[Blindtlk] A QuestionRegardingPublicAccommodationRequirementsunder the ADA

Tue Dec 12 14:29:56 CST 2006

Hello Bryan and listers,

    But remember that the store is not obligated to provide this service to
you under the ADA. They do it out of courtesy, and at their convenience.
Mike Freeman and others have all ready pointed this out in earlier posts.

    One way to be sure the person assisting you with grocery shopping knows
what they're doing is to buddy up with someone else also needing to get
groceries and you can shop together. In fact I did this last week. I've also
had instances when the normal sighted courtesy clerks have given me the
wrong merchandise, and I don't often discover it until I get home. When they
pick up what I need I'll often examine the item to be sure if it's correct.
For example I can tell Campbell's Split Pea With Ham and Bacon Soup from a
can of Chicken Noodle simply by shaking the two can. The Chicken Noodle Soup
sloshes around in the can whereas the Split Pea Soup does not. The size,
texture, and weight of items can also help you detect whether it's what you
want or not. I'm not saying that my system is fool proof, but it succeeds
more often than it fails. No matter who assists you with your grocery
shopping you must always remain in charge of the situation. Now go buy your
Christmas Dinner. Our Butter-Ball Turkey I bought following Thanksgiving is
all ready in the deep freezer.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Miller" <brian-r-miller at uiowa.edu>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] A
QuestionRegardingPublicAccommodationRequirementsunder the ADA

Dianne,

Frankly, I would never shop at that dollar store again, and I would consider
sending a letter to your local newspaper, preferably one where this store
has advertised, and tell your story.

It is a common practice at large grocery stores to pair up a blind person
with one of the courtessy clerks with cognative disabilities.  I am always
amazed at this almost cruel joke, although the stoe managers don't mean it
as such.  They think, "Hmmm, who can I easily spare?"  Or, perhaps they
think pairing up the people with disabilities is some kind of noble thing to
do.

In these cases you simply need to politely request to speak to the store
manager and ask if there is someone else available at that time.  Again, you
are a customer, there to spend money, should they should at least consider
within reason your request.

One thing you might look into, however, is ordering your groceries online
for delivery, or at least pick up.  It usually only costs about $7-10, and
the convenience is worth every penny.  Keep in mind that these services are
for everyone, not just blind guys.

Happy shopping,
brian Miller

To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 4:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] A Question
RegardingPublicAccommodationRequirementsunder the ADA

> Thanks for all your input guys.  I am really thankful for this list and
> for all of you.  I have definitely learned something new.  I just always
> thought the in-store assistance fell under the reasonable accommodation
> law.  I really didn't know. To tell the truth, I feel like something of
> a fool now.  I'm kind of hesitant to go back in there, because I don't
> feel very welcome any more, and feel like I'm bothering them.
>
> Another thing that the manager and I argued about, which, if he hadn't
> let it go, would definitely have been discrimination was his objection
> to my getting what I could on my own.
>
> The Dollar Store is small, and there are some items that I can identify
> by touch and tell what they are.  So... If I don't' want to wait for or
> they don't want to provide assistance, I can get those things on my own.
> For instance, the boxes of Splenda we get have a distinctive feel, and I
> know where they are.  Also certain kinds of candy and kitchen items and
> so forth are like this.
>
> Anyway, he got really angry a while back, because I came in and didn't
> let anyone know I was there, just got the things I could on my own.  His
> contention was that the aisles are very congested, and if this poor
> incompetent blind woman (dripping with sarcasm) was to fall or trip over
> something, they might be liable.  So he didn't want me doing that.
>
> When we were arguing on Saturday, I challenged him on that.  Initially
> he said "yes, I do have a problem with that," and restated the above
> reason.
>
> I said "but this is a self-service store, you just said that. Some
> things I can get on my own and you can't prohibit me from doing what
> others are allowed to do. That is discrimination."
>
> He called  his boss and ultimately said that I was free to walk the
> aisles and get what I needed if no one was available to help, but that
> if anything happened to me, they weren't liable.
>
> Well, as I say, I have definitely learned something new. Wow!  It sure
> sheds a new light on the situation at Kroger.  I often get irritated
> with them because they will provide a bagger as an assistant, many of
> whom are academically challenged kids who honestly can barely read.  I
> honestly don't know how many of these kids filled out job applications!
> It's so frustrating sometimes.  I mean, if I could read the print labels
> myself, I wouldn't' need any assistance.  I've always been like, "why
> would you give a blind person an assistant who can't read?!" Now to find
> out they really aren't required to provide any assistance at all.
>
> Better be thankful for what I get.
>
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
>
>
> "Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference."--Winston
> Churchill
>
>
>
>
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Brian Miller
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 8:09 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] A Question Regarding
> PublicAccommodationRequirementsunder the ADA
>
>
> As Mike notes, they aren't required to provide assistance, but it sure
> seems as though they could have been nicer about telling you so.  This
> is exceedingly bad business practice if you ask me.  It would be one
> thing if they were very busy, or, as they originally claimed,
> short-staffed and unable to help at that time.  In the latter case, they
> could have politely suggested you come back when someone was available.
>
> Brian Miller
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 6:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] A Question Regarding Public
> AccommodationRequirementsunder the ADA
>
>
> > Diane:
> >
> > The store manager is right; stores are not required to provide
> > shopping assistance.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at crc.in.gov>
> > To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; <jmcCarthy at nfb.org>; <mmaurer at nfb.org>
> > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 5:54 AM
> > Subject: [Blindtlk] A Question Regarding Public Accommodation
> > Requirementsunder the ADA
> >
> >
> > Greetings to all,
> >
> > My apologies to anyone who might be getting this twice.  Wanted to get
>
> > it out to several sources, as I am needing to get a definitive answer
> > as soon as I can.
> >
> > Does anyone know what the ADA law states regarding "self service"
> > stores providing assistance with shopping for those who may need it
> > due to blindness or other disability.
> >
> > I was in a Dollar General a few days ago, and was told that there was
> > no one available to assist me so I would have to leave and come back.
>
> > (I later found out that I was lied too, and that there were, in fact
> > plenty of personnel on hand to assist me.)  But, as the manager
> > pointed out to me, lying is not illegal.
> >
> > I was told by this same manager that, as the Dollar General is a "self
>
> > Service" store, they are not required to provide me with assistance
> > getting what I needed.  The manager said that they do provide this
> > assistance when they can  but that they are not required under the law
>
> > to do so.
> >
> > The Dollar General, of course, is by far not the only "self Service"
> > store that I deal with, so I simply need to know if I am being given
> > accurate information, and a store such as this one, or a drug store or
>
> > grocery store and so on, are not required to provide assistance to
> > customers who need it.
> >
> > This is not the first time this problem has surfaced, so I just need
> > to know whose side the law is on on this one. Am I mistaken or wrong
> > to expect or request this assistance?
> >
> > Any information I could get would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Diane Graves
> > Civil Rights Specialist
> > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> > 317-232-2647
> >
> >
> >
> > "Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference."--Winston
> > Churchill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
> > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
> > the individual or entity(ies) named in the E-mail address. If you are
> > not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized
> > disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting in reliance upon the
> > contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> > this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to arrange
> > for the return and proper delivery of the transmission. Subsequently,
> > delete the message from your system immediately.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> ------
> >
> >
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> > >
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