[Faith-talk] Fwd: Today's Turning Point with David Jeremiah

Sat Jan 12 12:59:25 CST 2008

Joseph,

I'm glad God has reached you.  

"And this is my prayer:  that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, filled withthe fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ - to the glory and praise of God."  Philippians 1:9-11

Warmly,
Lisa> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 04:10:01 -0800> From: tjosephcarter at gmail.com> To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fwd: Today's Turning Point with David Jeremiah> > Lisa,> > A good teacher is worth their weight in gold. I hope I'm a good teacher,> because given the price of gold per ounce right now, ... *grin*> > Yes, I wrote software. Nothing of significance to most people on this> list, but that's just as well. I don't own any of that work, my former> employers do. They claim ownership also of the ideas I came up with while> I worked there, and in some cases both before and after I was hired for a> period of time. It's really a lousy industry to work in.> > I've seen some of those so-called progressive Catholic churches, and I> would not generally describe them as Catholic. In fact, some of them are> run by people who are probably have a lot to answer for because of the> schism they've created.> > It seems to me that you weren't educated very well as a child. For one> thing, it seems nobody ever told you what the repetitive prayers were all> about and why we do that. One would think that would be a major question> in catechism class and easily answered! It's a form of meditation, one> that I have not mastered I'm not ashamed to admit. The prayers become an> automatic process (as is obvious if you listen to someone pray them who> has been doing it for forty years), and they form a backdrop for thinking> about important events in the gospels. There are fifteen of them, and you> take them five at a time on different days.> > I've heard some wonderful prayers delivered on the spot. They have been> eloquent and full of wonder, love, and a deep desire to glorify God. And> then there are my own prayers. To hear them, you would say they are> lacking in all of these qualities by comparison. And yet, I know that my> prayers are welcome and pleasing to God, even though I'm not as good at it> as others might be. The best prayers are the ones that come from your> heart, no matter how they sound. I am surprised that anyone would have> let you believe that you should only pray certain things at certain times> and with certain words. More prayer cannot hurt, ever.> > The mass has changed a little over time, but it is still essentially the> same mass. Most of the time, they will actually speak English now, and> there is a whole generation of Catholics who basically don't know any> significant bit of Latin. The older generation laments this at times, and> priests have told me they sometimes encounter older people in hospitals> who don't speak any English, but whose faces light up when the priests> pray for them in Latin, because they're old enough to know those prayers.> > Another thing that is different today is that the priest stands facing the> congregation, so you can see what he is doing. There were certain> advantages to having the priest and the congregation facing the same> direction, but it didn't hurt anything to have the priest facing the> people so they could see and be more active participants in the mass.> > The result is better overall, I think. The point always was that the mass> is something we do together, but it's easier to do that when you know what> is being said, and the people doing the talking are actually facing you> when they do it. *grin*> > Another probably fair criticism of Catholicism is that too many of us> don't know our scripture. We go to mass and have it read to us, but we> can, and we should take the time to read the Bible on days other than> Sunday. Gone are the days when most people could not read, and today> there are other ways to access the Bible even if you cannot read.> > It just hadn't been seen as a priority for most people, since they could> just go to mass every day before work or during their lunch break and have> portions of the Bible read to them. (And if you do this every day for> about three years, you'll pretty much have heard the whole thing!) Of> course, you're only expected to attend mass once a week, and many do it> only twice a year. They don't know what they're missing.> > A good way to think about all of the rituals involved is probably to think> of it as a protocol. When a diplomatic envoy approaches the leader of a> nation, there are certain protocols that happen. It's all very formal and> specific, but we do it because the people involved are very important and> their stations demand a certain level of respect. How much more important> is our Heavenly Father, the maker of Heaven and the Earth? Or the> eternally begotten Son of the Father who became man and died that our sins> may be forgiven? Or the Holy Spirit who remains with us and in us to help> and guide us? We're talking about God here--who could be more important> and more deserving of our respect?> > The trick is to remember what all the ritual is about. Kongzi (Confucius)> spoke to his students about some who practiced a ritual involving a> special cup called a gu. Roughly, he said, "A gu that is not a gu. Is it> really a gu?" After scratching my head a moment, I realized what he meant> by that. If the ritual has no meaning, the gu is just a cup. Likewise,> if those rituals Catholics practice lose their meaning to practitioners,> they are just so many words, songs, and chants. Sadly, that is the case> for too many--and it happens to people of every denomination. Kongzi> suggests the problem spreads far beyond Christianity.> > The only defense against this I can think of for a Christian is to know> and love God. One who does will find that the other things the Bible> tells us to do are not out of reach, and are really what we want to do> anyway, if we stop to think about it. How can we know God except through> the scriptures and prayer? Jesus' own words are there so that we may> understand. The Gospels, the letters, the Hebrew scriptures, prophecies,> and history.. It's all there to help us build that crucial relationship> so that when the time comes, we may have the chance to hear, "Well done,> my good and faithful servant," rather than, "I never knew you."> > If denominations are less important than what is on our hearts, I missed> an early chance to begin developing that relationship. I hardened my> heart and refused to accept him after that, but he found a way to reach> me, and now I know what I was missing. In the end, that we bring as many> people home with us as possible is all that's going to matter. (I know> this because I skipped ahead to see who wins.)> > Would you be surprised to learn that my seldom used first name is Thomas?> This doesn't surprise many Christians. (And IMO, Saint Thomas needs a new> publicist! Doubting indeed--as if the others never doubted? He was the> only one to respond when he saw for himself, "My Lord and my God!" It is> probably no wonder that I hear those words in my mind at the consecration> of the bread and wine.) Truly, I did not believe until I saw the proof I> could not deny. And truly, there is no longer any doubt in my mind. I'm> still working on the saint thing though--I'm pretty sure I am in no> immediate danger of being classified as saintly.> > I'll be in school until June 2009 for sure. Which reminds me, I have like> six chapters to read between now and Tuesday, so I'd best be sleeping now> before it gets any later. *grin*> > Joseph> > On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:48:52PM -0700, Lisa Felix wrote:> > Hello Joseph,> >  > > That's wonderful that you are studying special education.  I believe there is a high need for people in that area, and the Lord knows that we need people who are not abusive in that area as well.  I seen far too much abuse when it comes to special education educators.  Sadly, but true.> >  > > So preciously you were in the tech industry.  I'm guessing you mean through that elaborate description, that you created software? > >  > > Your description of your experience with Catholicism is quite different than mine.  What type of Catholic Church are you going to, if I may ask? Roman Catholic?  Or, one of those newer modern churches?  I forget what they're called.  My mother began going to one of the modernized catholic churches before she died.  We attended a Roman Catholic church, though, when I was young.  I remember "holy water", "kneeling before entering the pew", praying certain prayers repetitively, and confessing to a priest.  I just felt a quite a young age, LOL! that I should be able to talk with Jesus whenever I wanted, and say whatever was on my heart to say when talking with him.  I didn't like having a middle man.  I feel the same till this day.  That is why I attend a non-denominational church where the focus is understanding the bible, applying to our lives, and implementing what it says.  I don't mean disrespect for the Catholic Church in any way.  I'm glad to hear that the priest emphasizes a personal relationship with Jesus.  When I attended the Catholic Church, we were encouraged to build a personal relationship with the priest, who would speak on our behalf to God.  I just never thought that was appropriate.  It gave men too much power in my mind.  It still cracks me up because I was sooo young thinking such things, and even as an adult, I feel the same way.  I know Catholics, as well as other Christians of other denominations, including non-denominational, that go to church just to say that they do and have a "religion".  Then, I know others of all denominations, who actually have personal relationships with Christ. > >  > > Making Christ our Lord does not happen by just attending church and knowing in your mind what is right and true.  It also takes a heart knowledge and literally inviting Christ to be in our heart and be our Lord.> >  > > God can certainly work miracles in our lives, I've experienced that myself.  Maybe I'll share it my experiences one day.  God also answers prayer by saying "no".  I've experienced that, too.  All of this I'm sure you know.  I do enjoy discussing it. > >  > > I'm sorry you had bad experiences in other denominations.  How we respond to what happens to us is vitally important.  We can respond poorly, or we can respond with the power and wisdom of God, for we have the mind of Christ.  Wow!  That is a huge reminder to me!  Praise God.> >  > > How much longer do you have until your graduation?> >  > > May God bless your endeavors.> >  > > Warmly,> > Lisa> > _______________________________________________> Faith-talk mailing list> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk
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Joseph,

I'm glad God has reached you. 

"And this is my prayer:  that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, filled withthe fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ - to the glory and praise of God."  Philippians 1:9-11

Warmly,
Lisa
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 04:10:01 -0800
> From: tjosephcarter at gmail.com
> To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fwd: Today's Turning Point with David Jeremiah
>
> Lisa,
>
> A good teacher is worth their weight in gold. I hope I'm a good teacher,
> because given the price of gold per ounce right now, ... *grin*
>
> Yes, I wrote software. Nothing of significance to most people on this
> list, but that's just as well. I don't own any of that work, my former
> employers do. They claim ownership also of the ideas I came up with while
> I worked there, and in some cases both before and after I was hired for a
> period of time. It's really a lousy industry to work in.
>
> I've seen some of those so-called progressive Catholic churches, and I
> would not generally describe them as Catholic. In fact, some of them are
> run by people who are probably have a lot to answer for because of the
> schism they've created.
>
> It seems to me that you weren't educated very well as a child. For one
> thing, it seems nobody ever told you what the repetitive prayers were all
> about and why we do that. One would think that would be a major question
> in catechism class and easily answered! It's a form of meditation, one
> that I have not mastered I'm not ashamed to admit. The prayers become an
> automatic process (as is obvious if you listen to someone pray them who
> has been doing it for forty years), and they form a backdrop for thinking
> about important events in the gospels. There are fifteen of them, and you
> take them five at a time on different days.
>
> I've heard some wonderful prayers delivered on the spot. They have been
> eloquent and full of wonder, love, and a deep desire to glorify God. And
> then there are my own prayers. To hear them, you would say they are
> lacking in all of these qualities by comparison. And yet, I know that my
> prayers are welcome and pleasing to God, even though I'm not as good at it
> as others might be. The best prayers are the ones that come from your
> heart, no matter how they sound. I am surprised that anyone would have
> let you believe that you should only pray certain things at certain times
> and with certain words. More prayer cannot hurt, ever.
>
> The mass has changed a little over time, but it is still essentially the
> same mass. Most of the time, they will actually speak English now, and
> there is a whole generation of Catholics who basically don't know any
> significant bit of Latin. The older generation laments this at times, and
> priests have told me they sometimes encounter older people in hospitals
> who don't speak any English, but whose faces light up when the priests
> pray for them in Latin, because they're old enough to know those prayers.
>
> Another thing that is different today is that the priest stands facing the
> congregation, so you can see what he is doing. There were certain
> advantages to having the priest and the congregation facing the same
> direction, but it didn't hurt anything to have the priest facing the
> people so they could see and be more active participants in the mass.
>
> The result is better overall, I think. The point always was that the mass
> is something we do together, but it's easier to do that when you know what
> is being said, and the people doing the talking are actually facing you
> when they do it. *grin*
>
> Another probably fair criticism of Catholicism is that too many of us
> don't know our scripture. We go to mass and have it read to us, but we
> can, and we should take the time to read the Bible on days other than
> Sunday. Gone are the days when most people could not read, and today
> there are other ways to access the Bible even if you cannot read.
>
> It just hadn't been seen as a priority for most people, since they could
> just go to mass every day before work or during their lunch break and have
> portions of the Bible read to them. (And if you do this every day for
> about three years, you'll pretty much have heard the whole thing!) Of
> course, you're only expected to attend mass once a week, and many do it
> only twice a year. They don't know what they're missing.
>
> A good way to think about all of the rituals involved is probably to think
> of it as a protocol. When a diplomatic envoy approaches the leader of a
> nation, there are certain protocols that happen. It's all very formal and
> specific, but we do it because the people involved are very important and
> their stations demand a certain level of respect. How much more important
> is our Heavenly Father, the maker of Heaven and the Earth? Or the
> eternally begotten Son of the Father who became man and died that our sins
> may be forgiven? Or the Holy Spirit who remains with us and in us to help
> and guide us? We're talking about God here--who could be more important
> and more deserving of our respect?
>
> The trick is to remember what all the ritual is about. Kongzi (Confucius)
> spoke to his students about some who practiced a ritual involving a
> special cup called a gu. Roughly, he said, "A gu that is not a gu. Is it
> really a gu?" After scratching my head a moment, I realized what he meant
> by that. If the ritual has no meaning, the gu is just a cup. Likewise,
> if those rituals Catholics practice lose their meaning to practitioners,
> they are just so many words, songs, and chants. Sadly, that is the case
> for too many--and it happens to people of every denomination. Kongzi
> suggests the problem spreads far beyond Christianity.
>
> The only defense against this I can think of for a Christian is to know
> and love God. One who does will find that the other things the Bible
> tells us to do are not out of reach, and are really what we want to do
> anyway, if we stop to think about it. How can we know God except through
> the scriptures and prayer? Jesus' own words are there so that we may
> understand. The Gospels, the letters, the Hebrew scriptures, prophecies,
> and history.. It's all there to help us build that crucial relationship
> so that when the time comes, we may have the chance to hear, "Well done,
> my good and faithful servant," rather than, "I never knew you."
>
> If denominations are less important than what is on our hearts, I missed
> an early chance to begin developing that relationship. I hardened my
> heart and refused to accept him after that, but he found a way to reach
> me, and now I know what I was missing. In the end, that we bring as many
> people home with us as possible is all that's going to matter. (I know
> this because I skipped ahead to see who wins.)
>
> Would you be surprised to learn that my seldom used first name is Thomas?
> This doesn't surprise many Christians. (And IMO, Saint Thomas needs a new
> publicist! Doubting indeed--as if the others never doubted? He was the
> only one to respond when he saw for himself, "My Lord and my God!" It is
> probably no wonder that I hear those words in my mind at the consecration
> of the bread and wine.) Truly, I did not believe until I saw the proof I
> could not deny. And truly, there is no longer any doubt in my mind. I'm
> still working on the saint thing though--I'm pretty sure I am in no
> immediate danger of being classified as saintly.
>
> I'll be in school until June 2009 for sure. Which reminds me, I have like
> six chapters to read between now and Tuesday, so I'd best be sleeping now
> before it gets any later. *grin*
>
> Joseph
>
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:48:52PM -0700, Lisa Felix wrote:
> > Hello Joseph,
> >  
> > That's wonderful that you are studying special education.  I believe there is a high need for people in that area, and the Lord knows that we need people who are not abusive in that area as well.  I seen far too much abuse when it comes to special education educators.  Sadly, but true.
> >  
> > So preciously you were in the tech industry.  I'm guessing you mean through that elaborate description, that you created software? 
> >  
> > Your description of your experience with Catholicism is quite different than mine.  What type of Catholic Church are you going to, if I may ask? Roman Catholic?  Or, one of those newer modern churches?  I forget what they're called.  My mother began going to one of the modernized catholic churches before she died.  We attended a Roman Catholic church, though, when I was young.  I remember "holy water", "kneeling before entering the pew", praying certain prayers repetitively, and confessing to a priest.  I just felt a quite a young age, LOL! that I should be able to talk with Jesus whenever I wanted, and say whatever was on my heart to say when talking with him.  I didn't like having a middle man.  I feel the same till this day.  That is why I attend a non-denominational church where the focus is understanding the bible, applying to our lives, and implementing what it says.  I don't mean disrespect for the Catholic Church in any way.  I'm glad to hear that the priest emphasizes a personal relationship with Jesus.  When I attended the Catholic Church, we were encouraged to build a personal relationship with the priest, who would speak on our behalf to God.  I just never thought that was appropriate.  It gave men too much power in my mind.  It still cracks me up because I was sooo young thinking such things, and even as an adult, I feel the same way.  I know Catholics, as well as other Christians of other denominations, including non-denominational, that go to church just to say that they do and have a "religion".  Then, I know others of all denominations, who actually have personal relationships with Christ. 
> >  
> > Making Christ our Lord does not happen by just attending church and knowing in your mind what is right and true.  It also takes a heart knowledge and literally inviting Christ to be in our heart and be our Lord.
> >  
> > God can certainly work miracles in our lives, I've experienced that myself.  Maybe I'll share it my experiences one day.  God also answers prayer by saying "no".  I've experienced that, too.  All of this I'm sure you know.  I do enjoy discussing it. 
> >  
> > I'm sorry you had bad experiences in other denominations.  How we respond to what happens to us is vitally important.  We can respond poorly, or we can respond with the power and wisdom of God, for we have the mind of Christ.  Wow!  That is a huge reminder to me!  Praise God.
> >  
> > How much longer do you have until your graduation?
> >  
> > May God bless your endeavors.
> >  
> > Warmly,
> > Lisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_012008 Start now!