[Faith-talk] Blind Catholics

[T. Joseph Carter]

Vincent,

In the United States, we have a lot of so-called "Cafeteria Catholics" who
take what they want and only what they want.  I think they'll find that to
have been a mistake at some point.

Without getting into the long discussion on that issue, I'll just agree
with you that there are a lot of people who miss the point.  Some
passively reject those teachings of the Church interfere with their
favorite sins.  Some react to this former group and become rigidly
dogmatic without bothering to understand the doctrines they live by.  This
was the mistake of the Pharisees.  Still others make a great show of
piousness and holiness when in Church, but go out into the world and live
live very sinful lives.  Again, this was the tassel-flappers' mistake.

In order to live correctly according to one's faith, we must first
understand what the doctrines of faith are.  It's a little easier for
Catholics, particularly today, because we have resources such as the CCC
which spell it out for us with references so we can look it up.  Then we
must live what we understand, to the best of our ability and conscience.

It's interesting that I have found common threads in just about every
religion, faith, and sect I have looked at.  All of them call upon the
faithful to take an active part in changing the world.  With one notable
exception (Scientology), the doctrine of every faith seems to call upon us
all to leave the world a better place than we found it.  Sadly, human
beings sometimes make the mistaken assumption that what is better for them
personally is better for the world.  It's happened in many if not all
faiths at one point or another.  Down that road lies the most evil men
have ever done.

Preventing that is why I believe we must each act according to our
conscience.  Failing to do so could lead to it happening again.

Joseph


On Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 06:02:54PM -0500, Vincent Fugate wrote:
> 	If there not united then they don't understand what it means to be
> Catholic!
> 
> 	I'm not so sure I understand what you are trying to say here in this
> post.  A person's religious beliefs or lack of beliefs does affect their own
> world view, opinions, and ethics.  You may as well say keep Jesus out also.
> 
> 
> 	First I would point out that without a belief in the one true God,
> truth becomes relative, and is open to one's own personal opinion.  Thus the
> term, "What works for me may not work for you, but that does not make it
> wrong."    This very liberal phrase of course is wrong and has never worked
> in history.
> 
> I do not see how a person can say that religion does not belong in the
> public arena when the very core of human history shows as far back as we can
> go for the search and desire for the Almighty God.  History shows that
> humanity has always been searching for something greater than there selves,
> and we see that in the Holy Bible and other ancient sources as well.
> 
> 	Second, there has to be a presupposition for an authority to base
> truth on else it becomes ambiguous, relative, and really holds no value, or
> even reason to believe unless you use force, Such as communism does.
> 
> 	Truth by its very essence is not an opinion, but that's what the
> secular world wants you to believe, that truth is relative, and remember the
> secular world is ruled by the devil.  The Pope has never taught to vote
> based on your beliefs, but to vote on what is right.  Catholics vote no on
> homosexuality, abortion, and anything else which the Bible says is wrong.  
> 
> 	I for one do believe in God, and I believe his son, Jesus, is the
> Word of God made flesh (John 1), and he came into the world to show us the
> Truth, the right way to live, and to give us freedom from the life of sin
> and darkness (John 3:16.  However, those who reject Christ are of darkness
> (John 3:20), and these are the people who reject the Word of God and either
> try to twist up its meaning, or deny Christ all together.
> 
> 	As Paul says in Romans 1, we know that there is a God through
> nature, and that there is also a natural law.  It is only when we reject God
> and His truth that God gives us over into our selfish desires.  It is this
> rejection of God that causes the confusion you described.  It is sin and
> pride, and people's blatant distrust of God and disobedience!
> 
> 	In other words, the Word of God, the Bible, makes it very clear what
> the truth is in everything for all time.  "There is nothing new under the
> sun."  The only time things are not clear, and people argue over things is
> because of their own sin, or pride that they are giving into.  Look at the
> First Epistle to the Corinthians written by Paul.  One of their members was
> committing incest and there were all kinds of other sinful acts going on
> also.
> 
> 	People were saying that since they were saved by grace that they
> could do whatever they want, and there were many other divisions also.  
> 
> All this was a result of sin defined by and made known by the teachings and
> traditions of the Church which Paul refers to in this letter, and he also
> confronts pride, and the result of bringing "liberal" ideas into the church.
> 
> 	Are we no different today?  Or, have we somehow evolved above and
> beyond what people were 2000 years ago?  Do we not have the same desires,
> fears, worries, needs, and emotional make up as they did 2000 years ago, or
> are we somehow better than the believers 2000 years ago?  Is there some type
> of new Theology or Philosophy now that supersedes all of history and the
> Bible so much that the Holy Bible and sacred tradition no longer matter? 
> 
> 	I would say not, and I dare you to name something that is not some
> way already been dealt with in the Bible, and sacred tradition that is not
> made abundantly clear as to what the answer is.
> 
> 	As for knowing what the Catholic Church teaches all you need to do
> is study the Bible, the Catechism, and whatever you want to know about what
> the Pope has been saying and teaching is on the Vatican website.  Also,
> there are many good resources on ewtn.com, and they have internet T.V. and
> radio.  Or, just study the whole Bible for once if you have not already.
> The Church does not teach anything new that cannot be supported by the
> Bible.   
> 
> 	The only reason there is division among Catholics is the same
> reasoned for Protestants also, we are not accepting the teachings of the
> Word of God found in scripture, and sacred tradition.  This is another thing
> Paul points out in his Epistle to the Corinthians, that there is to be "no"
> division among anyone in the church.  There is one faith, one baptism, and
> one body which are the Church with Christ as the head of the Church.  See
> the letter to the Ephesians for more on how many churches there are, and how
> were to live in this world. 
> 
> 	We Christians today are no different than they were back in the days
> of Paul.
> 
> 	Furthermore, we are commanded by the Apostles to point out when
> something is sin.  For example, in the Epistle of Paul to the Ephesians,
> Paul once again confronts sin and division in the church and also points out
> that we should not let people just do whatever they want and say nothing
> (Ephesians 5:11).  
> 
> 	Now many people now a day's say the Bible is too hard to understand,
> and they try to twist it's meaning, or claim that it's really not true.
> That's ridiculous, all one has to do is study the early church fathers and
> see how literally they took the teachings of Christ and the first Apostles.
> Take John chapter six for example, or do you think Jesus really did not mean
> what he said, and the Eucharist really isn't that big of a deal, and not
> necessary for salvation?
> 
> 	Moreover, since when was it ever said by the Church and Jesus that
> religion should not be in the public arena?  The early believers died for
> their beliefs, and remember many of them were called atheists because they
> did not believe in the right gods.   
> 
> Read Matthew chapters 5 through 7 about the Sermon on the Mount.  Jesus says
> you're going to be persecuted for living his way, and he clarifies that
> elsewhere.  That sure does not sound like we should be idle and keep
> religion behind closed doors.  Jesus also says to "seek first the kingdom of
> God."  I think he really meant that because the Apostle Paul says that again
> in his letter to the Romans.  It sure does not sound like religion is
> something you can separate from anything and just put in a box for safe
> keeping for a later time if you're going to live for and follow Christ.
> 
> 	However, you could put religion aside, but then you're going to have
> the problem that many European countries have been having.  
> 
> 	Take Italy for example.  There leaders are pretty much throwing
> religion out the window and are promoting Secular Humanism to the point that
> they are forcing it on people and people are even getting arrested for not
> be in PC in certain areas.  Think it can't happen in America?  Guess what it
> has, and to one of our own Priests for speaking out against homosexuality.
> Many people in America are even being arrested during silent protests
> against abortion because of the secular PC police.
> 
> 	These Secular Humanists are not basing their beliefs on religion and
> most of them have an atheistic agenda.  All you need to do is listen to the
> news, and Vatican radio to know all of this.
> 
> 	But guess who is really the only one speaking out against these
> crimes against the truth in Italy; it's our own Holy Father.  Because he
> grew up in a country that went down the dark path of communism and that is
> what he is seeing happening today all over the world.
> 
> 	The reason we have the problems in the world today is because they
> do not know Christ because they have rejected him.  Unfortunately it seems
> that many Christians are starting to do that today. 
> 
> 	To reject Christ is to reject truth, because Jesus Christ is the
> truth, the way, and the life!  If are government is not founded on the Word
> of God then this country truly is in its last day's just like all other
> civilizations that have rejected God in the past.