[Blindtlk] FW: The fly Swatter or the Hammer
trishs
slosser at metrocast.net
Thu Apr 10 10:52:24 CDT 2008
Others will have to exhaust their own fly swatters before they
pick up the hammers. United We Stand! Stay on all of them.
And, every time you board a bus, remind the blind person driving
that you'll need an announcement. Eventually, they'll know
without you having to prompt them. Be a good little mommy now,
until the kids are grown and doing well on their own. Remember,
they just need guidance.
> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:02:52 -0400
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: The fly Swatter or the Hammer
>Hey Trish,
>Amen to that!
>It's funny. Most all of the drivers seem to insist on lowering
the lift
>for me when I get on the bus, but far too many of them still
aren't
>announcing the ADA stops.
>I just want to scream, "there's nothing wrong with my legs! I
can step
>up, and/or walk just fine! What I need is for you to make the
stop
>announcements."
>We have filed several local civil rights complaints, whihch have
been
>Mediated with promises to do better and a plan to make that
happen. But
>it still hasn't happened, and I'm over it.
>You are right, we will need many voices, another thing which has
been
>holding us back. We did get the local ACB chapter, and another
>blindness organization in our area to sign off on our letter
requesting
>the meeting. If we decide to get more aggressive though, I'm not
sure
>that the other organizations will go with us. I certainly hope
we can
>stay united, for the benefit of all of us.
>Diane Graves
>Civil Rights Specialist
>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>317-232-2647
>"Attitude is a little thing that makes a big
difference."--Winston
>Churchill
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of trishs
>Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 9:49 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: The fly Swatter or the Hammer
>Dianne, you are far too patient! 10 years is an "obscenely" long
>time to use a fly swatter. I wouldn't suggest using it more than
>3 times, that being done in a short number of months.
> You'll need more voices, and more power behind your hammer.
>Some of these are safety issues, others are of sensitivity and
>common consideration. I'm sorry that we still have to teach
>people how to be considerate of others. They need to hear that
>"Not everyone can see, you know!" I'll take my blindness over
>theirs any day, thank you very much.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:37:38 -0400
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: The fly Swatter or the Hammer
>>Hi Trish, David and all,
>>First of all Trish, welcome to the list and to the NFB. We're
>glad to
>>have you.
>>Secondly, I'd just like to chime in and say I think there is an
>art to
>>the hammer/fly swatter dilemma, as there are times when both are
>>appropriate.
>>Our chapter has been working with the local transit system in
>>Indianapolis for close to ten years now, trying to coax them to
>come
>>into compliance with the ADA. This involves for the most part,
>failure
>>to make major stop announcements, announcing there respective bus
>>numbers when they arrive at a stop, and various other things.
>>Over the past 10 years or so, we have taken time away from work
>and out
>>of our busy lives to participate in training classes for the
>drivers,
>>complained to the local public transit offices, attempted to
>explain our
>>position to the powers that be at the company etc. Etc.
>>They are still not in compliance, and I, for one, am just about
>done.
>>We have recently sent them a letter requesting another meeting
>with
>>them, and have yet to receive a response.
>>Judging from the brief feedback I've have gotten regarding our
>request,
>>I'm fearful that they are going to attempt to pacify us again,
>telling
>>us that they are working on these issues, and doing everything
>that can
>>be done.
>>This week I'm going to suggest to my chapter at our monthly
>meeting that
>>we might want to consider a complaint to the Federal Transit
>>Authority, if things don't shape up real soon.
>>Start out with the fly swatter method, but there comes a time
>when you
>>must say, "okay, the fly swatter isn't driving the message home.
>Time to
>>get out that hammer."
>>Diane Graves
>>Civil Rights Specialist
>>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>317-232-2647
>>"Attitude is a little thing that makes a big
>difference."--Winston
>>Churchill
>>Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>>confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
>for the
>>individual or entity(ies)
>>named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
>recipient, be
>>advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution,
>or
>>acting in reliance
>>upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
>have
>>received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
>sender to
>>arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>>Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>On Behalf Of trishs
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:12 PM
>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: B-F LINDA'S BATTLE, AN UPDATE
>>Thanks for the complement, David. No. I don't work as an
>>advocate, only on my own behalf when necessary, and trust me,
>>I've just recently traded in my "hammer!" Someone showed me the
>>important use of a "fly swatter." I took it to heart.
>>I'd like to say (because I like to talk about me" that I am
>>43-years-old, married with 3 children, and have recently
>>graduated from a Massage Therapy Program. Unfortunately, I
>>wasn't able to pass the National exam the first time around,
>>(only missed it by 12 points), so am auditing Kinesiology back at
>>school for a semester to better prepare for the next time around.
>>I live in NH. and have recently become a Federationist. I'm
>>doing some fund raising for my local chapter, and looking forward
>>to convention, and other activities with other blind people.
>>Other than blind camp as a child, I haven't been around blind
>>people, and honestly don't have "formal" blind skills training.
>>This list gives me another opportunity to "socialize with "my own
>>kind," and I'm SO looking forward to it.
>>There's an introduction from the "Mouth of NH." I say that,
>>because I am often tempted to grab that hammer! Feel free to let
>>me know when it's stuck in my hand.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:05:04 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: B-F LINDA'S BATTLE, AN UPDATE
>>>Dear Trish,
>>>Very good response.
>>>You stated, in a far more delicate way, exactly what I meant and
>>would do in
>>>the situation.
>>>You must forgive me as I do sometimes sound as if I would use a
>>hammer
>>>instead of a fly swatter to smack flies.
>>>Do you work in a job that lets you advocate? You might be good
>>at it.
>>>David Evans, NFBF
>>>MV Transit
>>>Consumer Advocate
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:35 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: B-F LINDA'S BATTLE, AN UPDATE
>>>> Hi, David, and all.
>>>> I'd send the letter charging at the very least insensitivity,
>>>> while pointing out any and all possible rights violations. I'D
>>>> offer to help them in the program they choose to implement,
>>>> before a suit is actually filed. That way it's less
>>>> confrontational, at the same that it's forceful. I'm sure most
>>>> staff is aware of compliance. Perhaps not all of the staff
>>would
>>>> be aware that there was and is noncompliance. Bring it to their
>>>> attention, and offer them a way to stay out of the newspapers,
>>>> and court. Stay in contact with them as they begin their
>>>> program. If they need over seeing, point them to the NFB to
>>find
>>>> resources.
>>>> These things shouldn't be happening. We all need to learn to be
>>>> our own best advocate. We're a federation of equality for the
>>>> blind. Let's build bridges, not gaps.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 23:00:41 -0400
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: B-F LINDA'S BATTLE, AN UPDATE
>>>>>Dear Trish,
>>>>>WE always try to negotiate before we litigate, but obviously the
>>>> staff here
>>>>>is very insensitive to these people feelings not to mention their
>>>> rights.
>>>>>They need to know that these rights have been violated and the
>>>> law only
>>>>>gives you a certain time period in which to file, both for a
>>>> civil suit or a
>>>>>civil rights suit.
>>>>>The powers that be need to know that you are serious and you aint
>>>> going away
>>>>>quietly.
>>>>>Otherwise, they don't need to do anything because you aren't
>>>> going to do
>>>>>anything.
>>>>>If the threat is not there, as an option, the hospital is not
>>>> going to do
>>>>>anything to change its habits. Why should they. To them nothing
>>>> happened,
>>>>>therefore, no action on their part is required.
>>>>>The interference with this man's right to take his guide dog with
>>>> him could
>>>>>be up to a third degree felony in some states with jail time and
>>>> a fine.
>>>>>Most of what was done to Linda and her husband was just plain
>>>> insensitivity
>>>>>and can be changed with an awareness and sensitivity program.
>>>> Hospitals
>>>>>have to comply with the ADA too in all programs and services
>>>> offered to the
>>>>>General Public.
>>>>>I don't think that this will go to a law suit, but the powers
>>>> that be at the
>>>>>hospital need to think it might to ensure they take action to fix
>>>> this
>>>>>before someone else gets the same treatment. Some bad publicity
>>>> will stur
>>>>>them to action.
>>>>>What would you do?
>>>>>I am open to suggestions as to how you would ensure the hospital
>>>> changes its
>>>>>ways.
>>>>>David Evans, NFBF
>>>>>MV Transit
>>>>>Consumer Advocate
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:42 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: B-F LINDA'S BATTLE, AN UPDATE
>>>>>> Hi group. My name is Trish. I'm a new member, and thought I'd
>>>>>> jump in right here. To me, this is part of what Truly Does need
>>>>>> to be fixed in our health care system.
>>>>>> I get it about Linda's ill treatment. I just don't "see" where
>>>>>> threatening to sue turns this into a positive experience.
>>>>>> I believe there should be a mandatory Disability Awareness 101
>>>>>> in all Medical Training Programs, where speakers in all areas of
>>>>>> disability are invited to staff meetings or workshops. Perhaps
>>>>>> your well deserved letter to the powers that be should offer
>>>>>> solutions so that this doesn't happen to others in the future?
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List"
>>>>>> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>,<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>,
>>>> <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>,
>>>>>> <acb-l at acb.org
>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:50:35 -0400
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: B-F LINDA'S BATTLE, AN UPDATE
>>>>>>>Dear John,
>>>>>>>I can only say that your experience is not uncommon in dealing
>>>>>> with hospital
>>>>>>>staff.
>>>>>>>Turn this negative into a positive.
>>>>>>>Tell them you are going to sue them over their handling of
>>>>>> Linda's situation
>>>>>>>unless they begin a training program for the staff on how to deal
>>>>>> with this
>>>>>>>kind of situation so it does not happen again.
>>>>>>>It should include access laws and regulations, common courtesy
>>>>>> and methods
>>>>>>>of preparing and dealing with Blind and low vision people in
>>>>>> their charge.
>>>>>>>I know that knee replacement hurts allot and doing the exercises
>>>>>> everyday is
>>>>>>>the only way it will get better and reduce the pain not to
>>>>>> mention get your
>>>>>>>mobility back.
>>>>>>>It is the treatment here that is wrong. Someone should have had
>>>>>> the duty to
>>>>>>>keep you informed as to her condition and status.
>>>>>>>Treatment staff as well as housekeeping need to be trained as to
>>>>>> what and
>>>>>>>how to handle delivery of food and treatment procedures when
>>>>>> dealing with
>>>>>>>the blind and even your service dog.
>>>>>>>If some one does not teach them what to do and that they have
>>>>>> responsibility
>>>>>>>to see to it that things are done right; what is to stop them
>>>>>> from doing
>>>>>>>this again in the future.Who at this hospital handles ADA
>>>>>> compliance? Why
>>>>>>>was not the staff trained how to deal with this.
>>>>>>>I have seen hospitals where they post a sign to tell the staff
>>>>>> entering a
>>>>>>>room that the person is Blind and to announce themselves upon
>>>>>> entering the
>>>>>>>room and exiting and what they are there for; test, housekeeping,
>>>>>> food
>>>>>>>services or medical treatments.
>>>>>>>You deserve to know and be made aware of what they are doing.
>>>>>>>David Evans, NFBF
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Eric Calhoun" <eric at pmpmail.com
>>>>>>>To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>;
>>>>>> <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>;
>>>>>>><acb-l at acb.org
>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:32 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: [Blindtlk] FW: B-F LINDA'S BATTLE, AN UPDATE
>>>>>>>> Hello, people, this _is blindness-related; contact Mr. Justice
>>>>>> for your
>>>>>>>> thoughts. Thank you
>>>>>>>> Original Message:
>>>>>>>> From: "John Justice" <johnjustice at comcast.net
>>>>>>>> To: <blind-friends at yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: B-F LINDA'S BATTLE, AN UPDATE
>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>> Thu, 3 Apr 2008 21:15:10 -0400
>>>>>>>> Recently, my wife Linda went through a double knee replacement.
>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>> surgery was on February 4, and the actual operation went quite
>>>>>> well. But
>>>>>>>> what happened after that is something we are still trying to
>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>>>>From the very beginning, we knew that trouble was coming. I
>>>>>> brought my
>>>>>>>> guide dog along and the staff at the Admissions desk started to
>>>>>> give us a
>>>>>>>> hard time about there not being enough room in the treatment
>>>>>> area for the
>>>>>>>> dog. They finally shifted us to a larger room and I was able to
>>>>>> sit on
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> side while Linda was being prepared for surgery. The last thing
>>>>>> I heard
>>>>>>>> was her joking with people in the hallway as she was wheeled
>>>>>> away.
>>>>>>>> Her surgeon, Doctor Star, called me later to tell me that the
>>>>>> operation
>>>>>>>> had gone quite well. At that time Linda was still in the
>>>>>> Recovery Room
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> they wouldn't let me anywhere near her. During an operation
>>>>>> like this,
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> doctors use something called femoral blocks. They are
>>>>>> injections which
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> supposed to help with the tremendous pain. Linda woke up to
>>>>>> unbelievable
>>>>>>>> agony because the injections didn't work for her at all. They
>>>>>> finally got
>>>>>>>> her pain under control enough to move her up to the room where I
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> waiting. I had been sitting there for more than 2 hours,
>>>>>> wondering what
>>>>>>>> had happened to Linda and getting very little information at
>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>>> During her stay at the hospital, she ran into a problem time and
>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>> again with staff who just didn't know how to deal with a totally
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> patient, especially one who was completely helpless due to major
>>>>>> surgery.
>>>>>>>> At times, they refused to help her at all. They made no
>>>>>> adjustment for
>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>> blindness and got angry when we demanded a little consideration.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> nurses, especially at night, did nothing but complain constantly
>>>>>> about how
>>>>>>>> understaffed they were and made Linda feel like a criminal every
>>>>>> time she
>>>>>>>> asked for something. Her requests were normal. Her pleas for
>>>>>>>> consideration where her blindness was concerned were reasonable.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> physicians thought so but the nursing staff, especially the
>>>>>> clinical
>>>>>>>> assistants, seemed to act as if Linda was some kind of strange
>>>>>> creature
>>>>>>>> from another planet. I raised so much hell with Patient
>>>>>> Relations that,
>>>>>>>> after a while, they were reluctant to return my calls. This was
>>>>>> Linda's
>>>>>>>> first time in a hospital. She had never been operated on before
>>>>>> nor was
>>>>>>>> she in a hospital as a patient in her adult life. She just
>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>> prepared
>>>>>>>> for their lack of cooperation and offensive manner.
>>>>>>>> But my Linda is a fighter. In spite of everything, she went on.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>> then, what choice did she have? Her own knees were gone and she
>>>>>> had to
>>>>>>>> deal with these new artificial ones, whether she liked it or
>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>> After 3 days in the surgery ward, Linda was moved up stairs to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Rehabilitation floor. But the attitude of the nurses on that
>>>>>> floor was,
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> anything, worse than the staff in the Surgical wing. At one
>>>>>> point, one of
>>>>>>>> the male nurses tried to refuse me admittance into a patient
>>>>>> dining room
>>>>>>>> where the patients, if they wanted to, could eat with their
>>>>>> families. I
>>>>>>>> warned the man that he was getting himself into hot water but
>>>>>> he refused
>>>>>>>> to listen until some supervisor showed up and gave him walking
>>>>>> orders.
>>>>>>>> What a jerk! After that, we had no trouble in the dining room
>>>>>> except for
>>>>>>>> Linda's constant, ongoing pain.
>>>>>>>> As blind people, some of you will appreciate and understand what
>>>>>> Linda
>>>>>>>> had to put up with. She would ask for water and one of them
>>>>>> would bring
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> for her. Then later, when some procedure or other was
>>>>>> necessary, the
>>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>>> would be moved and no thought was given to how Linda could find
>>>>>> it in a
>>>>>>>> strange room. The nurses just didn't or wouldn't understand
>>>>>> that a few
>>>>>>>> seconds of consideration might make all of the difference for
>>>>>> Linda,
>>>>>>>> especially when it came to her blindness coupled with the fact
>>>>>> that she
>>>>>>>> couldn't move around very well. Various staff members would
>>>>>> enter her
>>>>>>>> room
>>>>>>>> and without explaining what they were doing, would begin
>>>>>> whatever
>>>>>>>> treatment
>>>>>>>> they had in mind. At first, the housekeeping staff would bring
>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>> dinner,
>>>>>>>> set it on a side table and never tell her it was there. More
>>>>>> than once,
>>>>>>>> they moved her phone out of reach and didn't put it back. She
>>>>>> couldn't
>>>>>>>> wait to get out of there.
>>>>>>>> The physical therapists were completely different in every
>>>>>> respect from
>>>>>>>> the nursing staff. They were considerate, patient and took the
>>>>>> time to
>>>>>>>> explain every exercise and process. They told Linda exactly
>>>>>> what she had
>>>>>>>> to do and described the equipment before asking her to use it.
>>>>>> Linda used
>>>>>>>> to say that her therapy classes were an escape from the hell
>>>>>> created by
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> rest of the staff. She tried to educate them but it was an up
>>>>>> hill battle
>>>>>>>> with those who just wouldn't listen or didn't care.
>>>>>>>> No one ever told us how much it would hurt. I swear to you
>>>>>> people. I
>>>>>>>> believe that Linda was the only blind patient this hospital ever
>>>>>> had who
>>>>>>>> got both knees replaced at the same time. But Linda said it
>>>>>> best. If she
>>>>>>>> had known how much it was going to hurt, she would have never
>>>>>> had the
>>>>>>>> surgery at all. But in her case, the bilateral replacement was
>>>>>> necessary.
>>>>>>>> Both of her knees were that bad.
>>>>>>>> When she came home from the hospital, her motion was still very
>>>>>> limited.
>>>>>>>> I took care of my baby and I enjoyed doing it. I was so afraid
>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>>> would have forgotten how to fix a meal or clean up the kitchen
>>>>>> but I did
>>>>>>>> surprisingly well. Linda could manage to get up and down the
>>>>>> stairs
>>>>>>>> although it was a slow and painful process. We borrowed a wheel
>>>>>> chair and
>>>>>>>> for the longest time, that was her place to sit at our table.
>>>>>> Our house
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> too small for the chair to be useful anywhere else. She used a
>>>>>> rolling
>>>>>>>> walker for a while and then graduated to a cane.
>>>>>>>> Well, that was more than 8 weeks ago friends. Linda is doing
>>>>>> quite well
>>>>>>>> walking around now without the aid of a walker or a cane. She
>>>>>> is still in
>>>>>>>> quite a bit of pain. But gradually things are improving. Linda
>>>>>> had the
>>>>>>>> opportunity, through several surveys, to describe her experience
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>> hospital. She showed them no mercy. Eventually, we are going
>>>>>> to write a
>>>>>>>> letter to the hospital's administration. We believe that the
>>>>>> staff is
>>>>>>>> sadly lacking in knowledge when it comes to helping patients
>>>>>> with physical
>>>>>>>> impairments, especially those whom are totally blind.
>>>>>>>> John Justice
>>>>>>>> My job feeds my family, music feeds my soul.
>>>>>>>> PERSONAL E-MAIL: johnjustice at comcast.net
>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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