have the hottest boi lips and I can't
hold off much longer."

"Then a strange thing happened.  First Jack ejaculated into my
fundaments; then Mike shouted and stiffened and treated my mouth and
tonsils with his fragrant cum.  That proved to be too much for me, my own
cock exploded so hard and so much that I again almost passed out.

When Mike and I got our breath back we checked out Jack.  He was
already sleeping on his back, snoring audibly.  Mike said that I was broken
in ass-wise, and I should be ready for the main event with a relatives
cornholing.

"Tell you what Freddie," I said to Mike.  "I think I'd like to get into the act
of fucking.  It's the only thing I haven't done yet this weekend.  What do
you say."

With a lisp like Boris Karloff he said, "Frankenstein, you have become a
monster, but youth must be served.  Wake me in the morning and fuck
me."


End




From gpaikens at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 06:43:07 2010
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:43:07 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Christianity
In-Reply-To: <20100217185155.x@y>
References: <20100217185155.x@y>
Message-ID: <1ff3a0e11002172243r12e41f30w575f0ce8c916583e@mail.gmail.com>

What in the world are you doing sending something like this on a
public list? If any of you haven't opened the message yet, it is a
pornographic description of a boy's first homosexual experiences with
his uncle. I'm not exxagerating. I'm hoping this was some kind of
accident, although an extremely embarrassing one.



On 2/17/10, Beth Kats <bethkats at samobile.net> wrote:
> The last year of high school was turning out to be a boring bitch.  That
> was, until yesterday when my folks, both teachers announced that they
> would be attending a conference.
>
> "Uncle Mike says you can stay with him for the week we are away.  He is
> even closer to the school, so you can walk there."
>
> My Uncle Mike is my mother's younger brother.  He developed some
> stupid software that has to do with pole taking.  He was bought out by one
> of the big polling companies for five million bucks.  He now is retired at
> the age of twenty-one and is he enjoying it.  He has two houses; one in
> the big city, a high-rise condo, the other one is his old house near us.  He
> has been a big brother to me since I was born.  I learned how to throw a
> fastball from him, how to attract girls later.  He's cool and fun.
>
> They left on a Friday and I came home from school directly to his house.
> My 'rents had cleverly left a suitcase with clothes for me.  Little did I
> know what little use I would have for them?  (Hah, got you interested huh?
> You fucking pervs want to see a naked 18 year old.)
>
> I rang the doorbell, Jack Russell, Mike's dog barked like a crazy nut.  Then
> he smelled me through the door and shut up.  He was amazing the way he
> knew who was his enemy and who was a friend.  Incidentally, Jack was a
> Jack Russell Terrier and Mike with no imagination named him Jack.  "So
> he won't get confused," Mike explained.
>
> Mike opened the door.  He was wearing his under shorts.  His muscled
> bare chest was dripping with sweat.
>
> "Stop staring at my chest, you fruit cake," said Mike, holding Jack's collar
> to keep him from escaping the house.  "He's got a girl friend on the next
> block, a miserable flea trap, but he likes them low down."
>
> "How old is Jack?"
>
> "Same age as me."
>
> "What?"
>
> "In door years, he's twenty years old."
>
> We preceding into the house.  "How about a work out with me?"
>
> "I'm a little tired from school all day.  I don't know."
>
> "Oh poor baby.  Only your ass is tired from sitting.  Strip and meet me in
> the gym."
>
> Jack followed me into my room.  I think he thought I might have some gin
> in my suitcase.  He loves gin and orange juice.  Besides that, his main
> food is hamburger and onions.
>
> I realized that I had no proper gym clothes, or even trainers.  So I just
> wore my briefs and bare feet.  When Mike saw me come into the workout
> area he shouted, "Oh to be eighteen again.  What skin, what a bulge in
> your briefs.  I think you inherited the economy size family prick.  Oh stop
> blushing.  That's a good thing."
>
> I began doing arm lifts, Mike got on the treadmill.  The place began to
> smell of man sweat and it was getting to me.  "Hey Oliver (he calls me any
> of twenty different names, changing every minute.) I think you are getting
> a woody.  Please show some respect for Jack."
>
> We continued working out for one hour.  I gave in first.  "Hey Unk, I'm
> hungry.  You got any of Jack's hamburger left?"
>
> "He doesn't have that anymore, at least not right now.  He decided he'd
> too fat and he went on a diet."
>
> "You're kidding.  Did he tell you that?"
>
> "No, he just refused his hamburger and onions and started eating my plate
> of vegetables.  He's also into salad."
>
> "What a character."
>
> "Anyway, I've got some great steaks for you Chadwick."
>
> He really did have them.  They were at least a pound and a half of porter
> house.  He made a big salad and a smaller one for Jack who smacked his
> lips in appreciation.  There were beers on the table.  Mike said nothing, he
> didn't want to seem to be offering them to me, but the hint was there and I
> finished three during dinner.  I helped clean up which was quick and easy,
> then I told Mike that I was bushed and wanted to go up for a quick snooze.
>
> I fell asleep in the guest room for about a half hour.  I was awakened by
> Jack jumping up on the bed and staring at me.  Uncle Mike came in.  "I see
> you're awake.  He does that to me too stares me into wakefulness."
>
> Mike sat on the bed.  "Tell me Alphonse, have you been laid yet?"
>
> Wow, that came out of nowhere, but I am very comfortable talking private
> things with Uncle Mike.  Hd was the one who told me the big secret of
> how babies were conceived, when I was ten years old.
>
> "No, I'm a virgin."
>
> "No blow jobs?"
>
> "No, and that's enough questions."
>
> "Well the reason I brought this up is that I know your only outlet is your
> hand and I have a better idea and it's right in the room."
>
> "You goin' blow me."
>
> "No Oliver, but Jack will."
>
> I sat up in surprise.  You mean you taught him to suck cock?"
>
> "No, he comes by it naturally.  Slip off your briefs and say "suck me",
> he'll
> get right to it and he is really good, Walter."
>
> I lay naked leaning back, my shoulders were against Mike's warm chest.
> "Suck me!"  I ordered not believing for a moment that this was going to
> work.  Mike was such a kidder, but Jack's ears went down in an odd way,
> as though he was embarrassed, then he stared at me a minute so as to say
> "let's keep this between us."
>
> I murmured, "Don't ask, don't tell."
>
> His paws when on either side of my hips.  His gigantic red tongue unfurled
> and he wrapped it against my rapidly rising dick.  He swirled.  I moaned
> slightly, but as his treatment continued, I found I moaned continuously.
> Then he began a rapid corkscrewing of his tongue and I began my orbiting
> in a sexual haze.
>
> "Good boy, Clyde, just relax into your coming cum.  That gives you the
> best release."
>
> He was stroking my chest.  Believe me, I am sensitive on my nipples and
> that hastened my stiffening up and screaming out my ejaculation,
> then....everything went blank.  This was too intense a cum for me to stay
> conscious.
>
> When I awoke, I was neatly covered up and Mike was nowhere to be
> scene, but I heard a slight whimper coming from the fireplace.  There sat
> Jack, on his haunches, lapping on a Screw Driver.  He glanced at me, then
> went back to his alcoholic indulgences.
>
> I fell back and snuggled down under the coverlet.  The next time I awoke,
> it was early morning with the sun just coming into the room.  Mike also
> had arrived.  He came over to the bed.  "Hey Clem, have you ever had
> your ass rimmed?"
>
> Unk was full of sexual adventure this visit.  Rimming?  Yeah I heard of it.
> I think it was some kind of yucky sex act, but Mike explained to me that
> Jack was a master of the act.  "We can push up our asses and see what
> happens.   Before I knew it, there we were, Uncle and Nephew on our
> elbows and knees, the morning ass making our puckers tight.
>
> I waited.  Nothing.  Then I felt Jack's hot breath on my ass hole and then
> his stiff whiskers moving over my pucker.  I could feel him sniffing.  It
> felt
> so good I almost cried out, but I didn't want to seem like a baby in front
> of
> Mike.  Meanwhile Mike whispered to me, "The dumb dog is signifying that
> he has already enjoyed my ass, he is more interested in yours."
>
> I was a little nervous that the dog might not be satisfied with licking,
> that
> he might try to mount me.  I have heard about things like that.  Mike
> realized my worry.  "Listen Aubrey, if he does decide to fuck you,
> remember, his cock is small compared to ours.  You probably won't be
> bothered by the bugger."  But just then, Jack put his hunting dog paws
> around my hips, like a lover, I could feel his moist dick pushed at the door
> of my ass.  I let out a frightened sob.
>
> Mike said, "Look, suck my finger.  It will help you forget what is
> happening at your back door."  He inserted his big manly digit into my
> boyish lips and I took to it like a pro.  I sucked it with all my might, out
> of
> fear.  Then it happened, Jack entered my hot passage.  It didn't hurt, but
> it
> sure felt strange.  His size prevented him from going deep, but its angle
> kept hitting my little, hard prostate and that was sending passion stars to
> my sexed up brain.
>
> I was too in the throes of this new experience to realize that Mike had
> gently extracted his finger and had turned his body around so that his
> prodigious family sized cock was pressing against my lips.  Automatically I
> opened my lips like a good zonked boy.  He moved in.  His precum was
> intoxicating and I began tonguing the shaft.  More honey oozed out and I
> was off; I was now a fucked boy and I sucking boy, but I didn't care.
> Electrical sparks were running up and down my teen back.
>
> "That's it Percy, you got it.  It feels so good.  How's your fuck going?"
>
> I only groaned.  "Good, that groan tells me you are happy and in lust.  But
> keep sucking.  I am getting close.  You have the hottest boi lips and I
> can't
> hold off much longer."
>
> "Then a strange thing happened.  First Jack ejaculated into my
> fundaments; then Mike shouted and stiffened and treated my mouth and
> tonsils with his fragrant cum.  That proved to be too much for me, my own
> cock exploded so hard and so much that I again almost passed out.
>
> When Mike and I got our breath back we checked out Jack.  He was
> already sleeping on his back, snoring audibly.  Mike said that I was broken
> in ass-wise, and I should be ready for the main event with a relatives
> cornholing.
>
> "Tell you what Freddie," I said to Mike.  "I think I'd like to get into the
> act
> of fucking.  It's the only thing I haven't done yet this weekend.  What do
> you say."
>
> With a lisp like Boris Karloff he said, "Frankenstein, you have become a
> monster, but youth must be served.  Wake me in the morning and fuck
> me."
>
>
> End
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>



From bethkats at samobile.net  Thu Feb 18 07:02:11 2010
From: bethkats at samobile.net (Beth Kats)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:02:11 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Christianity
Message-ID: <20100218070211.18664.39947@web2.serotek.com>

I don't know who sent the mesage,but it was not me!  I saw it, too and 
it was my address.  I thought it was another Beth Kats.

-- 
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.



From eric at pmpmail.com  Thu Feb 18 08:21:52 2010
From: eric at pmpmail.com (Eric Calhoun)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:21:52 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] FW: [URCTCPrayerGroup2] bitterness, resentment,
	unforgiveness by Joyce Meyer
Message-ID: <mailman.16.1593447328.15261.faith-talk_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>



Original Message: 
From: "Donna" <whitedove57 at att.net>
To: <URCTCPrayerGroup2 at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [URCTCPrayerGroup2] bitterness, resentment, unforgiveness by
Joyce Meyer
Date: 
Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:27:19 -0500

Bitterness, Resentment and Unforgiveness 
by Joyce Meyer 
Many people ruin their health and their lives by taking the poison of
bitterness, resentment and unforgiveness. Matthew 18:23-35 tells us that if
we do not forgive people, we get turned over to the torturers. If you have
a problem in this area or have ever had one, I'm sure you bear witness with
what I'm saying. It's torture to have hateful thoughts toward another
person rolling around inside your head. 

Helping Yourself and Others 

Who are you helping most when you forgive the person who hurt you?
Actually, you're helping yourself more than the other person. I always
looked at forgiving people who hurt me as being really hard. I thought it
seemed so unfair for them to receive forgiveness when I had gotten hurt. I
got pain, and they got freedom without having to pay for the pain they
caused. Now I realize that I'm helping myself when I choose to forgive. 

I'm also helping the other person by releasing them so God can do what
only He can do. If I'm in the way-trying to get revenge or take care of the
situation myself instead of trusting and obeying God-He has no obligation
to deal with that person. However, God will deal with those who hurt us if
we'll put them in His hands through forgiveness. The act of forgiving is
our seed of obedience to His Word. Once we've sown our seed, He is faithful
to bring a harvest of blessing to us one way or another.
 
Another way that forgiveness helps me is that it releases God to do His
work in me. I'm happier and feel better physically when I'm not filled with
the poison of unforgiveness. Serious diseases can develop as a result of
the stress and pressure that bitterness, resentment and unforgiveness put
on a person. Mark 11:22-26 clearly teaches us that unforgiveness hinders
our faith from working. The Father can't forgive our sins if we don't
forgive other people. We reap what we sow. Sow mercy, and you'll reap
mercy; sow judgment, and you'll reap judgment. So do yourself a favor-and
forgive. 

There are still more benefits of forgiveness. Your fellowship with God
flows freely when you're willing to forgive, but it gets blocked by
unforgiveness. Forgiveness also keeps Satan from getting an advantage over
us (see 2 Corinthians 2:10,11). Ephesians 4:26,27 tells us not to let the
sun go down on our anger or give the devil any such foothold or
opportunity. Remember that the devil must have a foothold before he can get
a stronghold. Do not help Satan torture you. Be quick to forgive. 

I also think it's hard to hate one person but love another. It's hard to
treat anybody right when our heart isn't right. Even people you want to
love may be suffering from your bitterness, resentment and unforgiveness. 

How to Forgive
 
Would you like to become more successful at forgiving others? There are
practical steps that must be taken. One time I asked the Lord why so many
people want to forgive but aren't successful doing it. And He said,
"Because they aren't obeying what I tell them to do in My Word." As I
searched the Word, I found the following instructions: 

1. Decide - You will never forgive if you wait until you feel like it.
Choose to obey God and steadfastly resist the devil in his attempts to
poison you with bitter thoughts. Make a quality decision to forgive, and
God will heal your wounded emotions in due time (see Matthew 6:12,14). 

2. Depend - You cannot forgive without the power of the Holy Spirit. It's
too hard to do on your own. If you are truly willing, God will enable you,
but you must humble yourself and cry out to Him for help. In John 20:22,23
Jesus breathed on the disciples and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit!" His
next instruction was about forgiving people. Ask God to breathe the Holy
Spirit on you so you can forgive those who've hurt you. 

3. Obey - The Word tells us several things we're to do concerning
forgiving our enemies: 

a. Pray for your enemies and those who abuse and misuse you. Pray for
their happiness and welfare (see Luke 6:27,28). As you pray, God can give
them revelation that will bring them out of deception. They may not even be
aware they hurt you, or maybe they're aware but are so self-centered that
they don't care. Either way, they need revelation. 

b. .Bless and do not curse them (Romans 12:14). In the Greek to bless
means "to speak well of" and to curse means "to speak evil of." You can't
walk in forgiveness and be a gossip. You must stop repeating the offense.
You can't get over it if you continue to talk about it. Proverbs 17:9 says
that he who covers an offense seeks love.

Who Should Forgive? 

Forgive the person who badly hurt you long ago and also the stranger who
stepped on your toe in the grocery store. Take those two extremes and
forgive them in addition to everyone in between. Forgive quickly. The
quicker you do it, the easier it is. Forgive freely. Matthew 10:8 says,
.Freely you have received, freely give (NKJV). Forgive means "to excuse a
fault, absolve from payment, pardon, send away, cancel, and bestow favor
unconditionally." 

When you forgive, you must cancel the debt. Do not spend your life paying
and collecting debts. Hebrews 10:30 says that vengeance belongs to the
Lord; He'll repay and settle the cases of His people. Let God pay you for
past injustices. Do not try to collect from the people who hurt you,
because the people who hurt you can't pay you. 

Also, forgive yourself for past sins and hurts you have caused others.
You can't pay people back, so ask God to. 

Forgive God if you are angry with Him because your life didn't turn out
the way you thought it should. God is always just. There may be things you
don't understand, but God loves you, and people make a serious mistake when
they don't receive help from the only One who can truly help them. 

You may even need to forgive a situation or an object-the post office,
bank, a certain store that may have cheated you, a car that always gave you
trouble, etc. Get rid of all poison that comes from bitterness, resentment
and unforgiveness. And remember Proverbs 4:23: Keep and guard your heart
with all vigilance...for out of it flow the springs of life. 

Unforgiveness is spiritual filthiness, so get washed in the water of
God's Word to forgive and stay clean. 

Hugs,
Donna



 


Copyright ?1998-2004 Joyce Meyer Ministries. 
All rights reserved. Copyright Policy

He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the
shadow of the Almighty. Ps 91:1

From lison1273 at live.com  Thu Feb 18 13:45:40 2010
From: lison1273 at live.com (Lisa Ison)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:45:40 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] inappropriate posts
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP61447F0DDC46E67CE586D6D3470@phx.gbl>

Hello all, this is Lisa and I just wanted you to know that at least two
other nfb loops are having the same kind of trouble that we are.  The first
one is the Jobs list and the second one is Nagdu.


From sanchez.maryellen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 13:50:55 2010
From: sanchez.maryellen at gmail.com (mary sanchez)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:50:55 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] test
References: <BLU0-SMTP64C1C1ACEF1CCF26B202AED3480@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AEAE6B3BE32D47F286F5993E6449E495@ownerf32575c2a>

hello lisa yes they sure are. so how have you been what are you up to??  I 
hope to hear from you soon.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lisa Ison" <lison1273 at live.com>
To: <seeingeye-l at list.web.net>
Cc: <buddy-l at yahoogroups.com>; <vi-clicker-trainers at freelists.org>; "'~ A 12 
Step Anonymous List For Compulsive Eaters ~'" 
<CHRISTIAN at LISTS.THERECOVERYGROUP.ORG>; <nagdu at nfbnet.org>; 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>; <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>; 
<common-lounge at googlegroups.com>; <guidedog-friends at yahoogroups.com>; 
<the-dog-park at yahoogroups.com>; <recoverymail at YAHOO.COM>; 
<GDUI-Friends at yahoogroups.com>; <overeaters_anonymous at yahoogroups.com>; 
<guidedog-circle at yahoogroups.com>; <EXERCISE at LISTS.THERECOVERYGROUP.ORG>; 
<click-to-guide at googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 10:18 AM
Subject: [Faith-talk] test


>I am just making sure that all of my messages are coming through loud and
> clear.
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/sanchez.maryellen%40gmail.com 




From marywurtzel at comcast.net  Thu Feb 18 16:10:14 2010
From: marywurtzel at comcast.net (mary wurtzel)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:10:14 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Christianity
Message-ID: <20100218143736.405E8C5042@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com>

I have never seen anything like this in my life.  How can this be 
happening? Dave, can we trace this?  Is this against the law?
Sincerely,
Mary Wurtzel

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Beth Kats <bethkats at samobile.net
>To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:51:55 -0800
>Subject: [Faith-talk] Christianity

>The last year of high school was turning out to be a boring 
bitch.  That
>was, until yesterday when my folks, both teachers announced that 
they
>would be attending a conference.

>"Uncle Mike says you can stay with him for the week we are away.  
He is
>even closer to the school, so you can walk there."

>My Uncle Mike is my mother's younger brother.  He developed some
>stupid software that has to do with pole taking.  He was bought 
out by one
>of the big polling companies for five million bucks.  He now is 
retired at
>the age of twenty-one and is he enjoying it.  He has two houses; 
one in
>the big city, a high-rise condo, the other one is his old house 
near us.  He
>has been a big brother to me since I was born.  I learned how to 
throw a
>fastball from him, how to attract girls later.  He's cool and 
fun.

>They left on a Friday and I came home from school directly to his 
house.
>My 'rents had cleverly left a suitcase with clothes for me.  
Little did I
>know what little use I would have for them?  (Hah, got you 
interested huh?
>You fucking pervs want to see a naked 18 year old.)

>I rang the doorbell, Jack Russell, Mike's dog barked like a crazy 
nut.  Then
>he smelled me through the door and shut up.  He was amazing the 
way he
>knew who was his enemy and who was a friend.  Incidentally, Jack 
was a
>Jack Russell Terrier and Mike with no imagination named him Jack.  
"So
>he won't get confused," Mike explained.

>Mike opened the door.  He was wearing his under shorts.  His 
muscled
>bare chest was dripping with sweat.

>"Stop staring at my chest, you fruit cake," said Mike, holding 
Jack's collar
>to keep him from escaping the house.  "He's got a girl friend on 
the next
>block, a miserable flea trap, but he likes them low down."

>"How old is Jack?"

>"Same age as me."

>"What?"

>"In door years, he's twenty years old."

>We preceding into the house.  "How about a work out with me?"

>"I'm a little tired from school all day.  I don't know."

>"Oh poor baby.  Only your ass is tired from sitting.  Strip and 
meet me in
>the gym."

>Jack followed me into my room.  I think he thought I might have 
some gin
>in my suitcase.  He loves gin and orange juice.  Besides that, 
his main
>food is hamburger and onions.

>I realized that I had no proper gym clothes, or even trainers.  
So I just
>wore my briefs and bare feet.  When Mike saw me come into the 
workout
>area he shouted, "Oh to be eighteen again.  What skin, what a 
bulge in
>your briefs.  I think you inherited the economy size family 
prick.  Oh stop
>blushing.  That's a good thing."

>I began doing arm lifts, Mike got on the treadmill.  The place 
began to
>smell of man sweat and it was getting to me.  "Hey Oliver (he 
calls me any
>of twenty different names, changing every minute.) I think you 
are getting
>a woody.  Please show some respect for Jack."

>We continued working out for one hour.  I gave in first.  "Hey 
Unk, I'm
>hungry.  You got any of Jack's hamburger left?"

>"He doesn't have that anymore, at least not right now.  He 
decided he'd
>too fat and he went on a diet."

>"You're kidding.  Did he tell you that?"

>"No, he just refused his hamburger and onions and started eating 
my plate
>of vegetables.  He's also into salad."

>"What a character."

>"Anyway, I've got some great steaks for you Chadwick."

>He really did have them.  They were at least a pound and a half 
of porter
>house.  He made a big salad and a smaller one for Jack who 
smacked his
>lips in appreciation.  There were beers on the table.  Mike said 
nothing, he
>didn't want to seem to be offering them to me, but the hint was 
there and I
>finished three during dinner.  I helped clean up which was quick 
and easy,
>then I told Mike that I was bushed and wanted to go up for a 
quick snooze.

>I fell asleep in the guest room for about a half hour.  I was 
awakened by
>Jack jumping up on the bed and staring at me.  Uncle Mike came 
in.  "I see
>you're awake.  He does that to me too stares me into 
wakefulness."

>Mike sat on the bed.  "Tell me Alphonse, have you been laid yet?"

>Wow, that came out of nowhere, but I am very comfortable talking 
private
>things with Uncle Mike.  Hd was the one who told me the big 
secret of
>how babies were conceived, when I was ten years old.

>"No, I'm a virgin."

>"No blow jobs?"

>"No, and that's enough questions."

>"Well the reason I brought this up is that I know your only 
outlet is your
>hand and I have a better idea and it's right in the room."

>"You goin' blow me."

>"No Oliver, but Jack will."

>I sat up in surprise.  You mean you taught him to suck cock?"

>"No, he comes by it naturally.  Slip off your briefs and say 
"suck me", he'll
>get right to it and he is really good, Walter."

>I lay naked leaning back, my shoulders were against Mike's warm 
chest.
>"Suck me!"  I ordered not believing for a moment that this was 
going to
>work.  Mike was such a kidder, but Jack's ears went down in an 
odd way,
>as though he was embarrassed, then he stared at me a minute so as 
to say
>"let's keep this between us."

>I murmured, "Don't ask, don't tell."

>His paws when on either side of my hips.  His gigantic red tongue 
unfurled
>and he wrapped it against my rapidly rising dick.  He swirled.  I 
moaned
>slightly, but as his treatment continued, I found I moaned 
continuously.
>Then he began a rapid corkscrewing of his tongue and I began my 
orbiting
>in a sexual haze.

>"Good boy, Clyde, just relax into your coming cum.  That gives 
you the
>best release."

>He was stroking my chest.  Believe me, I am sensitive on my 
nipples and
>that hastened my stiffening up and screaming out my ejaculation,
>then....everything went blank.  This was too intense a cum for me 
to stay
>conscious.

>When I awoke, I was neatly covered up and Mike was nowhere to be
>scene, but I heard a slight whimper coming from the fireplace.  
There sat
>Jack, on his haunches, lapping on a Screw Driver.  He glanced at 
me, then
>went back to his alcoholic indulgences.

>I fell back and snuggled down under the coverlet.  The next time 
I awoke,
>it was early morning with the sun just coming into the room.  
Mike also
>had arrived.  He came over to the bed.  "Hey Clem, have you ever 
had
>your ass rimmed?"

>Unk was full of sexual adventure this visit.  Rimming?  Yeah I 
heard of it.
>I think it was some kind of yucky sex act, but Mike explained to 
me that
>Jack was a master of the act.  "We can push up our asses and see 
what
>happens.   Before I knew it, there we were, Uncle and Nephew on 
our
>elbows and knees, the morning ass making our puckers tight.

>I waited.  Nothing.  Then I felt Jack's hot breath on my ass hole 
and then
>his stiff whiskers moving over my pucker.  I could feel him 
sniffing.  It felt
>so good I almost cried out, but I didn't want to seem like a baby 
in front of
>Mike.  Meanwhile Mike whispered to me, "The dumb dog is 
signifying that
>he has already enjoyed my ass, he is more interested in yours."

>I was a little nervous that the dog might not be satisfied with 
licking, that
>he might try to mount me.  I have heard about things like that.  
Mike
>realized my worry.  "Listen Aubrey, if he does decide to fuck 
you,
>remember, his cock is small compared to ours.  You probably won't 
be
>bothered by the bugger."  But just then, Jack put his hunting dog 
paws
>around my hips, like a lover, I could feel his moist dick pushed 
at the door
>of my ass.  I let out a frightened sob.

>Mike said, "Look, suck my finger.  It will help you forget what 
is
>happening at your back door."  He inserted his big manly digit 
into my
>boyish lips and I took to it like a pro.  I sucked it with all my 
might, out of
>fear.  Then it happened, Jack entered my hot passage.  It didn't 
hurt, but it
>sure felt strange.  His size prevented him from going deep, but 
its angle
>kept hitting my little, hard prostate and that was sending 
passion stars to
>my sexed up brain.

>I was too in the throes of this new experience to realize that 
Mike had
>gently extracted his finger and had turned his body around so 
that his
>prodigious family sized cock was pressing against my lips.  
Automatically I
>opened my lips like a good zonked boy.  He moved in.  His precum 
was
>intoxicating and I began tonguing the shaft.  More honey oozed 
out and I
>was off; I was now a fucked boy and I sucking boy, but I didn't 
care.
>Electrical sparks were running up and down my teen back.

>"That's it Percy, you got it.  It feels so good.  How's your fuck 
going?"

>I only groaned.  "Good, that groan tells me you are happy and in 
lust.  But
>keep sucking.  I am getting close.  You have the hottest boi lips 
and I can't
>hold off much longer."

>"Then a strange thing happened.  First Jack ejaculated into my
>fundaments; then Mike shouted and stiffened and treated my mouth 
and
>tonsils with his fragrant cum.  That proved to be too much for 
me, my own
>cock exploded so hard and so much that I again almost passed out.

>When Mike and I got our breath back we checked out Jack.  He was
>already sleeping on his back, snoring audibly.  Mike said that I 
was broken
>in ass-wise, and I should be ready for the main event with a 
relatives
>cornholing.

>"Tell you what Freddie," I said to Mike.  "I think I'd like to 
get into the act
>of fucking.  It's the only thing I haven't done yet this weekend.  
What do
>you say."

>With a lisp like Boris Karloff he said, "Frankenstein, you have 
become a
>monster, but youth must be served.  Wake me in the morning and 
fuck
>me."


>End


>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
urtzel%40comcast.net



From poetlori8 at msn.com  Thu Feb 18 15:30:43 2010
From: poetlori8 at msn.com (Barbara Hammel)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:30:43 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] inappropriate posts
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP61447F0DDC46E67CE586D6D3470@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP61447F0DDC46E67CE586D6D3470@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY113-DS18EFBD9B4F3CCA7CAE6DEFEB470@phx.gbl>


The blind parent list also got hit.
Barbara

A Congress that will always do its work in the dark must have something to 
hide.  The people have spoken, yet they do not listen.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Lisa Ison" <lison1273 at live.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:45 AM
To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Faith-talk] inappropriate posts

> Hello all, this is Lisa and I just wanted you to know that at least two
> other nfb loops are having the same kind of trouble that we are.  The 
> first
> one is the Jobs list and the second one is Nagdu.
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
> 



From lison1273 at live.com  Thu Feb 18 15:59:04 2010
From: lison1273 at live.com (Lisa Ison)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:59:04 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Hello... is anyone out there???
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP626F8F660B84CE97C2078DD3470@phx.gbl>

Hello... is anyone out there???  And if so, are you all ok???  The reason
that I ask is that it has been very slow today.


From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Thu Feb 18 15:10:55 2010
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:10:55 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] inappropriate posts
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP61447F0DDC46E67CE586D6D3470@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <auto-000018347542@mailback2.g2host.com>

At least one other list specific to blindness not part of the NFBNET group of lists is also having this problem.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:45:40 -0500, Lisa Ison wrote:

>Hello all, this is Lisa and I just wanted you to know that at least two
>other nfb loops are having the same kind of trouble that we are.  The first
>one is the Jobs list and the second one is Nagdu.
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com







From gpaikens at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 16:23:15 2010
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:23:15 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Christianity
In-Reply-To: <20100218143736.405E8C5042@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com>
References: <20100218143736.405E8C5042@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1ff3a0e11002180823p3419fe53i7ed7875cdc28d349@mail.gmail.com>

Beth,
Sorry for jumping to conclusions there. I was pretty shocked at what I read.

On 2/18/10, mary wurtzel <marywurtzel at comcast.net> wrote:
> I have never seen anything like this in my life.  How can this be
> happening? Dave, can we trace this?  Is this against the law?
> Sincerely,
> Mary Wurtzel
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: Beth Kats <bethkats at samobile.net
>>To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:51:55 -0800
>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Christianity
>
>>The last year of high school was turning out to be a boring
> bitch.  That
>>was, until yesterday when my folks, both teachers announced that
> they
>>would be attending a conference.
>
>>"Uncle Mike says you can stay with him for the week we are away.
> He is
>>even closer to the school, so you can walk there."
>
>>My Uncle Mike is my mother's younger brother.  He developed some
>>stupid software that has to do with pole taking.  He was bought
> out by one
>>of the big polling companies for five million bucks.  He now is
> retired at
>>the age of twenty-one and is he enjoying it.  He has two houses;
> one in
>>the big city, a high-rise condo, the other one is his old house
> near us.  He
>>has been a big brother to me since I was born.  I learned how to
> throw a
>>fastball from him, how to attract girls later.  He's cool and
> fun.
>
>>They left on a Friday and I came home from school directly to his
> house.
>>My 'rents had cleverly left a suitcase with clothes for me.
> Little did I
>>know what little use I would have for them?  (Hah, got you
> interested huh?
>>You fucking pervs want to see a naked 18 year old.)
>
>>I rang the doorbell, Jack Russell, Mike's dog barked like a crazy
> nut.  Then
>>he smelled me through the door and shut up.  He was amazing the
> way he
>>knew who was his enemy and who was a friend.  Incidentally, Jack
> was a
>>Jack Russell Terrier and Mike with no imagination named him Jack.
> "So
>>he won't get confused," Mike explained.
>
>>Mike opened the door.  He was wearing his under shorts.  His
> muscled
>>bare chest was dripping with sweat.
>
>>"Stop staring at my chest, you fruit cake," said Mike, holding
> Jack's collar
>>to keep him from escaping the house.  "He's got a girl friend on
> the next
>>block, a miserable flea trap, but he likes them low down."
>
>>"How old is Jack?"
>
>>"Same age as me."
>
>>"What?"
>
>>"In door years, he's twenty years old."
>
>>We preceding into the house.  "How about a work out with me?"
>
>>"I'm a little tired from school all day.  I don't know."
>
>>"Oh poor baby.  Only your ass is tired from sitting.  Strip and
> meet me in
>>the gym."
>
>>Jack followed me into my room.  I think he thought I might have
> some gin
>>in my suitcase.  He loves gin and orange juice.  Besides that,
> his main
>>food is hamburger and onions.
>
>>I realized that I had no proper gym clothes, or even trainers.
> So I just
>>wore my briefs and bare feet.  When Mike saw me come into the
> workout
>>area he shouted, "Oh to be eighteen again.  What skin, what a
> bulge in
>>your briefs.  I think you inherited the economy size family
> prick.  Oh stop
>>blushing.  That's a good thing."
>
>>I began doing arm lifts, Mike got on the treadmill.  The place
> began to
>>smell of man sweat and it was getting to me.  "Hey Oliver (he
> calls me any
>>of twenty different names, changing every minute.) I think you
> are getting
>>a woody.  Please show some respect for Jack."
>
>>We continued working out for one hour.  I gave in first.  "Hey
> Unk, I'm
>>hungry.  You got any of Jack's hamburger left?"
>
>>"He doesn't have that anymore, at least not right now.  He
> decided he'd
>>too fat and he went on a diet."
>
>>"You're kidding.  Did he tell you that?"
>
>>"No, he just refused his hamburger and onions and started eating
> my plate
>>of vegetables.  He's also into salad."
>
>>"What a character."
>
>>"Anyway, I've got some great steaks for you Chadwick."
>
>>He really did have them.  They were at least a pound and a half
> of porter
>>house.  He made a big salad and a smaller one for Jack who
> smacked his
>>lips in appreciation.  There were beers on the table.  Mike said
> nothing, he
>>didn't want to seem to be offering them to me, but the hint was
> there and I
>>finished three during dinner.  I helped clean up which was quick
> and easy,
>>then I told Mike that I was bushed and wanted to go up for a
> quick snooze.
>
>>I fell asleep in the guest room for about a half hour.  I was
> awakened by
>>Jack jumping up on the bed and staring at me.  Uncle Mike came
> in.  "I see
>>you're awake.  He does that to me too stares me into
> wakefulness."
>
>>Mike sat on the bed.  "Tell me Alphonse, have you been laid yet?"
>
>>Wow, that came out of nowhere, but I am very comfortable talking
> private
>>things with Uncle Mike.  Hd was the one who told me the big
> secret of
>>how babies were conceived, when I was ten years old.
>
>>"No, I'm a virgin."
>
>>"No blow jobs?"
>
>>"No, and that's enough questions."
>
>>"Well the reason I brought this up is that I know your only
> outlet is your
>>hand and I have a better idea and it's right in the room."
>
>>"You goin' blow me."
>
>>"No Oliver, but Jack will."
>
>>I sat up in surprise.  You mean you taught him to suck cock?"
>
>>"No, he comes by it naturally.  Slip off your briefs and say
> "suck me", he'll
>>get right to it and he is really good, Walter."
>
>>I lay naked leaning back, my shoulders were against Mike's warm
> chest.
>>"Suck me!"  I ordered not believing for a moment that this was
> going to
>>work.  Mike was such a kidder, but Jack's ears went down in an
> odd way,
>>as though he was embarrassed, then he stared at me a minute so as
> to say
>>"let's keep this between us."
>
>>I murmured, "Don't ask, don't tell."
>
>>His paws when on either side of my hips.  His gigantic red tongue
> unfurled
>>and he wrapped it against my rapidly rising dick.  He swirled.  I
> moaned
>>slightly, but as his treatment continued, I found I moaned
> continuously.
>>Then he began a rapid corkscrewing of his tongue and I began my
> orbiting
>>in a sexual haze.
>
>>"Good boy, Clyde, just relax into your coming cum.  That gives
> you the
>>best release."
>
>>He was stroking my chest.  Believe me, I am sensitive on my
> nipples and
>>that hastened my stiffening up and screaming out my ejaculation,
>>then....everything went blank.  This was too intense a cum for me
> to stay
>>conscious.
>
>>When I awoke, I was neatly covered up and Mike was nowhere to be
>>scene, but I heard a slight whimper coming from the fireplace.
> There sat
>>Jack, on his haunches, lapping on a Screw Driver.  He glanced at
> me, then
>>went back to his alcoholic indulgences.
>
>>I fell back and snuggled down under the coverlet.  The next time
> I awoke,
>>it was early morning with the sun just coming into the room.
> Mike also
>>had arrived.  He came over to the bed.  "Hey Clem, have you ever
> had
>>your ass rimmed?"
>
>>Unk was full of sexual adventure this visit.  Rimming?  Yeah I
> heard of it.
>>I think it was some kind of yucky sex act, but Mike explained to
> me that
>>Jack was a master of the act.  "We can push up our asses and see
> what
>>happens.   Before I knew it, there we were, Uncle and Nephew on
> our
>>elbows and knees, the morning ass making our puckers tight.
>
>>I waited.  Nothing.  Then I felt Jack's hot breath on my ass hole
> and then
>>his stiff whiskers moving over my pucker.  I could feel him
> sniffing.  It felt
>>so good I almost cried out, but I didn't want to seem like a baby
> in front of
>>Mike.  Meanwhile Mike whispered to me, "The dumb dog is
> signifying that
>>he has already enjoyed my ass, he is more interested in yours."
>
>>I was a little nervous that the dog might not be satisfied with
> licking, that
>>he might try to mount me.  I have heard about things like that.
> Mike
>>realized my worry.  "Listen Aubrey, if he does decide to fuck
> you,
>>remember, his cock is small compared to ours.  You probably won't
> be
>>bothered by the bugger."  But just then, Jack put his hunting dog
> paws
>>around my hips, like a lover, I could feel his moist dick pushed
> at the door
>>of my ass.  I let out a frightened sob.
>
>>Mike said, "Look, suck my finger.  It will help you forget what
> is
>>happening at your back door."  He inserted his big manly digit
> into my
>>boyish lips and I took to it like a pro.  I sucked it with all my
> might, out of
>>fear.  Then it happened, Jack entered my hot passage.  It didn't
> hurt, but it
>>sure felt strange.  His size prevented him from going deep, but
> its angle
>>kept hitting my little, hard prostate and that was sending
> passion stars to
>>my sexed up brain.
>
>>I was too in the throes of this new experience to realize that
> Mike had
>>gently extracted his finger and had turned his body around so
> that his
>>prodigious family sized cock was pressing against my lips.
> Automatically I
>>opened my lips like a good zonked boy.  He moved in.  His precum
> was
>>intoxicating and I began tonguing the shaft.  More honey oozed
> out and I
>>was off; I was now a fucked boy and I sucking boy, but I didn't
> care.
>>Electrical sparks were running up and down my teen back.
>
>>"That's it Percy, you got it.  It feels so good.  How's your fuck
> going?"
>
>>I only groaned.  "Good, that groan tells me you are happy and in
> lust.  But
>>keep sucking.  I am getting close.  You have the hottest boi lips
> and I can't
>>hold off much longer."
>
>>"Then a strange thing happened.  First Jack ejaculated into my
>>fundaments; then Mike shouted and stiffened and treated my mouth
> and
>>tonsils with his fragrant cum.  That proved to be too much for
> me, my own
>>cock exploded so hard and so much that I again almost passed out.
>
>>When Mike and I got our breath back we checked out Jack.  He was
>>already sleeping on his back, snoring audibly.  Mike said that I
> was broken
>>in ass-wise, and I should be ready for the main event with a
> relatives
>>cornholing.
>
>>"Tell you what Freddie," I said to Mike.  "I think I'd like to
> get into the act
>>of fucking.  It's the only thing I haven't done yet this weekend.
> What do
>>you say."
>
>>With a lisp like Boris Karloff he said, "Frankenstein, you have
> become a
>>monster, but youth must be served.  Wake me in the morning and
> fuck
>>me."
>
>
>>End
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Faith-talk mailing list
>>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for Faith-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/maryw
> urtzel%40comcast.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>



From sanchez.maryellen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 16:39:13 2010
From: sanchez.maryellen at gmail.com (mary sanchez)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:39:13 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Hello... is anyone out there???
References: <BLU0-SMTP626F8F660B84CE97C2078DD3470@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CC6706A731D740C58453B64F6FEE814E@ownerf32575c2a>

hello lisa yes i am here. i am well.  so what are you up to? do you use 
instant messenger?  i thought we could talk if so.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lisa Ison" <lison1273 at live.com>
To: <seeingeye-l at list.web.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:59 AM
Subject: [Faith-talk] Hello... is anyone out there???


> Hello... is anyone out there???  And if so, are you all ok???  The reason
> that I ask is that it has been very slow today.
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/sanchez.maryellen%40gmail.com 




From lauraeaves at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 16:58:50 2010
From: lauraeaves at yahoo.com (qubit)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:58:50 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] inappropriate posts
References: <BLU0-SMTP61447F0DDC46E67CE586D6D3470@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A898452D169A4327A4C26AEAAB053DB8@bassclef>

I heard these posts were also infiltrating the bw-micro lists as well.  The 
scary thing is that they spoof the name of persons on the list.
--le

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lisa Ison" <lison1273 at live.com>
To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:45 AM
Subject: [Faith-talk] inappropriate posts


Hello all, this is Lisa and I just wanted you to know that at least two
other nfb loops are having the same kind of trouble that we are.  The first
one is the Jobs list and the second one is Nagdu.
_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com 




From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Feb 18 23:01:33 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:01:33 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Christianity
In-Reply-To: <20100218143736.405E8C5042@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com>
References: <20100218143736.405E8C5042@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000140077665@mailfront2.g2host.com>

We are doing what we can to trace it -- unfortunately there isn't a 
lot that can be done.  Someone is spoofing e-mail addresses, that is 
deliberately changing them to make it look like the message is coming 
from someone that it actually isn't.  Mine has been spoofed too.  It 
is happening on many blindness-related lists, not just nfbnet.org 
lists.  As I say, we are trying to track down, but from the mailing 
list software it looks like the messages are from legitimate users.

Dave

At 10:10 AM 2/18/2010, you wrote:
>I have never seen anything like this in my life.  How can this be 
>happening? Dave, can we trace this?  Is this against the law?
>Sincerely,
>Mary Wurtzel
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Beth Kats <bethkats at samobile.net
>>To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:51:55 -0800
>>Subject: [Faith-talk] Christianity
>
>>The last year of high school was turning out to be a boring
>bitch.  That
>>was, until yesterday when my folks, both teachers announced that
>they
>>would be attending a conference.
>
>>"Uncle Mike says you can stay with him for the week we are away.
>He is
>>even closer to the school, so you can walk there."
>
>>My Uncle Mike is my mother's younger brother.  He developed some
>>stupid software that has to do with pole taking.  He was bought
>out by one
>>of the big polling companies for five million bucks.  He now is
>retired at
>>the age of twenty-one and is he enjoying it.  He has two houses;
>one in
>>the big city, a high-rise condo, the other one is his old house
>near us.  He
>>has been a big brother to me since I was born.  I learned how to
>throw a
>>fastball from him, how to attract girls later.  He's cool and
>fun.
>
>>They left on a Friday and I came home from school directly to his
>house.
>>My 'rents had cleverly left a suitcase with clothes for me.
>Little did I
>>know what little use I would have for them?  (Hah, got you
>interested huh?
>>You fucking pervs want to see a naked 18 year old.)
>
>>I rang the doorbell, Jack Russell, Mike's dog barked like a crazy
>nut.  Then
>>he smelled me through the door and shut up.  He was amazing the
>way he
>>knew who was his enemy and who was a friend.  Incidentally, Jack
>was a
>>Jack Russell Terrier and Mike with no imagination named him Jack.
>"So
>>he won't get confused," Mike explained.
>
>>Mike opened the door.  He was wearing his under shorts.  His
>muscled
>>bare chest was dripping with sweat.
>
>>"Stop staring at my chest, you fruit cake," said Mike, holding
>Jack's collar
>>to keep him from escaping the house.  "He's got a girl friend on
>the next
>>block, a miserable flea trap, but he likes them low down."
>
>>"How old is Jack?"
>
>>"Same age as me."
>
>>"What?"
>
>>"In door years, he's twenty years old."
>
>>We preceding into the house.  "How about a work out with me?"
>
>>"I'm a little tired from school all day.  I don't know."
>
>>"Oh poor baby.  Only your ass is tired from sitting.  Strip and
>meet me in
>>the gym."
>
>>Jack followed me into my room.  I think he thought I might have
>some gin
>>in my suitcase.  He loves gin and orange juice.  Besides that,
>his main
>>food is hamburger and onions.
>
>>I realized that I had no proper gym clothes, or even trainers.
>So I just
>>wore my briefs and bare feet.  When Mike saw me come into the
>workout
>>area he shouted, "Oh to be eighteen again.  What skin, what a
>bulge in
>>your briefs.  I think you inherited the economy size family
>prick.  Oh stop
>>blushing.  That's a good thing."
>
>>I began doing arm lifts, Mike got on the treadmill.  The place
>began to
>>smell of man sweat and it was getting to me.  "Hey Oliver (he
>calls me any
>>of twenty different names, changing every minute.) I think you
>are getting
>>a woody.  Please show some respect for Jack."
>
>>We continued working out for one hour.  I gave in first.  "Hey
>Unk, I'm
>>hungry.  You got any of Jack's hamburger left?"
>
>>"He doesn't have that anymore, at least not right now.  He
>decided he'd
>>too fat and he went on a diet."
>
>>"You're kidding.  Did he tell you that?"
>
>>"No, he just refused his hamburger and onions and started eating
>my plate
>>of vegetables.  He's also into salad."
>
>>"What a character."
>
>>"Anyway, I've got some great steaks for you Chadwick."
>
>>He really did have them.  They were at least a pound and a half
>of porter
>>house.  He made a big salad and a smaller one for Jack who
>smacked his
>>lips in appreciation.  There were beers on the table.  Mike said
>nothing, he
>>didn't want to seem to be offering them to me, but the hint was
>there and I
>>finished three during dinner.  I helped clean up which was quick
>and easy,
>>then I told Mike that I was bushed and wanted to go up for a
>quick snooze.
>
>>I fell asleep in the guest room for about a half hour.  I was
>awakened by
>>Jack jumping up on the bed and staring at me.  Uncle Mike came
>in.  "I see
>>you're awake.  He does that to me too stares me into
>wakefulness."
>
>>Mike sat on the bed.  "Tell me Alphonse, have you been laid yet?"
>
>>Wow, that came out of nowhere, but I am very comfortable talking
>private
>>things with Uncle Mike.  Hd was the one who told me the big
>secret of
>>how babies were conceived, when I was ten years old.
>
>>"No, I'm a virgin."
>
>>"No blow jobs?"
>
>>"No, and that's enough questions."
>
>>"Well the reason I brought this up is that I know your only
>outlet is your
>>hand and I have a better idea and it's right in the room."
>
>>"You goin' blow me."
>
>>"No Oliver, but Jack will."
>
>>I sat up in surprise.  You mean you taught him to suck cock?"
>
>>"No, he comes by it naturally.  Slip off your briefs and say
>"suck me", he'll
>>get right to it and he is really good, Walter."
>
>>I lay naked leaning back, my shoulders were against Mike's warm
>chest.
>>"Suck me!"  I ordered not believing for a moment that this was
>going to
>>work.  Mike was such a kidder, but Jack's ears went down in an
>odd way,
>>as though he was embarrassed, then he stared at me a minute so as
>to say
>>"let's keep this between us."
>
>>I murmured, "Don't ask, don't tell."
>
>>His paws when on either side of my hips.  His gigantic red tongue
>unfurled
>>and he wrapped it against my rapidly rising dick.  He swirled.  I
>moaned
>>slightly, but as his treatment continued, I found I moaned
>continuously.
>>Then he began a rapid corkscrewing of his tongue and I began my
>orbiting
>>in a sexual haze.
>
>>"Good boy, Clyde, just relax into your coming cum.  That gives
>you the
>>best release."
>
>>He was stroking my chest.  Believe me, I am sensitive on my
>nipples and
>>that hastened my stiffening up and screaming out my ejaculation,
>>then....everything went blank.  This was too intense a cum for me
>to stay
>>conscious.
>
>>When I awoke, I was neatly covered up and Mike was nowhere to be
>>scene, but I heard a slight whimper coming from the fireplace.
>There sat
>>Jack, on his haunches, lapping on a Screw Driver.  He glanced at
>me, then
>>went back to his alcoholic indulgences.
>
>>I fell back and snuggled down under the coverlet.  The next time
>I awoke,
>>it was early morning with the sun just coming into the room.
>Mike also
>>had arrived.  He came over to the bed.  "Hey Clem, have you ever
>had
>>your ass rimmed?"
>
>>Unk was full of sexual adventure this visit.  Rimming?  Yeah I
>heard of it.
>>I think it was some kind of yucky sex act, but Mike explained to
>me that
>>Jack was a master of the act.  "We can push up our asses and see
>what
>>happens.   Before I knew it, there we were, Uncle and Nephew on
>our
>>elbows and knees, the morning ass making our puckers tight.
>
>>I waited.  Nothing.  Then I felt Jack's hot breath on my ass hole
>and then
>>his stiff whiskers moving over my pucker.  I could feel him
>sniffing.  It felt
>>so good I almost cried out, but I didn't want to seem like a baby
>in front of
>>Mike.  Meanwhile Mike whispered to me, "The dumb dog is
>signifying that
>>he has already enjoyed my ass, he is more interested in yours."
>
>>I was a little nervous that the dog might not be satisfied with
>licking, that
>>he might try to mount me.  I have heard about things like that.
>Mike
>>realized my worry.  "Listen Aubrey, if he does decide to fuck
>you,
>>remember, his cock is small compared to ours.  You probably won't
>be
>>bothered by the bugger."  But just then, Jack put his hunting dog
>paws
>>around my hips, like a lover, I could feel his moist dick pushed
>at the door
>>of my ass.  I let out a frightened sob.
>
>>Mike said, "Look, suck my finger.  It will help you forget what
>is
>>happening at your back door."  He inserted his big manly digit
>into my
>>boyish lips and I took to it like a pro.  I sucked it with all my
>might, out of
>>fear.  Then it happened, Jack entered my hot passage.  It didn't
>hurt, but it
>>sure felt strange.  His size prevented him from going deep, but
>its angle
>>kept hitting my little, hard prostate and that was sending
>passion stars to
>>my sexed up brain.
>
>>I was too in the throes of this new experience to realize that
>Mike had
>>gently extracted his finger and had turned his body around so
>that his
>>prodigious family sized cock was pressing against my lips.
>Automatically I
>>opened my lips like a good zonked boy.  He moved in.  His precum
>was
>>intoxicating and I began tonguing the shaft.  More honey oozed
>out and I
>>was off; I was now a fucked boy and I sucking boy, but I didn't
>care.
>>Electrical sparks were running up and down my teen back.
>
>>"That's it Percy, you got it.  It feels so good.  How's your fuck
>going?"
>
>>I only groaned.  "Good, that groan tells me you are happy and in
>lust.  But
>>keep sucking.  I am getting close.  You have the hottest boi lips
>and I can't
>>hold off much longer."
>
>>"Then a strange thing happened.  First Jack ejaculated into my
>>fundaments; then Mike shouted and stiffened and treated my mouth
>and
>>tonsils with his fragrant cum.  That proved to be too much for
>me, my own
>>cock exploded so hard and so much that I again almost passed out.
>
>>When Mike and I got our breath back we checked out Jack.  He was
>>already sleeping on his back, snoring audibly.  Mike said that I
>was broken
>>in ass-wise, and I should be ready for the main event with a
>relatives
>>cornholing.
>
>>"Tell you what Freddie," I said to Mike.  "I think I'd like to
>get into the act
>>of fucking.  It's the only thing I haven't done yet this weekend.
>What do
>>you say."
>
>>With a lisp like Boris Karloff he said, "Frankenstein, you have
>become a
>>monster, but youth must be served.  Wake me in the morning and
>fuck
>>me."




From mentink at frontiernet.net  Fri Feb 19 00:16:01 2010
From: mentink at frontiernet.net (Linda Mentink)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:16:01 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Hello... is anyone out there???
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP626F8F660B84CE97C2078DD3470@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP626F8F660B84CE97C2078DD3470@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20100219001600.454DE18E2B8@relay04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

Hi Lisa,
,

Normally, this list doesn't have much traffic.  We're here, as far as 
I know, except for Devona, who was dealing with a crashing computer.

I must admit, when I came in here to check email a few minutes ago, I 
went into shock when I saw that message supposedly from Beth.  Beth, 
I'm glad you truly didn't send it, and I pray something can be done 
about this massive inappropriateness on our wonderful lists.

Blessings,

LindaAt 09:59 AM 2/18/2010, you wrote:
>Hello... is anyone out there???  And if so, are you all ok???  The reason
>that I ask is that it has been very slow today.
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40frontiernet.net
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2693 - Release Date: 
>02/17/10 01:35:00





From bethkats at samobile.net  Tue Feb 23 05:40:32 2010
From: bethkats at samobile.net (Beth Kats)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:40:32 -0500
Subject: [Faith-talk] Christianity
Message-ID: <20100223054032.10256.77959@web1.serotek.com>

I don't know where this post came from!  It was not me!  I am Beth Kats 
and it had my address, but I did n't write it.  I thought it was pretty 
shocking when I read this.
Beth

-- 
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.



From lauraeaves at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 16:16:31 2010
From: lauraeaves at yahoo.com (qubit)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:16:31 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Christianity
References: <20100223054032.10256.77959@web1.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <343EDAA58E6C4777B53A3BB6637E14D9@bassclef>

It's been happening on other lists, too, Beth, and with different people's 
names being spoofed.  Don't worry--you haven't been kicked off the list and 
people know you didn't send it.
--le

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth Kats" <bethkats at samobile.net>
To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Christianity


I don't know where this post came from!  It was not me!  I am Beth Kats
and it had my address, but I did n't write it.  I thought it was pretty
shocking when I read this.
Beth

-- 
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.

_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com 




From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Feb 25 00:53:51 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:53:51 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Christianity
In-Reply-To: <20100223054032.10256.77959@web1.serotek.com>
References: <20100223054032.10256.77959@web1.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000141323624@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Somebody spoofed your e-mail address, that is they altered the 
headers on a malicious message to make it look like it came from you 
-- even though it didn't.  It happened to several people, on several 
lists -- including me.  It also happened on some other 
blindness-related lists.  Just ignore it, the person is just trying 
to stir things up.

Dave

At 11:40 PM 2/22/2010, you wrote:
>I don't know where this post came from!  It was not me!  I am Beth 
>Kats and it had my address, but I did n't write it.  I thought it 
>was pretty shocking when I read this.
>Beth
>
>--
>Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
>www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.




From TEOlivero at nfb.org  Sun Feb 28 01:57:23 2010
From: TEOlivero at nfb.org (Olivero,
	Treva)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:57:23 -0600
Subject: [Faith-talk] Braille Reading Pals Club
Message-ID: <auto-000141766979@mailfront1.g2host.com>


National Federation of the Blind
Braille Reading Pals Club

Registration is now open for the New Year beginning April 1, 2010.

The Braille Reading Pals Club is an early literacy program that 
encourages parents to read daily with their blind or low-vision child 
(ages infant to seven).
Participating club members will receive:
    *  A print-Braille book and a plush reading pal
    * Monthly parent e-newsletter promoting tips for early Braille literacy
    * Quarterly Braille activity sheets for young children
    * Braille birthday cards for child participants
    * Access to a network of resources devoted to serving parents of 
blind children
Mission of the Program
    * Introduce young children and their families to Braille
    * Provide parents literacy strategies to use with their children
    * Direct parents to essential resources for promoting success for 
their young blind children
    * Help parents promote early literacy skills, a love of reading, 
and a positive attitude about Braille through daily reading with 
their blind children

To learn more about this exciting program, or to register, please 
visit <http://www.nfb.org/readingpals>www.nfb.org/readingpals, or 
call (410) 659-9314, ext. 2295.

Cosponsored by the National Organization of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC)




