[blindlaw] Cardinal Fitness Center

Sat Apr 5 21:42:39 CDT 2008

Ron,

I do think that this is an interesting topic and worth discussing.  I myself 
have never thought of using a fitness centre for the reason that I don't 
want to deal with the hassle that you are describing here.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Dixon" <peagoody at worldnet.att.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cardinal Fitness Center

> Thanks Rod:
>
> I think you capsulated my dilemma and the questions I tossed out for 
> debate.
> I was beginning to believe I framed my problem incorrectly because those 
> who
> responded seemed to be stuck on what I used as an example of how my last
> fitness center dealt with having a totally blind member.  Rather then how
> the Cardinal Fitness Center is choosing to address the problem.   You are
> correct I did not ask for, nor did I use any of the personal trainer's
> expertise even though the Florida center assigned one to shadow me.  In 
> the
> time since my last posting on this subject,I have inquired about 
> membership
> to most of the Fitness Center's within a 10 mile radius of my home and I
> discussed this matter several more times with the management of Cardinal.
> What I learned is there are a wide range of methods to accommodate someone
> blind, from not allowing membership, as with Cardinal.  In the case of 
> L.A.
> Fitness, the owner offered to work out with me for free if I came at 1pm,
> but if I came at a different time, he would need to charge me $50. over 
> the
> usual monthly fees to pay for the Personal Trainer.  Finally, St. James
> Fitness Center had an accommodation setup similar to what I had in Florida
> .  Although when asked, out of all the Fitness Centers I contacted in the
> south suburban area of Chicago, none of these facilities had any blind
> members .  hmm, I wonder why that is!  Oh, the last position from the
> Partner at Cardinal is they would allow me membership as long as I agreed 
> to
> pay for a Personal Trainer.  When I explained the cost of a personal 
> trainer
> 4 or 5 times a week would make membership cost prohibitive.  I was told 
> they
> knew I did not want the person to instruct or motivate me so the trainer's
> cost should be minimal.   Because of this, they would consider reducing my
> membership rate to coincide with what the Personal Trainer charged me.  I
> wonder if they spoke to the trainer about this because I was told I needed
> to agree on a contract with the personal trainer.  What a joke!
> I apologize for the long email response, and from the responses it seems 
> as
> if this is not an issue of importance to most of you.  Therefore, I'll 
> deal
> with the matter myself.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rod Alcidonis" <roddj12 at hotmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cardinal Fitness Center
>
>
> :I don't believe you guys are analyzing the question asked:
> :
> : He is seeking to know what remedies are available under the law if the
> : center believes that:
> : 1. Providing a personal trainer for orientation is not a reasonable
> : accommodation. He is not asking about the eventual use of that trainer.
> : 2. IF he is not provided with a trainer and refused membership, the
> argument
> : that he is an insurance liability would be denying him equal access to 
> the
> : facility. This is a public place and they are certainly under some
> : obligation to provide reasonable accommodations. I am not familiar with
> the
> : Law in this area so someone who is should take it from there.
> :
> :
> : The argument being marshaled here is that asking for a personal trainer 
> at
> a
> : gym to use the machines is analogous to asking for a hotel to provide a
> : staff to assist you to watch the TV in your room. Though  this is a 
> valid
> : argument, However, what is not valid is a hotel being allowed to refuse 
> to
> : provide a staff to assist you to know how the TV operates-- using the
> remote
> : control, etc. The latter would be a reasonable accommodation request, in
> my
> : view. but as others have pointed out, the former would arguably be
> : unreasonable. But, under the same analogy, if the hotel were to tell you
> : that as a blind person watching TV by yourself would be an insurance
> : liability (of course that wouldn't make sense), then I do believe this
> would
> : constitute an equal access violation.
> :
> : You would think that a competent in-house counsel should be able to 
> advise
> : them of what to do to comply, but you'll be surprised of the level of
> : ignorance that exist sometimes in these offices.
> :
> :  I thought I would contextualize the question so that the discussion can
> be
> : more targeted to his situation.
> :
> : Rod Alcidonis
> :
> : ----- Original Message ----- 
> : From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
> : To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> : Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:38 AM
> : Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cardinal Fitness Center
> :
> :
> : >I have used gyms and fitness centers for years.  Although I agree that
> : > orientation to the equipment is an appropriate request, once that is
> : > done, I do not believe an on-going free personal trainer is 
> reasonable.
> : > Part of the orientation would be to show you how the environment may
> : > change when people are using the equipment.
> : >
> : > -----Original Message-----
> : > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> : > On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
> : > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 7:10 AM
> : > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> : > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cardinal Fitness Center
> : >
> : > Wow, I have heard of difficulties running some of the various exercise
> : > machines in fitness centers, but I have never heard of a blind person
> : > needing a personal trainer to avoid hurting themselves or someone 
> else.
> : > Asking for someone to familiarize one with the machinery and the 
> layout
> : > to some degree seems reasonable, but expecting a personal trainer
> : > strikes me as excessive, especially since they are not providing
> : > personal training.  There are two parts to this issue, though, the 
> legal
> : > part and the practical part, and it's not easy to draw the line, and
> : > perhaps there are circumstances here of which I am not aware.
> : >
> : > On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:11:43 -1200, Ron Dixon wrote:
> : >
> : >>
> : >>Hi Gang:
> : >>
> : >>A question for anyone who has encountered this problem or know of this
> : >>problem.  I recently moved to the Chicago area from Florida and 
> finally
> : >
> : >>found a fitness
> : > center
> : > near my home.  When I called to inquire of membership, I informed the
> : > office manager of my blindness and my need for an accommodation.  I
> : > explained my fitness center in Florida provided me with a personal
> : > trainer who insured I did not injure myself using the equipment or
> : > injure someone else by possibly tripping them or tripping and falling
> : > onto someone.  Nevertheless, the arrangement worked and there was no
> : > extra cost.
> : >>
> : >>The manager at Cardinal, however, refuse to make a decision on 
> allowing
> : >
> : >>my membership and/or accommodations.  He passed the buck to his manger
> : >>who called
> : > me
> : > the following day and after listening to the same story told me he did
> : > not have the authority to offer accommodations and he will have one of
> : > the partners get into contact with me.  I am currently still waiting 
> on
> : > the partner's call.
> : >>
> : >>Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with the partner, or 
> in
> : > case the partner does not return my call?
> : >>
> : >
> : >
> : >
> : >
> : >
> : >
> : >
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