[blindlaw] Text of a pending complaint

Wed Oct 25 12:59:31 CDT 2006

No wonder I have no money.  I never pay attention to how much I pay for
that starbucks once or twice a day.  After a while that gets to be real
money.
Jim  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 1:11 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Text of a pending complaint

Greetings:

   First, we will not tollerate anyone calling another list member
spineless or actions of another list members spineless and disgusting.
I realize that emotions can run high on issues like this, but if you
find yourself getting worked up over another list member's comments,
wait at least a day before responding so that you can allow the
objective part of your brain to take hold.  This is an official warning
to all list members that the next time someone uses ad hominime language
to address another list members or the comments of another list member.
That individual will be removed and will have to reapply for membership
at a later date.

As for the merits of the issue, the ADA requires that transit agencies
provide access to transit vehicles through appropriate announcements
etc.  A temporary malfunction would not be a violation.  If that
malfunction persists after a period of complaints to alert the provider,
that would probably be construed as a violation.  Section 501-D of the
ADA provides that a person may refuse an accommodation.  However, this
section has not been litigated to the point where I can give any
meaningful  guidance as to how it would be interpreted.

Frankly, I find Tim's comments well reasoned and something that should
allow us to view this situation with some perspective.  Ideally, we
would all like the world to behave towards us in a certain manner, but
it often doesn't. 
It will take us a long time to complete the education necessary to make
this kind of incident a thing of the past.

I understand how Mark feels because those of us who are blind have all
been there.  Mark, you should write a letter but give yourself a few
more days and see whether your letter is too emotional.  I also
recommend the informal approach first.  Ask for a meeting with the
involved individuals and whoever else for the purpose of educating them
on how the situation should have been handled.  If this request is
denied or ignored, then it is time to think about something more formal
to get their attention.

Any way, those are my thoughts.  That and $4.99 will get you a
Starbucks.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
President, National Association of Blind Lawyers

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
Voice:  303 504-5979
Fax:  303 757-3640
E-mail:  slabarre at labarrelaw.com
Website:  www.labarrelaw.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Text of a pending complaint

> Tim:
> First.  I do not like touching or being touched by people I do not
know.
> The consensus on this seems to be, "well you should get over that
because
> you need to be touched in order to be helped."  I refuse this, and
anyone
> throwing an elbow at me for any reason is going to activate my defense
> reflexes, as learned in my extensive martial arts training, and as
would 
> any
> sighted person.  If I were sighted, what the station agent did would
be
> considered assault, and he could be brought up on charges based on
this.
> Why should it not be different in the case of a blind person?  I do
not
> accept responsibility for how people I do not even know attempt to
train
> sighted people to assist blind people.  My experience has been that
this
> training tends toward the "lowest common denominator," of the blind,
and I
> am not that.  Secondly, there was no call for it to get out of hand.
I 
> said
> numerous times"no thanks, I don't want your help."  It is my right to 
> refuse
> help.  I was not at any time in danger of being near an edge, nor did
I do
> anything which jeopardized anyone's safety.  I have the right to
refuse
> assistance, and did so politely and quietly.  I at no time yelled,
swore 
> or
> became unruly.  I used big words and a level tone of voice, and my dog
was
> calmly sitting at my side.  Your approach of "sometimes you just have
to
> accept help," frankly disgusts me.  It's a very spineless approach,
and 
> one
> I cannot abide.  Also, just because BART may have done things to 
> accommodate
> blind people is no excuse to let them off the hook when they become
pushy,
> overbearing and attempt to take away my autonomy; this is unacceptable
> behavior from anyone.  I do not claim to be the best blind person in
terms
> of mobility or learning new things quickly or anything of the sort; 
> however,
> I do insist that I have the right to do things my way; if I want to
turn
> around three times to show my dog an escalator, so long as I'm not 
> bleeding
> from an artery or pushing people out of my way, that's my right; I can
do
> that, and often choose to, so that I and my dog learn more, rather
than 
> just
> being towed about by the elbow, at the mercy of a stranger.  My ways
are
> different, and I don't try to change other blind people to conform to
my
> beliefs; I would appreciate the same courtesy, since again I am not 
> harming
> people.  As far as the tactual strips, I can take or leave them, and
see 
> no
> real point in getting into an argument about it.  The point here is
that I
> do not abide people making judgments of my capability based on
blindness,
> when they themselves are unfamiliar with blindness and blind people.
It'd
> be like trying to tell my sighted friend how to drive.  What works for

> many
> does not work for me, and in this particular incident, the standards
of 
> "the
> blind," were forced down my throat.  My guide dog was tired, confused
is
> relatively new and had never been there before; I do not believe that
even 
> a
> seasoned dog and handler team would have done much better.  He and I
were
> insulted and demeaned and I will NOT let that go just so that "the
blind
> community," can benefit from overbearing attempts to make the world
safer
> for them despite themselves.  I disagree thatBART is at all friendly;
many
> times I am harassed in minor ways by station personnel, who don not
take 
> no
> for an answer.  I insist on my autonomy and that I be treated with 
> respect,
> and making a judgment call that robs me of my autonomy in a situation
that
> does not warrant it is a disrespect that I will not abide.
>
> THanks for your opinion.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw
>
>
> 

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