[Blind-rollers] Blind-rollers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9
Jennifer Aberdeen
freespirit328 at gmail.com
Thu Aug 2 11:51:56 CDT 2007
Hi Dan and listers,
In regards to schools that train dogs for the blind, I had read about
Southeastern in Florida. I had hopes to perhaps someday get a dog there
because they have experience training dogs for people who have other
disabilities besides blindness. However, someone told me just the other day
that if I wanted to get a dog, I would go to the one in New Jersey. I have
nothing against New Jersey, especially if I can get the dog for free, but
the school in Florida sounds really good. They even have an out-reach
program for people like me who can't travel...well, I guess I Can't
travel...but from what I understand, the dog is free from the school in
Florida too.
Jen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan" <JazzyDan at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Blind wheelchair users list" <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Blind-rollers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9
> Hi marcel and list,
> Way to go!
> I've been told many times throughout my life, "But you cant do that
> because you're blind." Or sometimes, "You cant do that." In either
> case the meaning is the same.
> I suppose that as a blind person we all have to pick our battles. But
> then again, everyone, blind or not, has to pick his or her own battles.
> Perhaps, that's what helps to make life interesting.
>
> I feel that every little inroad that is made in terms of success by a
> blind person is extremely valuable.
> I wonder what I'll have to face the next time I get a new wheelchair?
> But of course, I hope this one lasts a long time.
> I am really pleased to learn about others using chairs and ofcourse
> this list is certainly doing that! While I was doing research prior
> to my approaching my medical people about a chair, I found only 1
> article written by a blind wheelchair user and that was from the mid
> 90s. I also found some references to some Dog Guide schools who were
> training blind wheelchair users to use a dog.
> Well, that's enough of my going on and on.
> Later,
> Dan
> On Aug 2, 2007, at 8:11 AM, marcel wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>> this is Marcel the blind rolling northerner. Reading your
>> discussions about
>> the professionals not thinking it possible for blind people to use
>> wheel
>> chairs, I am a little discouraged because I thought only here in
>> Canada
>> could be so behind in their thinking. I see now that it is wide
>> spread so I
>> guess every tine we convince a professional it can be done, is
>> another
>> notch in our belts. Keep proving them wrong people , I know I am
>> doing just
>> that and every opportunity I get to get in their faces I am right
>> there.
>> Keep on rolling..
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <blind-rollers-request at nfbnet.org>
>> To: <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 1:00 PM
>> Subject: Blind-rollers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9
>>
>>
>>> Send Blind-rollers mailing list submissions to
>>> blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> blind-rollers-request at nfbnet.org
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> blind-rollers-owner at nfbnet.org
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Blind-rollers digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: On driving lessons, was, RE: hello. (Dan)
>>> 2. Re: Just wanted to say Hello (Rob Kaiser)
>>> 3. Re: Just wanted to say Hello (Dan)
>>> 4. Re: On driving lessons, was, RE: hello. (Petra van Driel)
>>> 5. Re: On driving lessons, was, RE: hello. (Dan)
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:39:42 -0700
>>> From: Dan <JazzyDan at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] On driving lessons, was, RE: hello.
>>> To: Blind wheelchair users list <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>> Message-ID: <B2C7FB6A-F83A-48B6-B8C5-A9E3372A7575 at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Thanks for sharing your experiences with everyone.
>>> I like a center-wheel drive because of the stability. I have a Jassy
>>> 610 and I love it.
>>> Dan
>>> On Jul 27, 2007, at 6:29 AM, Petra van Driel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> When I decided to function more independently, the only thing that
>>>> could
>>>> work for me in onfamiliar places was a guidedog. And because I love
>>>> to have
>>>> a dog, that just was something to look forward to. I tried to use a
>>>> thing
>>>> that in dutch is called a rollator. I don't know if their is an
>>>> other
>>>> english word for a kind of walker on wheels. But I didn't learn
>>>> routes by
>>>> than and got so tired of walking we decided on a scootmobile. But a
>>>> powerchair seemed to work better, because it has nothing infront of
>>>> you,
>>>> where the other thing had a little steering thing infront and the
>>>> third
>>>> wheel. I learned how to drive hand in hand with my boyfriend. And
>>>> after the
>>>> dog came we chased each other in the big hall of our apartement.
>>>> When
>>>> searching for a good manual chair compair the weights of different
>>>> types.
>>>> And trie to read about it on the web. I'll fill in the gaps of my
>>>> english
>>>> some more and than translate my dutch webpages on wheelchairguiding
>>>> and
>>>> wheelchair use for vips. (vips, visual impaired persons)
>>>>
>>>> Not just the camber was an important detail when getting this
>>>> wheelchair,
>>>> for me the small reerweals are placed a little infront of my feet.
>>>> So I can
>>>> never axidently hurt my feet, can put the chair in the right way
>>>> for taking
>>>> curbes and the biggest advantage, I can't tip over that way. The
>>>> day this
>>>> chair came, again, whe started out using hand in hand, and when I
>>>> could
>>>> drive, Beau was happy to work with it.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards Petra
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:41:13 -0700
>>> From: "Rob Kaiser" <rkaiser4 at socal.rr.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>> To: "Blind wheelchair users list" <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>> Message-ID: <007001c7d053$ccf99480$6ea54a42 at robxp>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>> Hello again. As you all know, I sent a message about my
>>> neuropathy, and
>>> that
>>> I may have to go to a wheelchair soon especially if they have to
>>> put in a
>>> morafeen catheter in my leg. in anyone's experiences, how do most
>>> employers
>>> feel about having a blind worker in a wheelchair? Do a lot of safety
>>> questions come up. I am suppose to start a new job with Verizon
>>> Wireless
>>> call center in Irvine, CA on August 6th.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rob Kaiser
>>> PRESIDENT, NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF CALIFORNIA ORANGE
>>> COUNTY
>>> CHAPTER
>>> HOME PHONE (714)289-9114
>>> CELL PHONE (714)323-5203
>>> EMAIL ADDRESS: rkaiser4 at socal.rr.com
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "dmgina" <dmgina at qwest.net>
>>> To: <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dan,
>>>> Didn't you get down on one knee to ask your wife for marriage?
>>>> Ha, well now doing it again is romantic but don't work so hard at it
>>>> smile.
>>>> Hehehehehe.
>>>> Dar ----- source message -----
>>>> from: Dan <JazzyDan at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> to: Blind wheelchair users list <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>>> date: thursday Jul 26 2007, 18:52:56
>>>> subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Dar,
>>>>> I really would suggest that you walk as long as you can. Even when
>>>>> I'm in my house, where I can follow the walls, I walk some every
>>>>> day.
>>>>> But one time while doing this, I fell down, right in front of some
>>>>> friends we had over for dinner. And you know what? They laughed
>>>>> with
>>>>> me, not at me, even my Wife and Son got in on the act. They also
>>>>> suggested that I might take my situation a little more seriously. I
>>>>> guess they are right. But still, when I can, I try to walk some.
>>>>> Dan
>>>>> On Jul 26, 2007, at 6:24 PM, dmgina wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>>> I think it is grate.
>>>>>> I don't need a chair yet,
>>>>>> and hope that I can walk for as long as I can.
>>>>>> Good for you.
>>>>>> I don't understand terms of a chair, so if I ask, don't feel you
>>>>>> are doing
>>>>>> something wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Dar
>>>>>> www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
>>>>>> Every Saint has a past
>>>>>> Every Sinner has a future
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Kim & Sophie" <kim_and_sophie at yahoo.ca>
>>>>>> To: "Blind wheelchair users list" <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 5:04 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I knew through trial and error. The first one I had didn't work
>>>>>>> for me at
>>>>>>> all! It was too big, the seat was almost flat so I kept falling
>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>> because I have no trunk control, and every part of it was just
>>>>>>> wrong. I
>>>>>>> had worked with 5 "seating speacialists" when I had this
>>>>>>> chair. I
>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>> measured by one and the other 4 tried to make things work for me
>>>>>>> but they
>>>>>>> never did.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The next chair I got was measured by myself and my boyfriend and
>>>>>>> it fits
>>>>>>> me perfectly. I took 2 inches off of the seat width, had more
>>>>>>> "dump" in
>>>>>>> the seat so I could sit up without always having to lean on one
>>>>>>> arm, and
>>>>>>> changed every single measurement right down to the wheels. I
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>> more camber on my wheels because I knew I would be more stable on
>>>>>>> slanted
>>>>>>> sidewalks and wouldn't get my fingers caught like I use to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess it all comes down to finding out what works or don't
>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>> for you
>>>>>>> by trying things and making adjustments. My first chair was a
>>>>>>> Quickie GT
>>>>>>> so everything on it was adjustable. I kept tweaking it until I
>>>>>>> knew what
>>>>>>> I needed. It still didn't work for me, but I knew from the
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> didn't work what would work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My new chair is a Invacare Top End Titanium and it has no
>>>>>>> adjustments at
>>>>>>> all besides the rear axle. I love it because nothing comes loose
>>>>>>> and it
>>>>>>> takes a lot of weight off of the chair. There are less things to
>>>>>>> worry
>>>>>>> about breaking and it only weighs 18fulbs including cushion,
>>>>>>> wheels,
>>>>>>> backrest etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try some differnt things out and don't let a "seating
>>>>>>> speacialist" force
>>>>>>> you into something without having a chance to test it out and see
>>>>>>> if it
>>>>>>> works for yourself. If I had listened to everyone I would have
>>>>>>> been in a
>>>>>>> power chair in a nursing home with my guide dog taken away, but
>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>> I'm living on my own half of the time (my boyfriend travels a
>>>>>>> lot for
>>>>>>> work), I still have my guide dog and I use a manual chair, and
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> my own
>>>>>>> buisness. I've also started wheelchair racing. All because I
>>>>>>> made it
>>>>>>> perfectly clear from the beginning that it's my life and I wasn't
>>>>>>> about to
>>>>>>> give in to whatever I was told before trying things out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kim & Sophie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> dmgina <dmgina at qwest.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> How did you know what to add to your chair to work for you?
>>>>>>> Or did you get professional help?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Dar
>>>>>>> www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
>>>>>>> Every Saint has a past
>>>>>>> Every Sinner has a future
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Kim & Sophie"
>>>>>>> To: "Blind wheelchair users list"
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:55 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had this problem with my old wheelchair because I only had 3
>>>>>>>> degrees of
>>>>>>>> camber on my wheels. I would get my hand caught between doorways
>>>>>>>> a lot and
>>>>>>>> because I have no feeling in my hands I wouldn't realize until I
>>>>>>>> couldn't
>>>>>>>> move forward, or I couldn't pull my arm away from my wheel. When
>>>>>>>> I got my
>>>>>>>> new wheelchair I got 9 degrees of camber on my wheels and this
>>>>>>>> gives me
>>>>>>>> enough room so my hands don't touch door frames etc. because the
>>>>>>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>> my wheels can only touch the door frame leaving room between the
>>>>>>>> top of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> wheel for my hand.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you decide to add more camber to your chair you really should
>>>>>>>> consider
>>>>>>>> the width yoru chair will be at the base though. You don't want
>>>>>>>> to do it
>>>>>>>> and be too wide to fit through some doorways! It also adds a
>>>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>>> stability from side to side to your chair.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kim & Sophie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Laura Eaves wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Jen --
>>>>>>>> I crash into things with the manual chair too, but I have
>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> stop. Perhaps with practice, the same would be true with a power
>>>>>>>> chair.
>>>>>>>> One annoying thing about using the manual chair is that I
>>>>>>>> frequently --
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is, ininv* frequently -- get my hand caught between the chair
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> furniture and so my hands and fingers are constantly bruised and
>>>>>>>> swollen
>>>>>>>> from little injuries, not to mention painful as heck.
>>>>>>>> Does anyone else have this problem?
>>>>>>>> I am fortunate in that I have full use of my arms -- I suppose
>>>>>>>> there are
>>>>>>>> some on the list that are more limited. I am also able to
>>>>>>>> stand and
>>>>>>>> pivot,
>>>>>>>> but not walk.
>>>>>>>> As for how I stear, I just push with one arm and feel with my
>>>>>>>> feet and
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> other arm. I only carry the cane strapped to my chair for
>>>>>>>> identification
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> people know I'm blind. If I used a power chair I suppose I could
>>>>>>>> use the
>>>>>>>> cane for mobility more easily.
>>>>>>>> Comments welcome.
>>>>>>>> --le
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Jennifer Aberdeen"
>>>>>>>> To: "Blind wheelchair users list"
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:12 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Laura,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know your question was to Dan, and I don't want to high-jack
>>>>>>>> the email
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> any way, but I just wanted to ask you how you got around in your
>>>>>>>> manual
>>>>>>>> chair? I have a manual chair right now, and I have a really hard
>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>> getting around unfamiliar places, which is just about everywhere
>>>>>>>> except
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> house. I have a one-armed gear manual chair, but I don't use it
>>>>>>>> the way
>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>> supposed to because I almost broke my wrist trying to steer the
>>>>>>>> chair
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> was learning how to use it. I'm hoping that my mobility will be
>>>>>>>> easier
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> the power chair, but if for some reason I can't drive it without
>>>>>>>> crashing
>>>>>>>> into things, I don't know what I'll do. I really need to be able
>>>>>>>> to get
>>>>>>>> around without people helping me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jen
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Laura Eaves"
>>>>>>>> To: "Blind wheelchair users list"
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 2:42 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Dan -- Welcome to the list!
>>>>>>>>> I am blind and use a manual chair.
>>>>>>>>> I tried a power chair at one point just to see how well it
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> work,
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> pretty much demolished the furniture and took some paint off
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> wall. I
>>>>>>>>> suppose for a one-day trial with no experience that was to be
>>>>>>>>> expected,
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> I decided that for various reasons I preferred the manual --
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>>> of which is that I don't need a van to travel, and if I need
>>>>>>>>> a ride
>>>>>>>>> somewhere, my friend can throw my light weight folding chair
>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>> trunk
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> any car quite easily.
>>>>>>>>> I have a question -- are you total or do you have some vision?
>>>>>>>>> and if
>>>>>>>>> so,
>>>>>>>>> how much?
>>>>>>>>> When I was working, when my vision was better, I could see
>>>>>>>>> enough to
>>>>>>>>> stear
>>>>>>>>> in familiar territory. But now my vision is not good enough to
>>>>>>>>> navigate
>>>>>>>>> much at all. I do most all navigation by touch, or checking
>>>>>>>>> out the
>>>>>>>>> light
>>>>>>>>> fixtures in the room (I have light vision) to know where I am.
>>>>>>>>> Take care.
>>>>>>>>> --le
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Dan"
>>>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 12:26 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>> I am a totally blind person who has been successfully using an
>>>>>>>>> electric wheelchair for over a year.
>>>>>>>>> I have a Jazzy-610 with a PG VSI 50 Amp controller mounted
>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>> left arm rest. This is a Center-wheel drive with Active Track
>>>>>>>>> Suspension and I absolutely love the Six-Wheels on the
>>>>>>>>> ground at
>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>> times. It really does give me tremendous stability.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I didn't need Rehab Seating. However I do have a High-Backed
>>>>>>>>> seat
>>>>>>>>> with a Headrest and it also Reclines.
>>>>>>>>> While I can still walk some, I feel much safer in the
>>>>>>>>> wheelchair.
>>>>>>>>> For guidance I use an extremely lightweight carbon fiber
>>>>>>>>> folding
>>>>>>>>> cane with a roller tip and it works great.
>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> ----
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dar
>>>> www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
>>>> every saint has a past
>>>> every sinner has a future
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 07:45:10 -0700
>>> From: Dan <JazzyDan at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>> To: Blind wheelchair users list <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>> Message-ID: <8252E442-0014-4A2D-925F-8AA2F083903C at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I recently retired. But before I retired, my employer was quite open
>>> to my having a wheelchair on the campus. If anything negative was
>>> ever said, I never heard of it.
>>> Dan
>>> On Jul 27, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Rob Kaiser wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello again. As you all know, I sent a message about my neuropathy,
>>>> and that
>>>> I may have to go to a wheelchair soon especially if they have to
>>>> put in a
>>>> morafeen catheter in my leg. in anyone's experiences, how do most
>>>> employers
>>>> feel about having a blind worker in a wheelchair? Do a lot of safety
>>>> questions come up. I am suppose to start a new job with Verizon
>>>> Wireless
>>>> call center in Irvine, CA on August 6th.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rob Kaiser
>>>> PRESIDENT, NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF CALIFORNIA ORANGE
>>>> COUNTY
>>>> CHAPTER
>>>> HOME PHONE (714)289-9114
>>>> CELL PHONE (714)323-5203
>>>> EMAIL ADDRESS: rkaiser4 at socal.rr.com
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "dmgina" <dmgina at qwest.net>
>>>> To: <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dan,
>>>>> Didn't you get down on one knee to ask your wife for marriage?
>>>>> Ha, well now doing it again is romantic but don't work so hard
>>>>> at it
>>>>> smile.
>>>>> Hehehehehe.
>>>>> Dar ----- source message -----
>>>>> from: Dan <JazzyDan at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> to: Blind wheelchair users list <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> date: thursday Jul 26 2007, 18:52:56
>>>>> subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Dar,
>>>>>> I really would suggest that you walk as long as you can. Even when
>>>>>> I'm in my house, where I can follow the walls, I walk some every
>>>>>> day.
>>>>>> But one time while doing this, I fell down, right in front of some
>>>>>> friends we had over for dinner. And you know what? They laughed
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> me, not at me, even my Wife and Son got in on the act. They also
>>>>>> suggested that I might take my situation a little more
>>>>>> seriously. I
>>>>>> guess they are right. But still, when I can, I try to walk some.
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>> On Jul 26, 2007, at 6:24 PM, dmgina wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>>>> I think it is grate.
>>>>>>> I don't need a chair yet,
>>>>>>> and hope that I can walk for as long as I can.
>>>>>>> Good for you.
>>>>>>> I don't understand terms of a chair, so if I ask, don't feel you
>>>>>>> are doing
>>>>>>> something wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Dar
>>>>>>> www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
>>>>>>> Every Saint has a past
>>>>>>> Every Sinner has a future
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Kim & Sophie" <kim_and_sophie at yahoo.ca>
>>>>>>> To: "Blind wheelchair users list" <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 5:04 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I knew through trial and error. The first one I had didn't work
>>>>>>>> for me at
>>>>>>>> all! It was too big, the seat was almost flat so I kept falling
>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>> because I have no trunk control, and every part of it was just
>>>>>>>> wrong. I
>>>>>>>> had worked with 5 "seating speacialists" when I had this
>>>>>>>> chair. I
>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>> measured by one and the other 4 tried to make things work for me
>>>>>>>> but they
>>>>>>>> never did.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The next chair I got was measured by myself and my boyfriend
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> it fits
>>>>>>>> me perfectly. I took 2 inches off of the seat width, had more
>>>>>>>> "dump" in
>>>>>>>> the seat so I could sit up without always having to lean on one
>>>>>>>> arm, and
>>>>>>>> changed every single measurement right down to the wheels. I
>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>> more camber on my wheels because I knew I would be more
>>>>>>>> stable on
>>>>>>>> slanted
>>>>>>>> sidewalks and wouldn't get my fingers caught like I use to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I guess it all comes down to finding out what works or don't
>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>> for you
>>>>>>>> by trying things and making adjustments. My first chair was a
>>>>>>>> Quickie GT
>>>>>>>> so everything on it was adjustable. I kept tweaking it until I
>>>>>>>> knew what
>>>>>>>> I needed. It still didn't work for me, but I knew from the
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> didn't work what would work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My new chair is a Invacare Top End Titanium and it has no
>>>>>>>> adjustments at
>>>>>>>> all besides the rear axle. I love it because nothing comes
>>>>>>>> loose
>>>>>>>> and it
>>>>>>>> takes a lot of weight off of the chair. There are less
>>>>>>>> things to
>>>>>>>> worry
>>>>>>>> about breaking and it only weighs 18fulbs including cushion,
>>>>>>>> wheels,
>>>>>>>> backrest etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Try some differnt things out and don't let a "seating
>>>>>>>> speacialist" force
>>>>>>>> you into something without having a chance to test it out and
>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>> if it
>>>>>>>> works for yourself. If I had listened to everyone I would have
>>>>>>>> been in a
>>>>>>>> power chair in a nursing home with my guide dog taken away, but
>>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>>> I'm living on my own half of the time (my boyfriend travels a
>>>>>>>> lot for
>>>>>>>> work), I still have my guide dog and I use a manual chair,
>>>>>>>> and own
>>>>>>>> my own
>>>>>>>> buisness. I've also started wheelchair racing. All because I
>>>>>>>> made it
>>>>>>>> perfectly clear from the beginning that it's my life and I
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>> about to
>>>>>>>> give in to whatever I was told before trying things out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kim & Sophie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> dmgina <dmgina at qwest.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> How did you know what to add to your chair to work for you?
>>>>>>>> Or did you get professional help?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --Dar
>>>>>>>> www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
>>>>>>>> Every Saint has a past
>>>>>>>> Every Sinner has a future
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Kim & Sophie"
>>>>>>>> To: "Blind wheelchair users list"
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:55 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I had this problem with my old wheelchair because I only had 3
>>>>>>>>> degrees of
>>>>>>>>> camber on my wheels. I would get my hand caught between
>>>>>>>>> doorways
>>>>>>>>> a lot and
>>>>>>>>> because I have no feeling in my hands I wouldn't realize
>>>>>>>>> until I
>>>>>>>>> couldn't
>>>>>>>>> move forward, or I couldn't pull my arm away from my wheel.
>>>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>>>> I got my
>>>>>>>>> new wheelchair I got 9 degrees of camber on my wheels and this
>>>>>>>>> gives me
>>>>>>>>> enough room so my hands don't touch door frames etc. because
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>>> my wheels can only touch the door frame leaving room between
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> top of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> wheel for my hand.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you decide to add more camber to your chair you really
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>> consider
>>>>>>>>> the width yoru chair will be at the base though. You don't want
>>>>>>>>> to do it
>>>>>>>>> and be too wide to fit through some doorways! It also adds a
>>>>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>>>> stability from side to side to your chair.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kim & Sophie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Laura Eaves wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Jen --
>>>>>>>>> I crash into things with the manual chair too, but I have
>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> stop. Perhaps with practice, the same would be true with a
>>>>>>>>> power
>>>>>>>>> chair.
>>>>>>>>> One annoying thing about using the manual chair is that I
>>>>>>>>> frequently --
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> is, ininv* frequently -- get my hand caught between the
>>>>>>>>> chair and
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> furniture and so my hands and fingers are constantly bruised
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> swollen
>>>>>>>>> from little injuries, not to mention painful as heck.
>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else have this problem?
>>>>>>>>> I am fortunate in that I have full use of my arms -- I suppose
>>>>>>>>> there are
>>>>>>>>> some on the list that are more limited. I am also able to
>>>>>>>>> stand and
>>>>>>>>> pivot,
>>>>>>>>> but not walk.
>>>>>>>>> As for how I stear, I just push with one arm and feel with my
>>>>>>>>> feet and
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> other arm. I only carry the cane strapped to my chair for
>>>>>>>>> identification
>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> people know I'm blind. If I used a power chair I suppose I
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> use the
>>>>>>>>> cane for mobility more easily.
>>>>>>>>> Comments welcome.
>>>>>>>>> --le
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Jennifer Aberdeen"
>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind wheelchair users list"
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:12 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Laura,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know your question was to Dan, and I don't want to high-jack
>>>>>>>>> the email
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> any way, but I just wanted to ask you how you got around in
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> manual
>>>>>>>>> chair? I have a manual chair right now, and I have a really
>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>> getting around unfamiliar places, which is just about
>>>>>>>>> everywhere
>>>>>>>>> except
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> house. I have a one-armed gear manual chair, but I don't use it
>>>>>>>>> the way
>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>> supposed to because I almost broke my wrist trying to steer the
>>>>>>>>> chair
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> was learning how to use it. I'm hoping that my mobility will be
>>>>>>>>> easier
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> the power chair, but if for some reason I can't drive it
>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>> crashing
>>>>>>>>> into things, I don't know what I'll do. I really need to be
>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>> to get
>>>>>>>>> around without people helping me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jen
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Laura Eaves"
>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind wheelchair users list"
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 2:42 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Dan -- Welcome to the list!
>>>>>>>>>> I am blind and use a manual chair.
>>>>>>>>>> I tried a power chair at one point just to see how well it
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> work,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> pretty much demolished the furniture and took some paint
>>>>>>>>>> off the
>>>>>>>>>> wall. I
>>>>>>>>>> suppose for a one-day trial with no experience that was to be
>>>>>>>>>> expected,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> I decided that for various reasons I preferred the manual
>>>>>>>>>> -- not
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>>>> of which is that I don't need a van to travel, and if I need
>>>>>>>>>> a ride
>>>>>>>>>> somewhere, my friend can throw my light weight folding chair
>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>>> trunk
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> any car quite easily.
>>>>>>>>>> I have a question -- are you total or do you have some vision?
>>>>>>>>>> and if
>>>>>>>>>> so,
>>>>>>>>>> how much?
>>>>>>>>>> When I was working, when my vision was better, I could see
>>>>>>>>>> enough to
>>>>>>>>>> stear
>>>>>>>>>> in familiar territory. But now my vision is not good enough to
>>>>>>>>>> navigate
>>>>>>>>>> much at all. I do most all navigation by touch, or checking
>>>>>>>>>> out the
>>>>>>>>>> light
>>>>>>>>>> fixtures in the room (I have light vision) to know where I am.
>>>>>>>>>> Take care.
>>>>>>>>>> --le
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Dan"
>>>>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 12:26 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blind-rollers] Just wanted to say Hello
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>> I am a totally blind person who has been successfully using an
>>>>>>>>>> electric wheelchair for over a year.
>>>>>>>>>> I have a Jazzy-610 with a PG VSI 50 Amp controller mounted on
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> left arm rest. This is a Center-wheel drive with Active Track
>>>>>>>>>> Suspension and I absolutely love the Six-Wheels on the
>>>>>>>>>> ground at
>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>> times. It really does give me tremendous stability.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I didn't need Rehab Seating. However I do have a High-Backed
>>>>>>>>>> seat
>>>>>>>>>> with a Headrest and it also Reclines.
>>>>>>>>>> While I can still walk some, I feel much safer in the
>>>>>>>>>> wheelchair.
>>>>>>>>>> For guidance I use an extremely lightweight carbon fiber
>>>>>>>>>> folding
>>>>>>>>>> cane with a roller tip and it works great.
>>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk
>>>>>>>>> email the
>>>>>>>>> boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>>> Version: 7.5.476 still Virus Database: 269.10.19/917 -- Release
>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>> 7/25/2007
>>>>>>>> 1:16 AM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on
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>>>>>>>> and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> ----------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> ----------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>> Version: 7.5.476 still Virus Database: 269.10.19/917 -- Release
>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>> 7/25/2007
>>>>>>> 1:16 AM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dar
>>>>> www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
>>>>> every saint has a past
>>>>> every sinner has a future
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:37:29 +0200
>>> From: "Petra van Driel" <nieuws at challenge-media.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] On driving lessons, was, RE: hello.
>>> To: "'Blind wheelchair users list'" <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>> Message-ID: <HPSMTP-EML054VsA6Xk00021829 at hpsmtp-eml05.kpnxchange.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Hi Dan,
>>>
>>> What's a center-wheel drive? Is that the newer 6 wheel kind of
>>> chair? And
>>> what's the difference between such a chair and a standard one?
>>>
>>> Best regards Petra
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:14:10 -0700
>>> From: Dan <JazzyDan at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] On driving lessons, was, RE: hello.
>>> To: Blind wheelchair users list <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>> Message-ID: <DD2DC508-02AB-4F3F-8051-4FEA980D177D at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Hello Petra,
>>> You are correct. A center-wheel chair means that the middle wheels
>>> are the drive wheels. It also has rear casters and front anti-tip
>>> casters. All the casters are able to swivel. The front casters are
>>> part of a suspension system. On my chair, as the surface in front of
>>> me changes the two front casters and both motors adjust for the
>>> ground differentials. This means that all six wheels are firmly on
>>> the ground at all times. The rear casters are on a heavy bar that
>>> also swivels some to adjust for balance at the center line of the
>>> chair. My drive wheels are 10 inch foam-filled tires not pneumatic
>>> tires. The rear casters are 6 inch spherical in shape. The front
>>> casters are 5 inch spherical casters. This makes it much easier for
>>> traversing low curbs. My chair has a 2 inch ground clearance some
>>> have 3 or more inches of clearance. There are many different
>>> configurations of wheels and casters from different manufacturers.
>>> While my chair is equipped with 10 inch drive wheels, some power
>>> chairs have 12, 14, or 16 inch drive wheels. and the casters are
>>> matched accordingly.
>>> Also, you can have front-wheel drive which is usually a 4 wheel
>>> setup. And of course there is rear-wheel drive as well. The power
>>> chairs that I evaluated were front-wheel and center-wheel units. I
>>> didn't evaluate rear-wheel drive.
>>> I hope this explains what you are asking.
>>>
>>> On Jul 27, 2007, at 8:37 AM, Petra van Driel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Dan,
>>>>
>>>> What's a center-wheel drive? Is that the newer 6 wheel kind of
>>>> chair? And
>>>> what's the difference between such a chair and a standard one?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards Petra
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>>>
>>>
>>> End of Blind-rollers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9
>>> *******************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/931 - Release Date:
>>> 8/1/2007
>>> 4:53 PM
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blind-rollers mailing list
> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers
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