[Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?

Arielle Silverman hdsilverman at gmail.com
Fri Nov 10 22:30:51 CST 2006 

Hello all,



            It is true that blind voters should be knowledgeable about how 
to operate the accessible voting machine before going to vote. However, as 
far as I can tell, most or all of the problems that people have had in 
Arizona were problems with initiating the voting process, not with 
completing a ballot once voting had begun. Poll workers need to be more 
knowledgeable about how to activate the voting machine, since poll workers 
are the ones with access to the equipment needed to program the voting 
cards. This isn't a matter of custodialism; this is just how a precinct is 
set up. If I buy groceries at a cash register, I expect the cashier to be 
able to operate the cash register effectively. I need to know how to put my 
groceries on the belt, find money to give to the cashier, and put my 
groceries back in the shopping cart; the cashier needs to know how to ring 
up the items, make change, and collect the payment. If the cashier doesn't 
know how to work the cash register, no matter how skilled of a shopper I am, 
I can't pay for my groceries. And if the cashier takes three hours to ring 
up my items, and the store is about to close, I can't buy my items. 
Similarly, unless I am an expert in programming voting cards and also have 
special permission to use the equipment, I can't start filling out a ballot 
with an accessible voting machine by myself.



            I believe that we do need to insist that poll workers be able to 
activate the voting machines effectively and efficiently. They don't need to 
teach us how to fill out the ballots with them, but they do need to be able 
to get the machines going. Also, as fully integrated persons we will be busy 
on election day and will not be able to wait for hours while technical 
problems are solved.



            We must be grateful that our right to a secret ballot is legally 
protected and that most, if not all, polling places in our state have 
accessible machines. Because we are such a minority, the voting machines are 
not being used often and it will take a while for everyone to figure out how 
to use them. As Federationists, we need to keep this learning process going 
so that in 2008, we will all have the right to a secret ballot. Yes, we need 
to be in charge of this, but we are working in collaboration with others on 
this. We collaborated with legislators to get HAVA passed, and now we must 
collaborate with poll workers and machine manufacturers to ensure that the 
voting process is as smooth as possible.



Arielle

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MARK FELIZ" <felizfamily5 at msn.com>
To: <arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?


> Hello Darrell:
>
> I am not sure that radical is the term to use in this case but okay, 
> radical
> it is. So, as you claim, if you can be radical about issues of technology
> and transportation perhaps you can understand the need to dedicate the 
> same
> enthusiasm and commitment to further the independence and equality of 
> blind
> people?
> Government will not dictate where I sit on a bus, government will not
> dictate whether I can or can not keep my cane with me on an airplane,
> government will not dictate when it is convenient to vote using an
> accessible machine.
> Yes, it is *custodialism* if this is allowed to happen
>
> By the way, how's your mom doing? I can't believe how many years have gone
> by since she and I lst spoke.
> Mark Feliz
>
>
>>From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i at speakeasy.net>
>>Reply-To: Arizona Association of Blind Students
>>List<arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>>To: "Arizona Association of Blind Students List"
>><arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
>>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:51:49 -0700
>>
>>Hello Mark,
>>
>>Wow.  I'm a little surprised.  I am most certainly *not* promoting any 
>>sort
>>of custodialism.  I think extremism in either direction on some of the
>>issues you have mentioned below is a terrible idea.  For instance, I feel
>>the exit rows issue was taken a little too far by NFB.  We should insure 
>>we
>>have full access to ride the airplane whether we choose to employ a cane 
>>or
>>guide dog, but it is a little unreasonable to have blind people getting
>>arrested for not moving from the exit row.  Sometimes, injection of some
>>practicality can be helpful.  I think I feel similarly about riding the
>>bus.
>>In fact, I would actually insist on riding in the front of the bus, so the
>>driver doesn't forget about me, and I'm up front where the action is, 
>>ready
>>to go and in the best position to pay attention and get off quickly if the
>>driver doesn't announce the stops.
>>
>>As far as voting is concerned...  It is the government's responsibility to
>>insure the voting process is accessible to all.  That responsibility has
>>rightly been extended to people with disabilities.  As advocates, some of
>>us
>>can and certainly should be involved with the process to help election
>>officials at all levels appropriately insure voting accessibility.  For 
>>the
>>typical blind person who votes, however, it is not and should not
>>practically be the responsibility of that person to train the poll worker.
>>The poll worker should either have some basic knowledge of how the machine
>>is to be set up and used, or should promptly call an appropriate higher
>>level official when that is not the case or there is an unforeseen issue.
>>We certainly should *NEVER* be discouraged from casting a secret,
>>accessible
>>ballot simply because the poll worker can't alone figure it out or just
>>does
>>not want to do so.
>>
>>Federation philosophy is, by and large, positive and solid in most
>>respects,
>>though I feel its implementation is sometimes on the "radical" side.  On
>>the
>>other hand, I am "radical" on other issues, mainly dealing with technology
>>and transportation issues that can impact our abilities to obtain and
>>retain
>>employment.
>>
>>All of this is meant in good conversation, not to offend, etc.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>>Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>>A+, CSSA, Network+!
>>Information should be accessible to us without need of translation by
>>another person.
>>Blind Access Journal blog and podcast: http://www.blindaccessjournal.com
>>Sign the ProTools accessibility petition at http://protoolspetition.org
>>today!
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "MARK FELIZ" <felizfamily5 at msn.com>
>>To: <arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 7:39 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
>>
>>
>> > Hello Darrell:
>> >
>> > One very important reason why it is necessary to maintain programs
>> > utilized
>> > by blind individuals such as with RSA. Is because the blind require
>>unique
>> > alternative techniques to accomplish tasks. Competent blind person's
>>best
>> > understand these unique alternative techniques. Who better to not only
>> > teach
>> > the general population but also change the general population's
>>attitudes
>> > toward blindness than competent blind individuals.
>> >
>> > Yes, it is our obligation to know the ins and outs of accessible
>> > voting-right now. Now, perhaps in a year or maybe a little more this 
>> > wil
>> > not
>> > be the case. When a sighted person goes to vote he understands the
>> > principle
>> > and mechanics of taking the marker and drawing a line from one area of
>>the
>> > ballot to the next in order to select a desired outcome.
>> >
>> > When a blind person goes to vote, what does the average American 
>> > citizen
>> > know about accessibility, about speech output, about pushing buttons to
>> > scroll through lists, etc? For this second go-a-round with accessible
>> > voting
>> > the poll worker has been briefed on how to activate a machine that is
>> > certainly foreign to him and then, perhaps the opportunity arises only
>> > once
>> > within that day to put that training to use.
>> >
>> > Yes, it is our responsibility as blind citizens to be in charge of whom
>>we
>> > are, what we want, and how to get there. We should never stand by and
>>let
>> > the world take care of us, tell us whether to sit or stand, perhaps the
>> > best
>> > way to hold the keypad, how fast or how slow to move through the 
>> > promps,
>> > and
>> > worst of all we should never stand by and be told that accessible 
>> > voting
>> > will just take to long and it would be faster jus to have a poll worker
>> > mark
>> > our choice.
>> >
>> > Darrell, keep in mind the many blind people who refused to sit at the
>> > front
>> > of the bus so that you now have a choice of where to sit, keep in mind
>>of
>> > the many blind people who chose to be arrested on an airplane rather
>>than
>> > have their long cane taken from them and hidden away somewhere on the
>> > plane.
>> >
>> > You must never forget these things. You must never allow custodialism 
>> > to
>> > prevail.
>> >
>> > Mark Feliz
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i at speakeasy.net>
>> >>Reply-To: Arizona Association of Blind Students
>> >>List<arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>> >>To: "Arizona Association of Blind Students List"
>> >><arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>> >>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
>> >>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:01:22 -0700
>> >>
>> >>Hi Mark,
>> >>
>> >>Though I do agree it is wise for the blind citizen to have some prior
>> >>knowledge of just how accessible voting will work in their 
>> >>jurisdiction,
>> >>it
>> >>is not their obligation, just as it is not the obligation of the 
>> >>sighted
>> >>person to know the ins and outs of the system they will use for voting.
>> >>This is clearly a case where it is the responsibility of election
>> >>officials
>> >>to insure the process is accessible.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> >>Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>> >>A+, CSSA, Network+!
>> >>Information should be accessible to us without need of translation by
>> >>another person.
>> >>Blind Access Journal blog and podcast: 
>> >>http://www.blindaccessjournal.com
>> >>Sign the ProTools accessibility petition at http://protoolspetition.org
>> >>today!
>> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >>From: "MARK FELIZ" <felizfamily5 at msn.com>
>> >>To: <arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>> >>Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 6:28 PM
>> >>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i at speakeasy.net>
>> >> >>Reply-To: Arizona Association of Blind Students
>> >> >>List<arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>> >> >>To: "Arizona Association of Blind Students List"
>> >> >><arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>> >> >>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
>> >> >>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:09:53 -0700
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Hi Mark,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Yes.  We must be extremely vigilant to insure our continued 
>> >> >>improving
>> >> >>access
>> >> >>in this area for sure.  There was almost zero coverage of accessible
>> >> >>voting
>> >> >>by the mainstream media on election day or the days immediately
>>before.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>I think many access problems were caused by a lack of proper 
>> >> >>complete
>> >> >>training of election officials and poll workers.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> >> >>Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>> >> >>A+, CSSA, Network+!
>> >> >>Information should be accessible to us without need of translation 
>> >> >>by
>> >> >>another person.
>> >> >>Blind Access Journal blog and podcast:
>> >> >>http://www.blindaccessjournal.com
>> >> >>Sign the ProTools accessibility petition at
>>http://protoolspetition.org
>> >> >>today!
>> >> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>From: "MARK FELIZ" <felizfamily5 at msn.com>
>> >> >>To: <arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>> >> >>Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:44 AM
>> >> >>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>From: Arielle Silverman <hdsilverman at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >>Reply-To: Arizona Association of Blind Students
>> >> >> >>List<arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>> >> >> >>To: "Arizona Association of Blind Students List"
>> >> >> >><arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>> >> >> >>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
>> >> >> >>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 22:38:57 -0700
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Hi all,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>             I had an interesting problem when I tried to vote
>>using
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>accessible voting machine. When I arrived at the polling place 
>> >> >> >>and
>> >> >> >>asked
>> >> >> >>if
>> >> >> >>an accessible voting machine was available, the poll workers
>>happily
>> >> >>told
>> >> >> >>me
>> >> >> >>that there was a machine and that I would be the first one to use
>> >> >> >>it.
>> >>I
>> >> >> >>gave
>> >> >> >>them my ID and was directed to the machine. However, I then had 
>> >> >> >>to
>> >>wait
>> >> >> >>while the poll workers conferred about how to turn the machine 
>> >> >> >>on.
>> >> >> >>Apparently the machine needed to be activated by inserting a
>>special
>> >> >>card
>> >> >> >>that is linked to the voter's registration number. After I waited
>> >> >> >>for
>> >> >> >>about
>> >> >> >>ten minutes, they tried inserting a card to activate the machine,
>> >> >> >>but
>> >> >>the
>> >> >> >>card was rejected. The poll worker then called someone else for
>> >> >> >>help,
>> >> >>but
>> >> >> >>they were unable to figure out how to program the activation card
>>so
>> >> >>that
>> >> >> >>the machine would accept it.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>             Unfortunately, so that I would not have to miss
>>class,
>> >>my
>> >> >>mom
>> >> >> >>had driven me to the polling place on our way to a dinner that we
>> >>were
>> >> >> >>attending, and we didn't have more time to wait and see if the
>> >> >> >>voting
>> >> >> >>machine could be fixed, so I got a print ballot and my mom read 
>> >> >> >>it
>> >>for
>> >> >>me
>> >> >> >>(obviously, not a secret ballot). The poll workers were all very
>> >> >> >>nice
>> >> >>and
>> >> >> >>accommodating, and said that they had been trained on how to use
>>the
>> >> >> >>machine, but clearly there was a serious glitch either in their
>> >> >> >>training
>> >> >> >>or
>> >> >> >>in the performance of the machine itself. I did get the name and
>> >>phone
>> >> >> >>number of the man whom the poll worker called for help, so I will
>> >>call
>> >> >> >>tomorrow to find out why the machine didn't work and how this
>> >> >> >>problem
>> >> >>can
>> >> >> >>be
>> >> >> >>avoided in the future. Did anyone else have similar problems with
>> >> >> >>accessible
>> >> >> >>machines requiring a special registration card before you could
>>use
>> >> >>them?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Arielle
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >>From: "Allison" <Allison.Hilliker at asu.edu>
>> >> >> >>To: "Arizona Association of Blind Students List"
>> >> >> >><arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>> >> >> >>Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:10 PM
>> >> >> >>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > Hi Tony, Great!  Glad to hear you both voted!  Did you get to
>>use
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > accessible machines?  How'd that go for you?  Any troubles 
>> >> >> >> > with
>> >>it?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Allison
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > "Until the last drop of sun burns its sweet light
>> >> >> >> > Plenty revolutions left until we get this thing right."
>> >> >> >> > -- Emily Saliers
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >> > From: "Tony Sohl" <tonysohl at extremezone.com>
>> >> >> >> > To: "Arizona Association of Blind Students List"
>> >> >> >> > <arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>> >> >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:02 PM
>> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> Hi Allison, Melissa and I both voted.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >> Arizona-students mailing list
>> >> >> >> >> Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> > Arizona-students mailing list
>> >> >> >> > Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >>Arizona-students mailing list
>> >> >> >>Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
>> >> >> > Hi folks:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I too had to wait for the poll worker to figure out how to
>>activate
>> >>the
>> >> >> > voting machine. Since I was the first to use the machine in my
>> >>presinct
>> >> >> > she
>> >> >> > had to spend about twenty minutes figuring out how to get the
>>thing
>> >>up
>> >> >>and
>> >> >> > running. She too had to call someone but in my case that phone
>>call
>> >>did
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > trick. I vowed before going to the polls that, no matter how long
>>it
>> >> >>takes
>> >> >> > to get things working, I would exercise my "right" to vote in
>> >>private.
>> >> >>It
>> >> >> > took me about ten minutes to electronically vote. What a
>>liberating
>> >> >> > experience.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Let us not allow our long awaited right to vote in secrecy be
>>taken
>> >> >> > away
>> >> >> > through all the controversy of electronic voting.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Mark Feliz
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > Arizona-students mailing list
>> >> >> > Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>_______________________________________________
>> >> >>Arizona-students mailing list
>> >> >>Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
>> >> > Hello Darrell:
>> >> >
>> >> > include the blind population in among your list of those who had 
>> >> > lack
>> >> > of
>> >> > training. We as blind users of the accessible technology should have
>> >> > had
>> >>a
>> >> > general idea of how the system works in order to work as a team 
>> >> > along
>> >>with
>> >> > the election poll workers. We should have an understanding of the
>> >> > basics
>> >> > about the special ID card, that audio must be activated, if there is
>>a
>> >> > problem how to zip out of a ballot and call it spoiled, etc.
>> >> >
>> >> > You are certainly correct about little coverage by the media. 
>> >> > Saddly,
>>I
>> >> > made
>> >> > five direct contacts with the press who seemed to want to come out
>>and
>> >>do
>> >> > a
>> >> > story on accessible voting but each time the appointment was put off
>>by
>> >> > the
>> >> > press. Hmmmmmm? I believe it definitley has something to do with the
>> >> > powers
>> >> > to be wanting these machines kept low keyed. It is very unfortunate
>> >> > that
>> >> > blind citizens were not even given the opportunity to use the voting
>> >> > machines. That is a tragedy which is worthy of noting.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark Feliz
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Arizona-students mailing list
>> >> > Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>Arizona-students mailing list
>> >>Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
>> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Arizona-students mailing list
>> > Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Arizona-students mailing list
>>Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
>
>
>


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