[blindlaw] Cardinal Fitness Center

Sun Apr 6 04:30:05 CDT 2008

Thanks Rod:

I think you capsulated my dilemma and the questions I tossed out for debate. 
I was beginning to believe I framed my problem incorrectly because those who 
responded seemed to be stuck on what I used as an example of how my last 
fitness center dealt with having a totally blind member.  Rather then how 
the Cardinal Fitness Center is choosing to address the problem.   You are 
correct I did not ask for, nor did I use any of the personal trainer's 
expertise even though the Florida center assigned one to shadow me.  In the 
time since my last posting on this subject,I have inquired about membership 
to most of the Fitness Center's within a 10 mile radius of my home and I 
discussed this matter several more times with the management of Cardinal. 
What I learned is there are a wide range of methods to accommodate someone 
blind, from not allowing membership, as with Cardinal.  In the case of L.A. 
Fitness, the owner offered to work out with me for free if I came at 1pm, 
but if I came at a different time, he would need to charge me $50. over the 
usual monthly fees to pay for the Personal Trainer.  Finally, St. James 
Fitness Center had an accommodation setup similar to what I had in Florida 
.  Although when asked, out of all the Fitness Centers I contacted in the 
south suburban area of Chicago, none of these facilities had any blind 
members .  hmm, I wonder why that is!  Oh, the last position from the 
Partner at Cardinal is they would allow me membership as long as I agreed to 
pay for a Personal Trainer.  When I explained the cost of a personal trainer 
4 or 5 times a week would make membership cost prohibitive.  I was told they 
knew I did not want the person to instruct or motivate me so the trainer's 
cost should be minimal.   Because of this, they would consider reducing my 
membership rate to coincide with what the Personal Trainer charged me.  I 
wonder if they spoke to the trainer about this because I was told I needed 
to agree on a contract with the personal trainer.  What a joke!
I apologize for the long email response, and from the responses it seems as 
if this is not an issue of importance to most of you.  Therefore, I'll deal 
with the matter myself.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rod Alcidonis" <roddj12 at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:36 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cardinal Fitness Center

:I don't believe you guys are analyzing the question asked:
:
: He is seeking to know what remedies are available under the law if the
: center believes that:
: 1. Providing a personal trainer for orientation is not a reasonable
: accommodation. He is not asking about the eventual use of that trainer.
: 2. IF he is not provided with a trainer and refused membership, the 
argument
: that he is an insurance liability would be denying him equal access to the
: facility. This is a public place and they are certainly under some
: obligation to provide reasonable accommodations. I am not familiar with 
the
: Law in this area so someone who is should take it from there.
:
:
: The argument being marshaled here is that asking for a personal trainer at 
a
: gym to use the machines is analogous to asking for a hotel to provide a
: staff to assist you to watch the TV in your room. Though  this is a valid
: argument, However, what is not valid is a hotel being allowed to refuse to
: provide a staff to assist you to know how the TV operates-- using the 
remote
: control, etc. The latter would be a reasonable accommodation request, in 
my
: view. but as others have pointed out, the former would arguably be
: unreasonable. But, under the same analogy, if the hotel were to tell you
: that as a blind person watching TV by yourself would be an insurance
: liability (of course that wouldn't make sense), then I do believe this 
would
: constitute an equal access violation.
:
: You would think that a competent in-house counsel should be able to advise
: them of what to do to comply, but you'll be surprised of the level of
: ignorance that exist sometimes in these offices.
:
:  I thought I would contextualize the question so that the discussion can 
be
: more targeted to his situation.
:
: Rod Alcidonis
:
: ----- Original Message ----- 
: From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
: Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:38 AM
: Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cardinal Fitness Center
:
:
: >I have used gyms and fitness centers for years.  Although I agree that
: > orientation to the equipment is an appropriate request, once that is
: > done, I do not believe an on-going free personal trainer is reasonable.
: > Part of the orientation would be to show you how the environment may
: > change when people are using the equipment.
: >
: > -----Original Message-----
: > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
: > On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
: > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 7:10 AM
: > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
: > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cardinal Fitness Center
: >
: > Wow, I have heard of difficulties running some of the various exercise
: > machines in fitness centers, but I have never heard of a blind person
: > needing a personal trainer to avoid hurting themselves or someone else.
: > Asking for someone to familiarize one with the machinery and the layout
: > to some degree seems reasonable, but expecting a personal trainer
: > strikes me as excessive, especially since they are not providing
: > personal training.  There are two parts to this issue, though, the legal
: > part and the practical part, and it's not easy to draw the line, and
: > perhaps there are circumstances here of which I am not aware.
: >
: > On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:11:43 -1200, Ron Dixon wrote:
: >
: >>
: >>Hi Gang:
: >>
: >>A question for anyone who has encountered this problem or know of this
: >>problem.  I recently moved to the Chicago area from Florida and finally
: >
: >>found a fitness
: > center
: > near my home.  When I called to inquire of membership, I informed the
: > office manager of my blindness and my need for an accommodation.  I
: > explained my fitness center in Florida provided me with a personal
: > trainer who insured I did not injure myself using the equipment or
: > injure someone else by possibly tripping them or tripping and falling
: > onto someone.  Nevertheless, the arrangement worked and there was no
: > extra cost.
: >>
: >>The manager at Cardinal, however, refuse to make a decision on allowing
: >
: >>my membership and/or accommodations.  He passed the buck to his manger
: >>who called
: > me
: > the following day and after listening to the same story told me he did
: > not have the authority to offer accommodations and he will have one of
: > the partners get into contact with me.  I am currently still waiting on
: > the partner's call.
: >>
: >>Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with the partner, or in
: > case the partner does not return my call?
: >>
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > blindlaw mailing list
: > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
: > _______________________________________________
: > blindlaw mailing list
: > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
: >
:
: _______________________________________________
: blindlaw mailing list
: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw 