[Blindtlk] FW: FNC Alert

Wed Nov 29 11:50:14 CST 2006

Hi Again Ray,

I forgot to mention.  Yes the ADA does require drivers to announce the
major bus stops.  Here again there is technology available to do this
automatically so they can continue to do whatever it is they deem more
important. Talking on cell phones or flirting with other riders or
whatever.  But the city doesn't' want to spend the money.

Well... If you aren't going to spend the money, then there is a very
simple solution. Insist that your drivers open their mouths and do their
jobs.  There are aspects of my job that I don't enjoy either, but I have
to do them.

Here again, we have the right to the same information as our sighted
counterparts.  We have the right to be in control of our own schedules
and not at the mercy of a driver's memory.

Diane Graves 
Civil Rights Specialist 
Indiana Civil Rights Commission 
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit 
317-232-2647 

"Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference."--Winston
Churchill  

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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr.
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:00 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: FNC Alert

Wait!  Do you mean to tell me that the ADA requires bus drivers to
announce 
at each major stop?  This I did not know.

    As I was shaving just now, your message came back to me with a bit
of a 
question.  Let me explain.  ON this coming Friday, I'm going to open an 
account at Chase bank.  I'm doing this not just for the free $100.00
they 
offered me, I'm doing it for the accaccessibility; Braille bank
statements, 
talking ATMs' and the fact that they check their site using both JAWS
and 
Window-Eyes.  Now, I can just hear you saying, "Wait a second here.  You
say 
you don't like the change in the money thing; yet, you switch banks for 
reasons of greater accessibility?  What's up with that?  Haven't you
been 
banking successfully all these years at your current bank (which does
not 
have and may never have Braille bank statements or talking ATMS'?
Doesn't 
that make you inconsistent?"

    My answer is yes, I have been dealing successfully with my current
bank 
since late 1999 without either Braille bank statements or talking ATMS'.

So, if that's the case, how come the switch?  In the final analysis, it 
comes right down to what you yourself said earlier; "more independence.
Ah, 
but, the question again.  Why not just keep my account over at Whitney 
rather than go through all that switching?  After all, you get along
pretty 
well with things as they are.  So, again, the question.  Why switch?
Once 
again, your original answer, plus one other thing.
independence+privacy.  I 
think we would all agree that a Braille bank statement is much more
private 
than even a statement scanned via OCR.  Mostly, I think, because with
the 
Braille, at least I can understand it.  Print bank statements (at least
in 
my experience) tend not to scan so accurately.  For the record, I've
tried 
using Text Cloner Pro and Omnipage SE.

Sincerely yours,
The Constantly Barefooted,
Ray
Home phone and fax:
(985)853-0139
E-mail:
rforetjr at bellsouth.net
Skype Name:
barefootedray
Blog:
www.raysworld.blogs.com
Podcast .rss Feed:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray

God bless President George W. Bush!
God bless our troops!
and God bless America
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at crc.IN.gov>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: FNC Alert

HI,

I understand what you are saying Ray.  I don't' want anyone feeling
sorry for me either. (At least, not as a result of blindness  LOL.) I do
want to be as absolutely independent of sighted assistance and as much
on an equal footing as I can be. The way I see it currency that I can
identify completely devoid of sighted assistance will be another small
step in this direction.

Unfortunately you will always have the "poor me" blind folks, and the
"whatever you do or say is amazing Honey" sighted folks.  Believe me,
they make my skin crawl too.

But it really is a matter of perspective.  This step up could really
provide us with more independence and greater security.  As I say, I do
have much bigger band wagons to jump on, and the alternative techniques
that I have employed are working fine for me now, but I don't' want to
stand in the way of progress either.

In an apparently similar situation, we have been having a time for the
last several years here in Indianapolis, with getting the city bus
drivers to announce the major bus stops as required under the ADA.  They
simply do not want to do it, and the company refuses to take any action
to enforce it. I think we may be looking at a class action suit before
it is all over.

Now we are not fighting for this because we are "poor blind people" who
need to be taken care of.  Quite the contrary. We are fighting for this
because we are blind people who want to be in control of when and where
we disembark from the bus, and not at the mercy of some driver who
"forgets" because he/she is overwhelmed in traffic or is gabbing with
other riders, or gets busy on his/her cell phone.

We need them to know that our work and family schedules are every bit as
important as those of the sighted, and we need to be in independent
control of getting ourselves where we need to be on time.  Believe me, I
have had them assure me that they would let me know, when we arrived at
my destination and then ended up having to ride around for another hour
because they didn't.

Anyway, you can look at it as the glass being half empty or full.  But
it is independence and equality that I am after, not a pity party at
all.  I don't' like that spin on things either.  Unfortunately, there
will always be those that approach things that way.

Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647

"Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference."--Winston
Churchill

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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr.
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:22 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: FNC Alert

Morning Diane,

    As usual, your messages are thought provoking.  Let me make one
thing very clear.  I do not oppose the idea of the US treasury modifying
our bills in such a way that we would be able to tactily identify our
money; so long as blindness is not the reason for the change.  The fact
that the ACB is

behind this has emotional reactionism plastered all over it.  They're
appealing to the pity of the federal courts; and, I dare say, the
American people.  "Aw, look at us poor blind people.", this story and
action seem to say, "we're so smart.  It's a wonder how we know so many
things and are so wonderful; and yet, can't even manage to get our own
pants on in the morning or tell apart our money...tisk tisk tisk...".
    IF they're going to change the money, let it be for the reasons you
stated; consistency with the rest of the world in adopting a tactile
money system, better security ETC.  But, please!!!  Not blindness!!!!!
As for

knocking progress, if that so-called progress gets in the way of our
normal lives especially to the point where it uses emotions of pity to
appeal for change, than I say it deserves to be knocked right back where
it came from. However, if the change comes for the right reasons;
progress for us in ways which will make us more independent, and without
appealing to emotional pity, I'm all for it.

Sincerely yours,
The Constantly Barefooted,
Ray
Home phone and fax:
(985)853-0139
E-mail:
rforetjr at bellsouth.net
Skype Name:
barefootedray
Blog:
www.raysworld.blogs.com
Podcast .rss Feed:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray

God bless President George W. Bush!
God bless our troops!
and God bless America
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at crc.IN.gov>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: FNC Alert

Good Morning To All,

My viewpoint is pretty much in line with yours Sherri.  I mean, PLEASE
do not get me wrong.  We have MANY much more important issues in need of
attention from our legislators and legal system than this one.

I too have a method of folding my money, and it generally has proven to
be quite effective.  For many years I didn't even fold it.  What I would
do is keep the larger bills on the outside of the role or stack of bills
and the smaller ones in the middle, and then just remember what I had.
But alas, I am growing older, and my memory is growing weaker.  So
several years ago I began to fold the bills for identification purposes.

But, it is a fact that, in order to get our money folded in the first
place we do have to depend on the honesty/accuracy of a merchant, a bank
teller, a family member and so on.  That is, if we don't' have that $400
identifier.  Most of the time this method of initial identification
works fine, but I have been known to be on the other side of that coin.
It doesn't happen regularly or often, but it has happened.

Like Sherri, I don't spend a great deal of time fretting about this
issue, but the rest of the world is going to a completely tactilely
identifiable monitory system, and I don't see why we need to be
different just to prove that there are alternative techniques.

After all, progress is progress.  I mean, prior to the days of
wide-spread computer use, and scanners and Kurzweil and the whole bit,
blind people hired and used readers and sometimes had to call on others
to proof read there typed work and so on.  This worked out fine for them
then.  It was an alternative technique and it worked well.  But would
you rather have stayed back there?  Aren't you thankful, glad and
elated, that you can now take care of your bills, mail and other
business totally independently for the most part?

I know I am.  The alternative techniques worked fine for their time, but
I for one, am grateful to be increasingly more independent of sighted
assistance.

And now we even have the Kurzweil/NFB handheld reader which will
increase that independence even more as it can be carried with us.  I
can't wait to get my hands on one of those.  I am folding my money and
putting it away (when I can) in anticipation of that grand purchase.

I do understand that it seems absurd to spend time on the little things
when there are so many major problems, but don't knock progress guys!
Every little piece of independence we achieve is precious.  At least it
is to me.

Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647

"Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference."--Winston
Churchill

Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for the
individual or entity(ies) named in the E-mail address. If you are not
the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure,
copying, distribution, or acting in reliance upon the contents of this
E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this E-mail
transmission in error, please reply to sender to arrange for the return
and proper delivery of the transmission. Subsequently, delete the
message from your system immediately.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Sherri
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 2:26 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: FNC Alert

This is probably an unpopular viewpoint and though I manage pretty well
without it and am much more concerned about obtaining more money than I
am about having some tactile way to tell bills apart other than folding,
I guess I don't understand why we don't just catch up with the rest of
the

world and make our money identifiable? If we have to change it anyway
because of counterfeit bills, why not just make the other changes too?
However, I don't stay up nights thinking about this issue. Really, it
isn't that important in the scheme of things. (smile)

Sherri

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