[Dtb-talk] No $330.00 player for me,

Mon Nov 26 10:52:08 CST 2007

There is a difference between making a website, which is like a  
physical store, accessible and making consumer products, like a washer  
or a stove sold in a store accessible. It can and has been argued the  
websites are required to be accessible just as stores are so required.  
It has never as far as I have been aware anyway, been argued that the  
product sold by such stores are required under the ADA to be accessible.

Greg Kearney
535 S. Jackson St.
Casper, Wyoming 82601
307-224-4022
gkearney at gmail.com

On Nov 26, 2007, at 9:35 AM, Valerie Lewis wrote:

> If more and more companies are making their products available  
> online, then
> these products are going to need to be accessible to people with
> disabilities. Target is a good starting example of this issue.
>
> People with disabilities need to understand and fight for the things  
> they
> are forced to pay for.
>
> Overdrive books is one of the few downloadable services that I have  
> heard is
> comfortably usable by a person who uses a screen reader.
>
> Valerie
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:dtb-talk- 
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Greg Kearney
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:29 AM
> To: Discussion of Digital Talking Books
> Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] No $330.00 player for me,
>
> IT's an interesting idea that consumer product fall under the ADA. I
> do not believe such has been either asserted or tested in court  
> however.
>
> Greg Kearney
> 535 S. Jackson St.
> Casper, Wyoming 82601
> 307-224-4022
> gkearney at gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Nov 26, 2007, at 9:14 AM, Valerie Lewis wrote:
>
>> Telecommunication devices.
>>
>> Additionally, whether or not the law specifically states such and  
>> such
>> device. The notion of the ADA is that people with disabilities
>> should have
>> the same access as everyone else.
>>
>> Valerie
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:dtb-talk-
>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of David B Andrews
>> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:59 AM
>> To: dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] No $330.00 player for me,
>>
>> There is no law that says that consumer electronics products have to
>> be accessible.  There are rules for cell phones, but not other
>> devices.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> David Andrews
>> Chief Technology Officer
>> Minnesota State Services for the Blind
>> 2200 University Ave. W., #240
>> St. Paul, MN  55114-1840
>> (651) 642-0513  Office
>> (612) 730-7931  Cell
>> (651) 649-5927  Fax
>>
>>
>>>>> vlewis at suffolk.lib.ny.us 11/26/2007 9:07 AM >>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> The problem is not whether or not companies will have access to the
>> NLS
>> collection. The problem is whether or not all of these companies
>> will stop
>> breaking the law and begin to make products that are accessible to
>> all. All
>> of these companies have the ability to produce accessible products.
>> They
>> choose not to. This forces people with disabilities to seek
>> alternaitve and
>> most times inferior options.
>>
>> Valerie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 9:27 AM
>> To: Discussion of Digital Talking Books; Lynn Evans
>> Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] No $330.00 player for me,
>>
>> Greg,
>>
>> Aren't we getting the cart ahead of the horse here?  We don't
>> really know
>> what policy there is for providing access to decrypting NLS books,
>> if one
>> has even been
>> completely established yet.  Do you know for certain that apple is
>> ready to
>> make the I Pod completely accessible and also read NLS books if
>> they only
>> received the
>> go-ahead from NLS?  There is way too much speculation to start
>> talking about
>> going to congress, or even to get all upset about since we really
>> don't know
>> what
>> policies exist and whether Apple or any other manufacturer is even
>> interested at this point.  Certainly we have seen firmware updates
>> to the I
>> Pod that make it more
>> accessible, and presumably such an update could be written to play
>> NLS
>> books, but even that gets dangerously close to software rather
>> than
>> hardware.  In short,
>> unless you or others have information that has not been published
>> here that
>> I have seen, we really don't know enough yet to make the sorts of
>> statements
>> that are
>> being made.
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Greg Kearney" <gkearney at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "Mary Beth Janes" <mjanes at apple.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 3:53 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] No $330.00 player for me,
>>
>>
>>> : Interesting. I suspect that policy, if it is the case, could run
>> into
>>> : some serious problems. It is one thing to say that you will not
>>> : support software players due to security concerns. It is quite
>> another
>>> : to say you will not authorize a given hardware device due to the
>> fact
>>> : that too many people might own one. Thus maintaing high hardware
>> costs
>>> : and a monopoly of manufacturers in perpetuity.
>>> :
>>> : I suspect congress, and the California delegation in particular,
>> would
>>> : not look kindly on such an approach. Perhaps it is time to let
>> some
>>> : members of congress know. Perhaps a bill instructing the NLS to
>>> : authorize all manufactures of devices access to the needed keys
>> is in
>>> : order to prevent them from picking and choosing who they will
>> permit
>>> : to profit from the sale of such devices is needed.
>>> :
>>> : I think the NLS need to decide here. Either only they build the
>>> : players and permit no one else to have the keys or the means to
>>> : authorize any players. Or they permit anyone, including mass
>> market
>>> : makers like Apple to build players and they then give them the
>> needed
>>> : information to authorizes such players for NLS patrons. Given
>> that
>>> : they have already decided to do the latter I do not see how they
>> can
>>> : tell others that such options are not open to them.
>>> :
>>> : Greg Kearney
>>> : 535 S. Jackson St.
>>> : Casper, Wyoming 82601
>>> : 307-224-4022
>>> : gkearney at gmail.com
>>> :
>>> :
>>> :
>>> : On Nov 25, 2007, at 10:23 PM, Wes Derby wrote:
>>> :
>>> : > Hello.
>>> : >
>>> : > I've been a lurker here for a while, but thought I'd throw in
>> my two
>>> : > cents
>>> : > on this one.
>>> : >
>>> : > Having spoken to someone from NLS during a conference a few
>> months
>>> : > back, I
>>> : > think Dan's statement is pretty accurate.  I inquired as to
>> whether
>>> : > the
>>> : > notetakers with on-board media players, such as the PACMate
>> and
>>> : > BrailleNote,
>>> : > might eventually be given the necessary rights and keys to
>> support
>>> : > the NLS
>>> : > digital talking books.  the person I spoke to admitted he
>> wasn't
>>> : > sure what a
>>> : > PACMate or BrailleNote was, but said that they do in fact want
>> to
>>> : > limit
>>> : > distribution to manufacturers/products that are primarily used
>> by NLS
>>> : > patrons.  This was as of last June, anyway...So don't expect
>> to see
>>> : > support
>>> : > for NLS books on an iPod or any other commercial device any
>> time in
>>> : > the
>>> : > near, or probably distant, future.
>>> : >
>>> : >
>>> : > ---
>>> : > Visit me on Myspace:
>>> : > http://www.myspace.com/wesderby
>>> : > Now, I actually remember to log in and check it!
>>> : >
>>> : > Check out CashCrate:
>> http://www.cashcrate.com/index.php?ref=230383
>>> : > It's free to join, and a great way to earn a few extra bucks.
>>> : >
>>> : >
>>> : > ----- Original Message -----
>>> : > From: "Dan Rossi" <dr25 at andrew.cmu.edu>
>>> : > To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books"
>> <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> : > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 7:53 AM
>>> : > Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] No $330.00 player for me,
>>> : >
>>> : >
>>> : >> I don't think the issue is a hardware manufacturer being able
>> to do a
>>> : >> firmware upgrade to a mainstream player to support NLS books.
>> I
>>> : >> think the
>>> : >> issue is the NLS wanting to play it pretty careful on just
>> who gets
>>> : >> licensed to support their books.
>>> : >>
>>> : >> The scenario I can cook up in my own active imagination is
>> that NLS
>>> : >> is
>>> : >> pretty sure there isn't going to be a rush of sighted folks
>>> : >> purchasing
>>> : >> something like the Stream and then attempting to download NLS
>> books
>>> : >> illegally.  However, if a number of mainstream products
>> supported NLS
>>> : >> books, there would be more incentive for non-NLS users to
>> attempt
>>> : >> to get
>>> : >> their hands on NLS books.  Thus, the fewer products
>> supporting the
>>> : >> NLS
>>> : >> format, the smaller the incentive for illegally obtaining
>> their
>>> : >> books.  A
>>> : >> bit of security through obscurity.  Not a great plan, but it
>> works,
>>> : >> and I
>>> : >> see it pretty often in the I.T. industry in general.
>>> : >>
>>> : >> --
>>> : >> Blue skies.
>>> : >> Dan Rossi
>>> : >> Carnegie Mellon University.
>>> : >> E-Mail: dr25 at andrew.cmu.edu
>>> : >> Tel: (412) 268-9081
>>> : >> _______________________________________________
>>> : >> Dtb-talk mailing list
>>> : >> Dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> : >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/dtb-talk
>>> : >>
>>> : >
>>> : >
>>> : > _______________________________________________
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>>> :
>>> : --
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>>
>>> 11/25/2007 4:24 PM
>>> :
>>> :
>>
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