[blindlaw] Environmental zealots and teh silent vehicle issue
albert griffith
albertpgriffith at hotmail.com
Wed Feb 27 12:27:34 CST 2008
Scott, I couldn't agree with you more. Whether the number of these cars is
increasing due to global warming isn't relevant. We need to find a way to
be able to hear them.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:44 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Environmental zealots and teh silent vehicle issue
Greetings:
I have enjoyed the debate raging here but fear that perhaps it may be on
the virge of spinning off into unproductive teritory. Quiet cars have had
the unintended consequence of posing an environmental hazard to the blind.
We have been careful to state that we do not oppose, and in fact support,
efforts to make our world more eco friendly. We just require that the
vehicles emit some sound so that we can detect their presence. That is the
sum and substance of our argument. The cause of global warming is not
relevant to our issue. Whether humans are causing increased temperatures or
some cyclical phenominum or some combination of both, no one, and certainly
not us, should oppose efforts to conserve global resources and make the
global environment cleaner. So, unless I am missing something, I think we
are all agreed that now is the time to raise the issue of quiet cars and
their unintended side effect as more and more of them are deployed
On a related note, I monitor Google Alerts on news items affecting the
blind. Over the last couple of weeks, hundreds of stories have appeared
world wide on this topic. This issue certainly has served the purpose of
bringing greater attention to the the ways in which blind individuals use
laternative techniques and cues to navigate the world. None of the articles
that I have seen has misconstrued our position and cast us in the light of
opposing more eco friendly automobiles. I am confident that we can
ultimately secure a solution to this issue. Meanwhile, we are getting a
great deal of good press and therewith the ability to educate millions upon
millions of people.
Finally, my two cents worth is that we shouldn't get to distractecd by
attempting to prove who is right about the causes of global warming etc
because that is a debate that may never end. Our focus should remain on
making quiet cars just a little less quiet.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce E. Naccari" <bnaccari at cox.net>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: <blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:52 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] Environmental zealots and teh silent vehicle issue
> Debating whether or not global warming is happening or not and to what
> extent it is caused by avoidable human behaviors or can be reversed or
> slowed by our actions ios truly interesting. I think we are surely in
> aphase of global warming that poses grave danger o humanity so anything
> we can do no matter how small to slow or reverse it even slightly shuld be
> done. But I certainly hope this debate does not mean some think that the
> issue of global warming should be entangled with the issue fo dangerously
> silent vehicles. Advocates for adding cognizable sound to silent vehicles
> should carefully avoid making it appear we who want cars to sund like
> cars are opponents fo global warming theories. Attacking silent cars by
> attacking global warming theories or environmentalists will merely ensure
> lsong th fight for cars that emit life-saving sound. Since most of the
> public agrees now with Al Gore, blind folk will seem like anti-scientific
> cranks or oil company stooges or worse if!
> we say lowring carbon emissions is unnecessary. Stay neutral. We shoudl
> not oppose hybrids as unnecessary; we simply want some audible indicators
> fo cars in motion.--Bruce E. Naccari
> ---- blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
>> Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org
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>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Dennis Clark)
>> 2. Re: 'environmental zealots' (Craig Borne)
>> 3. Re: blindlaw Digest, Vol 45, Issue 16 (ger sadlier)
>> 4. Re: blindlaw Digest, Vol 45, Issue 16 (Stephanie Ortoleva)
>> 5. Re: blindlaw Digest, Vol 45, Issue 16 (Edward L. Myers III)
>> 6. Re: blindlaw Digest, Vol 45, Issue 16 (Dennis Clark)
>> 7. Re: blindlaw Digest, Vol 45, Issue 16 (Edward L. Myers III)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:29:38 -0800
>> From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Message-ID: <015e01c877ed$253390b0$6601a8c0 at computer1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> Craig,
>> Do you have a citation for your source that "there are an equal number of
>> scientists that view global warming with suspicion than hail it is a
>> legitimate threat"? Also, the evidence code in all the states where I am
>> licensed give as much creditability to circumstantial evidence as direct
>> evidence. There are many people sitting in prison currently who wish
>> that
>> wasn't true.
>> Dennis
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Craig Borne" <cjborne at comcast.net>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>>
>>
>> > With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that view
>> > global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> > Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> > with
>> > inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> > This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is
>> > in
>> > no
>> > way a scientific fact. Global warming is still a theory, and as such,
>> > the
>> > merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement. Folks
>> > with
>> > a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> > just
>> > as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with so
>> > many
>> > experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> > To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> > circumstantial
>> > at best, not direct.
>> > Craig
>> >
>> > Craig Borne
>> > Baltimore, Maryland
>> > cjborne at comcast.net
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> > On
>> > Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >
>> > Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> > absurd.
>> >
>> > Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> > burying his head in the sand.
>> >
>> > Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> > would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> >
>> > In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people
>> > are
>> > extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> > unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> > (no pun intended given the list.)
>> >
>> > As to the 'quiet car'
>> > 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a
>> > mennace
>> > 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> > leading
>> > to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> >
>> > implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard
>> > blind
>> > and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory
>> > to
>> > keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> >
>> > It really is off the wall.
>> >
>> > G
>> >
>> > Send instant messages to your online friends
>> > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindlaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:14:55 -0500
>> From: "Craig Borne" <cjborne at comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zealots'
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Message-ID: <001a01c877f3$78400940$0200a8c0 at computer>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Dennis,
>> I don't have a scientific citation, if that is what you are seeking.
>> This
>> information is freely discussed in non-scientific articles dealing with
>> the
>> subject. As a lawyer, I understand and accept that I am not a scientist.
>> And just to clarify, my post was on the discussion of environmental
>> zealots,
>> not whether or not global warming as a natural cycle exists. The
>> circumstantial evidence goes to the "man being responsible" for the
>> phenomenon. True you can convict on circumstantial evidence, but if your
>> circumstantial evidence is flimsy, you will undoubtedly be laughed out of
>> court.
>> Regards,
>> Craig
>>
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> cjborne at comcast.net
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Dennis Clark
>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 3:30 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>>
>> Craig,
>> Do you have a citation for your source that "there are an equal number of
>> scientists that view global warming with suspicion than hail it is a
>> legitimate threat"? Also, the evidence code in all the states where I am
>> licensed give as much creditability to circumstantial evidence as direct
>> evidence. There are many people sitting in prison currently who wish
>> that
>> wasn't true.
>> Dennis
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Craig Borne" <cjborne at comcast.net>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>>
>>
>> > With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that view
>> > global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> > Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> > with
>> > inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> > This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is
>> > in
>> > no
>> > way a scientific fact. Global warming is still a theory, and as such,
>> > the
>> > merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement. Folks
>> > with
>> > a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> > just
>> > as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with so
>> > many
>> > experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> > To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> > circumstantial
>> > at best, not direct.
>> > Craig
>> >
>> > Craig Borne
>> > Baltimore, Maryland
>> > cjborne at comcast.net
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> > On
>> > Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >
>> > Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> > absurd.
>> >
>> > Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> > burying his head in the sand.
>> >
>> > Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> > would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> >
>> > In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people
>> > are
>> > extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> > unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> > (no pun intended given the list.)
>> >
>> > As to the 'quiet car'
>> > 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a
>> > mennace
>> > 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> > leading
>> > to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> >
>> > implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard
>> > blind
>> > and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory
>> > to
>> > keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> >
>> > It really is off the wall.
>> >
>> > G
>> >
>> > Send instant messages to your online friends
>> > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindlaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 21:18:43 +0000 (GMT)
>> From: ger sadlier <gersadlier at yahoo.ie>
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blindlaw Digest, Vol 45, Issue 16
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Message-ID: <784327.72870.qm at web26008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> On re reading my previous e-mail, it may have been a bit 'strongly'
>> worded.
>>
>> OI don't retract any of the centiments however and I agree with every
>> word of Chris's e-mail.
>>
>> Even if we were wrong about global warming, I would argue that its
>> better on the side that will save the planit, not that which puts our
>> planit in danger.
>>
>> Finally regarding the high-bread car, is their a clear and present
>> danger of the production of a vehicle which puts life at risk, presumably
>> through being noiseless?
>>
>> Unless such is likely in the near future, regulating against the
>> possibility is like boulting the stable door before the horse has even
>> had the chance to come in.
>>
>> Perhaps, in the U.S. there is such a threat though, in which case good
>> luck.
>>
>> Gerard
>>
>>
>> blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
>> Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: 'environmental zelots' (ger sadlier)
>> 2. Re: 'environmental zealots' (David Andrews)
>> 3. Re: 'environmental zealots' (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.)
>> 4. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Craig Borne)
>> 5. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Mike Freeman)
>> 6. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Chris Danielsen)
>> 7. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.)
>> 8. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Chris Danielsen)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:28:49 +0000 (GMT)
>> From: ger sadlier
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Message-ID: <290021.77768.qm at web26004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>>
>> Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> burying his head in the sand.
>>
>> Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>>
>> In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people are
>> extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> (no pun intended given the list.)
>>
>> As to the 'quiet car'
>> 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without leading
>> to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>>
>> implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard blind
>> and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory to
>> keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>>
>> It really is off the wall.
>>
>> G
>>
>> Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>> ?
>> Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> burying his head in the sand.
>> ?
>> Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> ?
>> In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people are
>> extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> (no pun intended given the list.)
>> ?
>> As to the 'quiet car'
>> 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without leading
>> to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> ?
>> implying?that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard blind
>> and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory to
>> keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> ?
>> It really is off the wall.
>> ?
>> G
>> Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 12:34:40 -0600
>> From: David Andrews
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zealots'
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>>
>> Most of the public sees it, it is our current bone-headed
>> administration that is the problem.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 12:28 PM 2/24/2008, you wrote:
>> >Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> >absurd.
>> >
>> > Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the
>> > austridge burying his head in the sand.
>> >
>> > Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue,
>> > though it would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> >
>> > In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that
>> > people are extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S.
>> > public are unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> > (no pun intended given the list.)
>> >
>> > As to the 'quiet car'
>> > 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> > 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> > leading to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> >
>> > implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to
>> > safeguard blind and visually impaired people is like saying that
>> > you need that factory to keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can
>> > smell its existence.
>> >
>> > It really is off the wall.
>> >
>> > G
>> >
>> > Send instant messages to your online friends
>> > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >blindlaw mailing list
>> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> >
>> >No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date:
>> >2/23/2008 9:35 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:06:44 -0800
>> From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr."
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zealots'
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
>> Message-ID: <000601c87718$65705440$1602a8c0 at RJT>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> It might be helpful if there was an effort made to educate the three
>> remaining presidential candidates on the issue with the hope that
>> something
>> might be accomplished in 2009, if no action is taken this year.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of David Andrews
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 10:35 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zealots'
>>
>> Most of the public sees it, it is our current bone-headed
>> administration that is the problem.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 12:28 PM 2/24/2008, you wrote:
>> >Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>> >
>> > Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the
>> > austridge burying his head in the sand.
>> >
>> > Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue,
>> > though it would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> >
>> > In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that
>> > people are extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S.
>> > public are unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> > (no pun intended given the list.)
>> >
>> > As to the 'quiet car'
>> > 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> > 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> > leading to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> >
>> > implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to
>> > safeguard blind and visually impaired people is like saying that
>> > you need that factory to keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can
>> > smell its existence.
>> >
>> > It really is off the wall.
>> >
>> > G
>> >
>> > Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >blindlaw mailing list
>> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> >
>> >No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date:
>> >2/23/2008 9:35 PM
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:45:14 -0500
>> From: "Craig Borne"
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
>> Message-ID: <002501c8771d$c7cbd380$0200a8c0 at computer>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that view
>> global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> with
>> inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is in
>> no
>> way a scientific fact. Global warming is still a theory, and as such, the
>> merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement. Folks
>> with
>> a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> just
>> as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with so
>> many
>> experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> circumstantial
>> at best, not direct.
>> Craig
>>
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> cjborne at comcast.net
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>>
>> Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>>
>> Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> burying his head in the sand.
>>
>> Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>>
>> In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people are
>> extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> (no pun intended given the list.)
>>
>> As to the 'quiet car'
>> 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without leading
>> to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>>
>> implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard blind
>> and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory to
>> keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>>
>> It really is off the wall.
>>
>> G
>>
>> Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:51:49 -0800
>> From: "Mike Freeman"
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"
>> Message-ID: <000c01c8772f$76131730$014bbd43 at owner96190708e>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Right on!
>>
>> Let's here it for the 1500-year solar cycle! And we aren't nearly as wrm
>> as we were in the Medieval Warming Period (900-1300 A.D.) yet!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Craig Borne
>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>>
>>
>> With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that
>> view
>> global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> with
>> inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is
>> in no
>> way a scientific fact. Global warming is still a theory, and as such,
>> the
>> merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement. Folks
>> with
>> a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> just
>> as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with
>> so many
>> experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> circumstantial
>> at best, not direct.
>> Craig
>>
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> cjborne at comcast.net
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>>
>> Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>>
>> Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the
>> austridge
>> burying his head in the sand.
>>
>> Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though
>> it
>> would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>>
>> In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that
>> people are
>> extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> (no pun intended given the list.)
>>
>> As to the 'quiet car'
>> 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a
>> mennace
>> 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> leading
>> to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>>
>> implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard
>> blind
>> and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory
>> to
>> keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>>
>> It really is off the wall.
>>
>> G
>>
>> Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> Right on!
>> ?
>> Let's here it for the 1500-year solar cycle! And we aren't nearly as wrm
>> as we were in the Medieval Warming Period (900-1300 A.D.) yet!
>> ?
>> Mike
>> ?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:
>> mailto:cjborne at comcast.net Craig Borne
>> To:
>> mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>> Sent:
>> Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:45 AM
>> Subject:
>> Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that view
>> global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> with
>> inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is in
>> no
>> way a scientific fact.? Global warming is still a theory, and as such,
>> the
>> merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement.? Folks
>> with
>> a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> just
>> as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with so
>> many
>> experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> circumstantial
>> at best, not direct.
>> Craig
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> mailto:cjborne at comcast.net cjborne at comcast.net
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> To: mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>> ??
>> ? Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> burying his head in the sand.
>> ??
>> ? Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> ??
>> ? In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people
>> are
>> extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> ? (no pun intended given the list.)
>> ??
>> ? As to the 'quiet car'
>> ? 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> ? 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> leading
>> to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> ??
>> ? implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard
>> blind
>> and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory to
>> keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> ??
>> ? It really is off the wall.
>> ??
>> ? G
>> ?Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:34:32 -0500
>> From: "Chris Danielsen"
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Craig,
>>
>> For what it's worth, and with due respect, I think the number of
>> scientists
>> who disagree with the prevailing theory of global warming is a distinct
>> minority, not an equal number to that of its proponents. Also, no one
>> really disagrees that global warming is occurring, the disagreement is
>> over
>> what causes it and whether it is a cyclical event driven by climatic
>> factors
>> that we can't control or a phenomenon caused by factors (namely the
>> emission
>> of greenhouse gases) that we can. Finally, it has become fashionable
>> nowadays to say that anything that is a scientific "theory," such as
>> evolution or global warming, is by definition not a fact. But the word
>> "theory" means something quite different in scientific discussion than it
>> means in conventional language. In science, a "theory" is a coherent
>> explanation of something based on the facts that we know through
>> observation
>> and study; it is not simply a guess. Theories may be incomplete, but they
>> aren't simply made up. They are based, as you say, often on
>> circumstantial
>> evidence. But if circumstantial evidence is enough to put a man to death
>> (as it often is), it should also be enough to serve as a legitimate
>> template
>> for a debate about changing environmental policy.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Craig Borne
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 2:45 PM
>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>>
>> With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that view
>> global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> with
>> inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is in
>> no
>> way a scientific fact. Global warming is still a theory, and as such, the
>> merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement. Folks
>> with
>> a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> just
>> as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with so
>> many
>> experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> circumstantial
>> at best, not direct.
>> Craig
>>
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> cjborne at comcast.net
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>>
>> Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>>
>> Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> burying his head in the sand.
>>
>> Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>>
>> In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people are
>> extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> (no pun intended given the list.)
>>
>> As to the 'quiet car'
>> 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without leading
>> to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>>
>> implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard blind
>>
>> === message truncated ===
>>
>> Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> On re reading my previous e-mail, it may have been a bit 'strongly'
>> worded.
>> ?
>> OI don't retract any of the centiments however and I agree with every
>> word of Chris's e-mail.
>> ?
>> Even if we were wrong about global warming, I would argue that its better
>> on the side that will save the planit, not that which puts our planit in
>> danger.
>> ?
>> Finally regarding the high-bread car, is their a clear and present danger
>> of the production of a vehicle which puts life at risk, presumably
>> through being noiseless?
>> ?
>> Unless such is likely in the near future, regulating against the
>> possibility is like boulting the stable door before the horse has even
>> had the chance to come in.
>> ?
>> Perhaps, in the U.S. there is such a threat though, in which case good
>> luck.
>> ?
>> Gerard
>> blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org
>> wrote:
>> Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..."
>> Today's Topics:
>> 1. Re: 'environmental zelots' (ger sadlier)
>> 2. Re: 'environmental zealots' (David Andrews)
>> 3. Re: 'environmental zealots' (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.)
>> 4. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Craig Borne)
>> 5. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Mike Freeman)
>> 6. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Chris Danielsen)
>> 7. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.)
>> 8. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Chris Danielsen)
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:28:49 +0000 (GMT)
>> From: ger sadlier
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Message-ID: <290021.77768.qm at web26004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>> Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> burying his head in the sand.
>> Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people are
>> extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> (no pun intended given the list.)
>> As to the 'quiet car'
>> 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without leading
>> to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard blind
>> and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory to
>> keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> It really is off the wall.
>> G
>> Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>> ?
>> Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> burying his head in the sand.
>> ?
>> Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> ?
>> In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people are
>> extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> (no pun intended given the list.)
>> ?
>> As to the 'quiet car'
>> 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without leading
>> to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> ?
>> implying?that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard blind
>> and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory to
>> keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> ?
>> It really is off the wall.
>> ?
>> G
>> Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> ------------------------------
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 12:34:40 -0600
>> From: David Andrews
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zealots'
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>> Most of the public sees it, it is our current bone-headed
>> administration that is the problem.
>> Dave
>> At 12:28 PM 2/24/2008, you wrote:
>> >Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> >absurd.
>> >
>> > Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the
>> > austridge burying his head in the sand.
>> >
>> > Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue,
>> > though it would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> >
>> > In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that
>> > people are extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S.
>> > public are unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> > (no pun intended given the list.)
>> >
>> > As to the 'quiet car'
>> > 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> > 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> > leading to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> >
>> > implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to
>> > safeguard blind and visually impaired people is like saying that
>> > you need that factory to keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can
>> > smell its existence.
>> >
>> > It really is off the wall.
>> >
>> > G
>> >
>> > Send instant messages to your online friends
>> > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >blindlaw mailing list
>> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> >
>> >No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date:
>> >2/23/2008 9:35 PM
>> ------------------------------
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:06:44 -0800
>> From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr."
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zealots'
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
>> Message-ID: <000601c87718$65705440$1602a8c0 at RJT>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> It might be helpful if there was an effort made to educate the three
>> remaining presidential candidates on the issue with the hope that
>> something
>> might be accomplished in 2009, if no action is taken this year.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of David Andrews
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 10:35 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zealots'
>> Most of the public sees it, it is our current bone-headed
>> administration that is the problem.
>> Dave
>> At 12:28 PM 2/24/2008, you wrote:
>> >Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>> >
>> > Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the
>> > austridge burying his head in the sand.
>> >
>> > Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue,
>> > though it would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> >
>> > In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that
>> > people are extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S.
>> > public are unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> > (no pun intended given the list.)
>> >
>> > As to the 'quiet car'
>> > 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> > 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> > leading to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> >
>> > implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to
>> > safeguard blind and visually impaired people is like saying that
>> > you need that factory to keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can
>> > smell its existence.
>> >
>> > It really is off the wall.
>> >
>> > G
>> >
>> > Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >blindlaw mailing list
>> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> >
>> >No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date:
>> >2/23/2008 9:35 PM
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> ------------------------------
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:45:14 -0500
>> From: "Craig Borne"
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
>> Message-ID: <002501c8771d$c7cbd380$0200a8c0 at computer>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that view
>> global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> with
>> inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is in
>> no
>> way a scientific fact. Global warming is still a theory, and as such, the
>> merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement. Folks
>> with
>> a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> just
>> as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with so
>> many
>> experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> circumstantial
>> at best, not direct.
>> Craig
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> cjborne at comcast.net
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>> Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> burying his head in the sand.
>> Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people are
>> extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> (no pun intended given the list.)
>> As to the 'quiet car'
>> 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without leading
>> to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard blind
>> and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory to
>> keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> It really is off the wall.
>> G
>> Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> ------------------------------
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:51:49 -0800
>> From: "Mike Freeman"
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"
>> Message-ID: <000c01c8772f$76131730$014bbd43 at owner96190708e>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> Right on!
>> Let's here it for the 1500-year solar cycle! And we aren't nearly as wrm
>> as we were in the Medieval Warming Period (900-1300 A.D.) yet!
>> Mike
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Craig Borne
>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that
>> view
>> global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> with
>> inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is
>> in no
>> way a scientific fact. Global warming is still a theory, and as such,
>> the
>> merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement. Folks
>> with
>> a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> just
>> as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with
>> so many
>> experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> circumstantial
>> at best, not direct.
>> Craig
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> cjborne at comcast.net
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>> Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the
>> austridge
>> burying his head in the sand.
>> Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though
>> it
>> would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that
>> people are
>> extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> (no pun intended given the list.)
>> As to the 'quiet car'
>> 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a
>> mennace
>> 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> leading
>> to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard
>> blind
>> and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory
>> to
>> keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> It really is off the wall.
>> G
>> Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> Right on!
>> ?
>> Let's here it for the 1500-year solar cycle! And we aren't nearly as wrm
>> as we were in the Medieval Warming Period (900-1300 A.D.) yet!
>> ?
>> Mike
>> ?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:
>> mailto:cjborne at comcast.net Craig Borne
>> To:
>> mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>> Sent:
>> Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:45 AM
>> Subject:
>> Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that view
>> global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> with
>> inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is in
>> no
>> way a scientific fact.? Global warming is still a theory, and as such,
>> the
>> merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement.? Folks
>> with
>> a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> just
>> as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with so
>> many
>> experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> circumstantial
>> at best, not direct.
>> Craig
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> mailto:cjborne at comcast.net cjborne at comcast.net
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> To: mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>> ??
>> ? Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> burying his head in the sand.
>> ??
>> ? Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> ??
>> ? In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people
>> are
>> extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> ? (no pun intended given the list.)
>> ??
>> ? As to the 'quiet car'
>> ? 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> ? 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> leading
>> to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> ??
>> ? implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard
>> blind
>> and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory to
>> keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> ??
>> ? It really is off the wall.
>> ??
>> ? G
>> ?Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> ------------------------------
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:34:32 -0500
>> From: "Chris Danielsen"
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>> Craig,
>> For what it's worth, and with due respect, I think the number of
>> scientists
>> who disagree with the prevailing theory of global warming is a distinct
>> minority, not an equal number to that of its proponents. Also, no one
>> really disagrees that global warming is occurring, the disagreement is
>> over
>> what causes it and whether it is a cyclical event driven by climatic
>> factors
>> that we can't control or a phenomenon caused by factors (namely the
>> emission
>> of greenhouse gases) that we can. Finally, it has become fashionable
>> nowadays to say that anything that is a scientific "theory," such as
>> evolution or global warming, is by definition not a fact. But the word
>> "theory" means something quite different in scientific discussion than it
>> means in conventional language. In science, a "theory" is a coherent
>> explanation of something based on the facts that we know through
>> observation
>> and study; it is not simply a guess. Theories may be incomplete, but they
>> aren't simply made up. They are based, as you say, often on
>> circumstantial
>> evidence. But if circumstantial evidence is enough to put a man to death
>> (as it often is), it should also be enough to serve as a legitimate
>> template
>> for a debate about changing environmental policy.
>> Chris
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Craig Borne
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 2:45 PM
>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that view
>> global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> with
>> inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is in
>> no
>> way a scientific fact. Global warming is still a theory, and as such, the
>> merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement. Folks
>> with
>> a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> just
>> as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with so
>> many
>> experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> circumstantial
>> at best, not direct.
>> Craig
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> cjborne at comcast.net
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> absurd.
>> Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> burying his head in the sand.
>> Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people are
>> extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> (no pun intended given the list.)
>> As to the 'quiet car'
>> 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without leading
>> to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard blind
>> === message truncated ===
>> Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:52:12 -0500
>> From: Stephanie Ortoleva <womankind at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blindlaw Digest, Vol 45, Issue 16
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>,
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Message-ID: <E1JU1AC-0004cp-Ru at elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>>
>> My heavens, I am amazed. I must say that the posts below range from
>> the rediculous to the absurd. Describing global warming as a fantacy
>> is equivalent to the austridge burying her or his head in the sand,
>> as another colleague says.
>>
>> Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> would have been better had we started 10 years ago. I never can
>> understand why people just don't seem to get science over mythology.
>>
>> As blind people, we have learned to adjust to the change from the
>> horse and buggy to the car and I'd guess we can develop techniques to
>> address this one too.
>>
>> Stephanie
>>
>>
>> At 04:18 PM 2/25/2008, ger sadlier wrote:
>> >On re reading my previous e-mail, it may have been a bit 'strongly'
>> >worded.
>> >
>> > OI don't retract any of the centiments however and I agree with
>> > every word of Chris's e-mail.
>> >
>> > Even if we were wrong about global warming, I would argue that
>> > its better on the side that will save the planit, not that which
>> > puts our planit in danger.
>> >
>> > Finally regarding the high-bread car, is their a clear and
>> > present danger of the production of a vehicle which puts life at
>> > risk, presumably through being noiseless?
>> >
>> > Unless such is likely in the near future, regulating against the
>> > possibility is like boulting the stable door before the horse has
>> > even had the chance to come in.
>> >
>> > Perhaps, in the U.S. there is such a threat though, in which case
>> > good luck.
>> >
>> > Gerard
>> >
>> >
>> >blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
>> > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to
>> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >
>> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org
>> >
>> >You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org
>> >
>> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> >than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> >Today's Topics:
>> >
>> >1. Re: 'environmental zelots' (ger sadlier)
>> >2. Re: 'environmental zealots' (David Andrews)
>> >3. Re: 'environmental zealots' (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.)
>> >4. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Craig Borne)
>> >5. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Mike Freeman)
>> >6. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Chris Danielsen)
>> >7. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.)
>> >8. Re: 'environmental zelots' (Chris Danielsen)
>> >
>> >
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >Message: 1
>> >Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:28:49 +0000 (GMT)
>> >From: ger sadlier
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >Message-ID: <290021.77768.qm at web26004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> >Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> >absurd.
>> >
>> >Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the
>> >austridge burying his head in the sand.
>> >
>> >Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though
>> >it would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> >
>> >In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that
>> >people are extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S.
>> >public are unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> >(no pun intended given the list.)
>> >
>> >As to the 'quiet car'
>> >1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> >2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> >leading to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> >
>> >implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard
>> >blind and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that
>> >factory to keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> >
>> >It really is off the wall.
>> >
>> >G
>> >
>> >Send instant messages to your online friends
>> >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> >-------------- next part --------------
>> >Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> >absurd.
>> >?
>> >Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the
>> >austridge burying his head in the sand.
>> >?
>> >Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though
>> >it would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> >?
>> >In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that
>> >people are extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S.
>> >public are unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> >(no pun intended given the list.)
>> >?
>> >As to the 'quiet car'
>> >1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> >2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> >leading to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> >?
>> >implying?that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard
>> >blind and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that
>> >factory to keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> >?
>> >It really is off the wall.
>> >?
>> >G
>> >Send instant messages to your online friends
>> >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >------------------------------
>> >
>> >Message: 2
>> >Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 12:34:40 -0600
>> >From: David Andrews
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zealots'
>> >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> >Message-ID:
>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>> >
>> >Most of the public sees it, it is our current bone-headed
>> >administration that is the problem.
>> >
>> >Dave
>> >
>> >At 12:28 PM 2/24/2008, you wrote:
>> > >Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> > >absurd.
>> > >
>> > > Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the
>> > > austridge burying his head in the sand.
>> > >
>> > > Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue,
>> > > though it would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> > >
>> > > In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that
>> > > people are extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S.
>> > > public are unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> > > (no pun intended given the list.)
>> > >
>> > > As to the 'quiet car'
>> > > 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a
>> > > mennace
>> > > 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> > > leading to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> > >
>> > > implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to
>> > > safeguard blind and visually impaired people is like saying that
>> > > you need that factory to keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can
>> > > smell its existence.
>> > >
>> > > It really is off the wall.
>> > >
>> > > G
>> > >
>> > > Send instant messages to your online friends
>> > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> > >
>> > >_______________________________________________
>> > >blindlaw mailing list
>> > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> > >
>> > >No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date:
>> > >2/23/2008 9:35 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >------------------------------
>> >
>> >Message: 3
>> >Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:06:44 -0800
>> >From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr."
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zealots'
>> >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
>> >Message-ID: <000601c87718$65705440$1602a8c0 at RJT>
>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >
>> >It might be helpful if there was an effort made to educate the three
>> >remaining presidential candidates on the issue with the hope that
>> >something
>> >might be accomplished in 2009, if no action is taken this year.
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >On
>> >Behalf Of David Andrews
>> >Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 10:35 AM
>> >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zealots'
>> >
>> >Most of the public sees it, it is our current bone-headed
>> >administration that is the problem.
>> >
>> >Dave
>> >
>> >At 12:28 PM 2/24/2008, you wrote:
>> > >Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> >absurd.
>> > >
>> > > Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the
>> > > austridge burying his head in the sand.
>> > >
>> > > Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue,
>> > > though it would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> > >
>> > > In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that
>> > > people are extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S.
>> > > public are unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> > > (no pun intended given the list.)
>> > >
>> > > As to the 'quiet car'
>> > > 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a
>> > > mennace
>> > > 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> > > leading to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> > >
>> > > implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to
>> > > safeguard blind and visually impaired people is like saying that
>> > > you need that factory to keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can
>> > > smell its existence.
>> > >
>> > > It really is off the wall.
>> > >
>> > > G
>> > >
>> > > Send instant messages to your online friends
>> >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> > >
>> > >_______________________________________________
>> > >blindlaw mailing list
>> > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> > >
>> > >No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date:
>> > >2/23/2008 9:35 PM
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >blindlaw mailing list
>> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >------------------------------
>> >
>> >Message: 4
>> >Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:45:14 -0500
>> >From: "Craig Borne"
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
>> >Message-ID: <002501c8771d$c7cbd380$0200a8c0 at computer>
>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >
>> >With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that view
>> >global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> >Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> >with
>> >inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> >This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is in
>> >no
>> >way a scientific fact. Global warming is still a theory, and as such,
>> >the
>> >merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement. Folks
>> >with
>> >a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> >just
>> >as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with so
>> >many
>> >experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> >To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> >circumstantial
>> >at best, not direct.
>> >Craig
>> >
>> >Craig Borne
>> >Baltimore, Maryland
>> >cjborne at comcast.net
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >On
>> >Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> >Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> >To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >
>> >Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> >absurd.
>> >
>> >Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> >burying his head in the sand.
>> >
>> >Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> >would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> >
>> >In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people
>> >are
>> >extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> >unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> >(no pun intended given the list.)
>> >
>> >As to the 'quiet car'
>> >1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> >2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without leading
>> >to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> >
>> >implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard
>> >blind
>> >and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory
>> >to
>> >keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> >
>> >It really is off the wall.
>> >
>> >G
>> >
>> >Send instant messages to your online friends
>> >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >------------------------------
>> >
>> >Message: 5
>> >Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:51:49 -0800
>> >From: "Mike Freeman"
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"
>> >Message-ID: <000c01c8772f$76131730$014bbd43 at owner96190708e>
>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> >Right on!
>> >
>> >Let's here it for the 1500-year solar cycle! And we aren't nearly as wrm
>> >as we were in the Medieval Warming Period (900-1300 A.D.) yet!
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: Craig Borne
>> >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>> >Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:45 AM
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >
>> >
>> >With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that
>> >view
>> >global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> >Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> >with
>> >inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> >This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is
>> >in no
>> >way a scientific fact. Global warming is still a theory, and as such,
>> >the
>> >merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement. Folks
>> >with
>> >a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> >just
>> >as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with
>> >so many
>> >experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> >To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> >circumstantial
>> >at best, not direct.
>> >Craig
>> >
>> >Craig Borne
>> >Baltimore, Maryland
>> >cjborne at comcast.net
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >On
>> >Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> >Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> >To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >
>> >Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> >absurd.
>> >
>> >Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the
>> >austridge
>> >burying his head in the sand.
>> >
>> >Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though
>> >it
>> >would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> >
>> >In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that
>> >people are
>> >extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> >unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> >(no pun intended given the list.)
>> >
>> >As to the 'quiet car'
>> >1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a
>> >mennace
>> >2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> >leading
>> >to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> >
>> >implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard
>> >blind
>> >and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory
>> >to
>> >keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> >
>> >It really is off the wall.
>> >
>> >G
>> >
>> >Send instant messages to your online friends
>> >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >blindlaw mailing list
>> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> >-------------- next part --------------
>> >Right on!
>> >?
>> >Let's here it for the 1500-year solar cycle! And we aren't nearly as
>> >wrm as we were in the Medieval Warming Period (900-1300 A.D.) yet!
>> >?
>> >Mike
>> >?
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From:
>> >mailto:cjborne at comcast.net Craig Borne
>> >To:
>> >mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>> >Sent:
>> >Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:45 AM
>> >Subject:
>> >Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that view
>> >global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> >Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> >with
>> >inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> >This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is in
>> >no
>> >way a scientific fact.? Global warming is still a theory, and as such,
>> >the
>> >merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement.? Folks
>> >with
>> >a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> >just
>> >as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with so
>> >many
>> >experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> >To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> >circumstantial
>> >at best, not direct.
>> >Craig
>> >Craig Borne
>> >Baltimore, Maryland
>> >mailto:cjborne at comcast.net cjborne at comcast.net
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> >Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> >To: mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> >absurd.
>> >??
>> >? Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> >burying his head in the sand.
>> >??
>> >? Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> >would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> >??
>> >? In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people
>> >are
>> >extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> >unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> >? (no pun intended given the list.)
>> >??
>> >? As to the 'quiet car'
>> >? 1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a
>> >mennace
>> >? 2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without
>> >leading
>> >to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> >??
>> >? implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard
>> >blind
>> >and visually impaired people is like saying that you need that factory
>> >to
>> >keep spewing toxic chemicals so we can smell its existence.
>> >??
>> >? It really is off the wall.
>> >??
>> >? G
>> >?Send instant messages to your online friends
>> >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >blindlaw mailing list
>> >mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>> >
>> >------------------------------
>> >
>> >Message: 6
>> >Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:34:32 -0500
>> >From: "Chris Danielsen"
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'"
>> >Message-ID:
>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>> >
>> >Craig,
>> >
>> >For what it's worth, and with due respect, I think the number of
>> >scientists
>> >who disagree with the prevailing theory of global warming is a distinct
>> >minority, not an equal number to that of its proponents. Also, no one
>> >really disagrees that global warming is occurring, the disagreement is
>> >over
>> >what causes it and whether it is a cyclical event driven by climatic
>> >factors
>> >that we can't control or a phenomenon caused by factors (namely the
>> >emission
>> >of greenhouse gases) that we can. Finally, it has become fashionable
>> >nowadays to say that anything that is a scientific "theory," such as
>> >evolution or global warming, is by definition not a fact. But the word
>> >"theory" means something quite different in scientific discussion than
>> >it
>> >means in conventional language. In science, a "theory" is a coherent
>> >explanation of something based on the facts that we know through
>> >observation
>> >and study; it is not simply a guess. Theories may be incomplete, but
>> >they
>> >aren't simply made up. They are based, as you say, often on
>> >circumstantial
>> >evidence. But if circumstantial evidence is enough to put a man to death
>> >(as it often is), it should also be enough to serve as a legitimate
>> >template
>> >for a debate about changing environmental policy.
>> >
>> >Chris
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >On
>> >Behalf Of Craig Borne
>> >Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 2:45 PM
>> >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >
>> >With all due respect, there are an equal number of scientists that view
>> >global warming with suspicion than hail it is a legitimate threat.
>> >Documentaries, such as Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," are peppered
>> >with
>> >inaccuracies but also include some verified truths.
>> >This matter is one of subjective speculation on both sides, but it is in
>> >no
>> >way a scientific fact. Global warming is still a theory, and as such,
>> >the
>> >merits of this theory are ripe for discussion and disagreement. Folks
>> >with
>> >a view against global warming should not be categorized as ostriches,
>> >just
>> >as proponents of global warming cannot claim a scientific truth with so
>> >many
>> >experts in the scientific community not acknowledging its existence.
>> >To bring it back to the purpose of the list, the evidence is
>> >circumstantial
>> >at best, not direct.
>> >Craig
>> >
>> >Craig Borne
>> >Baltimore, Maryland
>> >cjborne at comcast.net
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >On
>> >Behalf Of ger sadlier
>> >Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:29 PM
>> >To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 'environmental zelots'
>> >
>> >Hi, I must say that the posts below range from the rediculous to the
>> >absurd.
>> >
>> >Describing global warming as a fantacy is equivalent to the austridge
>> >burying his head in the sand.
>> >
>> >Its time the U.S. started to pull its weight on this issue, though it
>> >would have been better had they started 10 years ago.
>> >
>> >In Europe, we have taken serious steps and I can tell you that people
>> >are
>> >extremely tired of going the extra mile because the U.S. public are
>> >unwilling or unable to see the writing on the wall.
>> >(no pun intended given the list.)
>> >
>> >As to the 'quiet car'
>> >1. at least in the EU such cars aren't so quiet that they are a mennace
>> >2 some noise making device can be built in if necessary, without leading
>> >to the harmful emissions that currently characterize cars.
>> >
>> >implying that we need the current crop of gas guzzlers to safeguard
>> >blind
>> >
>> >=== message truncated ===
>> >
>> > Send instant messages to your online friends
>> > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:07:41 -0700
>> From: "Edward L. Myers III" <emyers at azdisabilitylaw.org>
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blindlaw Digest, Vol 45, Issue 16
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>><