[Blindtlk] [Electronics-talk] letter from ablindComcastcustomer; feedback wanted
Ron Poire
rpoire at comcast.net
Thu Feb 14 17:52:04 CST 2008
Hey Mike,
Right on.
Even though half of the features on the comcast website don't work for us,
like TV channel line-up, about the only thing one can reliably do, is read
news headlines and check e-mail.
I was able to set up my wife's e-mail account unassisted.
best,
Ron Poire
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [Electronics-talk] letter from
ablindComcastcustomer; feedback wanted
> Ray:
>
> All the affiliate presidents in the world or even the national office
> won't matter a tinker's damn to Comcast. The only thing that has the
> potential of working *might* be a lawsuit and Dr. Maurer has a Hobson's
> Choice to figure out whom and when to sue.
>
> I wouldn't even worry about the CAPTCHA thing because even the audio
> solution leaves out those who are hard-of-hearing. Were I you, I'd get
> a -- gasp -- *reader* and just fill out the bill the same way anyone
> else would do.
>
> Back to the suit thing: at least we (NFB) have a resolution on the
> subject which gives Dr. Maurer and the Board the grounds to officially
> act. I would be in favor of this. But what other worthy civil rights
> case might we lose by doing this? Is cable access more important than,
> say, protecting blind parents from harassment by state social services
> agencies? This is the sort of choice we must make.
>
> As for the bill, I use the pay-by-phone feature and I am not charged
> extra. Works like a champ! Computers aren't *everything!*
>
> I'm not saying this isn't a vexing problem -- I voted for the
> resolution. But on the scales of justice, I'd say this is relatively
> minor (and I'm not minimizing it for you). And heck: I figure most of
> the detritis on television isn't worth worrying about. It's like when
> one purchases a KNFB Reader: one quickly discovers that 98% of what is
> printed isn't worth reading!
>
> Actually, I believe that until cyberspace is declared a public
> accommodation under Title III of ADA -- in legislation, not regulations
> or court cases -- we will be fighting this battle.
>
> No one ever said blindness wasn't a nuisance!
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ray Foret jr
> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [Electronics-talk] letter from a
> blindComcastcustomer; feedback wanted
>
>
> All good points Steve. I'd certainly be willing to change the text to
> suit
> your suggestions. IN fact, I'd thought of putting in the suggestion
> of the
> audio alternative as a solution to the captcha. Perhaps, in light of
> this,
> removing the suggestion about eliminating the bill payment fee would
> be in
> order too. As to the set top box menus, I'd be very interested to
> hear what
> others may have to suggest for ways in which this could be handled.
> Here's
> another thing. What if Comcast just says "no" to all of this.
> Perhaps we
> might get all the NNFB state presidents to send letters or maybe even
> the
> national office. IF we all act individually, they would say "no" to
> us only
> at great risk to themselves.
>
> Sincerely yours,
> The Constantly Barefooted,
> Ray
> Home phone and fax:
> (985)360-3375
> E-mail:
> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> God bless President George W. Bush!
> God bless our troops!
> and God bless America
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> To: "Blind Talk" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "Discussion of accessible
> electronics and appliances" <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [Electronics-talk] letter from a blind
> Comcastcustomer; feedback wanted
>
>
> Ray,
>
> I am with you all the way regarding the CAPCHA blocks. One thing that
> helps
> us there is that we have a precedence and a possible solution, that
> being an
> audio
> alternative which at least helps most of us. My thought is that it's
> the
> CAPTCHA that is the problem, and the extra fee is only an issue if the
> CAPTCHA is not fixed. I
> don't think you should suggest, even indirectly, that waiving the fee
> is a
> suitable alternative to providing a way around the CAPTCHA.
>
> However, I am not so certain as to what the solution is to the HD
> recorder
> and menus. While I don't disagree that we should make progress on
> this and
> perhaps
> even try to get ComCast to help, I don't know if it is clear what you
> want
> the vice-president to do. There are some devices that we can
> apparently
> control pretty well
> through their network interfaces, and seeing if such a device could be
> made
> compatible with ComCast is one possible road. Maybe others here know
> of
> specific
> devices that could be mentioned.
>
> I also don't know that we have ever claimed that every company should
> provide braille bills. Again, it isn't clear to me why ComCast should
> provide one more than
> any other company. yes, some companies do and many don't. Would you
> need
> the braille bill if the CAPTCHA thing is resolved? My thought would
> be to
> concentrate on the first issue with him, and maybe include the second
> issue
> with a request that they perhaps assist us to find a solution.
>
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:46:27 -0600, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>
> >Hi,
>
> >I would like y'all's input on the following which is a draft of the
> letter
> >I'm intending to send to Rick Germano, the Vice President of Customer
> >service at Comcast.
>
>
> >Dear Mr. Germano:
>
> > I have been a customer of Comcast ever since January
> 24th,
> > 2008.
> >I am a totally blind customer. I use a screen reader to access my
> >computer.
>
> >For the most part, I have very much enjoyed your service. The
> courteous
> >attitude of nearly all of your customer service representatives
> speaks well
> >of their love of working for Comcast and of their strong commitment
> to try
> >to help their customers as much as it is in their power to do so.
> And yet,
> >Mr. Germano, I do have some serious problems with certain aspects of
> the
> >service which Comcast provides to its customers; and, particularly,
> the
> >lack
> >of knowledge of the special accommodations which are sometimes needed
> by
> >blind customers. This is the case regarding especially two key areas
> of
> >service; the totally inaccessible barrier put up by the use of the
> visual
> >captcha found when a customer signs up for the online bill payment
> service
> >and for Fancast, and the other is the lack of a convenient way to
> access
> >the
> >menu structure of the cable set top boxes and DVR units you provide.
>
> > Let me give you specific examples of exactly what I mean.
> I
> >went to:
>
> >www.comcast.com
>
> >to try to set up my online bill payment account. I was able to fill
> out
> >the
> >form for the most part, until I got to the bottom of the form. At
> the
> >point
> >in the form just before the "submit" button, there was the
> instruction,
> >"please type in the numbers you see in the image.". It is not
> possible for
> >screen reader programs such as the one I use to access and read the
> numbers
> >or special characters indicated; moreover, neither was there an audio
> >alternative which I could have used. I called and requested a
> special pin
> >to try to resolve this issue. I got the pin in the mail but it
> didn't
> >work.
> >I then called customer service. The lady who answered the phone was
> very
> >nice and she too tried to fill out the form using the information I'd
> given
> >her; but, she couldn't make it work either. Upon consulting her
> >supervisor,
> >she was informed (and she thus informed me) that customer service
> >representatives are NOT supposed to fill out those web forms because
> it
> >opens up liability issues which could potentially compromise
> security. I
> >then asked about paying my bill via telephone. I was informed there
> is a
> >$4.00 (Four dollar) charge for this service. Mr. Germano, this is
> >unacceptable! This practice and policy on the part of Comcast
> eeffectively
> >shuts out the blind customer from being able to independently pay
> bills and
> >otherwise transact business with your company!!! Why should the
> blind
> >customer be charged a fee and thus be penalized merely due to
> blindness and
> >inexcusable oversight on the part of Comcast policy makers who most
> likely
> >haven't taken us blind customers in to account? It is not just this
> matter
> >which I wish to communicate to you. There is another.
>
> > I have the Hi Definition DVR. When I first got it, I was
> > unable
> >to get any customer service representative to assist me with the
> >properoperation of the DVR. To his credit, the representative
> scheduled an
> >installer to come to my home for the purpose of helping me learn the
> menu
> >structure of the box. This memorize and press routine is, however,
> very
> >much a hit and miss solution. IF a wrong key is pressed, how does a
> blind
> >customer know where he is and thus how to navigate to where he needs
> to be
> >to find the menu item in which he is interested? For a second time,
> I
> >needed help. For a second time, I was offered the solution of an
> installer
> >to come to my home to help. Mr. Germano, I do not think it is an
> >acceptable
> >solution that an installer should have to come to the home of a blind
> >customer to get him or her out of a jam with a cable box menu
> structure;
> >especially when he may have much more important calls to make;
> whether they
> >are installation or trouble shooting calls.
>
> > Finally, Mr. Germano, I asked for my Comcast bill to be
> sent to
> >me in Braille. The customer service representative indicated that he
> >didn't
> >even know if this was possible or not. He told me this after I
> waited
> >nearly two hours on the phone. I am informed this is in fact
> possible.
>
> >Mr. Germano, I would like to remind you, or make you aware in case
> you
> >hadn't
> >heard, that the National Federation of the blind:
>
> >www.nfb.org
>
> >passed two resolutions at our 2007 national convention which deal
> very
> >directly with the issues I have raised. If you have any questions,
> please
> >feel free to contact me at my home number:
>
> >(985)360-3375
>
> >or my e-mail:
>
> >rforetjr at comcast.net
>
> >or Dr. Maurer, President of the National federation of the blind:
>
> >(410)659-9314
>
> >or by e-mail:
>
> >officeofthepresident at nfb.org
>
> >Here are the text of the relrelevant resolutions we passed regarding
> the
> >issues I raised:
>
> >RESOLUTION 2007-07
>
> >Regarding Elimination of Barriers Created by Online Security Measures
>
> >WHEREAS, an ever-increasing number of financial transactions are
> taking
> >place online, including bill paying, stock trading, account
> management, and
> >the
>
> >purchase of almost every imaginable kind of merchandise; and
>
> >WHEREAS, the vast sums of money now moving over the Internet tempt
> the
> >unscrupulous to develop schemes and scams to steal this money as
> Internet
> >users are
>
> >painfully aware from the all too familiar emails pretending to be
> from
> >various banks and institutions, which are not actually sent by them;
> and
>
> >WHEREAS, online merchants, financial institutions, and others
> recognize the
> >growth potential of the Web, but also realize that this growth will
> be
> >thwarted
>
> >if individuals are concerned about the security of their
> transactions; and
>
> >WHEREAS, for security reasons banks are rapidly adopting systems
> using the
> >method known as "visual CAPTCHA" because so far it cannot be
> circumvented
> >by
>
> >computerized means, but requires a human to enter numbers displayed
> on a
> >screen; and
>
> >WHEREAS, visual CAPTCHA is impossible for blind people to use, and
> online
> >entities are developing yet other systems, also impossible for blind
> people
> >to
>
> >use, such as credit and debit cards whose security numbers change
> visibly
> >in
> >accordance with a particular pattern; and
>
> >WHEREAS, all these security systems to eliminate fraud may also
> eliminate
> >blind people from engaging in financial transactions online; and
>
> >WHEREAS, security systems that prevent fraud and do not prevent blind
> users
> >are achievable and should be mandated by our country's laws requiring
> >access
>
> >for the disabled: Now, therefore,
>
> >BE IT RESOLVED by the National Federation of the Blind in Convention
> >assembled this sixth day of July, 2007, in the city of Atlanta,
> Georgia,
> >that this
>
> >organization call upon online merchants to find solutions that
> enhance
> >security but do not block the access of blind users to these
> extremely
> >important
>
> >online services; and
>
> >BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this organization seek congressional or
> >regulatory solutions to this access barrier if online merchants
> choose to
> >protect security
>
> >only by closing out blind Americans.
>
> >RESOLUTION 2007-16
>
> >Regarding the Inaccessibility of Digital Cable Services
>
> >WHEREAS, cable television companies such as Comcast, Time Warner,
> Mediacom,
> >and others are offering a growing number of digitally based and
> interactive
>
> >services through their networks such as video on demand; digital
> video
> >recording and playback; and on-screen, interactive program guides;
> and
>
> >WHEREAS, none of these services can be used without the ability
> visually to
> >read menus and prompts that are displayed on the television screen,
> thus
> >rendering
>
> >them inaccessible to the blind; and
>
> >WHEREAS, given that technologies now exist to make computers, cell
> phones,
> >and other electronic devices fully accessible to the blind, and given
> that
> >synthesized
>
> >speech is now available for hand-held devices, this regrettable lack
> of
> >nonvisual access is difficult to understand, let alone accept; and
>
> >WHEREAS, blind cable customers pay as much as everybody else for the
> cable
> >services they receive, even though some of these services are not
> fully
> >available
>
> >to them: Now, therefore,
>
> >BE IT RESOLVED by the National Federation of the Blind in Convention
> >assembled this sixth day of July, 2007, in the city of Atlanta,
> Georgia,
> >that this
>
> >organization call upon cable companies such as Comcast, Time Warner,
> >Mediacom, and others to take immediate steps to remove the nonvisual
> access
> >barriers
>
> >they have created for their blind customers through the adoption of
> >digitally based, interactive services; and
>
> >BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this organization urge these same
> companies to
> >work with the blind themselves, through the National Federation of
> the
> >Blind,
>
> >to design, develop, and implement specific solutions that will allow
> their
> >blind customers to use the same digitally based, interactive services
> as
> >their
>
> >sighted peers.
>
> >Mr. Germano, I strongly urge you to take my letter with the utmost
> >seriousness and to work with me and your other blind customers and
> the NFB
> >to find resolutions to these issues. Thank you very much.
>
> >That is the end of the letter. Thoughts?
>
> >Note, my e-mail signature will not appear in the text of the letter.
>
>
> >Sincerely yours,
> >The Constantly Barefooted,
> >Ray
> >Home phone and fax:
> >(985)360-3375
> >E-mail:
> >rforetjratcomcastdotnet
> >Skype Name:
> >barefootedray
>
> >God bless President George W. Bush!
> >God bless our troops!
> >and God bless America
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >Electronics-talk mailing list
> >Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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