[Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?

Fri Nov 10 21:57:34 CST 2006

Hello Darrell:

I am not sure that radical is the term to use in this case but okay, radical 
it is. So, as you claim, if you can be radical about issues of technology 
and transportation perhaps you can understand the need to dedicate the same 
enthusiasm and commitment to further the independence and equality of blind 
people?
Government will not dictate where I sit on a bus, government will not 
dictate whether I can or can not keep my cane with me on an airplane, 
government will not dictate when it is convenient to vote using an 
accessible machine.
Yes, it is *custodialism* if this is allowed to happen

By the way, how’s your mom doing? I can’t believe how many years have gone 
by since she and I lst spoke.
Mark Feliz

>From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i at speakeasy.net>
>Reply-To: Arizona Association of Blind Students 
>List<arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>To: "Arizona Association of Blind Students List" 
><arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:51:49 -0700
>
>Hello Mark,
>
>Wow.  I'm a little surprised.  I am most certainly *not* promoting any sort
>of custodialism.  I think extremism in either direction on some of the
>issues you have mentioned below is a terrible idea.  For instance, I feel
>the exit rows issue was taken a little too far by NFB.  We should insure we
>have full access to ride the airplane whether we choose to employ a cane or
>guide dog, but it is a little unreasonable to have blind people getting
>arrested for not moving from the exit row.  Sometimes, injection of some
>practicality can be helpful.  I think I feel similarly about riding the 
>bus.
>In fact, I would actually insist on riding in the front of the bus, so the
>driver doesn't forget about me, and I'm up front where the action is, ready
>to go and in the best position to pay attention and get off quickly if the
>driver doesn't announce the stops.
>
>As far as voting is concerned...  It is the government's responsibility to
>insure the voting process is accessible to all.  That responsibility has
>rightly been extended to people with disabilities.  As advocates, some of 
>us
>can and certainly should be involved with the process to help election
>officials at all levels appropriately insure voting accessibility.  For the
>typical blind person who votes, however, it is not and should not
>practically be the responsibility of that person to train the poll worker.
>The poll worker should either have some basic knowledge of how the machine
>is to be set up and used, or should promptly call an appropriate higher
>level official when that is not the case or there is an unforeseen issue.
>We certainly should *NEVER* be discouraged from casting a secret, 
>accessible
>ballot simply because the poll worker can't alone figure it out or just 
>does
>not want to do so.
>
>Federation philosophy is, by and large, positive and solid in most 
>respects,
>though I feel its implementation is sometimes on the "radical" side.  On 
>the
>other hand, I am "radical" on other issues, mainly dealing with technology
>and transportation issues that can impact our abilities to obtain and 
>retain
>employment.
>
>All of this is meant in good conversation, not to offend, etc.
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>A+, CSSA, Network+!
>Information should be accessible to us without need of translation by
>another person.
>Blind Access Journal blog and podcast: http://www.blindaccessjournal.com
>Sign the ProTools accessibility petition at http://protoolspetition.org
>today!
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "MARK FELIZ" <felizfamily5 at msn.com>
>To: <arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 7:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
>
>
> > Hello Darrell:
> >
> > One very important reason why it is necessary to maintain programs
> > utilized
> > by blind individuals such as with RSA. Is because the blind require 
>unique
> > alternative techniques to accomplish tasks. Competent blind person's 
>best
> > understand these unique alternative techniques. Who better to not only
> > teach
> > the general population but also change the general population's 
>attitudes
> > toward blindness than competent blind individuals.
> >
> > Yes, it is our obligation to know the ins and outs of accessible
> > voting-right now. Now, perhaps in a year or maybe a little more this wil
> > not
> > be the case. When a sighted person goes to vote he understands the
> > principle
> > and mechanics of taking the marker and drawing a line from one area of 
>the
> > ballot to the next in order to select a desired outcome.
> >
> > When a blind person goes to vote, what does the average American citizen
> > know about accessibility, about speech output, about pushing buttons to
> > scroll through lists, etc? For this second go-a-round with accessible
> > voting
> > the poll worker has been briefed on how to activate a machine that is
> > certainly foreign to him and then, perhaps the opportunity arises only
> > once
> > within that day to put that training to use.
> >
> > Yes, it is our responsibility as blind citizens to be in charge of whom 
>we
> > are, what we want, and how to get there. We should never stand by and 
>let
> > the world take care of us, tell us whether to sit or stand, perhaps the
> > best
> > way to hold the keypad, how fast or how slow to move through the promps,
> > and
> > worst of all we should never stand by and be told that accessible voting
> > will just take to long and it would be faster jus to have a poll worker
> > mark
> > our choice.
> >
> > Darrell, keep in mind the many blind people who refused to sit at the
> > front
> > of the bus so that you now have a choice of where to sit, keep in mind 
>of
> > the many blind people who chose to be arrested on an airplane rather 
>than
> > have their long cane taken from them and hidden away somewhere on the
> > plane.
> >
> > You must never forget these things. You must never allow custodialism to
> > prevail.
> >
> > Mark Feliz
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i at speakeasy.net>
> >>Reply-To: Arizona Association of Blind Students
> >>List<arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
> >>To: "Arizona Association of Blind Students List"
> >><arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
> >>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:01:22 -0700
> >>
> >>Hi Mark,
> >>
> >>Though I do agree it is wise for the blind citizen to have some prior
> >>knowledge of just how accessible voting will work in their jurisdiction,
> >>it
> >>is not their obligation, just as it is not the obligation of the sighted
> >>person to know the ins and outs of the system they will use for voting.
> >>This is clearly a case where it is the responsibility of election
> >>officials
> >>to insure the process is accessible.
> >>
> >>
> >>Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >>Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >>A+, CSSA, Network+!
> >>Information should be accessible to us without need of translation by
> >>another person.
> >>Blind Access Journal blog and podcast: http://www.blindaccessjournal.com
> >>Sign the ProTools accessibility petition at http://protoolspetition.org
> >>today!
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "MARK FELIZ" <felizfamily5 at msn.com>
> >>To: <arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
> >>Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 6:28 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i at speakeasy.net>
> >> >>Reply-To: Arizona Association of Blind Students
> >> >>List<arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
> >> >>To: "Arizona Association of Blind Students List"
> >> >><arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
> >> >>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
> >> >>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:09:53 -0700
> >> >>
> >> >>Hi Mark,
> >> >>
> >> >>Yes.  We must be extremely vigilant to insure our continued improving
> >> >>access
> >> >>in this area for sure.  There was almost zero coverage of accessible
> >> >>voting
> >> >>by the mainstream media on election day or the days immediately 
>before.
> >> >>
> >> >>I think many access problems were caused by a lack of proper complete
> >> >>training of election officials and poll workers.
> >> >>
> >> >>Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> >>Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >> >>A+, CSSA, Network+!
> >> >>Information should be accessible to us without need of translation by
> >> >>another person.
> >> >>Blind Access Journal blog and podcast:
> >> >>http://www.blindaccessjournal.com
> >> >>Sign the ProTools accessibility petition at 
>http://protoolspetition.org
> >> >>today!
> >> >>----- Original Message -----
> >> >>From: "MARK FELIZ" <felizfamily5 at msn.com>
> >> >>To: <arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
> >> >>Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:44 AM
> >> >>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>From: Arielle Silverman <hdsilverman at gmail.com>
> >> >> >>Reply-To: Arizona Association of Blind Students
> >> >> >>List<arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
> >> >> >>To: "Arizona Association of Blind Students List"
> >> >> >><arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
> >> >> >>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
> >> >> >>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 22:38:57 -0700
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Hi all,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>             I had an interesting problem when I tried to vote 
>using
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >>accessible voting machine. When I arrived at the polling place and
> >> >> >>asked
> >> >> >>if
> >> >> >>an accessible voting machine was available, the poll workers 
>happily
> >> >>told
> >> >> >>me
> >> >> >>that there was a machine and that I would be the first one to use
> >> >> >>it.
> >>I
> >> >> >>gave
> >> >> >>them my ID and was directed to the machine. However, I then had to
> >>wait
> >> >> >>while the poll workers conferred about how to turn the machine on.
> >> >> >>Apparently the machine needed to be activated by inserting a 
>special
> >> >>card
> >> >> >>that is linked to the voter's registration number. After I waited
> >> >> >>for
> >> >> >>about
> >> >> >>ten minutes, they tried inserting a card to activate the machine,
> >> >> >>but
> >> >>the
> >> >> >>card was rejected. The poll worker then called someone else for
> >> >> >>help,
> >> >>but
> >> >> >>they were unable to figure out how to program the activation card 
>so
> >> >>that
> >> >> >>the machine would accept it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>             Unfortunately, so that I would not have to miss 
>class,
> >>my
> >> >>mom
> >> >> >>had driven me to the polling place on our way to a dinner that we
> >>were
> >> >> >>attending, and we didn't have more time to wait and see if the
> >> >> >>voting
> >> >> >>machine could be fixed, so I got a print ballot and my mom read it
> >>for
> >> >>me
> >> >> >>(obviously, not a secret ballot). The poll workers were all very
> >> >> >>nice
> >> >>and
> >> >> >>accommodating, and said that they had been trained on how to use 
>the
> >> >> >>machine, but clearly there was a serious glitch either in their
> >> >> >>training
> >> >> >>or
> >> >> >>in the performance of the machine itself. I did get the name and
> >>phone
> >> >> >>number of the man whom the poll worker called for help, so I will
> >>call
> >> >> >>tomorrow to find out why the machine didn't work and how this
> >> >> >>problem
> >> >>can
> >> >> >>be
> >> >> >>avoided in the future. Did anyone else have similar problems with
> >> >> >>accessible
> >> >> >>machines requiring a special registration card before you could 
>use
> >> >>them?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Arielle
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >>From: "Allison" <Allison.Hilliker at asu.edu>
> >> >> >>To: "Arizona Association of Blind Students List"
> >> >> >><arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
> >> >> >>Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:10 PM
> >> >> >>Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Hi Tony, Great!  Glad to hear you both voted!  Did you get to 
>use
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > accessible machines?  How'd that go for you?  Any troubles with
> >>it?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Allison
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > "Until the last drop of sun burns its sweet light
> >> >> >> > Plenty revolutions left until we get this thing right."
> >> >> >> > -- Emily Saliers
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >> > From: "Tony Sohl" <tonysohl at extremezone.com>
> >> >> >> > To: "Arizona Association of Blind Students List"
> >> >> >> > <arizona-students at nfbnet.org>
> >> >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:02 PM
> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Arizona-students] Did anyone bvote?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> Hi Allison, Melissa and I both voted.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >> Arizona-students mailing list
> >> >> >> >> Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
> >> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> > Arizona-students mailing list
> >> >> >> > Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
> >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>_______________________________________________
> >> >> >>Arizona-students mailing list
> >> >> >>Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
> >> >> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
> >> >> > Hi folks:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I too had to wait for the poll worker to figure out how to 
>activate
> >>the
> >> >> > voting machine. Since I was the first to use the machine in my
> >>presinct
> >> >> > she
> >> >> > had to spend about twenty minutes figuring out how to get the 
>thing
> >>up
> >> >>and
> >> >> > running. She too had to call someone but in my case that phone 
>call
> >>did
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > trick. I vowed before going to the polls that, no matter how long 
>it
> >> >>takes
> >> >> > to get things working, I would exercise my "right" to vote in
> >>private.
> >> >>It
> >> >> > took me about ten minutes to electronically vote. What a 
>liberating
> >> >> > experience.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Let us not allow our long awaited right to vote in secrecy be 
>taken
> >> >> > away
> >> >> > through all the controversy of electronic voting.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Mark Feliz
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Arizona-students mailing list
> >> >> > Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>_______________________________________________
> >> >>Arizona-students mailing list
> >> >>Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
> >> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
> >> > Hello Darrell:
> >> >
> >> > include the blind population in among your list of those who had lack
> >> > of
> >> > training. We as blind users of the accessible technology should have
> >> > had
> >>a
> >> > general idea of how the system works in order to work as a team along
> >>with
> >> > the election poll workers. We should have an understanding of the
> >> > basics
> >> > about the special ID card, that audio must be activated, if there is 
>a
> >> > problem how to zip out of a ballot and call it spoiled, etc.
> >> >
> >> > You are certainly correct about little coverage by the media. Saddly, 
>I
> >> > made
> >> > five direct contacts with the press who seemed to want to come out 
>and
> >>do
> >> > a
> >> > story on accessible voting but each time the appointment was put off 
>by
> >> > the
> >> > press. Hmmmmmm? I believe it definitley has something to do with the
> >> > powers
> >> > to be wanting these machines kept low keyed. It is very unfortunate
> >> > that
> >> > blind citizens were not even given the opportunity to use the voting
> >> > machines. That is a tragedy which is worthy of noting.
> >> >
> >> > Mark Feliz
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Arizona-students mailing list
> >> > Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
> >> >
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Arizona-students mailing list
> >>Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Arizona-students mailing list
> > Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>Arizona-students mailing list
>Arizona-students at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/arizona-students