[blindlaw] A dispute over paper-form accessibility

Tue Apr 1 12:03:52 CDT 2008

One thing you can try is searching specifically for the form using google. 
If Google finds it, it will have an option to view it as html.  That works 
if the pdf in question is not a pdf image, but a pdf document.

You can copy and paste it into a word document and cut the google portions 
out.  You'll have all th einformation and a form substantially complying 
with the one they requested.

The other option si call someone you trust and direct them to fill out the 
form over the phone, have them block thesignature line and send it back to 
where all you have to do is sign, peel off the signature block guide and 
mail it in.

Hope this helps,

Locke
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A dispute over paper-form accessibility

>I didn't see Albert's message, so thanks for requoting it here.
> I tend to agree that the solution is for me to upgrade my software.  This 
> is
> cost-prohibited right now, but I am trying to work out something with DOR; 
> I
> need a new scanner and software, as my older Reading Edge has died (and it
> couldn't do this job anyway; no practical way to transfer the information
> from scanner to this XP machine).  My ideal solution would be to be able 
> to
> scan the form into a document I could digitally manipulate, then do all 
> the
> check-marking and filling-in that was required, add a signature, print it
> out and send it back.  Right now, though, this is not within my power.
>
> I have, BTW, asked for an MS Word or Text file version of this form, and
> they have declined, stating that PDF is the only available alternative
> medium.  They insist on having a physical paper copy of the form, though;
> nothing less will do.  I find that a bit weird in the digital age.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 7:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A dispute over paper-form accessibility
>
>
>> Mark,
>>
>> If their form is truly in an accessible PDF form and the difficulty is
>> that your software won't handle it, then I think Albert is correct that
>> they are not obligated to
>> account for all versions of software.  However, accessible PDF forms are
>> not always as accessible as one might expect.  You could ask if they 
>> could
>> send you a
>> version in Microsoft Word.  That is an option that is often used.  As a
>> word document, you can fill it in usually in "overtype" mode and have it
>> come out reasonably
>> well.  There are tools that can convert PDF's into Word documents that
>> might work for this purpose as well if you can't get a Word document.
>> Whether the law is on
>> your side or not in this, you will have to decide which battles to take
>> on.  It is very possible that someone believes the form is accessible but
>> that it is not for practical
>> reasons.  These situations are messy.
>>
>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 06:16:13 -0400, albert griffith wrote:
>>
>>>I believe it's incumbent on you to maintain updated software if that's
>>>what's required to fill out this form.  I think the student office is
>>>obliged to make a reasonable effort to make their forms accessible and it
>>>seems they have since I can read mine with the latest versions of jaws 
>>>and
>>>acrobat reader.  If you have an OCR. package, it may read the form.
>>>Failing
>>>these suggestions I haven't a clue.
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk
>>>Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:23 PM
>>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>Subject: [blindlaw] A dispute over paper-form accessibility
>>
>>>I am having the same argument with my government student loan repayment
>>>office that I have had for years.
>>
>>>I wish to fill out a deferment, while I seek employment.  In order to do
>>>this, I have some options:
>>>I could download the PDF form from their website.  To my knowledge, I 
>>>have
>>>neither the updated version of Jaws, nor the updated version of Adobe
>>>which
>>>will allow me to manipulate this form, checking the proper boxes and
>>>adding
>>>a signature, once I have done so, much less print it out and send it 
>>>back.
>>>The INSIST the MUST have a paper form.
>>
>>>I could allow some person with sight to fill out this form.  It has been
>>>my
>>>policy to not allow unnecessary access by the sighted to my personal mail
>>>or
>>>financial records, but I do realize it would be a solution to bend that
>>>rule; I am, at present, unwilling and not in a safe situation for this to
>>>happen.  Also, I don't really have a sighted person around who would do 
>>>it
>>>at the moment.
>>>Or, the department in question could make the form accessible to me. 
>>>They
>>>utterly refuse to do this, stating there's no way they can send it to me
>>>in
>>>another medium than print or PDF.
>>
>>>What, if any, rights do I have in this dispute?  I know that the easiest
>>>solution would be to find a sighted person I even half-way trust to help
>>>me
>>>with it, but I object to this very strongly on a moral ground, and I 
>>>think
>>>that is constitutes discrimination to force me into this position.  As
>>>well,
>>>as I have said above, I don't have s sighted friend to provide this
>>>charitable service for me, nor even someone I could pay--I live in a bad
>>>neighborhood in an inner city environment.  Are there any avenues I can
>>>take, other than these?\Thanks.
>>
>>>--Mark BurningHawk
>>>Email:  Stone_troll at sbcglobal.net
>>>my website:  http://www.panix.com/~mbaxter Namaste
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>>
>>
>>
>>
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