[Faith-talk] Blind Catholics
Vincent Fugate
vincent2872 at sbcglobal.net
Thu Feb 7 17:02:54 CST 2008
If there not united then they don't understand what it means to be
Catholic!
I'm not so sure I understand what you are trying to say here in this
post. A person's religious beliefs or lack of beliefs does affect their own
world view, opinions, and ethics. You may as well say keep Jesus out also.
First I would point out that without a belief in the one true God,
truth becomes relative, and is open to one's own personal opinion. Thus the
term, "What works for me may not work for you, but that does not make it
wrong." This very liberal phrase of course is wrong and has never worked
in history.
I do not see how a person can say that religion does not belong in the
public arena when the very core of human history shows as far back as we can
go for the search and desire for the Almighty God. History shows that
humanity has always been searching for something greater than there selves,
and we see that in the Holy Bible and other ancient sources as well.
Second, there has to be a presupposition for an authority to base
truth on else it becomes ambiguous, relative, and really holds no value, or
even reason to believe unless you use force, Such as communism does.
Truth by its very essence is not an opinion, but that's what the
secular world wants you to believe, that truth is relative, and remember the
secular world is ruled by the devil. The Pope has never taught to vote
based on your beliefs, but to vote on what is right. Catholics vote no on
homosexuality, abortion, and anything else which the Bible says is wrong.
I for one do believe in God, and I believe his son, Jesus, is the
Word of God made flesh (John 1), and he came into the world to show us the
Truth, the right way to live, and to give us freedom from the life of sin
and darkness (John 3:16. However, those who reject Christ are of darkness
(John 3:20), and these are the people who reject the Word of God and either
try to twist up its meaning, or deny Christ all together.
As Paul says in Romans 1, we know that there is a God through
nature, and that there is also a natural law. It is only when we reject God
and His truth that God gives us over into our selfish desires. It is this
rejection of God that causes the confusion you described. It is sin and
pride, and people's blatant distrust of God and disobedience!
In other words, the Word of God, the Bible, makes it very clear what
the truth is in everything for all time. "There is nothing new under the
sun." The only time things are not clear, and people argue over things is
because of their own sin, or pride that they are giving into. Look at the
First Epistle to the Corinthians written by Paul. One of their members was
committing incest and there were all kinds of other sinful acts going on
also.
People were saying that since they were saved by grace that they
could do whatever they want, and there were many other divisions also.
All this was a result of sin defined by and made known by the teachings and
traditions of the Church which Paul refers to in this letter, and he also
confronts pride, and the result of bringing "liberal" ideas into the church.
Are we no different today? Or, have we somehow evolved above and
beyond what people were 2000 years ago? Do we not have the same desires,
fears, worries, needs, and emotional make up as they did 2000 years ago, or
are we somehow better than the believers 2000 years ago? Is there some type
of new Theology or Philosophy now that supersedes all of history and the
Bible so much that the Holy Bible and sacred tradition no longer matter?
I would say not, and I dare you to name something that is not some
way already been dealt with in the Bible, and sacred tradition that is not
made abundantly clear as to what the answer is.
As for knowing what the Catholic Church teaches all you need to do
is study the Bible, the Catechism, and whatever you want to know about what
the Pope has been saying and teaching is on the Vatican website. Also,
there are many good resources on ewtn.com, and they have internet T.V. and
radio. Or, just study the whole Bible for once if you have not already.
The Church does not teach anything new that cannot be supported by the
Bible.
The only reason there is division among Catholics is the same
reasoned for Protestants also, we are not accepting the teachings of the
Word of God found in scripture, and sacred tradition. This is another thing
Paul points out in his Epistle to the Corinthians, that there is to be "no"
division among anyone in the church. There is one faith, one baptism, and
one body which are the Church with Christ as the head of the Church. See
the letter to the Ephesians for more on how many churches there are, and how
were to live in this world.
We Christians today are no different than they were back in the days
of Paul.
Furthermore, we are commanded by the Apostles to point out when
something is sin. For example, in the Epistle of Paul to the Ephesians,
Paul once again confronts sin and division in the church and also points out
that we should not let people just do whatever they want and say nothing
(Ephesians 5:11).
Now many people now a day's say the Bible is too hard to understand,
and they try to twist it's meaning, or claim that it's really not true.
That's ridiculous, all one has to do is study the early church fathers and
see how literally they took the teachings of Christ and the first Apostles.
Take John chapter six for example, or do you think Jesus really did not mean
what he said, and the Eucharist really isn't that big of a deal, and not
necessary for salvation?
Moreover, since when was it ever said by the Church and Jesus that
religion should not be in the public arena? The early believers died for
their beliefs, and remember many of them were called atheists because they
did not believe in the right gods.
Read Matthew chapters 5 through 7 about the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus says
you're going to be persecuted for living his way, and he clarifies that
elsewhere. That sure does not sound like we should be idle and keep
religion behind closed doors. Jesus also says to "seek first the kingdom of
God." I think he really meant that because the Apostle Paul says that again
in his letter to the Romans. It sure does not sound like religion is
something you can separate from anything and just put in a box for safe
keeping for a later time if you're going to live for and follow Christ.
However, you could put religion aside, but then you're going to have
the problem that many European countries have been having.
Take Italy for example. There leaders are pretty much throwing
religion out the window and are promoting Secular Humanism to the point that
they are forcing it on people and people are even getting arrested for not
be in PC in certain areas. Think it can't happen in America? Guess what it
has, and to one of our own Priests for speaking out against homosexuality.
Many people in America are even being arrested during silent protests
against abortion because of the secular PC police.
These Secular Humanists are not basing their beliefs on religion and
most of them have an atheistic agenda. All you need to do is listen to the
news, and Vatican radio to know all of this.
But guess who is really the only one speaking out against these
crimes against the truth in Italy; it's our own Holy Father. Because he
grew up in a country that went down the dark path of communism and that is
what he is seeing happening today all over the world.
The reason we have the problems in the world today is because they
do not know Christ because they have rejected him. Unfortunately it seems
that many Christians are starting to do that today.
To reject Christ is to reject truth, because Jesus Christ is the
truth, the way, and the life! If are government is not founded on the Word
of God then this country truly is in its last day's just like all other
civilizations that have rejected God in the past.
-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 5:19 PM
To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blind Catholics
Beth,
I don't have much to add except to say that those who self-identify as
"Catholic" are far from united on most any front, including abortion, gay
marriage, infant baptism, or even on the authority of the pope! Granted,
Catholic teaching has a stand on all of these things (or it's supposed to
anyway), but the disparity observed makes it sometimes really hard to
judge. It's also worth noting that not everything that comes from someone
in the Vatican is necessarily from the pope, either.
It is for that reason I believe it is important to keep religion out of
civil matters and civil matters out of religion. If a civil matter comes
up for debate or election, we are each called upon to vote our conscience,
informed of the facts, and based on our beliefs.
As human beings, we're bound to get it wrong at some point. With the aid
of secular society hostile to both Christians and their morality, we're
sure to. Even when we're trying to do what we believe is right, it can
sometimes go very wrong. If you--and I'm not saying you do or do not--are
of the opinion that same-sex attraction is somehow wrong, regardless of
where it comes from, you may ask yourself what to do about it.
Society is going to give you two extreme answers, and probably a whole
bunch in between, and probably none of them good. The first extreme
answer society will offer is that the problem is you for actually
believing that sex is something men and women do--although I'm pretty sure
by sixth grade science textbook suggests a flaw in that. The other
extreme answer is to persecute these people who are trying to corrupt our
good, clean society (which ain't exactly either one) with their unnatural
behavior..
You see what I mean? Neither of those are good answers. When faced with
something like that, the best we can do is try not to interfere with their
right to do what we know is wrong, without cooperating in it, and without
resorting to sin ourselves to combat sin. Sometimes balancing all of that
at the same time can be really, really hard. The same problem exists any
time we disagree with society about what is wrong.
Joseph
On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 09:19:20AM -0500, Beth wrote:
> Thanks, Vincent. First of all, have you ever been to a Catholic
> school or do your kids go to Catholic school? What are the attitudes
> that the teachers have towards the fact that you are blind? What do
> you tell the teachers? How do the kids get to school? As for my
> beliefs and the fact that I'm liberal, first off, though I'm pro life,
> I do not believe in infant Baptisms because the baby is a baby and
> can't speak for itself. That's just unfair for the baby because first
> of all, it's like forcing a child into a belief system that the child
> doesn't want or doesn't feel she or he can tolerate. Not that this is
> bad on all sides, but I just don't like the idea. I was infant
> Baptized so I don't think Baptizing in a Baptist church would be along
> the lines of my family's faith. Second, I believe in the idea of gay
> marriage. Okay, I might have gone too far, but Catholics I think are
> just ... well, I won't say. But like all Christians, Catholics go
> along with the Conservative belief that gays shouldn't marry because
> it's sodomy, but there's a complete definition that I have of sodomy.
> Then, there's more to it than that. I don't want to make this too
> controversial. Thanks for putting up with me for a few minutes.
> Beth
>
> On 2/5/08, Jacob Struiksma <lawnmower84 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I am catholic and live in the greater Seattle Washington state area
> > from
> > Jacob Struiksma
> > jacobstruiksma at gmail.com
> > lawnmower84 at hotmail.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "T. Joseph Carter" <tjosephcarter at gmail.com>
> > To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> > <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 10:36 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Blind Catholics
> >
> >
> > Vincent,
> >
> > There are a few of us hiding around here somewhere.
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 08:01:50PM -0500, Vincent Fugate wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > My name is Vincent Fugate, and I'm in Ohio. I was just wondering if
> > > there were any other Catholics still on the list besides myself. If
so,
> > > could you email me at vincent2872 at sbcglobal.net, or just respond to me
on
> > > the list.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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