[blindlaw] Google Book Search
ger sadlier
gersadlier at yahoo.ie
Tue Jan 8 13:06:01 CST 2008
Even with works that are out of copyright, you can only read their text page by page on google. you can download a pdf but it only contains images of text and more over seems designed to be difficult to ocr properly, though this can be managed, the results are not usually particularly acceptable.
G
blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: ABA Young Lawyers Division Diversity meeting (albert griffith)
2. Re: New Scanning Option (albert griffith)
3. Re: New Scanning Option (AZNOR99 at aol.com)
4. Re: New Scanning Option (Gregory I. Vendeland)
5. Re: New Scanning Option (Joe Orozco)
6. Re: Inaccessibility of Google Book Search (Ray Wayne)
7. Fwd: Looking for blind health professionals (David Andrews)
8. Re: Inaccessibility of Google Book Search (Steve Jacobson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:00:21 -0800
From: "albert griffith"
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ABA Young Lawyers Division Diversity meeting
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I hope they hold more of these throughout the country.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:49 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Young Lawyers Division Diversity meeting
_____
From: Phelan, William [mailto:phelanw at staff.abanet.org]
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:08 AM
To: CMPDL-MENTORPROGRAM at MAIL.ABANET.ORG
Subject: FW: Spring Conference
Hello everyone,
Below is a link for a diversity summit being held by the American Bar
Association Young Lawyers Division (YLD) here in DC this spring. As you
can see, the YLD (or Jill) wants to include stories of those who are
young lawyers (or memories from when you were a young lawyer) with a
disability as to make the event worth while. I know that some of you who
are on this distribution list are of this population. More details on
the event can be found in the link from Jill below.
If you have a moment and would like to help by submitting your story, I
ask that you get it to me sometime in the next 2 months so it can be
utilized. You can just e-mail it to me at phelanw at staff.abanet.org.
Also, if you know of anyone who would want to submit such a story,
please pass this e-mail along.
Finally, for those of you who are in YLD, I encourage you to attend this
event. If you are eligible and not in YLD, I further encourage you to
join at: http://www.abanet.org/yld/membership.html. This Division of the
American Bar Association is a great resource for young lawyers and,
obviously, is cognizant of accommodating and reaching out to lawyers
with disabilities. It will most certainly be worth while.
Best,
Bill Phelan
_____
From: McCall, Jill Eckert
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:02 PM
To: Phelan, William
Subject: RE: Spring Conference
Hi Bill!
Yes, disabled lawyers are included. Review
http://www.abanet.org/yld/spring08/diversitysummit.html for details and
subscribe to the list serve so we'll keep you in the loop as the
planning unfolds.
The vignette form will be available online soon, and if you can get some
disabled attorneys (young lawyers or those who can recollect a story
from when they were young lawyers) to submit their stories, that would
ensure that the stories we discuss and comment on at the event
incorporate their needs and interests.
Thanks, and have a nice weekend.
Jill
_____
From: Phelan, William
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 8:43 AM
To: McCall, Jill Eckert
Subject: Spring Conference
Hi Jill,
Hope you had a good holiday.
As a member, I plan on attending the YLD spring conference here in DC.
The diversity event was recently brought to my attention, but the
website doesn't contain much detail for the agenda. I was wondering if
you plan on having disabled lawyers included? We here at the Commission
would be happy to provide assistance.
Thanks,
Bill
______________________________________________
William J. Phelan, IV, Esq.
Special Projects & Technology Coordinator
Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law
American Bar Association
vox: 202.662.1576
fax: 202.662.1032
phelanw at staff.abanet.org
http://www.abanet.org/disability
______________________________________________
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
- Martin Luther King, Jr.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:01:51 -0800
From: "albert griffith"
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I've studied the matter extensively and you're right. Image only files
can't be converted.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr.
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:52 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
I think that terminology may be clouding the issue here.
It is my understanding that currently there are no programs that will
convert files that are purely "image, i.e. no readable text in the file --
files that look like pictures. Indeed, on these type of documents using
adobe 8.1 to convert the document returns a result of "empty document." It
is my understanding that only files with embedded text can be converted by
any program currently available.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 5:38 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
Well, because I hope Ronza is right, and because I respect her acumen, I
tried to look into this a bit. I have JAWS version 9 and the latest adobe
reader 8.1 or whatever. First, I looked in the JAWS help file under acrobat
but there was no mention that later versions of the reader would offer to
convert image files. Arguably it would be adobe and not JAWS that would
advertise this feature so I thought I would open an image file that I have
not been able to read without running it through K1000 first. I was not
offered a conversion option by adobe. I loaded the adobe software before
updating JAWS and I suppose that might make a difference. I also wonder if
you, Ronza are using the adobe free software or if you actually own the
acrobat professional product?
Perhaps you said and I missed it. At any rate, what Tim has mentioned would
be a great benefit to many of us I am sure, but perhaps one needs the
professional product to gain that advantage.
Jim McCarthy
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 5:29 PM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
Steve,
Are you using Jaws 8 or 9? I believe that's a requirement. Jaws 7 and
below does not convert the document. The prompt says something like "This
document appears to be an image. Would you like Adobe to run a character
scan to convert the image to text?"
I checked a box that tells Adobe to automatically convert all image files
to text, so I can't get the exact language of the prompt anymore.
Good luck.
Regards,
Ronza
In a message dated 1/6/2008 4:14:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,
steve.jacobson at visi.com writes:
Please explain this further because I think we're talking about two
different things in this thread. The ability to create PDF documents that
contains both the original image and the text has been around for a while.
I do not know of Acrobat supported it or not but it was an option at least
in OmniPage when used to create PDF's.
I just tried to read a document that was only an image a week ago or so
with Acrobat Reader 8.1.1. There was no option to extract text from the
document that I was aware of, but I was able to convert the document to
text using an OmniPage option so I know the text was recognizable. This
would be very handy if Adobe built in such a feature, though. Would you
describe where you were prompted for the conversion option? Are you
certain you were not hearing the "document being processed" message that
accompanies the normal extraction of text? Maybe I missed something.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:15:07 -0800, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. wrote:
>The version you want is Adobe 8.1. you can download it from the Adobe
>website.
>The advantage is that this program will convert certain PDF documents
>to text, documents which cannot be converted by the use of other
>programs. The disadvantage is that the document must be saved as a
>text file, thereby losing the formatting of the original document.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
>Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:01 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
>I have not experienced what you describe on my free Adobe Reader
>software, which is version 8 something. If the material is image
>only, then JAWS indicates that, but Adobe does not give me the option
>of converting to text. Perhaps there is some setting in the Adobe
>Reader software that needs to be turned on in order to get the prompt
>you describe? This would be wonderful news. While the virtual
>Freedom Import printer works well enough, converting through Openbook,
>this new approach sounds even better, and especially for large
>documents, where converting through Openbook can take awhile. So if
>you happen to know how to activate this feature, please let me know.
>Tim Ford
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com
>Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:53 AM
>To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
>Tim and All,
>
>I noticed this a few months ago. The newer versions of Adobe (8.0 and
>above) now have a feature that recognizes screen reading software, in
>my experience Jaws 8.0 and beyond. Once I download an image file,
>Adobe recognizes that there is text and asks if I want it to try to
>convert the file to OCR-enabled. Once I do, it very quickly
>processes the image and converts it. I've done this with briefs,
>receipts, and even exhibits. In fact, I've not used my virtual printer
>once since I upgraded to the new version of Adobe.
>
>This means that you don't necessarily need Adobe Professional on any
>machine. The standard free addition works wonderfully. It's made my
>work much easier and saved me a great deal of time.
>
>Regards,
>Ronza
>
>
>
>In a message dated 1/6/2008 12:46:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov writes:
>I recently discovered, quite by accident, a new scanning option that
>may be of interest.
>My office recently installed Adobe Acrobat 8 Professional, Version
>8.0.0, on the computer with the scanner that I have been using to
>create PDF versions of briefs an other material I need to send to
>others electronically. I had my assistant scan in a brief that I was
>to file electronically.
>I pulled up the results, just to print it and have my assistant make
>sure all the pages were there. To my surprise, JAWS started
>automatically reading the document. I had my assistant check, and on
>the screen, and what we printed, was the typical image only format,
>with my scrawled signature and all.
>so apparently what this new version of Adobe has is the capacity to
>add a quite good optical character recognition of the text. The
>recognition quality was quite good, better than what I am used to with
>OpenBook.
>So the advantages of this is that:
>1. You have a PDF file with the actual intact original, so if there
>are any scan errors to figure out, you have the original there for a
>sighted person to review.
>2. You also have the actual original that you can print and/or send
>electronically to others. If the person you send it to does not use
>a screen reading program, then they will not notice any difference
>between what they see and any other Adobe PDF image only scan.
>3. If the recipient has a screen reader installed, then Adobe knows
>that, and automatically turns on the converted text imbedded
>information.
>Oh yes, and there is yet another neat aspect. Although the Adobe
>text conversion itself is not something you can edit, all you do is
>select whatever text you want, including using control plus a to
select all,
>and paste that in to a Word document. That gives you everything
that
>the Adobe text recognition picked up.
>For my Adobe reader software, I have the typical free reader version,
>so you do not need to have the Adobe Professional version installed
>except on the machine that has the scanner on it.
>I do not know the cost of the Adobe Professional version software.
>However, this is the typical software product that most offices now
>use, and is certainly something that would be affordable by most any
>office of any size.
>Sincerely,
>Tim Ford
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:20:09 EST
From: AZNOR99 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm sorry to have given everyone hope. I still don't know why the files I
have convert. However, Jim did send a file, and it did not do the usual
magical conversion. Perhaps the file has to be text imbedded in an image. Does
anyone else know what I was talking about though? Has anyone else had the
program offer to convert the file to OCR-ready?
Ronza
In a message dated 1/7/2008 5:03:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
albertpgriffith at hotmail.com writes:
I've studied the matter extensively and you're right. Image only files
can't be converted.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr.
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:52 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
I think that terminology may be clouding the issue here.
It is my understanding that currently there are no programs that will
convert files that are purely "image, i.e. no readable text in the file --
files that look like pictures. Indeed, on these type of documents using
adobe 8.1 to convert the document returns a result of "empty document." It
is my understanding that only files with embedded text can be converted by
any program currently available.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 5:38 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
Well, because I hope Ronza is right, and because I respect her acumen, I
tried to look into this a bit. I have JAWS version 9 and the latest adobe
reader 8.1 or whatever. First, I looked in the JAWS help file under acrobat
but there was no mention that later versions of the reader would offer to
convert image files. Arguably it would be adobe and not JAWS that would
advertise this feature so I thought I would open an image file that I have
not been able to read without running it through K1000 first. I was not
offered a conversion option by adobe. I loaded the adobe software before
updating JAWS and I suppose that might make a difference. I also wonder if
you, Ronza are using the adobe free software or if you actually own the
acrobat professional product?
Perhaps you said and I missed it. At any rate, what Tim has mentioned would
be a great benefit to many of us I am sure, but perhaps one needs the
professional product to gain that advantage.
Jim McCarthy
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 5:29 PM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
Steve,
Are you using Jaws 8 or 9? I believe that's a requirement. Jaws 7 and
below does not convert the document. The prompt says something like "This
document appears to be an image. Would you like Adobe to run a character
scan to convert the image to text?"
I checked a box that tells Adobe to automatically convert all image files
to text, so I can't get the exact language of the prompt anymore.
Good luck.
Regards,
Ronza
In a message dated 1/6/2008 4:14:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,
steve.jacobson at visi.com writes:
Please explain this further because I think we're talking about two
different things in this thread. The ability to create PDF documents that
contains both the original image and the text has been around for a while.
I do not know of Acrobat supported it or not but it was an option at least
in OmniPage when used to create PDF's.
I just tried to read a document that was only an image a week ago or so
with Acrobat Reader 8.1.1. There was no option to extract text from the
document that I was aware of, but I was able to convert the document to
text using an OmniPage option so I know the text was recognizable. This
would be very handy if Adobe built in such a feature, though. Would you
describe where you were prompted for the conversion option? Are you
certain you were not hearing the "document being processed" message that
accompanies the normal extraction of text? Maybe I missed something.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:15:07 -0800, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. wrote:
>The version you want is Adobe 8.1. you can download it from the Adobe
>website.
>The advantage is that this program will convert certain PDF documents
>to text, documents which cannot be converted by the use of other
>programs. The disadvantage is that the document must be saved as a
>text file, thereby losing the formatting of the original document.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
>Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:01 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
>I have not experienced what you describe on my free Adobe Reader
>software, which is version 8 something. If the material is image
>only, then JAWS indicates that, but Adobe does not give me the option
=== message truncated ===
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
-------------- next part --------------
Even with works that are out of copyright, you can only read their text page by page on google. you can download a pdf but it only contains images of text and more over seems designed to be difficult to ocr properly, though this can be managed, the results are not usually particularly acceptable.
G
blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org
wrote:
Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: ABA Young Lawyers Division Diversity meeting (albert griffith)
2. Re: New Scanning Option (albert griffith)
3. Re: New Scanning Option (AZNOR99 at aol.com)
4. Re: New Scanning Option (Gregory I. Vendeland)
5. Re: New Scanning Option (Joe Orozco)
6. Re: Inaccessibility of Google Book Search (Ray Wayne)
7. Fwd: Looking for blind health professionals (David Andrews)
8. Re: Inaccessibility of Google Book Search (Steve Jacobson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:00:21 -0800
From: "albert griffith"
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ABA Young Lawyers Division Diversity meeting
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I hope they hold more of these throughout the country.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:49 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Young Lawyers Division Diversity meeting
_____
From: Phelan, William [mailto:phelanw at staff.abanet.org]
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:08 AM
To: CMPDL-MENTORPROGRAM at MAIL.ABANET.ORG
Subject: FW: Spring Conference
Hello everyone,
Below is a link for a diversity summit being held by the American Bar
Association Young Lawyers Division (YLD) here in DC this spring. As you
can see, the YLD (or Jill) wants to include stories of those who are
young lawyers (or memories from when you were a young lawyer) with a
disability as to make the event worth while. I know that some of you who
are on this distribution list are of this population. More details on
the event can be found in the link from Jill below.
If you have a moment and would like to help by submitting your story, I
ask that you get it to me sometime in the next 2 months so it can be
utilized. You can just e-mail it to me at phelanw at staff.abanet.org.
Also, if you know of anyone who would want to submit such a story,
please pass this e-mail along.
Finally, for those of you who are in YLD, I encourage you to attend this
event. If you are eligible and not in YLD, I further encourage you to
join at: http://www.abanet.org/yld/membership.html. This Division of the
American Bar Association is a great resource for young lawyers and,
obviously, is cognizant of accommodating and reaching out to lawyers
with disabilities. It will most certainly be worth while.
Best,
Bill Phelan
_____
From: McCall, Jill Eckert
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:02 PM
To: Phelan, William
Subject: RE: Spring Conference
Hi Bill!
Yes, disabled lawyers are included. Review
http://www.abanet.org/yld/spring08/diversitysummit.html for details and
subscribe to the list serve so we'll keep you in the loop as the
planning unfolds.
The vignette form will be available online soon, and if you can get some
disabled attorneys (young lawyers or those who can recollect a story
from when they were young lawyers) to submit their stories, that would
ensure that the stories we discuss and comment on at the event
incorporate their needs and interests.
Thanks, and have a nice weekend.
Jill
_____
From: Phelan, William
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 8:43 AM
To: McCall, Jill Eckert
Subject: Spring Conference
Hi Jill,
Hope you had a good holiday.
As a member, I plan on attending the YLD spring conference here in DC.
The diversity event was recently brought to my attention, but the
website doesn't contain much detail for the agenda. I was wondering if
you plan on having disabled lawyers included? We here at the Commission
would be happy to provide assistance.
Thanks,
Bill
______________________________________________
William J. Phelan, IV, Esq.
Special Projects & Technology Coordinator
Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law
American Bar Association
vox: 202.662.1576
fax: 202.662.1032
phelanw at staff.abanet.org
http://www.abanet.org/disability
______________________________________________
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
- Martin Luther King, Jr.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:01:51 -0800
From: "albert griffith"
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I've studied the matter extensively and you're right. Image only files
can't be converted.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr.
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:52 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
I think that terminology may be clouding the issue here.
It is my understanding that currently there are no programs that will
convert files that are purely "image, i.e. no readable text in the file --
files that look like pictures. Indeed, on these type of documents using
adobe 8.1 to convert the document returns a result of "empty document." It
is my understanding that only files with embedded text can be converted by
any program currently available.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 5:38 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
Well, because I hope Ronza is right, and because I respect her acumen, I
tried to look into this a bit. I have JAWS version 9 and the latest adobe
reader 8.1 or whatever. First, I looked in the JAWS help file under acrobat
but there was no mention that later versions of the reader would offer to
convert image files. Arguably it would be adobe and not JAWS that would
advertise this feature so I thought I would open an image file that I have
not been able to read without running it through K1000 first. I was not
offered a conversion option by adobe. I loaded the adobe software before
updating JAWS and I suppose that might make a difference. I also wonder if
you, Ronza are using the adobe free software or if you actually own the
acrobat professional product?
Perhaps you said and I missed it. At any rate, what Tim has mentioned would
be a great benefit to many of us I am sure, but perhaps one needs the
professional product to gain that advantage.
Jim McCarthy
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 5:29 PM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
Steve,
Are you using Jaws 8 or 9? I believe that's a requirement. Jaws 7 and
below does not convert the document. The prompt says something like "This
document appears to be an image. Would you like Adobe to run a character
scan to convert the image to text?"
I checked a box that tells Adobe to automatically convert all image files
to text, so I can't get the exact language of the prompt anymore.
Good luck.
Regards,
Ronza
In a message dated 1/6/2008 4:14:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,
steve.jacobson at visi.com writes:
Please explain this further because I think we're talking about two
different things in this thread. The ability to create PDF documents that
contains both the original image and the text has been around for a while.
I do not know of Acrobat supported it or not but it was an option at least
in OmniPage when used to create PDF's.
I just tried to read a document that was only an image a week ago or so
with Acrobat Reader 8.1.1. There was no option to extract text from the
document that I was aware of, but I was able to convert the document to
text using an OmniPage option so I know the text was recognizable. This
would be very handy if Adobe built in such a feature, though. Would you
describe where you were prompted for the conversion option? Are you
certain you were not hearing the "document being processed" message that
accompanies the normal extraction of text? Maybe I missed something.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:15:07 -0800, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. wrote:
>The version you want is Adobe 8.1. you can download it from the Adobe
>website.
>The advantage is that this program will convert certain PDF documents
>to text, documents which cannot be converted by the use of other
>programs. The disadvantage is that the document must be saved as a
>text file, thereby losing the formatting of the original document.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
>Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:01 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
>I have not experienced what you describe on my free Adobe Reader
>software, which is version 8 something. If the material is image
>only, then JAWS indicates that, but Adobe does not give me the option
>of converting to text. Perhaps there is some setting in the Adobe
>Reader software that needs to be turned on in order to get the prompt
>you describe? This would be wonderful news. While the virtual
>Freedom Import printer works well enough, converting through Openbook,
>this new approach sounds even better, and especially for large
>documents, where converting through Openbook can take awhile. So if
>you happen to know how to activate this feature, please let me know.
>Tim Ford
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com
>Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:53 AM
>To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
>Tim and All,
>
>I noticed this a few months ago. The newer versions of Adobe (8.0 and
>above) now have a feature that recognizes screen reading software, in
>my experience Jaws 8.0 and beyond. Once I download an image file,
>Adobe recognizes that there is text and asks if I want it to try to
>convert the file to OCR-enabled. Once I do, it very quickly
>processes the image and converts it. I've done this with briefs,
>receipts, and even exhibits. In fact, I've not used my virtual printer
>once since I upgraded to the new version of Adobe.
>
>This means that you don't necessarily need Adobe Professional on any
>machine. The standard free addition works wonderfully. It's made my
>work much easier and saved me a great deal of time.
>
>Regards,
>Ronza
>
>
>
>In a message dated 1/6/2008 12:46:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov writes:
>I recently discovered, quite by accident, a new scanning option that
>may be of interest.
>My office recently installed Adobe Acrobat 8 Professional, Version
>8.0.0, on the computer with the scanner that I have been using to
>create PDF versions of briefs an other material I need to send to
>others electronically. I had my assistant scan in a brief that I was
>to file electronically.
>I pulled up the results, just to print it and have my assistant make
>sure all the pages were there. To my surprise, JAWS started
>automatically reading the document. I had my assistant check, and on
>the screen, and what we printed, was the typical image only format,
>with my scrawled signature and all.
>so apparently what this new version of Adobe has is the capacity to
>add a quite good optical character recognition of the text. The
>recognition quality was quite good, better than what I am used to with
>OpenBook.
>So the advantages of this is that:
>1. You have a PDF file with the actual intact original, so if there
>are any scan errors to figure out, you have the original there for a
>sighted person to review.
>2. You also have the actual original that you can print and/or send
>electronically to others. If the person you send it to does not use
>a screen reading program, then they will not notice any difference
>between what they see and any other Adobe PDF image only scan.
>3. If the recipient has a screen reader installed, then Adobe knows
>that, and automatically turns on the converted text imbedded
>information.
>Oh yes, and there is yet another neat aspect. Although the Adobe
>text conversion itself is not something you can edit, all you do is
>select whatever text you want, including using control plus a to
select all,
>and paste that in to a Word document. That gives you everything
that
>the Adobe text recognition picked up.
>For my Adobe reader software, I have the typical free reader version,
>so you do not need to have the Adobe Professional version installed
>except on the machine that has the scanner on it.
>I do not know the cost of the Adobe Professional version software.
>However, this is the typical software product that most offices now
>use, and is certainly something that would be affordable by most any
>office of any size.
>Sincerely,
>Tim Ford
>_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:20:09 EST
From: AZNOR99 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm sorry to have given everyone hope. I still don't know why the files I
have convert. However, Jim did send a file, and it did not do the usual
magical conversion. Perhaps the file has to be text imbedded in an image. Does
anyone else know what I was talking about though? Has anyone else had the
program offer to convert the file to OCR-ready?
Ronza
In a message dated 1/7/2008 5:03:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
albertpgriffith at hotmail.com writes:
I've studied the matter extensively and you're right. Image only files
can't be converted.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr.
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:52 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
I think that terminology may be clouding the issue here.
It is my understanding that currently there are no programs that will
convert files that are purely "image, i.e. no readable text in the file --
files that look like pictures. Indeed, on these type of documents using
adobe 8.1 to convert the document returns a result of "empty document." It
is my understanding that only files with embedded text can be converted by
any program currently available.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 5:38 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
Well, because I hope Ronza is right, and because I respect her acumen, I
tried to look into this a bit. I have JAWS version 9 and the latest adobe
reader 8.1 or whatever. First, I looked in the JAWS help file under acrobat
but there was no mention that later versions of the reader would offer to
convert image files. Arguably it would be adobe and not JAWS that would
advertise this feature so I thought I would open an image file that I have
not been able to read without running it through K1000 first. I was not
offered a conversion option by adobe. I loaded the adobe software before
updating JAWS and I suppose that might make a difference. I also wonder if
you, Ronza are using the adobe free software or if you actually own the
acrobat professional product?
Perhaps you said and I missed it. At any rate, what Tim has mentioned would
be a great benefit to many of us I am sure, but perhaps one needs the
professional product to gain that advantage.
Jim McCarthy
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 5:29 PM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
Steve,
Are you using Jaws 8 or 9? I believe that's a requirement. Jaws 7 and
below does not convert the document. The prompt says something like "This
document appears to be an image. Would you like Adobe to run a character
scan to convert the image to text?"
I checked a box that tells Adobe to automatically convert all image files
to text, so I can't get the exact language of the prompt anymore.
Good luck.
Regards,
Ronza
In a message dated 1/6/2008 4:14:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,
steve.jacobson at visi.com writes:
Please explain this further because I think we're talking about two
different things in this thread. The ability to create PDF documents that
contains both the original image and the text has been around for a while.
I do not know of Acrobat supported it or not but it was an option at least
in OmniPage when used to create PDF's.
I just tried to read a document that was only an image a week ago or so
with Acrobat Reader 8.1.1. There was no option to extract text from the
document that I was aware of, but I was able to convert the document to
text using an OmniPage option so I know the text was recognizable. This
would be very handy if Adobe built in such a feature, though. Would you
describe where you were prompted for the conversion option? Are you
certain you were not hearing the "document being processed" message that
accompanies the normal extraction of text? Maybe I missed something.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:15:07 -0800, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. wrote:
>The version you want is Adobe 8.1. you can download it from the Adobe
>website.
>The advantage is that this program will convert certain PDF documents
>to text, documents which cannot be converted by the use of other
>programs. The disadvantage is that the document must be saved as a
>text file, thereby losing the formatting of the original document.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
>Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:01 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New Scanning Option
>I have not experienced what you describe on my free Adobe Reader
>software, which is version 8 something. If the material is image
>only, then JAWS indicates that, but Adobe does not give me the option
=== message truncated ===
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